protection from evil, 3 bonus: deflection, resistance and immunity to mental control.
8000 deflection bonus (2^2x2000)
4000 resistance bonus (2^2x1000) +50% (Multiple different abilities)= 6000
4000 immune to mental control (caster level:1 x spell level:1 x 2000 x 2, minutes) +50% (Multiple different abilities)= 6000
8000+6000+6000= 20000.
work only whit vs evil (good, evil, caotic, legal) 16000/4= 5000.
ok?
craft this item is 2500, buy this item is 5000?
I wanted to make several of these for a game where vampires and other mental dominating creatures were common. The martial types wanted it so they could protect themselves. The DM felt unlimited uses per day was too powerful and knocked it down to 3x per day. Which might as well be unlimited for how many times they actually need it. I made them into head pieces so that I didn't need to pay the extra multiple for unspotted items.
Which I think you did not take into account. Yours appears to be without a slot.
adrem wrote: work only whit vs evil (good, evil, caotic, legal) 16000/4= 5000. Not sure what you are trying to say. Where does this divisor come from?
I believe he's saying that all the item's properties only work against evil characters/creatures. For example, if a chaotic neutral spellcaster tried to mind control the user of the item, they could do it, since the immunity would only apply to evil mind controllers.
Not sure about the divisor. It seems reasonable that the item's cost should go down since the effectiveness does (it now only affects roughly 1/3 people or things in the world). I'd say a divisor of 3 makes more sense than 4 though.
Brinaku wrote: I believe he's saying that all the item's properties only work against evil characters/creatures. For example, if a chaotic neutral spellcaster tried to mind control the user of the item, they could do it, since the immunity would only apply to evil mind controllers.
Not sure about the divisor. It seems reasonable that the item's cost should go down since the effectiveness does (it now only affects roughly 1/3 people or things in the world). I'd say a divisor of 3 makes more sense than 4 though.
exatly! yes probably a divisor of 3 is the better choice..
all animal are neutral and this item don't work whit neutral, caotic, legal or good..
Protection from evil only works against evil in the first place - you can't get a discount for then saying it doesn't work against other types. Protection from good/chaotic/lawful are separate spells.
In any case the only RAW reductions allowed are for if the item requires skill use (10%) or if it only works for a specific class or alignment (30%).
I just made an item that cast Prot from evil 3x per day so my calculation was
Command word 1x1x1800
Charges per day 1800/(5/3)=1080. So crafting these was super cheap. The spell only lasted for 1 minute per charge but most of the time that was perfectly good.
ZomB wrote: Protection from evil only works against evil in the first place - you can't get a discount for then saying it doesn't work against other types. Protection from good/chaotic/lawful are separate spells.
In any case the only RAW reductions allowed are for if the item requires skill use (10%) or if it only works for a specific class or alignment (30%).
ok, in this point of view, protection vs evil is only a first level spell,
and cost
1x1x2000x2= 4000. craft it cost 2000. whit 30% discount cost 1400
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adrem wrote: ZomB wrote: Protection from evil only works against evil in the first place - you can't get a discount for then saying it doesn't work against other types. Protection from good/chaotic/lawful are separate spells.
In any case the only RAW reductions allowed are for if the item requires skill use (10%) or if it only works for a specific class or alignment (30%).
ok, in this point of view, protection vs evil is only a first level spell,
and cost
1x1x2000x2= 4000. craft it cost 2000. whit 30% discount cost 1400 I think ZomB is missing part of the point: The OP wants a magic item that duplicates most of the abilities of the protection from evil spell as a continuous effect.
The continuous bonuses on Table 15-29 used to calculate the market price of magic items do not have restrictions built in. By my estimate:
(+2 deflection bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 2,000 gp x .7 = 5,600 gp x 1.5 = 8,400 gp
(+2 resistance bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 1,000 gp x .7 = 2,800 gp x 1.5 = 4,200 gp
(immune to evil possession/mental control*) 40,000 gp x .7 = 28,000 gp
Total Market Price = 8,400 gp + 4,200 gp + 28,000 gp = 40,600 gp
Note that a GM may wish to provide a larger cost savings for only working against evil opponents. 50% instead of 30% seems reasonable, because any alignment can use the item and evil opponents are pretty common. The lower-priced version would be 29,000 gp.
