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MDT, Aleron-- thank you for bringing up those points.
Mikaze-- and once more, my apologies, after I've had more of a chance to see how some of these things read, once I've taken a few breaths. Your point that even those within a fandom often mean different things with the same word is true.
If I could go back and edit my first post, I'd do a better job of separating any comments at you and Blastoguy from the comments aimed at the third poster referenced. While I questioned your and Blastoguy's use of a term, your posts weren't attacks or insults, and I shouldn't have sent something out there that looked like an attack at the two of you. If I could go back and edit the second one-- while I'd still want to make the point that there's more to what looks 'furry' (IMO) than football mascots-- I think I was still seriously irritated by the other poster, so the tone is harsher than I should have used for what should not have been an accusatory, attacking, or confrontational post.
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Catfolk are canon for Golarion....
Just so you know, Unless it appears in a book about the campaign setting and NOT a bestiary such as the Bestiary 3, it is most certainly NOT canon! :)
Bestiary appearances are just that. It takes an actual appearance in a book about Golarion itself to make it canon.
Blastoguy I think I am reading your fear more about people relying too much on stereo types of race or the "wrong" stereo types when playing.
I have found that as GM you have a great deal of power over on rp idiosycracies. My first DND character was a bard. I had a very different view of bard's from my DM. He occaisionally warned me OOC about things I was afterall new to the game, but far more often he had NPC's react to me. In some cases very negatively though not violently. I think he tried to have every character action effect NPC's. A sarcastic remark drew more than just a snappy comeback. He would make them a tougher negoiator on price, stop service, start gossip about the PC's. After our characters started making money I wanted new armor. The leatherworker in town made me a nice suit of black leather armor with a green snake running down one arm ending in the glove. Everyone in town started treating me very rudely some would not sell to me. Finally one NPC made it clear that such a brazzen assassin was not welcome in town. I quickly went out and got a new green cloak and a few other accessories to "dress up" my gear. Things changed and people treated me different.
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Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Personally I don't really care for them because there isn't really a mythology or fiction to draw from. They are humanoids with cat features and thats it. Now if you say "I'm using a race of cat-like people based off of the Kilrathi from Wing Commander" or right up a good cultural background for an original idea, I've got no problems.
As an aside, this thread really suffers from X Player Type = Equals Y Character. It really reminds me of a story my friends told me of a gaming group they tried when they were out in Colorado. They are a married couple who went one time to this group, both have gamed for years, but when the wife rolled a d12 instead of a d20 by accident the group started in on the equivelent of "Girls don't know what dice to roll". They never went back. Personally I've rolled d12s thinking I had a d20 hundreds of times myself.
Personally I'd say give your player a chance and if the character becomes disruptive, then you talk to the player.
Well this topic devolved quickly.
But hey, beats the Paladin alignment threads of late...
Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?
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Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
You're a grown man pretending to be an elf chick who can shoot fireballs from their finger tips. I think we left any desire to be taken seriously back 12 dungeons ago.
We are currently playing a gurps game, based around the fall of rome. I'm not sure if this could help you at all, but its how we ended up doing the cat-man race.
First.. Races..
Romans - Humans
Vikings - Dwarves
Germanic - Casidae (dog like race.)
Mongolians - Centaurs
Chinesish - Elves (cause we aren't quite sure where they are in real world)
Egyptians - Catfolk.
Greeks - Trolls.
(More races may or may not show up)
For us, the Catfolk race is based on Egyptians, most have some sort of facial markings like you would see in Egyptian art. Mine for example, has that golden eye makeup.
Generally, they break down into 3 groups. They hyperactive daredevil type, The proud noble type, and then the lazy sleepy type. Currently in our game we only have two of the hyperactive types, one is currently inactive though.
so if you want culture, you could do what we did and say they are like Egyptians.
There are other pictures of catfolk other than just the bestiary. I do not have B3 yet so I do not know where your coming from but there are some great feline catfolk art out there that look awesome.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/stf/10
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Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
Dunno, that's about the same level as playing an orange-haired male gnome weirdo named Thombottle Wumpersnicklebot who has a penchant for collecting fragments of large intestines cut out from fallen enemies. Which I have no problem with, so...
