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Every year we have posts that toe the line with respect to the "no commenting on your own submission rule."
Every year we have to issue a warning to competitors to tone it down and not push the boundaries of what's an acceptable post (even if they're not trying to push them).
Every year we remind them about the FAQ and the suggested copy-and-paste statement.
Every year the judges discuss a prohibition against competitors commenting at all while voting is open.
And every year (so far) we've decided to issue a warning and remind competitors of potential disqualification.
Now here we are in 2012...
Competitors:
Tone it down.
Don't push the boundaries of what's an acceptable post.
Remember the FAQ.
The judges have had a discussion.
Consider this your warning. Remember that your comments can get you disqualified.
I understand your excitement. I understand it's weird to be on this side of the competition and not be able to participate in all the banter during the voting. But you have to deal with it--just like a freelancer has to deal with keeping quiet about the really cool but not-yet-announced book he or she just finished working on.
During the voting period, play it safe, and if you have to post something, use the suggested C&P quote. Once voting is closed, yammer all you want.
During the writing period, that's when you stop playing it safe. :)
(Now I'm going to remove some competitor posts that prompted this discussion.)
Thanks!
Well said, Sean.
And cementing your Simon role, too!
Ryan Dancey (Simon 2) would have said, simply: "Knock it off, this is your warning!" Short, succinct.
Paula (Neil) would have said "We love you all, you are all so great and I am so proud of all of you (and if you could please stop this stuff that would be great, too)." Wait, maybe I am actually Paula...
Randy would say, "Your comments are a bit pitchy, dog" and no one would have cared (but he would be right).
Ellen and Kara are irrelevant.
JLo would not have gotten "goosies" from the comments and would have said "what is going on in here, is everyone crazy?"
Steven, on his own planet, would have told you that you were all beautiful and if you were a female competitor he would have leered at you inappropriately. He likely is too busy reading the succubii entries to be paying attention.
But all kidding aside, the manner of the warning is not the issue.
Sean is right that we discuss this every year. We get it. It's exciting to be selected in Superstar. But commenting on the entries of your fellows comes real close to "tearing others down to build you up," and that really can be a problem.
So we don't want to quash the enthusiasm and fun, we just want to keep things fair.
That said, this has been the warning. And we have DQ'd in the past after such a warning. Word to the wise.
Some may ask, "why is this such a big deal?" Well, let me tell you why this is a concern from a publisher's standpoint (this is a quote from an actual insider in a prior judicial discussion from a few years ago about what to do about this kind of stuff): "If a person can't keep their mouths shut over an RPG contest despite repeated warnings, how could they be trusted to keep developmental or trade-secrets confidential if they were working in the industry?" That is a really big issue. In fact, freelancers are often working on things that haven't been made public yet. I've done it tons of times. And it just kills you because you are working on this super cool thing and can't say word one about it. You need freelancers you can trust to do that.
Ditto on what Sean and Clark have shared here.
I've been exactly where all of you are right now. I know the excitement and the enthusiasm. I get the nervous energy. I understand the worry and doubt that gnaws at you. And I realize there's a desire to stay engaged with the community and one another during this time. It's often a period where you feel absolutely helpless in the face of the judges' commentary, the voter's reactions, and all the comments that get laid down in your submission thread. And sometimes, you're used to chatting so freely in the RPG Superstar forums, because you used to do so as an observer in prior years...or, you've been so free to do so during Round 1 and the discussion of your wondrous items.
But once we get to the public voting rounds, you've got to disengage from that while the actual voting is going on. We don't want competitors swaying the voters through a discussion about their work (intentional or not), or talking the pressures of the contest in a bid for sympathy (intentional or not), or frankly just about anything else that could be interpreted as shoring up your position in the exit poll results. The temptation is simply too great to expound on your work. And, whether you intend to or not, you'll get drawn into suggesting the voters view something in a slightly different light that's more favorable toward you. And we don't want to see anyone gain an unfair advantage through that.
So, if you feel the need to engage with anyone, use the copy-and-paste text from the FAQ. Or take notes on the questions people ask and prepare your response/rebuttal, if you want. Just don't post it yet. Not until the voting is over. Clam up until then and keep all your personal insights and anxieties to yourself. Then, after the voting is over and you've disconnected from the pressures of whether you'll advance or not, you can fully consider whether you still want to post something about your prior work.