*-based on comparison to ring of freedom of movement; mental control vs. physical control
Dragonchess Player wrote: adrem wrote: ZomB wrote: Protection from evil only works against evil in the first place - you can't get a discount for then saying it doesn't work against other types. Protection from good/chaotic/lawful are separate spells.
In any case the only RAW reductions allowed are for if the item requires skill use (10%) or if it only works for a specific class or alignment (30%).
ok, in this point of view, protection vs evil is only a first level spell,
and cost
1x1x2000x2= 4000. craft it cost 2000. whit 30% discount cost 1400 I think ZomB is missing part of the point: The OP wants a magic item that duplicates most of the abilities of the protection from evil spell as a continuous effect.
The continuous bonuses on Table 15-29 used to calculate the market price of magic items do not have restrictions built in. By my estimate:
(+2 deflection bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 2,000 gp x .7 = 5,600 gp x 1.5 = 8,400 gp
(+2 resistance bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 1,000 gp x .7 = 2,800 gp x 1.5 = 4,200 gp
(immune to evil possession/mental control*) 40,000 gp x .7 = 28,000 gp
Total Market Price = 8,400 gp + 4,200 gp + 28,000 gp = 40,600 gp
Note that a GM may wish to provide a larger cost savings for only working against evil opponents. 50% instead of 30% seems reasonable, because any alignment can use the item and evil opponents are pretty common. The lower-priced version would be 29,000 gp.
*-based on comparison to ring of freedom of movement; mental control vs. physical control why should u get a cost savings ? the item only works Vs. the evil alignment , which is the point of making it .
The cost of an item that grants protection from everything (chaos/evil/good/law) would cost...
Caster Level (1) x Spell Level (1) x 2000 gp (continuous)
Spell Duration Modifier (1 minute/level) = x2
Cost per Protection = 4,000 gp.
For 4 protections, you have to add each additional protection at 1.5.
So for a protection from evil = 4,000 gp
So for a protection from good/evil = 10,000 gp
So for a protection from chaos/good/evil = 16,000 gp
And finally a protection from chaos/evil/good/law = 22,000 gp.
There is no reason to reduce the cost by 30% because unlike items that use those special cost reductions (such as the holy avenger), there is no thematically appropriate thing going on here. A GM should only allow the 30% cost reduction (which was not part of the core rules in 3.5 mind you) if it fits the theme, such as a protection from evil amulet only wearable by good creatures.
The only truly relevant thing is the protection from evil mind control. That is already achievable in Pathfinder rules: a clear spindle ioun stone acting as resonance in a wayfinder. I believe it is even PFS legal.
The resistance/deflection boni are not all that relevant to a typical hero, who would want a real cloak and real ring with real +s.
Ashiel wrote: The cost of an item that grants protection from everything (chaos/evil/good/law) would cost...
Caster Level (1) x Spell Level (1) x 2000 gp (continuous)
Spell Duration Modifier (1 minute/level) = x2
Cost per Protection = 4,000 gp.
As implied by the OP you cannot just use the spell formula for continuous items when the effect contains bonuses that are already covered by other formula.
The Deflection bonus uses the AC Bonus (deflection) formula
The Saving throw bonus uses the Save bonus (resistance) formula
The "immune to mental control" thing is the only part of the spell that might be subject to the spell formula - and as pointed out above you need to look if there are similar items already on which to base the cost.
Quote: There is no reason to reduce the cost by 30% because unlike items that use those special cost reductions (such as the holy avenger), there is no thematically appropriate thing going on here. A GM should only allow the 30% cost reduction (which was not part of the core rules in 3.5 mind you) if it fits the theme, such as a protection from evil amulet only wearable by good creatures. Agreed, and changes from 3.5 are often relevant in the rules forum.
