What you basically lose:
You miss 20% of the time with physical attacks.
You misfire 20% of the time with your spells.
What you basically get:
Physical attacks against you miss 50% of the time before rolling against AC.
You gain +2 to attack rolls against creatures who can't see invisible.
Single target spells against you fail 50% of the time before you get to save against them.
Area of Effect spells only deal half damage against you.
You only suffer half damage from falls.
You can move through solid objects, including other people (though at some small risk)
That would be a devastating trade off in a one-on-one scenario, but when fighting gobs of bad guys? My Greatsword fighter found a Ring of Blinking and he is NEVER taking it off.
You only receive half healing from channel energy. Any beneficial spell your comrades cast on you has a 50% chance to miss. If you blink all the time, you are quite likely to be hunted by denizens of the ethereal plane.
'Never taking it off' was hyperbole - figure only use it during combat, perhaps after pre-combat buffs. With all of those advantages, I'm not particularly worried about channelled healing.
Well then, enjoy your ring. Get yourself some ghost touch weapons and armour when you can, then no 20% miss on weapon attacks, and some extra defence against curious ethereal predators.
Yeah pretty much. If the dm is willing to throw random ethereal predators at you because you blink while in combat on a regular basis then he is going to get you anyway. Might as well relax.
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You are spending half your time on a plane of existence which, though sparsely populated, does have native creatures which are invisible and incorporeal, and generally pretty nasty.
@Mabven the Op healer. How long does combat in your game typically last? Its been a rare day when I've played that we've gone over twenty rounds.
Well then, enjoy your ring. Get yourself some ghost touch weapons and armour when you can, then no 20% miss on weapon attacks, and some extra defence against curious ethereal predators.
Ethereal isn't the same as incorporeal. Ghost touch doesn't make any difference for blink effects.
Well then, enjoy your ring. Get yourself some ghost touch weapons and armour when you can, then no 20% miss on weapon attacks, and some extra defence against curious ethereal predators.Ethereal isn't the same as incorporeal. Ghost touch doesn't make any difference for blink effects.
Ghost touch used to affect ethereal beings because in 3.5 creatures on ethereal plane plane were considered "invisible, incorporeal and utterly silent" to creatures on material plane.
Depending upon GMs decision it could be a case in Pathfinder too: blink description states that "An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down."
On the other hand ethereal jaunt replaces incorporeal with insubstantial when describing ethereal creatures.
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It can be very powerful, if your GM isn't prepared for it. If he or she is nice, they should let this work quite a bit at lower levels with only final battle times giving you a bit of trouble. As you hit mid to high level, you may find this becoming less effective. It's surprising how many creatures can see invisible creatures (particularly outsiders and intelligent undead), cutting your benefits.
Force effects remain a constant bane. The can still hit you as they normally would, and do full damage. You might want to invest in a Brooch of Shielding at some point. A small group of low level wizard types with magic missile wands could ruin your day.
Invisibility Purge will probably cause you difficulty as well, as it effectively allows ALL creatures to see invisible creatures within the radius. It's a third level cleric spell, and a good one for the party cleric to keep handy. Enemies who know your tactics might make sure they have this one ready.
Still, this is a 27,000gp item (half that to make). It's the same cost as a +3 weapon (with some extra left over) or +5 armor; nothing to sneeze at.
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Physical attacks against you miss 50% of the time before rolling against AC.
You gain +2 to attack rolls against creatures who can't see invisible.
Single target spells against you fail 50% of the time before you get to save against them.
Note that it makes absolutely no difference if you roll the miss chance before or after an attack roll or save.
I don't see blink as all that great. Displacement and mirror image are better for most people.
I think Blink is superior to Mirror Image for melee types.
Displacement is better but it's not nearly as versatile. Blink is the first spell Arcane Casters get that allows you to walk through a wall, I've cast it just for that.
Its not overly powerful, and can be aggravating to use until you get used to it.
Consider it's competitors.
Dispel Magic
Fly
Water Breathing
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It is not just you.
It is ridiculously overpowered.
Note that it makes absolutely no difference if you roll the miss chance before or after an attack roll or save.
Physical attacks against you miss 50% of the time before rolling against AC.
You gain +2 to attack rolls against creatures who can't see invisible.
