Shields only add the costs together. See Magic Armor: Shields.
You mean this sentence: "A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC."?
Then its in the grey area of item creation, because its two different abilities on one magic item and would normally be sublect to this:
"Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price. "
But im fine with it, special before general.
Otherwise the build would become crazy expensive and im also not a fan of that. Too many real flavorfull stuff is already too expensive on the item or feat side. And if you compare this to the 2-handed damage crazyness and some magic stuff its like a a little flaw of the game.
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nope. Shield bonuses don't stack.
If I recall correctly, in 3.0, a shield gave an armor bonus that happened to stack with the armor bonus from armor. This was regarded as a problem, and it was fixed to a 'shield bonus' in 3.5.
And so dual shielding, without some sort of feat or trait or archetype ability that allows for two shield bonuses to stack, became impossible, even for the classical Aspis (an ant-dude that wielded two shields) or a Thri-Kreen or Xill or Hecatoncheire (hundred-handed giant) or whatever.
Instead of saying 'the armor bonus from a shield can stack with the armor bonus from worn armor, or the mage armor spell,' they went and fixed the leak with dynamite, as it seemed 3.5 changes were wont to do...
And dodge bonuses still stack. So the drastic overreaction to eradicate this particular example of 'exception based design' failed anyway.
It's not quite as laughable as the changing mindless skeletons to evil so that Paladins can smite them, or the changing how DR works 'to eliminate golf-bag syndrome' (which, *was created by the change to eliminate it*), but it's in the top ten, along with 'druids are underpowered, let's give them an animal companion that scales with level to replace their menagerie of useless speedbumps gleaned through animal friendship'...
Shields only add the costs together. See Magic Armor: Shields.You mean this sentence: "A shield could be built that also acted as a magic weapon, but the cost of the enhancement bonus on attack rolls would need to be added into the cost of the shield and its enhancement bonus to AC."?
Then its in the grey area of item creation, because its two different abilities on one magic item and would normally be sublect to this:
"Multiple Different Abilities: Abilities such as an attack roll bonus or saving throw bonus and a spell-like function are not similar, and their values are simply added together to determine the cost. For items that take up a space on a character's body, each additional power not only has no discount but instead has a 50% increase in price. "But im fine with it, special before general.
Otherwise the build would become crazy expensive and im also not a fan of that. Too many real flavorfull stuff is already too expensive on the item or feat side. And if you compare this to the 2-handed damage crazyness and some magic stuff its like a a little flaw of the game.
It's not really even a specific versus general thing. Shields don't take up a slot on a character's body. The +50% cost thing is for things like those belts that give +X Str and +X Dex in the same body slot. Weapons, Armor, and other non-body slot items like Ioun Stones do not suffer the +50% penalty (though Ioun Stones cost twice as much as normal anyway).
Would this be the same series that has a guy have a machine gun for a leg?Dual-shielding is silly.I beg to differ.
For all of you nay-sayers out there, I have three words: Watch Samurai Jack.
I know of at least two episodes right of the top of my head where uses two shields effectively.
Look it up.
Yes it is.
The eposode that is talked about with dual-shields is the one with the sparten-like 300 vs. 1,000,000 bug mechines made by Aku.eposode XXV i think. And it did win an Emmy.
That my friend kicks ass!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9uILn0iCUs
(Double Tiger Head Shield technique)
Also, historical, as pointed out in the other thread.
prototype00
Whats even more kick ass is that the shields apparently weighed 20 lbs apiece. Thats about (slightly more than) heavy steel shield weight. That dude is dual wielding heavy steel shields.
prototype00
Where is the info on the shields weighing 20 lbs?
I feel special now. And unintentionally ornery.
Here's the dual shielder NPC I drafted up for my campaign:
Orion the Shield
N Human Warrior 7
Init +4; Sense Perception +1
Defense
AC 24, touch 17, flat-footed 17
HP 45 (7d10+7)
Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +3
Offense
Speed 20 ft.
Melee: Razorshield +12 (1d8+2/x2)
Full Atk: Razorshield +12/+7 (1d8+1/x2)
Full Atk: Razorshield +10/+7 (1d8+1/x2), Razorshield +10/+7 (1d8+1/x2)
Statistics
STR 14, DEX 18, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 8
Base Atk +7/+2; CMB +9; CMD 16
Feats: Improved Shield Bash, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Shield Focus, Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
Skills: Craft (armor) +7, Profession (gladiator) +8
Languages: Common
Equipment: breastplate +1, 2 bashing razorshields +1 (Razorshields have a bladed edge. They function as spiked shields but deal slashing instead of piercing damage.)
Can you give a brackdown of how you got your 24 AC, Brianide?
Can you give a brackdown of how you got your 24 AC, Brianide?
Dex 18, +4
shield +1, I'm guessing heavy to bring it to +3shield focus for +1
breastplate +1 for, 7
What I can see is 24 (10+ 3 dex[max dex of armor,he's not a fighter], +4 shield [shield focus], +7 armor]
If those shields are light it's 23. The enhancement bonuses wouldn't stack.
