Problem player: the one who hates losing


Advice

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There's this guy I've been playing with for about eight years. He's a nice guy, but he hates losing, whatever the game is. To be honest, his roleplaying isn't very impressive either, but he's a fun person to have around and he can often contribute well to a gaming table. Still, he hates losing.

He hates losing so much, it affects his actions in the game. All the time. I just realised once more how much it could kill everyone's fun and I'm asking you for advice on how to take care of this problem, because he can sometimes ruin everyone's fun, especially his own.

So there it is : this guy plays just about anything, but every single character he plays suddenly becomes agressive. And remember, he hates losing. Here are a few examples :

1. My players are trapped somewhere, surrounded by an army of mages, soldiers and knights. The problem player will do ANYTHING to try and escape and he will actually get angry OOC because he failed to escape, defeat or outwit an entire army by himself while his halfling rogue is level 5. Everytime his character gets defeated, caught, slain or even when his plans fail, as dire as the situation could be, he'll be pissed in and out of the game. He'll actually start being mean to the other players and me (GM) because his character or the dice failed, even if what he tried to do was completely desperate and stupid. I remember him being angry after charging alone towards four enemies at once at beginner-level and being defeated in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, after being warned several times that in this game, two enemies could easily take you down.

2. When he's pissed, he becomes mean and his only desire is now to take revenge in game. That's right : he'll do anything to kill the NPC (or PC!) who defeated him or made him fail. Of course, he'll always be playing agressive characters (or characters of good alignments that become suddenly agressive) that care little for the lives of those who offend him. Basically, this means any NPC or PC who gets in his way gets killed sooner or later, or kills him, which will make him even more pissed OOC.

I can't force him to play a character he doesn't want to play. I can't tell him "you can't do that" just because I don't want him to. Still, he's always the one going out of the party's way, slowing the whole game down, just to get his silly revenge because the game is pissing him off, sometimes killing other PCs who get in his way.

The worst of all : when we tell him to calm down, he says "Well I hate losing! What can I do about it?" And when we tell him "You're only doing this because you're pissed at the game", he says "No, it's my roleplay, my character would totally do it!"

Sadly, there's nothing I can say against these two points. Or is there? I hope you guys can help me, because this guy's anger at the game sometimes ruins it for other people.


Tell him to seek therapy.

This is beyond GM advice. This is a person who has a serious issue with anger and frustration.

It sounds like you've already tried to be reasonable and explain things to him.

Life is too short to let people like that drag you down. Tell him if he can't stop acting like a bratty two year old that he can find another group to play with.

Then stick to it.


This guy has no anger management problems outside of gaming. He only becomes angry when he loses, and then it's nothing serious. Still, in a tabletop RPG, he'll just pretend not being angry (even to himself, it seems) and start killing PCs and NPCs because "my character would do it". Do you really think he needs therapy?

Seriously, I think I'd rather not invite him to my game table than telling him to seek therapy. He'd only need it for gaming.


well assuming this person is a friend you may want to try a different kind of game for a while. It might be a little more shallow from the role playing perspective without the heavy adversity of situations where the party has to fail, but maybe a story arc with a few straight forward goals that are readily accomplished will reduce some of the tension with this player.

Sovereign Court

Really how close are you?

you've played with him for 8 years, but is it only a DnD thing?

if you are close enough as a group diffuse the situation by making light of his death, capture etc...ignore his temper...and poke some light hearted fun at him...ONLY IF YOU ARE CLOSE ENOUGH...this will probably not come off well if you only see him @ DnD and are not all that friendly otherwise.

OR

when it happens and he gets his pants in a knot get the group to just full out tell him to chill. If he tries to kill PCs get him to sit out for a while. the rest of the session at the very least. Hopefully he will cool down on the agression at the very least and just play a party helping PC..

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Explain to him, how his actions are causing the game to be less fun for everyone. Explain how the game is not about winning, but about a story/adventure and even the best hero's have set backs they eventually overcome later.

if none of that work, likely you will have to dump him. Back in HS the group i was in had a guy sorta like that. He just refused to change, eventually we stopped inviting him.


