I have a fighter 14 and a fighter (twohanded) 10/barb 4 in my current campaign. Popular opinion frequently holds them as the most powerful members of the team.
I love all my fighters, but they always die :(
In my part there were two fighters at the start. One polearm-fighting archetype from APG and one regular going for falcata-and-board. After rereading PF rules he decided to switch character and went for Ranger as it will allow him to get Bashing Finish before end of campaign (from the start I stated that the campaign will end at 10th level).
I just want to know if anyone else out there still plays a fighter. I do and I really enjoy playing him.
I do, and one in my groups also does. They are really cool IMO :-)
The fighter is pretty good at what he's meant to do (until roughly level 10) it's just that what he's meant to do isn't very good.
Fighters, or any warrior class esp 2h warriors, just rock the house levels, oh, 1-2. They still have their uses, as bodyguards to the casters, til probably 5-7. Or in niche situations like a 200-ft wide anti-magic zone (stupid DM! *shakes fist*).
Other than that, as a class, Fighter is sort of mediocre right now. And that's being nice.
The real fun to be had is at the med BAB martials. Inquisitor, Magus, Summoner. And Barbarian, til they nerf the AM Barbarian build. I'll shed a tear that day.
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A friend of mine is running a Fighter who dual-wields battle axes. He believes that one of them is his wife.
Plain old vanilla fighters may not be the most exciting class to play, but in many ways they excell. At low levels they can be effective archers, two weapon fighters, two handed damage dealers (with only the barbarian edging them out), and I'm pretty sure I can draw up an archer build that beats out any other martial archer on a regular basis.
With the right build they'll have the best AC, a to hit bonus that only a barbarian beats (without situational modifiers), a damage bonus that rivals other classes (even with situational modifiers), and a score of combat manuevers that can control any combat they're in.
Why get fancy when you don't have to?
I do; fighter is a great way to play a character where the class doesn't force a certain type of character.
Yes, obviously, you can play any type of character with any class. But you'll spend much more time explaining some combinations where I've never seen anyone question a background for a fighter unless it just copy/pasted from some other media.
I think what I like about fighter mechanically is that I know exactly what I'm going to get. You don't have to worry about something that is used in limited situations. I know that can be overcome, but sometimes dependable is better when it comes to sheer numbers.
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The fighter is pretty good at what he's meant to do (until roughly level 10) it's just that what he's meant to do isn't very good.
Fighters, or any warrior class esp 2h warriors, just rock the house levels, oh, 1-2. They still have their uses, as bodyguards to the casters, til probably 5-7. Or in niche situations like a 200-ft wide anti-magic zone (stupid DM! *shakes fist*).
Other than that, as a class, Fighter is sort of mediocre right now. And that's being nice.
I see this brought up a lot and would like to just state my view on this once: I really do not share this view. I have played fighters - including pathfinder fighters - from level 1 to level 24, and I have always had lots of fun and ways to shine. What other classes have as abilities, you can cover to large extent with mundane and magical gear. It sometimes requires a bit thinking around corners and NOT dumping stats like intelligence or charisma.
For example, two epic level games I played in (level 18-24) I had a DM who was absolutely convinced that fighters (actually all non-casters) suck and repeatedly advised me not to play one or at least use the tome of battle classes to beef it up. I went pure fighter each time and was the only one still standing. He actually told me he was frustrated that he could not kill him and that I did too much damage with my purely non-magical abilities (no immunities worked against him, DR didn't really matter, I had well over 320 hitpoints due to focusing on constitution instead of strength so the cleric kept me up even after the worst hits with heals and channels etc.).Fighters are an excellent class and allow for very diverse builds without complicated (and sometimes extremely strange) background stories :-)
The real fun to be had is at the med BAB martials. Inquisitor, Magus, Summoner. And Barbarian, til they nerf the AM Barbarian build. I'll shed a tear that day.
They are certainly nice - my favourite class is bard - but I also like paladins and rangers, so in general I disagree here as well :-)
It sometimes requires a bit thinking around corners and NOT dumping stats like intelligence or charisma.
Build please? I see these claims rather often, but usually its a case of everyone else at the table being under optimized.
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It sometimes requires a bit thinking around corners and NOT dumping stats like intelligence or charisma.Build please? I see these claims rather often, but usually its a case of everyone else at the table being under optimized.
So what? Is being optimized so important? Does every single gaming group play difficult dungeon crawls so that everyone has to be optimized to survive? WTH?
My primary PFS character is a Taldan fighter, with no stats below 10, who specializes in Intimidate, Diplomacy and Sense Motive. He's usually the Party Face, and when we have offensive casty types in the group, the fact that he can do Dazzling Display and soften up saving throws makes him popular.
It sometimes requires a bit thinking around corners and NOT dumping stats like intelligence or charisma.Build please? I see these claims rather often, but usually its a case of everyone else at the table being under optimized.