Single target spells against you fail 50% of the time before you get to save against them.
Oh I get that, my point was that you get the benefit of both your AC/Saves AND the 50% fail chance, that you had a layered defense that compliments one another. Probably could have worded it better.
Well the ring is caster level 7 so you blink for seven rounds which means you spend one round of most combats turning blinking on so it's not that amazing.
I'm pretty sure that you can turn the blinking on and off at will with no limitations on duration, like with a ring of invisibility.
It can be very powerful, if your GM isn't prepared for it. If he or she is nice, they should let this work quite a bit at lower levels with only final battle times giving you a bit of trouble. As you hit mid to high level, you may find this becoming less effective. It's surprising how many creatures can see invisible creatures (particularly outsiders and intelligent undead), cutting your benefits.
Force effects remain a constant bane. The can still hit you as they normally would, and do full damage. You might want to invest in a Brooch of Shielding at some point. A small group of low level wizard types with magic missile wands could ruin your day.
Invisibility Purge will probably cause you difficulty as well, as it effectively allows ALL creatures to see invisible creatures within the radius. It's a third level cleric spell, and a good one for the party cleric to keep handy. Enemies who know your tactics might make sure they have this one ready.
Still, this is a 27,000gp item (half that to make). It's the same cost as a +3 weapon (with some extra left over) or +5 armor; nothing to sneeze at.
The ability to see Invisbility would only cause you to lose your +2 attack bonus which was just laginappe anyway as far as I'm concerned... it has no effect on the fact that half of your opponents attacks and spells fail from the get-go, nor does it stop you from being able to walk through walls or even foes. Obviously force effects would be effective against me, but I wasn't painting this as a ring of ultimate invulnerability, merely as an over-powered spell and a VERY over-powered magic item, especially for melee types.
Let's say that I'm holding the line against a couple of chimeras, each with a five attacks per round while their evil sorcerer master casts spells at me from afar... the ring is essentially nullifying half of the chimera's collective attacks right off the bat - in other words the monsters might as well just be skipping every other turn. Meanwhile, half of the the Sorcerer's spells targetting me automatically fail, meaning he's basically only casting every other round - and that doesn't count the +2 bonus to attack nor the inability of the chimera's to block me from moving past/through them to get at their master. Compare either Slow or Haste to that effect - they can't even replicate it together.
Like I said - crazy over-powered, especially as an 'at will' function like the ring gives you.
I don't see blink as all that great. Displacement and mirror image are better for most people.
Can't remember the last time I came across a 'Ring of Displacement and Mirror Image'...
It's powerful. Of course, in the situation you envision, giving the fighter something nice so he has a lot more endurance in combat isn't exactly that unbalancing. It reduces his dependence on wizard buffs and clerical healing (or can be expected to since those 50% chances may not go his way).
Ghost touch used to affect ethereal beings because in 3.5 creatures on ethereal plane plane were considered "invisible, incorporeal and utterly silent" to creatures on material plane.Well then, enjoy your ring. Get yourself some ghost touch weapons and armour when you can, then no 20% miss on weapon attacks, and some extra defence against curious ethereal predators.Ethereal isn't the same as incorporeal. Ghost touch doesn't make any difference for blink effects.
No, it didn't. That was a common mistake, but there are Rules of the Game and SKR quotes that make it clear that ghost touch weapons do not work on ethereal creatures in 3.5, and ethereal creatures aren't actually incorporeal (although that term is mistakenly applied to them on some occasions).
Ghost touch affects incorporeal creatures on the material plane; it doesn't bridge the gap between the material and ethereal planes.
Note that it makes absolutely no difference if you roll the miss chance before or after an attack roll or save.
Physical attacks against you miss 50% of the time before rolling against AC.
You gain +2 to attack rolls against creatures who can't see invisible.
Single target spells against you fail 50% of the time before you get to save against them.
If I roll the save first, I have to pick whether to use rerolls or not right away. Otherwise my reroll could be wasted if the blink miss chance negated it in the first place. If you have a reroll, you want your save absolutely last. PF has a lot more rerolls than 3.5
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Well the ring is caster level 7 so you blink for seven rounds which means you spend one round of most combats turning blinking on so it's not that amazing.I'm pretty sure that you can turn the blinking on and off at will with no limitations on duration, like with a ring of invisibility.