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Catfolk are canon for Golarion....Just so you know, Unless it appears in a book about the campaign setting and NOT a bestiary such as the Bestiary 3, it is most certainly NOT canon! :)
Bestiary appearances are just that. It takes an actual appearance in a book about Golarion itself to make it canon.
Well just as well that they are mentioned (albeit very briefly) In the dragon empires book.
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Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
I'll have you know I'm having much fun with Puss in Boots.
As far as the internet is concerned, furry = porn. I have never been able to look up catfolk, ratfolk, or any other kind of furry folk without being directed towards nude art or outright pornography. Makes finding decent character portraits extremely frustrating.
Don't blame individual posters here for spreading stereotypes. They're simply trying to give advice, not start a flame war. Blame the internet. It's much less destructive to the discussion.
You're a grown man pretending to be an elf chick who can shoot fireballs from their finger tips. I think we left any desire to be taken seriously back 12 dungeons ago.Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
While I have lots of female characters in WoW ( which shows how little RP factor that game has ), I never tried to play a female in a pen & paper game. I know my limits. ^^
Dunno, that's about the same level as playing an orange-haired male gnome weirdo named Thombottle Wumpersnicklebot who has a penchant for collecting fragments of large intestines cut out from fallen enemies. Which I have no problem with, so...
Eh, I don't see it as the same, but perceptions obviously differ. :p
There are two kinds of games out there.
Games that do not have cat-people, and games that do.
I find it disappointing that Pathfinder has gone from the former to the latter, but there's no point in crying over spilled milk. Just let the catfolk characters lick it up...
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean Pathfinder shouldn't have it. You can ban whatever you want at your table, and shouldn't use every option available in an official rulebook. Should we not have gun rules because many don't like and don't use them?
As far as the internet is concerned, furry = porn. I have never been able to look up catfolk, ratfolk, or any other kind of furry folk without being directed towards nude art or outright pornography. Makes finding decent character portraits extremely frustrating.
Don't blame individual posters here for spreading stereotypes. They're simply trying to give advice, not start a flame war. Blame the internet. It's much less destructive to the discussion.
Deviantart and in particular this author, has images of animal people that you can use.
Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?
Why not? My first character in 3.0 was a female rogue halfling. A character who is a different species, sex, and less than half as tall as I am in RL, that killed monsters, dodged fireballs, and generally did things no one could do in our everyday world. She did not steal from the rest of the party and probably would have slit the throats of any Kender she met. Trust me she was taken seriously by the rest of the players, just as one of our female players is even though she always plays male characters.
So yes I would play a catfolk, male or female. As long as I get to decide what my character does rather than BS pushed on me like "your character licks itself" or "your dwarf has to have a beard", I don't care.
Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Why not? My first character in 3.0 was a female rogue halfling. A character who is a different species, sex, and less than half as tall as I am in RL, that killed monsters, dodged fireballs, and generally did things no one could do in our everyday world. She did not steal from the rest of the party and probably would have slit the throats of any Kender she met. Trust me she was taken seriously by the rest of the players, just as one of our female players is even though she always plays male characters.
So yes I would play a catfolk, male or female. As long as I get to decide what my character does rather than BS pushed on me like "your character licks itself" or "your dwarf has to have a beard", I don't care.
Hm, yeah. My phrasing was actually more meant to go with the picture in the Bestiary than the fact that males may want to play female characters.
Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
Funny I'm a straight male and I have a Catfolk rogue, I even enjoy playing him. I have also played a Vanara Gunslinger, and a Gnome Wolfshifter.
Creative Director
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Catfolk are indeed officially on Golarion—they live primarily in southern Garund though.
Allowing your players to play the characters they want is important, but that's a two-way street. The PLAYERS have to respect what kind of game the GM wants to run as well.
For example, I'm not a fan of summoners. While they're a part of Golarion, games I run set in Golarion generally don't allow summoners. I did allow a player to play one, though (as it worked out, that just reinforced my dislike of the class... mostly for aesthetic reasons, not for rules reasons).
If you're the GM, you know more about the game you want to run than the players, and the players need to respect that when you say things like "nope; no catfolk in this game." That said... it's the sign of a good GM who lets players play things he's nervous about or doesn't think will add to the game!