My wife went with a human mobility fighter using a falcata. She could one round anything we faced in legacy of fire and her stats were str 14 dex 16 con 14 int 12 wis 14 cha 8 before level adjustments.
I find damage after a certain point is generally overkill and probably unneeded, at later levels she sprung for wings of flying to stay in the air. Her feats were the weapon specialization line, iron will, shield focus, dodge, nimble moves and acrobatic steps, dodge, taldan duelist, greater shield focus, improved initiative, toughness, and power attack if I remember correctly.
I currently play a level 6 non-archetype human fighter ( archer) fighter.
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So what? Is being optimized so important? Does every single gaming group play difficult dungeon crawls so that everyone has to be optimized to survive? WTH?It sometimes requires a bit thinking around corners and NOT dumping stats like intelligence or charisma.Build please? I see these claims rather often, but usually its a case of everyone else at the table being under optimized.
No not all, I know some do. In my group no one builds optimized builds. They go for a concept. In the group I mentioned above with 3 fighters. One is a 2h, 1 a sword and board and the last mounted combat.
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First about this:
I see these claims rather often, but usually its a case of everyone else at the table being under optimized.
I really don't get this. What does optimization of fellow group members have to do with how much fun and how usable a fighter is? If your measure of a playable, fun class is how well it comes out in an optimization game, we have very different views and playstyles.
It sometimes requires a bit thinking around corners and NOT dumping stats like intelligence or charisma.Build please?
I have my builds on paper somewhere, so I cannot give you them. Maybe I could develop one later. For now, just some general points from the top of my head:
- Focussing only on damage is a bad thing and does not give the fighter credit. Instead of trying to win a DPR race, use the versatility of combat styles a fighter can easily implement: battlefield control, critical focused, intimidation, ranged, melee, tank ... Many more, but these are just some.
- Fighter is pretty much the only class besides ranger that can effectively implement two different combat styles, them being for example ranged and melee, or TWF and THF, sword and board and TWF etc. Dumping all feats into just one style such as THF certainly makes that one have impressive results, but diminishes the overall versatility of a fighter.
- The fighter may retrain his bonus feats. Use that to adapt to changing conditions (I am not entirely sure, but I believe the fighter is the only class who is allowed to that with feats).
- You got more than enough bonus feats. Try getting feats with your regular feats that make you more versatile, e.g. leadership, eldritch heritage line, skill focuses (who needs see invisibility if your perception is good enough?), item creation, role playing feats (for diplomacy, intimidation or such), "protective" feats (iron will line etc.).
- Look at magic items. I mean, really look at them. For example, I recently built Legolas from Lord of the Rings as a 20th level archer fighter for a fun game with friends. His incredibly high dexterity (I think he has somethin in the 30s) coupled with a ring of evasion made him almost immune to most area effects even highest level wizards could throw at him.
Other cool items are things like bracers of armor (yes, it does not stack with your ordinary armor, but it will be very useful against incorporeal enemies! Plus you can appear to be an easy target without your armor on (sleep etc.) even though you are not...), caltrops, dust of appearance, multiple bags of holdings (you could carry sandsacks in them to build improvised fortifications), everlasting candles, items that grant you flight or darkvision or teleportation, the always popular cloaks of resistence, periapt of proof against poison (don't need to be a druid for that feature!) etc.
One of my favourites is the headband of intelligence: You can maximize up to three skills with it, and by simply putting one rank into a corresponding trained skill, you can reach high numbers without a hefty skill investment.
Wands are something to look at at least twice. It's fixed DC to safely activate makes it very easy to get a lot of utility at low cost, i.e. level 1 or 2 wands (cures, endure elements, shield, blur, ...). If you don't want to invest too much into that one skill, just get a headband of intelligence for it. Otherwise (or combined), skill focus + dangerously curious trait + 1 rank already gives you a +8 without your charisma bonus. At level 10 with 10 ranks you have a +20 (without charisma), so you can reliably use wands and even a lot of scrolls.
Consider commissioning magic items that combine abilities. This is particularly useful if you have group members with item creation feats.
- A lot of mundane items are really useful. Who needs stone shape if you have a pick? An adamantine one if possible, eventually? It's a weapon as well, you know...
Alchemists fire (bye bye swarms, also good for surprise attacks on enemies resting in tents), crowbars, games (cards, dice etc. - earn money or befriend people), ink and chalk (mark the walls in mazes), folding ladders, itching powder, poisons (unless your DM bans it), smoke sticks, shovels (fortifications, dig holes under that palisade you cannot cross reliably), ropes (lots of them!) and grappling hooks, tent, vermin repellent... Lots of cool stuff.