Also it states on the formula table that if an item is continuous it is considered to have 50 charges for the purpose of determining costs.
Protection from evil
spell level 1
caster level 1
1*1*1800/(5/50) = 1*1*1800*(50/5) = 1*1*1800*10 = 18000gp
So for an item to provide a continuous Prot. evil it would cost 18000gp. Each additional protection would be 1.5 that cost if applied to the same item which is 27000gp.
Having 4 different protections would be 27000gp*3 + 18000gp = 99000gp.
EDIT: And this is the formula you would use regardless of it applying bonuses covered by other formula's. The formula you are using is making a magic effect/spell continuous on an item.
Khrysaor wrote: Also it states on the formula table that if an item is continuous it is considered to have 50 charges for the purpose of determining costs. That formula is for the cost of any material components required.
Dragonchess Player wrote: By my estimate:
(+2 deflection bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 2,000 gp x .7 = 5,600 gp x 1.5 = 8,400 gp
(+2 resistance bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 1,000 gp x .7 = 2,800 gp x 1.5 = 4,200 gp
(immune to evil possession/mental control*) 40,000 gp x .7 = 28,000 gp
Total Market Price = 8,400 gp + 4,200 gp + 28,000 gp = 40,600 gp
wrong cost.
I prefere to pay for all.
+2 deflection base (vs all): 2x2x2000= 8000
+2 resistance base (vs all): 2x2x1000= 4000x1,5= 6000
immune to mental control by evil creature whitout deflection or resistance bonus (only one protection evil effect): 1x1x2000x2= 4000x1,5= 6000.
total 8000+6000+6000= 20000, craft it is 10000.
I dont understand why you compare protect evil (inc lev 1) whit freedom of movement (inc level 4) !!!!!
ZomB wrote: Khrysaor wrote: Also it states on the formula table that if an item is continuous it is considered to have 50 charges for the purpose of determining costs. That formula is for the cost of any material components required. *sigh*
My bad. I read the wrong one on the table.
Formula for continuous spell effect is;
spell level*caster level*2000gp.
With an adendum at the bottom of the chart with additional costs varying by spell duration. 1 min/level is costs x2 so yes you were right in the belief that its 4000gp for a continuous protection from evil and would be 6000gp for an additional protection spell of equal levels.
This value is still correct as all of your bonuses will only apply vs the alignment chosen and have no effect vs any other alignment. Whereas the bonuses listed by the OP will apply vs any alignment. Also note there is another bonus from the spell that doesn't allow summoned creatures of the alignment chosen to even touch your character. You still need this item to be a slotted item for one of your body parts applicable for magic items or incur another times 2 cost for a slotless item.
I was also mistaken with the charge value in the other reference which should be treated as 100 not 50 for continuous/unlimited charged with a command word activated item. So my values for the formulas above should be double what is listed.
what about the protection vs Summoned monster?
Btw i would never let my players use such an item :)
BEGS wrote: what about the protection vs Summoned monster?
Btw i would never let my players use such an item :)
It wasn't listed in the OP for bonuses for the spell. It's your choice to disallow any item you choose in your campaigns but the OP was asking about pricing for this item that is supported by RAW.
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adrem wrote: Dragonchess Player wrote: By my estimate:
(+2 deflection bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 2,000 gp x .7 = 5,600 gp x 1.5 = 8,400 gp
(+2 resistance bonus vs. evil) 2 x 2 x 1,000 gp x .7 = 2,800 gp x 1.5 = 4,200 gp
(immune to evil possession/mental control*) 40,000 gp x .7 = 28,000 gp
Total Market Price = 8,400 gp + 4,200 gp + 28,000 gp = 40,600 gp
wrong cost.
I prefere to pay for all.