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Creative Director
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Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :p
I can. I can imagine being that player, in fact, and being taken seriously by the other players.
Gaming is a big enough world for all of us, and it gets boring and annoying when folks forget that.
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I've never been taken seriously.
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I have played many catfolk characters over the years from Red Box D&D to the tail end of 3.5. My favorite was a lascivious catfolk bard in a Spelljammer campaign. The DM asked me to stop trying to sleep with all of the npcs and I replied:
"In the tradition of the Honorable Captain James Tiberius Kirk it is my moral imperative to seduce any and all willing females that I meet provided they have the necessary plumbing to do the deed."
The whole time he thought "Tiber" was a bad play on "tiger"...
My most recent was a Triani smuggler in a Star Wars SAGA game.
I've always loved cats and I have fun trying to play their attitude as a character. When I was in elementary school waaaaaaaay back in the 80s the teacher read "Puss in Boots" to us. Needless to say, that was who I was playing on the playground until everyone saw Star Wars and then I became Han Solo.
"The Secret of N.I.H.M." cartoon makes me want to play a ratfolk character but I've never seen the race done properly.
"The Velveteen Rabbit" doesn't make me want to play a bunny but "Watership Down" sure as hell does.
The point is to not judge your players for their character choices but to work with them to make the character they WANT to play that has a role in the party. I've had more trouble with dwarves who were either too drunk all the time or just complete jerks, elves who wanted to run free in the wilds in a city based game or sanctimonious paladins. Those tired-to-the-point-of-exhaustion cliches are part and parcel of the "Traditional Core Game" and they make me cry a little inside.
It's your game and you can allow or disallow anything you like but I've found that by working with players to build their characters I lessen my workload by building in plot hooks that I can use.
Of course, YMMV.
SM
Finn K's little tirade reminded me why I don't allow "animal head, human body, no lore" races. Told my player after further consideration the answer was no, absolutely not, and as always the policy re: races is "core and dragon empires only."
It seems odd that you're letting someone not involved in your game influence your decision instead of your actual player, but it's your game. Try to have a bit more trust for them though.
PS: check out the Mouseguard RPG, its a good system.
Really? Can you imagine playing a male character who looks remotely like that catgirl in the Bestiary? And be taken seriously by the other players?Thank you for giving me a reason to actually want to play a Catfolk character.
Well, it made me say "There's no way that any straight man, ever, will play this race." :pI can. I can imagine being that player, in fact, and being taken seriously by the other players.
Gaming is a big enough world for all of us, and it gets boring and annoying when folks forget that.
Well, the artwork surely does not help in selling the race to the average male guy. IMO, of course.
Reepicheep!
If you can immagine a ratfolk campaign not possibly running into problems I find it hard to believe you have the lack of immagination that catfolk can only cause problems. Especially when you point out that you find dwarves played in a certain way bad or halflings played in a certain way bad.
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Finn K's little tirade reminded me why I don't allow "animal head, human body, no lore" races. Told my player after further consideration the answer was no, absolutely not, and as always the policy re: races is "core and dragon empires only."
So wait a Catfolk is not okay but a Fox person, a bird person (both wou unlike the catfolk literally are animal headed races) but a catfolk is a no-no. I mean at the end of the day it is your choice but it seems somewhat erratic to me.
Ps as James pointed out up thread Catfolk are in Golarion lore there just is not a lot of it yet.
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Hopefully some creative director will find time to flesh out the lore and role of catfolk in Golarion.
Problem is, till then, they're just another animalheaded human that's been sooooo overdone in the fantasy corpus. Watership Down and N.I.M.H. are excellent examples of how anthropomorhics SHOULD be done. We don't need to know about their physical attributes.. we already knew everything about them physically just from their name. The page of text in the B3 was basically a waste. More than enough to describe what a Catfolk is. Nowhere near enough to explain how they're more than the zillionth iteration of cat-people-things.
Till then, the thread title sums up my reaction precisely. It's the same one as meeting a halfling cavalier. Ugh.
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StuffYeah see, more of what I don't want at my table.
(P.S. For "ratfolk done right" read Mouse Guard and Redwall. Thinking of doing an all ratfolk campaign now.)