I have totally been there. I know how hard it can be when you have a good friend that has some issues with anything at the table. My first thought is to look into some games that reward failure. Or make the failure interesting.

A game I love is called houses of the blooded by John Wick. A lot of the game is about making the story more interesting, for the players, often by making the lives of the characters hell. Think of TV shows like Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad, Supernatural, Archer, Venture Bros, or BSG. The show is at its best when the characters have been beat up, and lost things and are so far down in the mud you have no idea how they can get out of it. That makes an interesting story. Of course for a roleplaying game it makes the story even better when the PCs have been beat up so badly and still manage a win. A flawless win is far less interesting than a win you EARNED. Just re watch Die Hard to see what I mean. Talk to your player. See if you can get him interested in the idea of making a better story through failure. Ask him to trust you, beat him up a little bit, and then let him do something cooler than normal. Really stress to the whole party how they stumble out of mine, battered and bruised, but alive, and with all the captives freed. The more he puts his character at risk the more he is rewarded.

Another game I love is Burning Wheel by Luke Crane. In Burning Wheel you are really pushed to only roll for something when it matters. And even then only roll if failure would be interesting. Lets say your player is trying to pick a lock. Ask him what his full intent is. Lets say it is to pick the lock before the guards arrive. That's great, now have him roll. If he succeeds he gets what he wants. If he fails. He gets to pick the lock, getting past the obstacle, but the guards are on the other side of the door. He got some of what he wanted. For this player make the successes and failures less binary. Make the more interesting. He failed his diplomacy roll to gather info to find his kidnapped sister? He failed because he found a guy who refuses to give him any info. Now he has somewhere to go.

Really I think you need to talk to your player. Find out what kind of successes he wants most. And what failures he is most ok with.


If you can think of a tactful way to say "Just because you hate to lose it doesn't mean your dumb-as-a-brick strategy will work any better," then that could be a starting point.

There is the technique of repeating his argument back at him.

"So, Captain Ahab, what your saying is that you lost your leg when you you rowed out in a tiny boat to stab a colossal whale with a bit of sharp iron. And that rather than acnowledge that the whale is a dumb animal perfectly content to mind its own buisiness until you stab it, the only course of action is to throw away your entire livelyhood to get a chance to row out in another little boat with another bit of iron and stab at it AGAIN. Only now you are already missing one leg, and the whale niether knows nor cares what you do as long as you DON'T DO EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING?!?"

Ahab the PC: "Its what my character would do."


We were friends since we were five years old. We're eighteen now. That's how close we are. We argue every once in a while, though. I'm that guy with high intelligence and low wisdom, while he's the guy with low intelligence and high wisdom. We sometimes end up having a few differences, but we never really get angry at each other.

I'll try to follow your tips. I know I've tried them a few times in the past, but I guess I'll go ahead and try again. The problem is, when he's pissed, he won't listen to anything we say. And when he's not, there's no problem at all and it won't even change anything if we talk about it now, since when he'll get pissed, he'll forget about it.

@Kolokotroni : Not sure I understand the kind of game you're recommending.

@OilHorse : I tried that a few times, but if we tell him to chill out or take a break when he's trying to kill an important NPC or PC, he'll either understand we're taking a break to let him calm down and take it personally, or he'll just stick to killing that same PC or NPC because he's now persuaded that it's what his character would do.

@Dark_Mistress : I guess that's what I need to try. If this doesn't work, I think nothing will.

@glawdat : Reading Burning Wheel since a little while. Not sure my players will love it, though. They really like the gameplay aspects of Pathfinder and I don't think they'll have as much fun with a system that emphasizes on the story. They didn't love or hate MouseGuard, which is based on the same system. Still, I'm gonna try it eventually.

@Brambleman : Not sure repeating his argument back at him will work, but I can always give it a shot.

Thanks for all your tips! If anyone has more, I'll gladly accept them.


That's too bad. At the end of the day group having fun > any one player. If just only one player is causing most of the problems you can only be expected to go so far before asking them nicely to leave the game for everyone else fun is the only option.

Out of curiosity, has this player ever run games before?