- Consider your role. I wanted to take tons of damage with one of my fighters, so I was satisfied with a strength of 16, but went up to a constitution of 30 at level 20 and added toughness on top of that.
A reach weapon plus lunge (and maybe a potion of enlarge person) makes you a fantastic battlefield controller - you might throw an improved unarmed strike feat in there to ensure nobody tries to squeeze by, though.
Combat maneuvers give you an edge in many situations. That's certainly nothing new, but the fighter gets to add his weapon training bonus to them. This can quickly lead to really high bonuses, even when not going the damage line (weapon specialization).
Alternatively you might want to play an intelligent fighter who sets up traps or leads. A higher-than-average intelligence (14+) does not only give you skill points, but opens up the combat expertise line. Regrettably, the duelist prestige class which seems a natural fit for that kind of warrior is pretty limited. More options here would not hurt.
- Don't only carry one weapon, but several ones, each for different purposes: bludgeoning, piercing, slashing, special materials, specific uses (picks, shovels, ...), ranged and melee weapons etc. Get special abilities such as ghost touch or seeking to make sure you do hit when it is necessary.
- I cannot stress this enough: Do not focus on damage! Yes, damage is important, but not at the cost of your versatility in combat! The fighter has proficiency in all martial weapons - use that! If you overemphasize one weapon only, you will be great with it - but not do much besides that.
- Lately I have toyed with the idea of non-magical characters, i.e. characters that may use magic items, but has no magical abilites by himself. I have built a non-magical rangers so far, but fighters would also be suited for that. To me, the idea of a character that is just an ordinary guy without inborn powers or a divine affinity can prevail in a world of magic, monsters and mystery, is quite intriguing :-)
OK, that was a bit longer than expected... Hope it's of use to someone :-)
I generally play fighters. And not for feats or anything else, but for flavor.
Our last campaign was four fighters with different specializations. It was awesome.
Sounds really cool! :-D
Maybe I will start a "four [class] can do everything" thread that tries to show how you can cover pretty much everything with every class if you try to... :-P
First about this:
I really don't get this. What does optimization of fellow group members have to do with how much fun and how usable a fighter is? If your measure of a playable, fun class is how well it comes out in an optimization game, we have very different views and playstyles.
I see these claims rather often, but usually its a case of everyone else at the table being under optimized.
Well, if you're playing a low optimization game, where there is either a gaping hole in your formation (no heals, no caster) or where there is a lot of redundancy, and combat takes a back seat to story, and the GM routinely fudges rolls, then your fighter is going to rock because the GM is too afraid to kill a PC. I've seen that. A LOT!! If everyone is playing poorly, and the party resorts to doing damage to win most of the time (not the optimal choice usually) then the fighter will shine. If players don't know the game very well, and are expecting a board game type dungeon crawl, and the GM acquiesces, then the fighter will shine.
I see people constantly defend melee types with outrageous claims, and I can only assume their GM runs things radically differently than how mine have. And mine have been melee friendly! But nonetheless levels 13+ always belong to the casters.
Don't get me wrong, it's nice having a figher along so you can count on some regular damage without expending resources, I just can't see playing a class that is SO dependent on others to function.
First about this:
I really don't get this. What does optimization of fellow group members have to do with how much fun and how usable a fighter is? If your measure of a playable, fun class is how well it comes out in an optimization game, we have very different views and playstyles.
I see these claims rather often, but usually its a case of everyone else at the table being under optimized.Well, if you're playing a low optimization game, where there is either a gaping hole in your formation (no heals, no caster) or where there is a lot of redundancy, and combat takes a back seat to story, and the GM routinely fudges rolls, then your fighter is going to rock because the GM is too afraid to kill a PC. I've seen that. A LOT!! If everyone is playing poorly, and the party resorts to doing damage to win most of the time (not the optimal choice usually) then the fighter will shine. If players don't know the game very well, and are expecting a board game type dungeon crawl, and the GM acquiesces, then the fighter will shine.
I see people constantly defend melee types with outrageous claims, and I can only assume their GM runs things radically differently than how mine have. And mine have been melee friendly! But nonetheless levels 13+ always belong to the casters.
Don't get me wrong, it's nice having a figher along so you can count on some regular damage without expending resources, I just can't see playing a class that is SO dependent on others to function.
Again, I have completely different experiences than you do. See my post about my DM in the epic level games: He HATED melees, rolled openly and regularly succeeded in characters. I can almost hear him speaking with what you say about level 13+ (only it was level 9+ with him) belonging to casters.
And the group was OK till optimized (depending on the players). My fighter survived (unlike others!) everything and always contributed meaningfully.So, I respectfully completely disagree here ;-P
Fighters rock. They're unequaled as archers, and the barbarian is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with them in melee (and when he's out of rage, the scale tips back towards the fighter).