Would any of that have been a problem if it was a lascivious half-elf? Elf? Halfling?
Thanks for the ratfolk suggestions. I will check them out.
SM
Personally, I like catfolk. What I'm annoyed at though is the ever-increasing number of roguish characters. Other than the nagaji and the grippli, the furry races are all roguish. Makes me wan bearfolk or eaglefolk (NOT STRIX friggin winged charcoal voldemorts.)
Finn K's little tirade reminded me why I don't allow "animal head, human body, no lore" races. Told my player after further consideration the answer was no, absolutely not, and as always the policy re: races is "core and dragon empires only."So wait a Catfolk is not okay but a Fox person, a bird person (both wou unlike the catfolk literally are animal headed races) but a catfolk is a no-no. I mean at the end of the day it is your choice but it seems somewhat erratic to meKitsune and Tengu have more lore/weight in the setting that "cat head, human body, *lick* :3 "
Besides, I've held to my policy of "if it ain't core/Dragon Empires, then no" for awhile, I'm not gonna break now because the moment I do is when people start asking to play half-dragons again.
lol! Races of Dragon! damn I hated that book.
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Finn K's little tirade reminded me why I don't allow "animal head, human body, no lore" races. Told my player after further consideration the answer was no, absolutely not, and as always the policy re: races is "core and dragon empires only."So wait a Catfolk is not okay but a Fox person, a bird person (both wou unlike the catfolk literally are animal headed races) but a catfolk is a no-no. I mean at the end of the day it is your choice but it seems somewhat erratic to meKitsune and Tengu have more lore/weight in the setting that "cat head, human body, *lick* :3 "
Besides, I've held to my policy of "if it ain't core/Dragon Empires, then no" for awhile, I'm not gonna break now because the moment I do is when people start asking to play half-dragons again.
Fair enough however I do feel it is your loss
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Kitsune and Tengu have more lore/weight in the setting that "cat head, human body, *lick* :3 "Besides, I've held to my policy of "if it ain't core/Dragon Empires, then no" for awhile, I'm not gonna break now because the moment I do is when people start asking to play half-dragons again.
I feel ya on the Tengu and Kitsune... there's plenty of eastern myth and lore that they're based on to draw upon even if paizo's stuff isn't as deep.
I do gotta snipe a bit tho.. what about those snakeheaded humans :D
Finn K's little tirade reminded me why I don't allow "animal head, human body, no lore" races. Told my player after further consideration the answer was no, absolutely not, and as always the policy re: races is "core and dragon empires only."So wait a Catfolk is not okay but a Fox person, a bird person (both wou unlike the catfolk literally are animal headed races) but a catfolk is a no-no. I mean at the end of the day it is your choice but it seems somewhat erratic to meKitsune and Tengu have more lore/weight in the setting that "cat head, human body, *lick* :3 "
Besides, I've held to my policy of "if it ain't core/Dragon Empires, then no" for awhile, I'm not gonna break now because the moment I do is when people start asking to play half-dragons again.
if your player has said they aren't going to act in such a manner that you find repulsive, then why still bar them? Seems silly and admittedly unfair to them if they've agreed to have a more fleshed out background.
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Kitsune and Tengu have more lore/weight in the setting that "cat head, human body, *lick* :3 "Besides, I've held to my policy of "if it ain't core/Dragon Empires, then no" for awhile, I'm not gonna break now because the moment I do is when people start asking to play half-dragons again.
I feel ya on the Tengu and Kitsune... there's plenty of eastern myth and lore that they're based on to draw upon even if paizo's stuff isn't as deep.
I do gotta snipe a bit tho.. what about those snakeheaded humans :D
See it's a fine line, Nagaji aren't so much snakeheaded humans, they're humanoids with vaguely serpentine features, and there's more to them than "snaaaaake people, snaaaaaaaaaaaaaake people, look like snake, talk like people." They have lore, they have a purpose and a role in the setting. Same with Kitsune and Tengu.
Catfolk? They're literally just people that look like cats. Their NAME is catfolk; is that really what they call themselves? See that's what bothers me.
Is that really any worse that three core races whose names are Half-elf, Half-orc and Halfling?