Yes, he has run games before. His campaigns usually last about two or three sessions. I'll always remember how he once officially ended one of his campaigns in the middle of a quest because he accused me of trying to sabotage his game (and all I did was asking a question to an NPC and the GM didn't know the answer). But that seriously happened only once, and he ran a good amount of games, yes. We were teenagers back then, so we all acted like a bunch of idiots anyway.

The reason why his campaigns only last two or three game sessions is usually because the players lose interest in them. His games are entertaining, but never great, and the other players usually prefer my campaigns, which is why I've been GMing for eight years straight while begging my players to replace me every once in a while. Sometimes, I just want to play Pathfinder without having to take on the whole GM duty, just being one single character for a while. The problem player is the only one who actually tries, and I'm thankful for this.


I don't know how he'll take it, but set up an encounter where his reckless actions really will burn him. i.e. let him go nuts and kill the NPC, then find out after that, that NPC had information that he had to have to complete a quest. Set it up so them mission/quest fails out right because of it. Have his actions (going nuts) cause great embarrassment to the noble family or group that has hired the PC's for the given quest and they then have to cut them loose, or worse, banished from the country/town/whatever.

Do this a couple of times and maybe he'll quit the group or maybe he'll figure out he needs to learn t temper his actions.

Oh, and I hate to say this but hating to loose is one thing, not being able to deal with it is an anger management issue. Just because it's only manifest in your gaming group to you, doesn't mean it hasn't or won't do ti somewhere else. If it's as prevalent as you say, he does need some professional help.


We've all had players like that.

Its really a case of 'their problem' and I tend to just 'Rule 0' them when they start playing up.

Frankly I find it humourous when they confuse the 'game' for a 'contact sport'.

I had one player kept insisting on running off alone to loot the treasure while the PC's were often still locked in battle, always coming up with some odd reason (and they let it slide). A few times this actually meant that some recurring baddies got away, and his activities were noted. So then this one ambush the baddies set a trap based on their knowledge of how the party was engaging them - that player got lured off to the 'treasure' and was easily killed.

The player chucked a tanty and quit, citing the trap as 'mean and arbitrary and no way the bad guys would have known' - which was correct in the first, it was mean, but hey they were a guild of Assassins.

Anyhow, no great loss, and we still Lulz about it years after.


@Obvious_Ninja : My entire campaign had my players face this kind of consequences. The problem player once had the entire party beaten up for his sole actions, yet he didn't care and kept going until the other party members turned against him, preventing him from causing more harm. My players have done so many awful things (some against their will) that they've been tortured, exiled from a kingdom and caused the destruction of that very same kingdom by accident a few months later. And every consequence he had to face because of his actions only gave the problem player more reasons to take revenge, even on innocents, if they were involved in his punishment.


Sometimes punishing players for going nuts just doesn't work. That is, like I mentioned above, I am a huge fan of interesting failures. Twist his failures to make them give him a tiny bit of success, and then add something to the situation they didn't see coming.

Something else you could try is running some one shots with a different theme. Maybe a horror/slasher one shot (check out the game Dread). Warn your players at the start that everyone will probably die, but it is a one shot so it doesn't matter. Maybe a Call of Cthulhu game. A rough post apocalyptic game where they PCs have to either keep the food for them selves or give it to a family they meet.

Ask your player what kind of genres of fiction he is into, and use that to explain how the heroes that fail big some times look more awesome when they get that final huge win. Really point out how awesome your player will look when he has won after all his hardships.


Even if he looks or feel awesome after the hardships, I guess the hardships will and will always be painful for everyone. Some just take them more lightly than others. And I've tried running one shots of new games, but that player's always the most skeptical of the bunch and the most likely not to like the game. Sometimes he's just so skeptical he simply refuses to try a game after hearing what it's about. He refused to try Vampire : The Masquerade or Exalted just because the concept didn't appeal to him.

I already asked that player what he expected from such a game and he told me he only wanted to have fun. He acknowledges that he hates losing to a point that he becomes frustrated, but then says he can't do anything about it because that's how he is. Mea culpa?

