Rogue + *enter arcane spellcaster here*


Silver Crusade

I'm wanting to have a character who can fill the Rogue's shoes, but also be detrimental with magic. *I'm not sure what the rest of the party is going to be yet*

Using the CRB and APG only.

Basically, I'm looking for trapfinding and being the skill monkey, but not necessarily attacking via attack/sneak attack. I was thinking of going blasting magic, with a giant returning starknife for backup. (already have talked to the GM about the specs)

What I'm wondering is what cross-class/race combo would best be fit for this? I was thinking a Sorcerer/Rogue mix, as the extra Cha with the ridiculous skills making me the party's "face". Haven't thought of the bloodline to go with that yet, though. Maybe Celestial? Not overly fond of prepping spells, but I'm willing to try out Wizard or Witch. Maybe I'm going all wrong with the Rogue...however, this character concept is VERY LOOSELY based on Yuffie from FFVII, so I'd like to keep close-ish to her.

Any ideas or suggestions would be great.

EDIT: Party level is going to be 8. I may got for Arcane Trickster, but haven't decided yet. It seems the most logical choice if I'm going rogue/spellcaster, though.

Sorcerer since the extra spells per day will help make up for the lost levels and you will likely be casting a few spells over and over.

Consider the vivisectionist since they get sneak attack and the extracts/mutagen.

Maybe bard would be a good class to try and build this concept, they are great skill monkeys get arcane spells (with armor!) and get many of the same proficiencies as rogues (I believe there is an archetype that gets trapfinding).

Think about putting a thread up in conversions for a specific character from another source.

Shadow Lodge

you could do the standard Rogue 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster X. less MAD. even if you dump Cha, the extra skill points from the increased Int can make you a better face later on the the bonus that charisma initially gives you.

but if you are dead set on sorcerer, i would suggest elemental for blasts (Free energy substitution), or Fey for "Stunning" and charm.

Silver Crusade

Well, until you said blasting magic, my first thought was just go straight bard.

I've got a bard who took the Vagabond Child trait to make Disable Device into a class skill, and bards already get other rogue-like skills like Stealth and Sleight of Hand as class skills. I haven't played him yet, but he'll be mostly an archer in battle, with the occasional support spells and bardic performance to aid the rest of the group. Between battles, he can be the party healer, talker, and skill monkey. Pretty much the only thing this character won't be able to do is tank - he has 14 str and a longsword, but all his feats will go into archery, and he'll never have the HP and AC to keep up with a real tank.

Bard will do just with blasting magic if an exception is made to the APG/CRB only rule: Sound Strike.

At 8th level, you can spend a round of performance and a standard action to do 8d8+8*CharismaMod. Note that it A) requires a touch attack and B) has Fortitude Half. It may or may not also be affected by damage reduction, but this is not the place for that discussion.

Any bard with Versatile Performance will be a better skill monkey than a rogue, and most bards without it will be as good or better. So if that's the primary reason you want rogue, you might want to consider bard.

Silver Crusade

All feats will be going for Archery, as per the deal I've struck with my DM re: giant returning starknife.

Bard was the other option I was thinking of going for as opposed to Rogue. Looks like that's the best, then. As for blasting, any other suggestions? (no exceptions on the books)

Hmm, bards have a few blasting spells, but they can't do it all day long. I figured if he was fine with the giant starknife, he'd be amenable to one exception! But I don't recall them having enough from APG and CRB only to make it worthwhile. Ultimate Magic is the one that gave all sorts of attack spells to bards.

In that case, I'd say just go wizard with a level or two of rogue. Maybe even 2 levels of bard instead of rogue, just to pick up versatile performance and use your skill points from being Int based to keep a few of the Perform skills maxed (3 skills for the price of one!)

Although with archery feats, you don't really need blasting. In which case go bard :D

Detective Bard or some other variant that grants you the ability to disarm magical traps.

Bards are better than their reputation when it comes to filling the role of the arcanist, and bring lots of other skills to the table.

Silver Crusade

The more I think of it, the more a Bard sounds interesting. I've never played one before, and I kind of figured I'd just be dumped into the party generalist category...I'm the most experienced player in the group, so I wanted to do something a bit more complex, with a crazy amount of skills to "show the others how to play", as it were, without making them obsolete.

I think I'd be fine with the starknife, and take the roll of buffer. Thinking of going the Magician route, just to grab the blast spells from there.