In the meantime, you should be practicing using the monster stat block. Note what parts are bold, what's italic, where there's a comma separator or a semicolon, where various UMR go, and so on.
The R3 rules will provide a basic monster stat block that you can fill in, but it won't have every possible choice pointed out for you--for example, if your monster has the blood drain ability, you'll need to look at the universal monster rules to see how blood drain is formatted and where it goes in the stat block.
Trust me, you want your crash-course in writing monster stat blocks to start NOW, not Feb 7 when the three-day submission period for R3 starts...
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At some point, all the gentle reminders and handholding are clearly being ignored or disregarded. Once people are disqualified for flagrantly ignoring the rules, then the next group will pay attention. Until then, it's all "I'm sorry" and "I didn't realize."
Suppose you hired a freelancer to write 2000 words on sahaguin with the instruction not to include anything about aquatic elves or aboleths, yet the turn in is 3500 words on how the aboleths turned aquatic elves into sahaguin. It's unlikely you'd work with that person again. Similarly, as Clark said, someone who can't keep their mouth shut shouldn't be trusted with secrets.
Can't follow rules, don't get work. Such a person is definitely not a Superstar.
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Really? Posting to try and get votes in the thread advising you to keep quiet and get to work?
Unless I'm missing some humorous tone not explicit in the text, all that does is very much make me NOT want to vote for you.
Despite the glaring flaws in my item design, I'd still very much love to be where the top 32 are, and every time I see post after post after post from a competitor all I can think is, "why aren't you using this time to work on your submission rather than beg for votes!?"
I'm voting for the well written and creative submissions. The kind of stuff I'd want to see in a module that I'd actually want to play. The desperate cries for votes are really only a distraction from the work itself, and since that's how I place my votes, you should probably stop distracting me!
Then again...I'm just one guy...
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
aka FaxCelestis
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Despite the glaring flaws in my item design, I'd still very much love to be where the top 32 are, and every time I see post after post after post from a competitor all I can think is, "why aren't you using this time to work on your submission rather than beg for votes!?"
We don't have anything to work on yet (beyond monster template familiarization). Round 3 rules won't be posted until 2/7.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Unless I'm missing some humorous tone not explicit in the text, all that does is very much make me NOT want to vote for you.
I believe he is making a joke. In a nutshell, about all entrants are permitted to say about the current round of the contest is thanking people for their feedback and encouraging them to vote for their entry.
Really? Posting to try and get votes in the thread advising you to keep quiet and get to work?
Unless I'm missing some humorous tone not explicit in the text, all that does is very much make me NOT want to vote for you.
Despite the glaring flaws in my item design, I'd still very much love to be where the top 32 are, and every time I see post after post after post from a competitor all I can think is, "why aren't you using this time to work on your submission rather than beg for votes!?"
I'm voting for the well written and creative submissions. The kind of stuff I'd want to see in a module that I'd actually want to play. The desperate cries for votes are really only a distraction from the work itself, and since that's how I place my votes, you should probably stop distracting me!
Then again...I'm just one guy...
Joke or not, I've got to agree with this. It's not the best time or place for a joke (and I have almost no sense when it comes to that, so if I get it....)
I had the same feeling about the top 32 commenting on the organizations that their competitors submitted. It may not be against the rules, and the comments may be generally (but not always) positive, but it rubs me the wrong way.
Pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of your competition while voting is going on just seems like it's in poor taste. If you really have something you need to say, why not at least wait until voting is over. Again, even if it's not against the rules, it's not going to endear me to the person(s) doing it.
I want to make sure my request for votes doesn't violate any contest rules, so I've posted a copy of it here in this thread. Since you haven't had that post taken down yet, am I correct in assuming that the text therein doesn't violate any contest rules?
Personally, I'd just recommend you stop posting until the voting is done. Anything further at this point is only going to call more attention to it. So, I don't think you necessarily improve things by continuing with it.
Even so, the other judges and the voters may feel otherwise. This is all part of the minefield you have to navigate when you're in this competition. And it's not all that different from when you're actually freelancing while under an NDA. If you violate an NDA in some manner, you don't make it better by trying to undo it with further discussion of it. You just stop talking.