+2 deflection base (vs all): 2x2x2000= 8000
+2 resistance base (vs all): 2x2x1000= 4000x1,5= 6000
immune to mental control by evil creature whitout deflection or resistance bonus (only one protection evil effect): 1x1x2000x2= 4000x1,5= 6000.
total 8000+6000+6000= 20000, craft it is 10000.
I dont understand why you compare protect evil (inc lev 1) whit freedom of movement (inc level 4) !!!!! In your opinion. Core Rulebook pg. 549 states: "Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magical items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide." It also states: "Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly guage the exact differences between items. The price of the magic item may be modified based on actual worth."
There is no "immunity to mental control" line on Table 15-29. The closest equivalent item to use as a comparison is a ring of freedom of movement (immune to all effects that impede movement, such as entanglements, grapples, etc.); note that a ring of freedom of movement doesn't follow the formula on Table 15-29, either (if it did, it would be 4 x 7 x 2,000 gp x 1.5 = 84,000 gp).
The "only applies vs. evil" also needs to be factored in. The GM can either rule that's equivalent to the Item Requires Specific Class or Alignment to Use limitation (30% reduction; This is the 40,600 gp price I gave above) or decide that larger cost break is in order to capture the actual worth (IMO, a 50% reduction might be in order, since evil creatures make up at least 1/3 to 1/2 of opponents in most campaigns; this is the 29,000 gp price I gave above).
Your pricing does not reflect the actual worth of the effect. Because the immunity to mental control includes "enchantment [charm] effects and enchantment [compulsion] effects," the character cannot be subject to command, hold person, sleep, etc. Immunity to all forms of mental control is a huge benefit; the major limitation on the spell (why it is 1st-level) is duration and that it only applies vs. mental control from evil (or chaotic, etc. for the other versions) opponents. Actually, the spell is pretty powerful for a 1st-level spell, but that's a different argument.
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Stabatha wrote: Dragonchess Player wrote: The continuous bonuses on Table 15-29 used to calculate the market price of magic items do not have restrictions built in. why should u get a cost savings ? the item only works Vs. the evil alignment , which is the point of making it . Read the sentence above.
Why is everyone coming up with arbitrary savings and formulae for this? The formula is already listed in the book and is entirely fair.
Caster level*spell level*2000gp*(appropriate modifier based off of spell duration)
For protection from evil/good/chaos/law;
Caster level 1
Spell level 1
Modifier for 1 min/level = *2
1*1*2000gp*2 = 4000gp
Adding multiple effects to a single item - apply the most expensive enchantment and add the lesser enchantments at 1.5 times the calculated value. In this case, 6000gp for the other 3 beyond the first. With all 4 variations the cost is 4000gp + (3*6000gp) = 22000gp. Even with all of these enchantments a true neutral creature bypasses everything.
Ring of protection +2 = +2 deflection bonus = 8000gp. Good vs any alignment.
Cloak of resistance +2 = +2 saves = 4000gp. Good vs any alignment.
The immunity to a limited type of attacks from certain alignments and immunity to summoned creatures until you attack or force the barrier on them, are comparable to a sanctuary spell. Sanctuary giving immunity to any form of attacks and the creature loses its action if it fails a will save.
1*1*2000gp*4 = 8000gp
Totaling 8000gp+8000gp+4000gp=20000gp and is effective vs everyone
Vs. a 22000gp item that still leaves you vulnerable to one alignment.
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Khrysaor wrote: Why is everyone coming up with arbitrary savings and formulae for this? The formula is already listed in the book and is entirely fair. See Core Rulebook pg. 549: "Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magical items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide." It also states (pg. 549-550): "Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly guage the exact differences between items. The price of the magic item may be modified based on actual worth."
Ignoring that text and blindly applying Table 15-29 leads to use activated true strike items for 2,000 gp (+20 to your first attack roll each and every round) and other silliness.