"On command, this ring makes the wearer blink, as the blink spell."
I know where you are coming from, but I'm not as sure.
Compare this to:
"This ring continually allows the wearer to leap about, providing a +5 competence bonus on all his Acrobatics checks made to make high or long jumps"
"This ring continually protects the wearer fr..."
"This gold ring allows the wearer to act as if continually under the effect ..."
"...It allows the wearer to continually utilize the effects of the spell water walk."
Meh.... I'm not a huge fan of the ring. If I am playing a martial character, usually the goal is to be able to do as much damage as possible as quickly as possible. A Ring of Blink is counter intuitive to that mindset. You use your first round of combat activating the ring rather than doing damage, and you take a 20% reduction on damage every round after that. This decrease in damage output might mean that dragon survives one extra round of combat than it would have otherwise. And while you may be able to take it on with your blink spell active, can the rest of the party afford one more round of combat? Maybe.
As far as defensive minded rings go, I like the Ring of Evasion and Ring of Freedom of Movement much better. Awesome defensive buffs with no drawbacks to worry about.
Blink is WAY overpowered. its like a reset button for your eyes. I mean.. vision is like a 3 minute effect... but if you keep blinking its almost eternal.
gotta love blink.
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On duration/usage, I read it as any amount of times per day, "on command" (standard action) but only 7 rounds duration each time (as the spell cast by a 7th level caster). So you have to spend 8 minutes an hour to activate it if you want to keep it constant.
I don't see blink as all that great. Displacement and mirror image are better for most people.Can't remember the last time I came across a 'Ring of Displacement and Mirror Image'...
Proves nothing. Maybe Blink is not worthy of being made into an item.
I never fully understood the interaction between ethereal and incorporeal when dealing with blink. The spell blink give us this line 'An ethereal creature is invisible, incorporeal, and capable of moving in any direction, even up or down. As an incorporeal creature, you can move through solid objects, including living creatures.' Isn't the incorporeal part redundant?
Blink is pretty good but overpowered, no.
Put me in with the good but not overpowered crowd.
What you basically lose:
You miss 20% of the time with physical attacks.
You misfire 20% of the time with your spells.
Not necessarily worth the benefit. Consider a party of four fighting, say, a stone golem.
Golem picks his target at random each round. 25% chance to be attacked.
You're cutting your attack output by 20% (100% to 80%) in order to reduce the golem's attacks against you by 12.5% (25% to 12.5%).
Offense is generally more worthwhile than defense, and in addition you're sacrificing more. Bad trade.
And this is with an unintelligent foe who cannot adjust his tactics. An intelligent enemy is perfectly capable of focusing fire on enemies who are not liable to blink away from it.
Let's compare Blink with Displacement.
They are both 3rd level spells with a duration of 1round/level.
They both give you a 50% miss chance.
Blink extended that miss chance to spells, makes falls and AoE's less painful and allow limited travel through solid space.
In return 20% of the things you do just don't work.
It's a great defensive buff but it severely cuts into your reliability and combat output. Personally I don't think it's worth it, but it's close.
Remember that increasing the randomness of the game (by adding things like a 20% miss chance for blink) make things worse for the party in the long run.
Lets assume you always have blink up (not really feasible with the short duration, even if you want to activate it over and over again combat may start with only a round or so remaining). Lets say your game is mechanically challenging (if not, then the effectiveness of tactics is largely irrelevant and we should likely be talking about the flavor of blink instead of the power level of its mechanics) and failing to act on the first 3 rounds of combat will likely cause at least one death.
With a 20% miss chance you will fail 3 times in a row 0.8% of the time. With ~13 encounters a level (1-[{1-.008}^13]) you have a ~9.9% of wiping the party. Is this worth the defensive upgrade from displacement? Not at all.
Let's compare Blink with Displacement.
They are both 3rd level spells with a duration of 1round/level.
They both give you a 50% miss chance.
Blink extended that miss chance to spells, makes falls and AoE's less painful and allow limited travel through solid space.
In return 20% of the things you do just don't work.
It's a great defensive buff but it severely cuts into your reliability and combat output. Personally I don't think it's worth it, but it's close.
Remember that increasing the randomness of the game (by adding things like a 20% miss chance for blink) make things worse for the party in the long run.
