Or the name of (Insert cover job here) Such As Tailor, Steward, or Blacksmith.
or even the amulet of natural armor, which mimics barkskin.
it's not a simulation of reality. here are some things that prove it,
owls and bears can crossbreed
dragons can fly
high level monks can jump from planet to planet
a human with the right training can kick down 10 foot thick adamantine castle walls like they were made of rice paper.
wizards can take a handful of sulfur and bat feces and turn it to a 40 foot diameter globe of fire from over 600 feet away.
clerics can bring the dead back to life by throwing diamond dust at them, that same diamond dust solves a lot of other problems.
How about actually enforcing the caster level as a requirement instead of simply going 'meh, it's meaningless'. And then don't let caster level be something you can bypass. That would negate a bunch of the ability to abuse crafting right there.
that actually sounds workable. it's makes "doubled" wealth a lot less powerful because now, you cannot exceed your caster level. it pretty much negates the whole issue.
but the crafting feats aren't giving you +100% ever. there are so many items not accounted for with that first feat. and considering that there is an invisible cap on the coinage you will find adventuring, and factoring both that not every item is wondrous and that consumables are not in infinitely self replinishing supply, your gold isn't +100% for one feat. people should stop handwaving the pocket change, all that pocket change expended does eventually add up. the invisibile cap is based on how long that PC adventures.
as you get higher level and progress further, oppurtunities to craft diminish. at least allow newly joining high level characters to benefit from these same windows they would have had if they were PCs the whole time. by denying them access to these windows, or even saying they spontaneously fall from the sky and magically join the party as if in DQ9, you are removing the benefits of the crafting feats.
if a party of 4 10th level PCs had a totaled year to craft over the course of 10 levels, at least give the new 10th level guy the 4 months of crafting time you gave the previous PCs before the current adventure and let them go together.
The Craft feats let you have more choice after character generation. Unless you never gain levels and more treasure during the game, someone with a crafting feat can take what he finds in dungeons and shops and turn it into what he wants. Non-crafters are stuck with luck of the draw.
i guess there is that, but the further in the campaign you generate the character, the less that benefit applies. at least with the discount, you can get back part of what you lost. not every character stays in the party since the campaign's beginning. a lot of things can change the roster.
but the benefit of choosing your equipment ala carte is redundant when you start higher level because wealth by level already lets you choose your equipment ala carte anyway. so the only remaining benefit is the discount, which is what those who take the feat are usually after. and if all your gear is crafted, who is to say you won't craft for your allies for the material cost?
or just use the half price method and have a DM with enough awareness to have decent judgement that doesn't involve penalizing the crafter.
a lot of "Broken" Cohorts break the rules. a Cohort is a heroic NPC, meaning they have the elite array and NPC wealth. guess leadership isn't too broken. and they are always a minimum of 2 or more levels below the party. a cohort is no stronger than a sentient animal companion.
a lot of "Broken" eidolons are also the result of broken or misread rules. or the summoner gimping himself to beef up the eidolon.
crafting may give more than an AP provides, but not everyone plays with APs. some DMs actually write thier own campaigns.
the extra starting gold is not "Doubled", it's close, and before you say consumables are replaced by pocket change. all that pocket change adds up, and your wealth is based on a percentage of your findings. gold doesn't magically replace itself either, you have to find it and save it long enough to afford the item. you can create eligible items for half price if you have the feats. eleigible items doesn't mean every item. and some items have costs beyond the magical enhancements.
not every monster has treasure, and even if destroyed or stolen doesn't count towards your combat ability, but it does count towards the total treasure you have accumulated. and finding treasure requires you to adventure. so doubling your money in pure equipment isn't always the best idea. spell components cost money too. a campaign has an eventual ending. you can't always create sidequests for more wealth. so consumables aren't as easily replacable as one thinks.
i guess you got me there, but that one CR14 foe still dies in one round, but now, it has a severe disadvantage called action economy. at least the mooks could use guns, alchemical items, and difficult terrain en masse to freak out the party.
how about 16 CR 1/2s targetting the same PC? each lobbing cheap alchemical items at the PCs? it's a CR10 encounter that may badly injure a 10th level PC or few. you can double it for +2 CR or quadruple it for +4.
as said by Khrys, crafting for commision on an NPC's Behalf is DM Fiat. the DM created the Demand. and ignored a specific rule. it is usually the PCs who commision an npc to craft the item.
who knows, a few levels later, that crafter the PCs have commissioned might join the party when they are higher level and he deems it appropriate. crafting some of his own stuff with his profits.
not every encounter is against one foe of CR=APL. usually, it's multiple smaller monsters that make it up. and classed humanoids are assumed to be more common than most high level monsters.