Sovereign Court

GroovyTaxi wrote:
We were friends since we were five years old. We're eighteen now. That's how close we are. We argue every once in a while, though. I'm that guy with high intelligence and low wisdom, while he's the guy with low intelligence and high wisdom. We sometimes end up having a few differences, but we never really get angry at each other.

Ok so you are friends and good ones at that. That makes it harder.

GroovyTaxi wrote:
@OilHorse : I tried that a few times, but if we tell him to chill out or take a break when he's trying to kill an important NPC or PC, he'll either understand we're taking a break to let him calm down and take it personally, or he'll just stick to killing that same PC or NPC because he's now persuaded that it's what his character would do.
.

Not the group take a break, just him. Tell him he cannot play with the group until he gets over it.

You say he is not like that outside the game, and he is a lot of fun. next time everyone just go over and give him a hug. Seriously. Diffuse the tension. Deflect the tension away from the game for a bit.

---
Oh Sheet i just killed your PC...
DUDE!! i am gonna kill that guy for that.
Calm down.
NO. i hate losing.
(calmly you get out of your seat and go over to him, at the last minute you grab him and give him a hug) Awww...babay needs some love. Here don't worry the big baddies will get his in the end.
ugh. Dude. I am not like that. Get off me.
Nope. you need to get the maddies outta your pants, and I am here to help.
Ugh. Dude, you crazy. Ok I feel better now.
----

i hope that is how it will go in the future. He gets mad. Get fun back. if you are friends there will be no hard feelings.


Ha! Awesome!


I SERIOUSLY doubt that will work. One of the players at our table does stuff like that and he hates it.

And if we target only him with the break, he'll take it even more personally, because it'll be directed at him and him only.


You gotta do what you gotta do. If he is causing problems, and he cannot/will not change, there are not a lot of options. You may just have to drop. Give him the ultimatum, don't lose it or don't come.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Yeah the more you say, the more I think you need to just sit him down and explain the problem. The sad thing is, the more you say the less I think it will do any good. But at least if you try and have done everything else you have said. You know you did all you could. Sometimes you just have to cut people lose for the greater good.

Grand Lodge

Without claiming any qualifications here or understading of your friend, I think the guy has some issues. I dont necessarily think you want to go digging around in his psyche for them though... heck, could just be teen angst. Fingers crossed thats all it is.

"Its just the way I am" is used as the excuse for many things that are not acceptable. I dont think enabling it is the place to start.

Bring it back to sportsmanship - just keep mentioning the term, as its something that he will be familiar with as a concept. "Remember sportsmanship", "a man who can take a clip in the knees, grin and keep playing is a true sportsman" etc etc.

Also you may want mention that thinking with his balls is limiting his success - for him to consider the game as a creative outlet for trying new ways to get thru things other than kamikaze shows of strength.

Sovereign Court

GroovyTaxi wrote:

I SERIOUSLY doubt that will work. One of the players at our table does stuff like that and he hates it.

And if we target only him with the break, he'll take it even more personally, because it'll be directed at him and him only.

The idea is to lighten the mood, and use him to do that. You know him very well, 13+ years well, so you probably know how to make him smile. Stuff like that will help break the tension.

As for making only him take the break, the whole point is for him to know it is directed at him. You let him know why he is not getting to play. His actions make the game less fun. He can return to the game when he gets over it.

Sovereign Court

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Yeah the more you say, the more I think you need to just sit him down and explain the problem. The sad thing is, the more you say the less I think it will do any good. But at least if you try and have done everything else you have said. You know you did all you could. Sometimes you just have to cut people lose for the greater good.

This is tough advice, but very true. It also goes hand in hand with my advice with making him take a break from the game. If he really cares to play the onus is on him to improve himself.


I had a problem quite like that, or rather I was a problem like that. For me I found shard narration games improved me a lot as a player. When you can do anything for the price of just saying it being interesting becomes well more interesting. Still have some people that don't me play because of bad experiences.


I quit a game for the greater good recently. Dark Heresy, my character kept dying, so I would have to keep bringing in level 1 characters while most/all of the others were on there way to epic. After 3-4 sessions of dying, making a new character, sitting around doing nothing the entire session, I lost it. I had a small break down and left the game, never went back (should have quit a long time ago)...