Lets assume you always have blink up (not really feasible with the short duration, even if you want to activate it over and over again combat may start with only a round or so remaining). Lets say your game is mechanically challenging (if not, then the effectiveness of tactics is largely irrelevant and we should likely be talking about the flavor of blink instead of the power level of its mechanics) and failing to act on the first 3 rounds of combat will likely cause at least one death.
With a 20% miss chance you will fail 3 times in a row 0.8% of the time. With ~13 encounters a level (1-[{1-.008}^13]) you have a ~9.9% of wiping the party. Is this worth the defensive upgrade from displacement? Not at all.
Interesting math. Note that if you're making multiple attacks a round, the odds of missing with all of them three rounds in a row plummets really fast.
I don't see blink as all that great. Displacement and mirror image are better for most people.
The main problem being that they stack with Blink. Which makes it ridiculously hard to hit the caster with any melee/ranged attacks.
Yes, 50% miss chance and concealment are not the same thing. And I have yet to find someone who can prove that Mirror Images don't blink/displace themselves with you.
Blink is banned in my games, because Displacement exists at the same spell level and the latter doesn't also give you a ton of ridiculous advantages.
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I'm pretty sure that, since 20% of that miss chance is actually concealment, that displacement simply would not stack with blink. If you had both spells going, the only noticeable effect would be that if the blink were dispelled, you would no longer have a 50% chance of not being affected by targeted spells, nor would you continue to take half damage from area spells.
As a combat buff it is good but not great. As has been said, I'd rather have Mirror Image up, which is a level lower.
As a way to 'cheat' and pass through walls, thereby bypassing entire dungeons, it's ridiculously overpowered.
I'm pretty sure that, since 20% of that miss chance is actually concealment, that displacement simply would not stack with blink. If you had both spells going, the only noticeable effect would be that if the blink were dispelled, you would no longer have a 50% chance of not being affected by targeted spells, nor would you continue to take half damage from area spells.
That is incorrect, you only have those 20% in the specific case that the creature striking you is capable of striking ethereal creatures. In any other case, attacks against you simply count as if your opponent had a 50% miss chance, which, I repeat, is different from concealment.
Here's the exact text from the spell as to the relevant situation you are alluding to:
If the attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures, the miss chance is only 20% (for concealment).
I'm pretty sure that, since 20% of that miss chance is actually concealment, that displacement simply would not stack with blink. If you had both spells going, the only noticeable effect would be that if the blink were dispelled, you would no longer have a 50% chance of not being affected by targeted spells, nor would you continue to take half damage from area spells.
Not sure what you're saying.
The 50% miss chance from displacement is because of concealment.The 50% miss chance from Blink is because you are ethereal.
The percentages don't stack, but the effects do. In other words you would have to roll that 50% miss chance twice. UNLESS that attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures.
For the record, I'm not comparing the spell Blink to other 3rd level spells as much as I'm comparing the magic item Ring of Blinking with anything else you can get for 27K - or twice that, really.
The spell is pretty good though.
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as i understand it displacement isn't actual concealment (like blur) but instead provides miss chance like concealment. it came up when someone was arguing that a cloak of displacement was effectively hide in plain sight (don't start. please.)
The percentages don't stack, but the effects do. In other words you would have to roll that 50% miss chance twice. UNLESS that attack is capable of striking ethereal creatures.
Just to clarify, that's what I meant when I said they stack... I didn't mean that you'd get a 100% miss chance.
I don't see blink as all that great. Displacement and mirror image are better for most people.The main problem being that they stack with Blink. Which makes it ridiculously hard to hit the caster with any melee/ranged attacks.
Yes, 50% miss chance and concealment are not the same thing. And I have yet to find someone who can prove that Mirror Images don't blink/displace themselves with you.
Blink is banned in my games, because Displacement exists at the same spell level and the latter doesn't also give you a ton of ridiculous advantages.
How do Blink and displacement stack?
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By the rules miss chances don't make you roll twice you take the highest one, and I don't see an exception to that rule in either spell.
PS:Ignore my last post. I will delete it. I will also look for the rule that says miss chances don't stack.
edit:I thought I fixed this but I did find my error. Concealments don't stack, but only one of those grants concealment so I was incorrect.
It's just you.