APL 10 is rarely placed against 1 CR10 foe that can die in one round. try (Per PC) 4 CR6 or 8 CR 4 for an appropriate APL10 encounter. CR 6 and CR 4 opponents don't have 100+ health.
due to all your analisys theoretical numbers, you must have forgotten the key moments where your life was saved by a fireball. most theoretical stuff falls apart in practice.
it's a cooperative game, not an individualist game. the guy who has his "Extra" crafting time is compensating for the PCs who looted the corpse of ther dead comrade and have his stuff split 3 ways. while new guy got an extra 32,000. the new guy would probably be denied a share. the reason i say extra 32,000 is because that is the best likely benefit you get out of CWI. even if you don't buy weapons and armor, you still need rings, and consumables like wands, potions, components, and scrolls. and those are consumable. even as a caster.
Why is a 10th level crafter close to campaign end? You say that like there's some sort of rule on how high a character can be or how long a campaign goes on. What if the campaign is starting at level 10? Or level 14? Or level 20 and everyone's epic characters?
in my personal home game experience, 10th level is usually either campaign end or close to it. it's extremely rare we exceed 15th, 14th is usually our final adventure of the camapaign.
the caster also needs ranks in spellcraft.
and i find it to be stupid for a fighter to dump intellegence or a wizard to dump strength. the low int fighter hammered himself in the groin for an extra bonus to hit and damage, and the wizard chose to give up carrying capacity to get +1 to DCs.
everything has weight, and a fighter who dumps intellegence cut himself off from half the list of combat feats.
the crafter also blew feats on crafting, and because 10th level is pretty close to campaign end, he lost crafting time he could have had if he had joined a lot earlier, i'm just giving it back. the other PCs had plenty of crafting time.
skill points don't have as much meaning as feats, and the rogue could have just as easily placed those ranks in Craft (Tailoring) and gone the master craftsman route. i'm sure tailoring can cover most slots, with the exception of rings, armor and eyes.
the fighter would be gaining XP and looting treasure in the Arena, that would be an explanation of his level and gear.
PCs don't spontaneously fall from the sky and magically join the party. Pathfinder is NOT Dragon Quest IX, Sentinels of the Starry Skies.
in DQ9, you have a feature in a specific tavern where you can pull the exact ally you need from behind the curtains, which the exact customization you desire. essentially, the Exact PC you need for your group in a sense, magically falls from the sky and joins your party.
lets look at pathfinder, a lot of people try to replicate this feature, but every PC has a backstory. and the backstories don't always need to be connected.
if you want PCs to fall from the sky and magically come into existance without a properly established backstory or ties. get yourself a DS and play Dragon Quest IX, Sentinels of the Starry skies. because pathfinder, PCs aren't assumed to spontaneously fall from the sky and magically become allies. a character is a character. they have previous experiences too.
not all adventurers have the same amount of adventuring time. the New PC could be a veteran adventure who adventured when the other PCs were still "children". and could have crafted during his hiatus as an NPC (Crafting as a previously unexplained level 10 NPC in the background When the others were like level 5) and joined the 10th level PCs at 10th level.
the reason those other characters don't have "history" is because thier "history" was adventuring and gaining levels. a level 10 character doesn't just fall from the sky. they were likely a former adventurer who crafted during thier downtime. it's not like Dragon Quest IX where PCs spontaneously fall from the sky and magically join your party. not every PC has the same history or comes from the same enviroment. and not every new PC is a first level penniless beggar.
i doubt an CWI can do all of that at once. sounds like hyperbole. and when you factor items outside of your feats. those count full price and not half. you need a lot more than just CWI.
magic item prices are quadratic and the bonuses are linear. once you have the "Big 6" anything else is just icing on the cake. usually, halving the price of a "Big 6" item affords you somewhere around an extra +1 bonus with that item.
is the few extra +1's really a problem? those items can be sundered, stolen, disjunctioned, or even suppressed.
this is basically all we are fighting over, a few extra +1's.