@Kierato : I'm starting to think he just doesn't realize how he makes other people uncomfortable. Or maybe I'm the only one who's uncomfortable with it, but the other players agree with me that the guy gets angry for no reason.

@Dark_Mistress : I'll try if all else fails.

@OilHorse : I just don't think he's conscious of how his behavior affects the game in the first place. I might try to talk to him about it, but I guess he'll still tell me "Well, sorry, I'm a bad loser, 'can't do anything about it". If he refuses (willingly or just by not understanding) to acknowledge how the way he acts affects the game, I can't actually try and help him with it.

@meowstef : What do you mean by "shard narration games"? I'd like to know more, since you seem to have been in my player's situation.


Kierato wrote:
I quit a game for the greater good recently. Dark Heresy, my character kept dying, so I would have to keep bringing in level 1 characters while most/all of the others were on there way to epic. After 3-4 sessions of dying, making a new character, sitting around doing nothing the entire session, I lost it. I had a small break down and left the game, never went back (should have quit a long time ago)...

I'm having trouble putting myself in my player's shoes because...

1. I'm way too calm.
2. There's no way I'm taking something like this seriously after my players destroyed hundreds of games I had planned for them. Never, ever will I actually hope one of my characters, PC or NPC, survives all the way to the end of the game. Any GM with experience know how I feel.
3. In your situation, I would've left the game after my second death, unless it's really great. I left a Vampire : The Masquerade game after only two game sessions just because I hated my character and had no ideas for a new one.

Sovereign Court

You are not sure if the others are having issues, or are uncomfortable? Find out.

The problem players may not be aware his actions affect the game? Tell him. Make sure he knows.

If his answer is the same..."This is me. I am a bad loser. Deal with it.".
And the other players are uncomfortable with his behavior (or at least feeling more like you do), then removing him from the group may be the final option.

If it not as bothersome to the others as it is to you, then you just need to relax on how you perceive his actions.


OilHorse wrote:
If it not as bothersome to the others as it is to you, then you just need to relax on how you perceive his actions.

That might be it too. I just talked about it to my other players and they agreed that the problem player kept being angry for in-game reasons and that it affected the way he played for every single character he's ever played. Still, I don't know if it really bothers them, or how much it bothers them. Maybe I'm the only one who actually cares about it, but it always pains me a bit to see one of my players is not having fun, and the guy's anger just kills the atmosphere, which makes me believe the other players aren't having much fun when he goes angry.


GroovyTaxi wrote:
I already asked that player what he expected from such a game and he told me he only wanted to have fun. He acknowledges that he hates losing to a point that he becomes frustrated, but then says he can't do anything about it because that's how he is. Mea culpa?

You see his answear would annoy the heck out of me. He recognizes the problem yet refuses to even try to fix it. It is a very self-centered response. I would turn it around and ask him if actualy liked me? And if so can't he even just try to control the 'hating to loose' thing. If he can't than I would question my friendship with this person. Because this more of a issue of respect than anything to do with gaming.

You could also say to him you think he needs a break from gaming as he seems to emotionaly involved....

You could ask him what you could change to make him not to throw hissy fits...and than turn it into a compromise...

Sczarni RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32

Trust the many many years of experience already in this thread.

As for my own 13 years, I am sad to say that my opinion is you need to ask him to leave the group.

I have had a few of these players and I no longer play with any of them. One of them even attacked me when he felt that his character was going to die. Granted, that is an extreme example, but I do fear your own player could reach that point.

If you two really are as close as you say, let him know the truth of your feelings and suggest that you two play in different groups. Suggest that the change not be permanent, but after he has played with a couple other groups. Hopefully, by playing with other groups he learns the game isn't about him, but the group as a whole.

I always say that in situations like this, if you are not having fun you need try something different. In this case, the thing you need to try is a new player.

I am sorry you have the problem you do, it never is easy to deal with a difficult player. Just be be honest, sensitive, and stand firm in the decision you make.