Where is the info on the shields weighing 20 lbs?That my friend kicks ass!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9uILn0iCUs
(Double Tiger Head Shield technique)
Also, historical, as pointed out in the other thread.
prototype00
Whats even more kick ass is that the shields apparently weighed 20 lbs apiece. Thats about (slightly more than) heavy steel shield weight. That dude is dual wielding heavy steel shields.
prototype00
The person who posted the video had this to say in the comments:
According to students that were around back when these vids were made, each shield weighed 20 lbs.
Sence the shields are bashing and do 1d8 dam., i was thinking they were light shilds. Maybe he forgot the Max Dex?
A lot of people get pissed when someone requests realism in fantasy RPGs, since there are magic users around. They forget that what makes the magic users awesome is that the fighters can't do that. Fighting with two shields begins to break the suspension of disbelief (also called jumping the shark or 'that episode that I stopped watching').C'mon people. unrealistic? At first level a normal melee character can have 16 str and 16 dex, without magic. That is an olympic weightilifting gymnast. With those scores he can juggle dumbbells and spring from a handstand into a triple backwards somersault. At high levels with magic items, your atributes can reach the high twenties, even thirties. That is superhero stuff. Enough to juggle half a dozen anvils and spring from a one handed handstand into a triple backwards somersault, while wearing full plate.
Just because fighters can't bend reality doesn't mean they can't pull impossible feats. They have the scores and the training. You just have to stop thinking they're mundane when they are heroes.
Take into account that a high strength score is very unusual (10 is average for humans), there are no Olympics, there are adventurers instead. So here's what we need to do. Get a couple Olympians together and see if they can fight with two full sized medieval shields.
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Ok, I have been playing this guy off and on since about 2009. http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b179/kpbconn/Rastist.jpg.
This is my Halfling barbarian Rastists. He not mid-maxed he is just fun to play.
I pictured from the point of veiw as Paris Hiltons Chuwahah? Some cheliaxian princess status symbol. I originally thought of using paired Klars but The idea of some halfing gladiator thinking shields protected more and for every battle he won, he got add the weapon to his shield to do more damage to collect more weapons.
PS: If you have a problem with character you will get to see him up close at Paizo con this year.
Thanks to Callous Jack who drew up such a crazy character.
Take into account that a high strength score is very unusual (10 is average for humans), there are no Olympics, there are adventurers instead. So here's what we need to do. Get a couple Olympians together and see if they can fight with two full sized medieval shields.A lot of people get pissed when someone requests realism in fantasy RPGs, since there are magic users around. They forget that what makes the magic users awesome is that the fighters can't do that. Fighting with two shields begins to break the suspension of disbelief (also called jumping the shark or 'that episode that I stopped watching').C'mon people. unrealistic? At first level a normal melee character can have 16 str and 16 dex, without magic. That is an olympic weightilifting gymnast. With those scores he can juggle dumbbells and spring from a handstand into a triple backwards somersault. At high levels with magic items, your atributes can reach the high twenties, even thirties. That is superhero stuff. Enough to juggle half a dozen anvils and spring from a one handed handstand into a triple backwards somersault, while wearing full plate.
Just because fighters can't bend reality doesn't mean they can't pull impossible feats. They have the scores and the training. You just have to stop thinking they're mundane when they are heroes.
Let's also remember that the standard heavy shield in D&D/PF is about 10 lbs, or literally half the weight of the 20 lb. shields that were in the video presented earlier from an actual martial art from our own world. A heavy steel shield is 15 lbs.
A tower shield is much larger and heavier, but you can't dual wield those because you would greatly lack offense, as the only way you could attack would be to use armor spikes, bites, unarmed strikes, etc.
The shields are light. I probably mis-calculated a point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9uILn0iCUs
(Double Tiger Head Shield technique)
Is it just me, or does it look like he just stuck some heavy metal objects to his arms to build up his upper-body strength while doing kata?
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Honestly, I think a dual-klar wielding Shoanti Ranger could be a pretty fun character to play.
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Is it just me, or does it look like he just stuck some heavy metal objects to his arms to build up his upper-body strength while doing kata?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9uILn0iCUs
(Double Tiger Head Shield technique)
Nope I don't think so. (Different video)
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I find Dual Shielding to be really cool. I love the idea of Dual Shielding. I can just see this really well trained Dwarf warrior wielding 2 heavy spiked steal shields guarding deep tunnels inside a dwarven city.
Dual Shielding just feels like it would be the Elite fighting style of the best trained Dwarves.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/3rd-party-equipment/3rd-party-arm or-shields/3rd-party-shields/super-genius-games/serrated-shield
"A serrated shield is a round heavy steel shield, which has a sharpened, serrated edge 3/4 of the way around the outside. (The unsharpened section is designed to be the part held close to your arm and body when defending.) If you are proficient with a serrated shield, when you use it for a shield bash, instead of the usual damage the shield deals 1d6 slashing damage (1d4 for serrated shields designed for Small creatures) and threatens a critical hit on a natural attack roll of 19–20."
How to make your shield considered a weapon.