Exactly. And unlike the fighter, a simple second level spell shuts down muich of his offensive and defensive powers (easily killing him if he's only still standing due to his rage bonus hp).
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Our Pathfinder Society group is bringing in new players and starting new level 1 characters for the existing players lately, so we played a level 1 adventure with new characters last week. We had 2 fighters out of 6 players. One of them is a fighter/rogue combo build, where she anticipates going rogue roughly 2/3 of her levels. I think the other is planning to stick to pure dwarven fighter.
Never played a fighter and neither has anybody else in my gaming group, seems too plain though if I see one more switch hitting ranger with a wolf/small cat companion I may just ban the class at my table.
Fighter may be my favorite class. It's certainly the best for new players. I'm a big fan of the 'Badass Normal' trope, and fighters are a lot of fun.
I'm currently planning to play a fighter in a play-by-post I've entered. A typical spearman. Fighters are pretty well awesome.
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I just want to know if anyone else out there still plays a fighter. I do and I really enjoy playing him.
I'm playing one in Erik Mona's Kings of Absalom game and am quite enjoying it. Doesn't hurt that he's a LN Hellknight too (though he's far from taking that PrC) and makes a fair number of decrees. Even got to yell during last week's game. As I usually play casters, I'm finding that being intractable and having the high AC and damage output to back it up is pretty fun. :)
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Actually, my first ever D&D character was a fighter - back in 1983, using the red box Basic Set. I don't think I've played a fighter since, but I was usually the DM for my group in the 80's, then didn't play for 20 years until recently.
I keep coming up with ideas for various characters I'd like to try in Pathfinder, and at least one or two of them would work well as fighters. I already have a barbarian, so my next front line combatant will probably be a fighter instead, unless I decide to try a paladin.
I keep saying I'm going to end up with a dozen 1st level Pathfinder Society characters that I've never used. So far, I've got two of them (on top of the two PFS characters I have played), but I've got ideas for at least 4 more.
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Polemasters are amazing tripmongers. Have a whirlwind tripper with a horsechopper, once I get lunge I will officially own the world :). Leave rows of enemies on their back then AOO them as they get up (and @ 6 can do it while they are go down instead), it's pretty crazy.
Human
1) Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus: Luceren Hammer, Dodge
2) Combat Expertise
3) Mobility
4) Switch WF for Spring Attack, Whirlwind attack
5) Have magical horsechopper as weapon, Improved Trip
6) Greater Improved Trip
7) (Moving into Inquisitor for Growth domain), Lunge
9) Power Attack
At 7 I'll be able to get everyone within 25 feet, including those against me or 10 feet away with a -2 penalty. Then get 4 AOOs, each one at +1 to hit in addition to the +4 for them being on the ground :).
You are aware that Lunge only applies to attacks made on your turn, yes? (I see lots of people thinking Lunge + Combat Reflexes gives a gigantic AoO threatened space; it's not the case.)
Combat patrol gives the huge threatened area.
==Aelryinth
I just want to know if anyone else out there still plays a fighter. I do and I really enjoy playing him.I'm playing one in Erik Mona's Kings of Absalom game and am quite enjoying it. Doesn't hurt that he's a LN Hellknight too (though he's far from taking that PrC) and makes a fair number of decrees. Even got to yell during last week's game. As I usually play casters, I'm finding that being intractable and having the high AC and damage output to back it up is pretty fun. :)
Kings of Absalom you say? I suddenly want to know more just due to the name.
I generally play fighters. And not for feats or anything else, but for flavor.
Our last campaign was four fighters with different specializations. It was awesome.
What flavor?
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The fighter is the one class that is a total blank slat. It has whatever flavor you give it.
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Fighters rock. They're unequaled as archers, and the barbarian is the only one who can go toe-to-toe with them in melee (and when he's out of rage, the scale tips back towards the fighter).Exactly. And unlike the fighter, a simple second level spell shuts down muich of his offensive and defensive powers (easily killing him if he's only still standing due to his rage bonus hp).
Calm Emotions stops everyone from fighting, and a barbarian is better suited then a fighter at resisting it. Not to say fighters suck because of that, just that resisting spells isn't really going to be an area that fighters are better then barbarians.
Kings of Absalom you say? I suddenly want to know more just due to the name.
Yah. It's Erik's campaign where he's running the same adventure for two different groups - one at the office and one at the Ballard game store Card Kingdom. There's a slight competitive element to it between the two groups, with the winner(s) obtaining some degree of influence in the city at the game's conclusion. So far we've fought tons of gray dwarves, learned a good bit about the true history of the god Aroden, found a haunted planes-traveling boat, and started down the path of assuring the legend of our traveling companion, the tengu folk hero Artemis Craw.
The fighter is the one class that is a total blank slat. It has whatever flavor you give it.
I like my fighters with onion, garlic
and CHEESE!