I'm not sure how extreme your player is, but I had players who got very upset when they were overpowered and sold to slavery and a few swore revenge and it was great to motivate them.
I would recommend to try to not kill him ever and let him plan and take his revenge on the ones who were better than him. Of course this only works for parties who aren't bend on playing paladins.

So if the group is okay with such a play style, the player should feel comftable, however he might get upset sometimes, but in a game-involved way.

On the role playing side, he could play Belkar from Order of the stick, the maniac rogue.


bother, i spent time getting the spelling of narration right and missed shared sorry,
mouseguard is an example of a more shared narrative so not sure if it's the best option
Spirit of the Century is another one but basically anything rules and system lite where the focus is on telling a fun story.
this is just what happened with me it may not help or be implementable but i guess you looking for ideas
and yes asking him to take some time away from the game might not be bad idea


I think the players side has been handled thoroughly. In my 30 years experience with D&D/RPGs I can say there is no other way than to either ignore him or talk to him privately.

However, you mentioned him getting mad at being surrounded by an entire army at level 5 - well, my players would go awol on this as well.

If that was a real example you should cut down on plots that carry the danger (or, even worse, assume) that your PCs will find themselves in situations where they simply only can give up/die.


.
..
...
....
.....

Have you tried..

...violence?

Terrify him!

Step 1 When things are getting tense wait until an NPC fails a roll.

Do you have a chainsaw?

If yes proceed to Step 2a. If no proceed to Step 2b

Step 2a Flip out and kill everyone. Proceed to Step 5.

Step 2b Slam your fists down upon the table, throw your head back and go:

''RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWwWWGH!1!!!''

Do you wish to milk it?

If yes proceed to Step 3a. If no proceed to Step3b.

Step 3a Kick back your chair, jump to your feet and throw your hands to the sky and go:

"BWAA BWAAA BWAAAAAARRGH!!!1!!

Step 3b Breath deeply and look around the table, calming down and apologise.

Is everyone cowering in fear/disturbed/spraying ink?

If yes proceed to Step 5. If no proceed to Step 4.

Step 4 Look at the table/die result. Return to Step 2b.

Step 5 Storm off whilst shouting, ''I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!''

::

Become a BIGGER problem! It's the only way! You know this to be true!

You can trust me, I have a chair.

*shakes fist*


At the end of the day, this player is going to run off your other players if this isn't handled somehow. "I'm a poor sport" doesn't cut it for pretty much anyone. We all have our bad days but it sounds like he's missing the point of the RP part of the RPG.

I know you say he's an old friend but he needs to have some respect for you if he really is a friend.


MicMan wrote:

However, you mentioned him getting mad at being surrounded by an entire army at level 5 - well, my players would go awol on this as well.

If that was a real example you should cut down on plots that carry the danger (or, even worse, assume) that your PCs will find themselves in situations where they simply only can give up/die.

@MicMan : My campaign was about giving an enormous power to my players and then remove it from them to see how they would fare with normally constituted characters of their level. The thing is, they did not use their powers wisely at all. They used it to kill knights, innocents, wreak havoc on cities, cause total chaos. Yes, it was a bit cheap of me to put them in a situation where they just couldn't escape, but then, they were captured because they were defeated several times (while they could have won fairly easily) and mostly acted like idiots when they actually had a chance to escape (trying to break out of his prison, one of my players broke the cell door open and then just went back in his cell when he saw the twenty guards in the prison, only to get beaten up for destroying his cell door). Sometimes, when mistakes keep piling up and when you've been accused of murders and betrayal to the king, who now captured you because you ran headfirst towards his castle without planning, I don't understand how you're not supposed to end up AT LEAST ONCE in a situation where there's nothing you can do.

@BenignFascist : Funny, during the game yesterday we talked about an awesome new method to break a bar fight without getting arrested. Just start screaming like crazy right next to the fighters, then grab a chair and act like you're going to hit one of them. Then, drop the chair and run.


What you can do is actually have some real world consequences to his real world actions. When he starts his fit tell him once that if he continues the the session is over for the day. The second time he does it, pack up your books and tell everyone that you will continue next time.