Dragonchess Player wrote: Khrysaor wrote: Why is everyone coming up with arbitrary savings and formulae for this? The formula is already listed in the book and is entirely fair. See Core Rulebook pg. 549: "Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magical items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to compare the new item to an item that is already priced, using that price as a guide." It also states (pg. 549-550): "Not all items adhere to these formulas. First and foremost, these few formulas aren't enough to truly guage the exact differences between items. The price of the magic item may be modified based on actual worth."
Ignoring that text and blindly applying Table 15-29 leads to use activated true strike items for 2,000 gp (+20 to your first attack roll each and every round) and other silliness. And yet I've cited examples comparable to the item listed that are cheaper and provide better benefits. You're trying to over complicate this by insisting there's more to this than meets the eye. The benefits provided by the OP aren't so beneficial that they should be up for extra consideration. The quote you're citing is for things like boots of expeditious retreat, that by RAW are valued at 4000gp and provide a greater benefit than an existing item.
Boots of springing and striding are 5500gp and give you +10 movement and a +5 bonus to jump checks. It's also noted that for every +10 movement above 30 a character gains an inherent +4 bonus to acrobatics. This is an overall +9 bonus on jump checks, +4 to other acrobatics checks, and + 10 to base movement.
Boots of expeditious retreat give a +12 to any acrobatics check including jump checks and a +30 to base movement.
This is all based off of of having a base speed of 30 feet to start with but with less or more the effectiveness is the same and yet thoe boots of expeditious retreat are 1500gp cheaper and have less prerequisites to create which mean they need modified rules for value.
I didn't blindly apply anything. I gave examples and consideration to other items. And your true strike idea is absurd as per the rules too. There is a note at the bottom for the formula about spell duration affecting cost. The closest rating to this spell is 1 round/level being a times 4 multiplier. Since the duration of true strike is that it must be used before the end of your next turn it would be closer to an instantaneous duration and not a possibility for being made continuous. A use activated command word charged item is the formula you would use here.
Khrysaor wrote: Why is everyone coming up with arbitrary savings and formulae for this? The formula is already listed in the book and is entirely fair.
Caster level*spell level*2000gp*(appropriate modifier based off of spell duration)
For protection from evil/good/chaos/law;
Caster level 1
Spell level 1
Modifier for 1 min/level = *2
1*1*2000gp*2 = 4000gp
Adding multiple effects to a single item - apply the most expensive enchantment and add the lesser enchantments at 1.5 times the calculated value. In this case, 6000gp for the other 3 beyond the first. With all 4 variations the cost is 4000gp + (3*6000gp) = 22000gp. Even with all of these enchantments a true neutral creature bypasses everything.
Ring of protection +2 = +2 deflection bonus = 8000gp. Good vs any alignment.
Cloak of resistance +2 = +2 saves = 4000gp. Good vs any alignment.
The immunity to a limited type of attacks from certain alignments and immunity to summoned creatures until you attack or force the barrier on them, are comparable to a sanctuary spell. Sanctuary giving immunity to any form of attacks and the creature loses its action if it fails a will save.
1*1*2000gp*4 = 8000gp
Totaling 8000gp+8000gp+4000gp=20000gp and is effective vs everyone
Vs. a 22000gp item that still leaves you vulnerable to one alignment.
My bad. I forgot to add the 1.5 modifier on multiple enchants and its too late to edit that post. Anyway....
8000gp for the deflection
6000gp for the saves
12000gp for the sanctuary
26000gp total which is still comparable to 22000gp for protection evil/good/chaos/law. I think the funniest part of this is having a continuous sanctuary on you. If someone ever fails that will save they can never attack you again. Ever. Unless you're foolish enough to attack them and break the enchantment.
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Khrysaor wrote: And yet I've cited examples comparable to the item listed that are cheaper and provide better benefits. You're trying to over complicate this by insisting there's more to this than meets the eye. The benefits provided by the OP aren't so beneficial that they should be up for extra consideration. The quote you're citing is for things like boots of expeditious retreat, that by RAW are valued at 4000gp and provide a greater benefit than an existing item. 1) There is no published item that grants continous sanctuary to provide a price comparison, either. Besides, it's not as if a DC 11 Will save (remember, saving throws from magic item effects always use the minimum needed casting stat for a spell of that level; DC 10 + 1 for spell level + 0 for 11 Wis) is really worth it (no it is not "better benefits"). The protection from evil effect is complete immunity to mental control (no save to bypass); again, the closest equivalent magic item is a ring of freedom of movement.