At least, that's the lesson I've learned by putting my own foot in my mouth a time or two here on the boards. Jacobs has called many of us out on something now and then (and rightly so). It's hard lesson to learn. And even harder sometimes to apply. But it's an important one, nonetheless.
My two cents,
--Neil
Contributor
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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I've been following the judges' advice and keeping my mouth shut about the organizations and pretty much everything. However, something I read today made me want to spend a few minutes to share my thoughts about the importance of keeping mum.
It's already been established that it's a very good idea to say nothing, absolutely nothing about your own entry until voting closes. Clark also warned against reviewing other contestants' entries, and I've refrained from commenting because I prefer to err on the side of caution, but personally I really don't mind seeing other contestants say positive things and wish me good luck.
That said, I very much frown upon any comments whose sole purpose is to point out flaws (whether real or perceived) in other contestant's work, or to reinforce ideas that undermine the work of others.
Therefore, I propose a gentlemen's pact. Let's not try to steer the votes in any way, no matter how subtle.
May the best man win!
(*continues practicing the art of keeping mum*)
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
aka Jiggy
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I've been following the judges' advice and keeping my mouth shut about the organizations and pretty much everything. However, something I read today made me want to spend a few minutes to share my thoughts about the importance of keeping mum.
It's already been established that it's a very good idea to say nothing, absolutely nothing about your own entry until voting closes. Clark also warned against reviewing other contestants' entries, and I've refrained from commenting because I prefer to err on the side of caution, but personally I really don't mind seeing other contestants say positive things and wish me good luck.
That said, I very much frown upon any comments whose sole purpose is to point out flaws (whether real or perceived) in other contestant's work, or to reinforce ideas that undermine the work of others.
Therefore, I propose a gentlemen's pact. Let's not try to steer the votes in any way, no matter how subtle.
May the best man win!
(*continues practicing the art of keeping mum*)
Thank you for your support and please vote for my item! If you have questions, I'll be happy to answer them once voting for this round is closed.
Contestant's comments one way or the other aren't going to sway my vote. In the end, I don't have to work with you, so if you're annoying, I don't really care. I just care if your product is cool.
If I were in your position I'd be memorizing every aspect of Golarion possible and working to out-cool myself on my monsters, but if you don't want to do that, it's totally your choice. I'll vote based on the product.
However, not everyone is like me. A certain percentage of the voters will be turned off by self-boosterism, and a larger percentage will be turned off by a contestant criticizing the work of another contestant. Again, your call, but it doesn't seem wise to throw away any votes if you don't have to.
The other thing to keep very much in mind- only the winner has a guaranteed project at the end. But at the discretion of Paizo and others watching this contest, other top finishers may find freelance work. Those people *will* care if you're annoying. They have to work with you. So, again, if it were me, I'd try not to annoy them.
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If I were in your position I'd be memorizing every aspect of Golarion possible and working to out-cool myself on my monsters, but if you don't want to do that, it's totally your choice...
...A certain percentage of the voters will be turned off by self-boosterism, and a larger percentage will be turned off by a contestant criticizing the work of another contestant. Again, your call, but it doesn't seem wise to throw away any votes if you don't have to...
...at the discretion of Paizo and others watching this contest, other top finishers may find freelance work. Those people *will* care if you're annoying. They have to work with you. So, again, if it were me, I'd try not to annoy them.
+1 to the points quoted above from Clouds Without Water's post.
I posted the criteria I used for voting this round in the Exit Poll thread, and part of that is what posts I see from certain contestants. I give everyone a fair assessment of their organization and item first, and then if I see something that really rubs me the wrong way I look back at that competitor's submissions to see if I've voted for them. If I have and things aren't too weird (I understand nervousness) I keep that vote.
FWIW, I haven't changed one vote since I started voting because, for some reason, the competitors who are posting certain things I find off-putting also didn't have submissions that I would vote for in the first place.
Just wanted to share my experience on this issue so far this round. I'm really not as judgmental or anal-retentive as my posts may come across as, and all of this is only my opinion, so hopefully no one takes offense to any of this as none is intended.
Good luck to all of the competitors. It's been a great Superstar so far, and I've had a lot of fun participating even on the "outside" of things.
Even though I didn't advance, I just wanted to say thanks to the judges for not disqualifying me.
Thank you!
And thanks again for all your valuable feedback, your time, and your attention. I really do appreciate it.