Do this every time. Let him know that you are not going to continue to play a game where you are supposed to be having fun with your friends if your friends aren't having fun. Obviously he isn't having fun at that point and his continued frustration only drains the fun from everyone.

Don't play another game at that point. Pop a light-hearted movie in the DVD player or check out NetFlix. Go do something else. Whatever it is, it should not be another game. His frustration will carry over.

Later on, pull him aside and let him know that this is how you are going to run things. Tell him that his actions are making the game less fun for everyone. He needs to focus on changing or he will be asked to not game with you anymore. You two can still do all kinds of other things but gaming would not be one of them.

I have a few friends that I don't game with but we still hang out and do other things. Our friendship isn't hurt by this because we are good friends.


The bottom line is that the game is supposed to be fun, and one selfish jerk is ruining the game for everyone. That is simply not acceptable adult behavior. Period. There is no "but" or "however" to that.

It is not acceptable for an 18 year old to act like a whiny, petulant brat.

None of the excuses offered are acceptable. Every effort made to accept this person's behavior is simply enabling it and allowing it to continue. I've known people like this and frankly I don't game with them if they can't control themselves.

Tell him, FIRMLY, that his behavior is unacceptable and that the next time he blows up or acts out, the game will be over for the evening. Tell him THEN that the next time he does it, he won't be invited back.

As long as you make excuses for his behavior and accommodate him, he sees no reason to change.


GroovyTaxi wrote:
The problem player will do ANYTHING to try and escape and he will actually get angry OOC because he failed to escape, defeat or outwit an entire army by himself while his halfling rogue is level 5. Everytime his character gets defeated, caught, slain or even when his plans fail, as dire as the situation could be, he'll be pissed in and out of the game.

There are a few points here which jump out at me. . .

1) In D&D/PF, there *is* no losing condition. Even a TPK means that you reroll characters and start a new story. Some people may qualify that as "losing", but that's simply putting a label on something that isn't labeled like that. A game can have a losing state, but it is clearly defined. For instance, you lose a game of chess in very explicit ways. You lose a game of Monopoly depending on a very explicit indicator (out of money). Dying isn't a losing state in D&D/PF; raise dead makes that go away pretty quickly. Getting captured isn't a losing state; it's just an element of the story that goes in a different direction. I can go on and on, but really it's in his/your mind. Start playing the game from the perspective that there is no way to lose. You'll probably enjoy it more and he'll probably feel more comfortable roleplaying.

2) Sometimes people get a little too invested in their characters. In that case, the player should be reminded that the character is not a representation of the player. The player controls the character, but the character's actions may not even remotely apply to what the player thinks/does. For example: if the character acts in a stupid manner, that doesn't necessarily mean that the player acts in a stupid manner. I know a lot of people tend to play characters that are effectively avatars of themselves in real life. While I don't have a problem with this, I do have a problem when the players begin to blur the line between their characters and themselves. D&D/PF is most enjoyable when people realize it is a game. Failing to do that will inevitably cause problems.

3) While you say he's not angry in other areas of his life, I'm not so sure. This situation sounds like he's bottling anger from external sources and releasing it in the game. If you're good friends with him, maybe you should encourage him to try controlling his anger instead of bottling it. There are lots of anger management techniques that can drastically improve quality of life. Do a google search and see if you can find some that could be applicable. . .


I see you have three options:

a) never let him lose
b) tell him to change his behavior, again
c) tell him not to come back

Good luck!


If he were one of my friends this is how I would handle it.

Arrange to meet as usual with all players.
Contact all the players except the problem one before the next session.
Tell them it will not be a normal session.
This next session do not open the books, or set up the GM screen, or fetch out dice.
Instead hold an intervention.
Have everyone (one at a time) inform the player (at a time when he is not upset) how his actions are affecting their enjoyment of the game.

If this were a player in one of my LGS games.
The first time he used the phrase "I hate to lose" to excuse his behavior. He would be pointed to the door and told "you are not welcome at any game I GM, Nor any game in which I PC."


BenignFacist wrote:

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Have you tried..

...violence?

Terrify him!