Buri said it better than i could. other drawbacks to cohorts include...
having to divide more shares of the loot. this cuts down either all PCs, or the guy with the cohort, depending on the party.
the cohort, being a Heroic NPC; is built with NPC wealth and the elite array. this makes them a lot squishier
your leadership score is penalized for each dead cohort, and cohorts start at the level which you attract them. the maximum being affected by your total leadership score.
Cohorts are statted and Geared As Heroic NPCs, meaning they Get NPC wealth and Elite Array for attributes. that balances out thier crafting if you add the fact that any extra gear is hand me downs from thier PC masters. they die easy. and it's hard for them to Get leadership scores at PC aptitudes because of thier "Reduced" Attributes. and extra cohorts gets wonky.
such a crafting guild set up by Cohort Chains would be a major target for random adventuring parties, assassin's guilds, paranoid armies, or greedy dragons.
attracting cohorts also takes multiple months and requires access to civilization. most individuals would be too frightened to join such a "Heretical" organization that might as well draw unwanted attention from any army.
and it's up to the DM whether or not a cohort is acceptable. whether he creates it himself or allows you to do so. the DM may always veto stuff he sees as unbalancing. there are only so many "Cohorts" and the followers would be slain en masse by the first few paranoid armies that spot them. with Few Exceptions, most of the "Cohorts" in the chain could be slain fairly easily by a greedy dragon.
Edit; Cohorts and Followers aren't mindless drones, they are living creatures too.
that is why we have this thing called DM Discretion!
a player taking craft feats to get some extra cash and make stuff for the party is fine, but using Craft (Coins) to triple your wealth or even abusing relative prices to get 1,000,000 gold pieces worth of gear for only 4 gold pieces are abuses that a DM must stop. for it is a DM who has the final say on the rules.
it's okay to craft some items for the party and craft items for yourself. but even i have the common sense to dissalow abuses like this.
a DM is not a mindless robot, they are just as sentient as any of us. that sentience also comes with this thing called judgement. it's all you need. and i am not talking about a game mechanic.
Dennis Baker wrote:
the NPC gallery may as well be another bestiary. and those NPCs, despite what thier CR Says, are nastier than similarly leveled monsters themselves. especially PC classed ones.
but who is going to have the funds to afford the watch? merchants and nobles might already have them and not bother. other Adventurers would rather keep the funds, and most peasants can't afford them with thier silver piece a day without going multiple years into debt.
this is one point where it makes sense to not count that piece of wealth. but what benefit is there to starting higher level with crafting feats?
Desireable Items! starting gold lets you get the gear you want Ala Carte
Custom items. with a portion of my starting gold (even at full price), i can commission someone else to make the item for me
Increased Wealth? you sacrificed a feat you could have expended optimizing your primary focus so you could have some extra cash. the feat can't be revoked, but the items can be stolen, sundered, or suppressed. and item creation feats don't exactly double your wealth unless you have multiple. unless you literally are loaded with one type of item. even with CWI, you still have to aquire rings, wands, potions, scrolls, and maybe magical weapons or armor. plus, for the latter two, you have to aquire the masterwork weapons or armor you use as the base. i'd rate it as maybe +50% wealth at best. considering how much a group spends on utilitarian items to be split amongs them. i don't see this doubled wealth thing working as well as people think. and crafting already has a cost in sacrificed downtime that could be spent establishing connections, making social contracts, and similar stuff.
why must we argue so much about wealth. if a theoretical PC theoretically spends 100 gold pieces on a theoretical masterwork pocket watch. do we count the pocket watch against his theoretical wealth? i beleive we shouldn't because all it does is tell time, which is a useless function when adventuring. if that is the case, than a smart PC wouldn't dare buy that pocket watch. despite it being a badass accessory.