What race would be best suited for this roll? Obviously Humans for the +1 spell BS (stupid humans, taking the cake), but I want something a bit less boring.

Halflings, Aasimar, Half-Elves, and Half-Orcs all make excellent Bards.

Humans are my favorite race, so I have a bit of a biased perspective there, but a half elf/orc will do just fine. I am personally leaning a little more towards half orc because they seem more inclined to be the blaster type to me.

If you want to be a blaster/ Skill monkey, go Mindchemist Alchemist. You get lots of bombs for good blastiness, and gaining double your intelligence bonus on knowledges is fantastic. Just one rank in each should take care of you for quite a while, and you can take ranks in maybe 6-10 other skills.

Silver Crusade

Awesome. Thanks for the advice, everyone.

I second the Arcane Trickster they are a blast. Although you can be a magus rogue and still end up in arcant trickster about the same time as wiz or sorce I think you can also go bard/rogue and then Arcane Trickster. The best thing about arcane trickster you never lose out on spells or sneak attack die.

Liberty's Edge

Too many option. Really, my advice would be Urban Ranger/Alchemist. You'll get trapfinding, have access to all martial weapons and medium armor, have a selection of potions and poisons available for use and bombs to fill that nitch of blasting fun. 2 big bonuses for using the Alchemist 1) high intelligence scores means plenty of skill points and 2) Poison Immunity at lvl 10. This is awesome for a rogue-type.

Ofcourse if arcane trickster were my goal, I'd probably go with Ninja/Magus. It's a little MAD, but, would be awesome! Ingrediants 2 lvl ninja - access to ki pool and ninja trick - allows you to take extra ninja trick later, 5 lvl magus - access to arcane pool and ability to add shock,frost or fire to your weapon. If that weapon is already +1, add 2 of the aforementioned abilities at once. Arcane Trickster - Epic fun. Granted some people may call you a Naruto Fanboy, but thats for another thread.

with what you are asking for I like the sandman bard a bit better myself, but that's just me.

IF you hadn't limited it the way you did I would have offered the following:

Human Seeker Sorcerer Crossblooded Sage/Umbral Bloodline.

Trapfinding, hide in shadows, int based caster, extra spells from being human helps with the lack of spells from being crossblooded, and you can pick up Iron will to help with the -2 to will saves if you want.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

One thing to bear in mind for Trapfinding is there are two parts to it -- one is that the rogue gets a bonus for half class level (minimum 1) to Perception checks to find traps and to all Disable Device checks. The other part is that you are able to use Disable Device on magical traps.

If you consider bard archetypes from the APG--archivist, detective, and sandman--these only grant the ability to use Disable Device on magical traps, if I am reading them correctly. They do not give you the trapfinding skill bonuses (but interestingly, as a spellcaster, you could also try to dispel the magical traps instead, at least once you're high enough level). So if the skill bonuses are important to you (even if you don't get them very high), you will want to stick with your rogue multiclass idea (or urban ranger multiclass, as that archetype does get full-on trapfinding).

(The only bard archetype that gives full on trapfinding IIRC is archeologist which is in Ultimate Magic and thus off limits.)

NOW, if what I wanted to play a sneaky character but who was also primarily a spellcaster, and I did not care about sneak attack (which the OP said), what I would do is play a single class sorcerer with the Shadow bloodline. Assuming everything in the APG is up for grabs, I would see if I could take the regional trait Vagabond Child to get Disable Device as a class skill and the religion trait Eyes and Ears of the City to get Perception as a class skill (the Shadow bloodline gives you Stealth). That way I can focus totally on building my spellcasting without having to sacrifice caster level, but I also have the skills I want to use. I won't be able to use Disable Device to disarm magical traps, but as a full spellcaster I should be able to find some other solutions to the magical trap problem (although frankly at low levels, I might be screwed in that department). I could also dip into 1 level of rogue to get trapfinding, a die of sneak attack, and a boatload of class levels at a sacrifice of -1 caster level and getting all my sorcerer goodies one level higher.

If I wanted to be good with sneak attack and wanted trapfinding--including the bonuses--from the very get go at level 1, I'd take rogue and then multiclass into Arcane Trickster as many suggest, using whatever caster class floats my boat the most. Arcane Trickster has some very fun stuff to offer.

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