Step 1 When things are getting tense wait until an NPC fails a roll.

Do you have a chainsaw?

If yes proceed to Step 2a. If no proceed to Step 2b

Step 2a Flip out and kill everyone. Proceed to Step 5.

Step 2b Slam your fists down upon the table, throw your head back and go:

''RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWwWWGH!1!!!''

Do you wish to milk it?

If yes proceed to Step 3a. If no proceed to Step3b.

Step 3a Kick back your chair, jump to your feet and throw your hands to the sky and go:

"BWAA BWAAA BWAAAAAARRGH!!!1!!

Step 3b Breath deeply and look around the table, calming down and apologise.

Is everyone cowering in fear/disturbed/spraying ink?

If yes proceed to Step 5. If no proceed to Step 4.

Step 4 Look at the table/die result. Return to Step 2b.

Step 5 Storm off whilst shouting, ''I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!''

::

Become a BIGGER problem! It's the only way! You know this to be true!

You can trust me, I have a chair.

*shakes fist*

This.

Seriously, though, make it the whole point of the campaign to get that one guy that screwed the player over. Use that motivation to drive a plot.

"I'm gonna kill that guy!"
"Oh, really? Well, he's taken your magical axe of paintodaface, your father's pocket watch, and his carriage ran over your cat, Scruffy, when he fled town. Your character wakes up in an alley with no money and a sore b&~@&*#+. It's your move, choose wisely."

You see a problem, where I see a reason to push onward.

Liberty's Edge

I've been like this before. Thankfully, I'm not any more.

The problem with this condition is that the best remedy is exactly the one you don't want to apply: losing.

People hate losing often because they're so unfamiliar with it, but it can be a good experience. That said, if you really just don't want to deal with it you don't have to. He can be excused from the games for a year or two until he figures out how to lose gracefully.

EDIT: Also, he needs to learn how to calm down and let go between games, rather than stewing his thoughts in the juices of his own failure (which is probably what's happening now).

Dark Archive

He sounds competitive and hates to lose it's really not that rare of an attitude and something you tend to run into quite a bit when playing a game. He'll have to get over it or will probably stop enjoying the game it's just how it is.


It's also not an attitude that requires therapy.

Silver Crusade

I have played with people who take losing really poorly. Their mood at the table would vary directly with how well they were doing in the game. I took them by the horns and gave them all the things that made them angry. Pooh they hated it and I loved it. But I was not friends with those people.

I would suggest you play to your friend's "strengths." If someone defeats him he goes all captain Ahab on them. Now in this case Ahab kills the whale sometimes and sometimes the whale kills him. What if the whale would not stay killed?

Have an NPC who when killed comes back by some mechanism. He does not remember the circumstances of his death and just goes about his business which takes him across the path of your friend. Now you could also apply that effect to your friend's next character (with some penalty for dying).

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Silver Crusade

Regarding your actual request:

The "that is what my character would do" argument is hard to refute as it is his character after all. You should not control his character After all you control the whole universe. I have had many players pull this on me.

I have always responded that we are playing a game together and that each player has a responsibility to play nice. If you do not play nice then I will not play nice. I will control your character. Rocks will fall, you will die. Your next character will die before he can say two words. The next one will die and so on until you play nice or leave.

I have had to make good on my threats. I have let people spend an hour putting together a character just to kill it outright. Then people have straightened up. No one has ever left the game though they have stormed out of that session.

"I hate to lose" is a stupid thing to say. Everyone hates to lose. The DM spends the whole game setting himself up for a loss, multiple losses. To make the game fun then some times the players have to lose. So your response is that it is a stupid thing to say.


karkon wrote:

Regarding your actual request:

The "that is what my character would do" argument is hard to refute as it is his character after all. You should not control his character After all you control the whole universe. I have had many players pull this on me.

His characters have good behavior up until he loses so I would just have a deity who sometimes reverses wrongful deaths. If he kills a PC that PC immediately comes back to life.

To set it up I would have a wronged PC be so taken back by his death that he ascends to being a deity(NPC). That deity is the one that saves all the other PC's from wrongful deaths.

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