2) The quote is a general rule. There is no text saying "only applies for this and that, but doesn't apply for the other." You disagree with my interpretation, fine. But you have not provided any analysis showing that a cost comparison to a similar item for non-standard magic item is unwaranted. All you have done is play a shell game by using other (non-standard magic item) spell effects to "prove" that using the spell effects formula is "balanced." All you have done is show the deviation within that formula; you have not put it in any greater context.
You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was raised to 20,000 gp.
Again, complete immunity to mental control is a powerful effect. The magic item pricing should take that into consideration.
Dragonchess Player wrote:
You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was...
totally wrong.
invisibility:
2x3x2000(continuous)x2 (1minute/level) = 24000 gp.
ring of invisibility cost 20000, lesser than 24000 gp.
If you house rule all the game because you think that protect evil is a powerful spell.. is your problem.
Dragonchess Player wrote: Khrysaor wrote: And yet I've cited examples comparable to the item listed that are cheaper and provide better benefits. You're trying to over complicate this by insisting there's more to this than meets the eye. The benefits provided by the OP aren't so beneficial that they should be up for extra consideration. The quote you're citing is for things like boots of expeditious retreat, that by RAW are valued at 4000gp and provide a greater benefit than an existing item. 1) There is no published item that grants continous sanctuary to provide a price comparison, either. Besides, it's not as if a DC 11 Will save (remember, saving throws from magic item effects always use the minimum needed casting stat for a spell of that level; DC 10 + 1 for spell level + 0 for 11 Wis) is really worth it (no it is not "better benefits"). The protection from evil effect is complete immunity to mental control (no save to bypass); again, the closest equivalent magic item is a ring of freedom of movement.
2) The quote is a general rule. There is no text saying "only applies for this and that, but doesn't apply for the other." You disagree with my interpretation, fine. But you have not provided any analysis showing that a cost comparison to a similar item for non-standard magic item is unwaranted. All you have done is play a shell game by using other (non-standard magic item) spell effects to "prove" that using the spell effects formula is "balanced." All you have done is show the deviation within that formula; you have not put it in any greater context.
You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was... Your quote on magic items is the base required to make an item and the only way to determine the strength of any item you find along the way. Everyone knows that items can have higher DC's if they are crafted by someone personally. Why can't I heighten the sanctuary spell to a level 9 spell before I enchant. This is going to increase the base cost of the item drastically as now its a 9th level spell, but quoting something that is in reference to finding magic items won't help you.
I'm merely putting things into perspective since you think the spell is over powered. And this is basing it off of you saying an item of this scale would be over powered and requires new pricing. There are a multitude of ways of achieving this spell including a 1000gp pearl of power crafted for 500gp. For those that can cast it, the spell scales with the caster who could also apply metamagic to increase duration. Or just having it as a charged item like a wand or a command word item. In these cases a wand could provide 50 minutes of protection for 750gp. Sure its not as good as a continuous item but 50 minutes in a day will generally be enough to protect you vs what is needed.
The thing is that when I compare magic items I try to derive how the publishers came to those conclusions. Not just say, 'hey its not published and there's ones published that don't make sense via formulas so I'm going to arbitrarily apply my own pricing.'
The problem with a ring of invisibility is that there is no ruling in the formulae for an unlimited number of charges. There's a rule for material costs on unlimited charged items but nothing for the first statement.
Cape of the Mountebank
7*4*1800gp/(5/1) = 10080gp
Ring of Freedom of Movement
7*4*2000gp = 56000gp. More than the cost of 40000gp listed.
Ring of Invisibility
3*2*1800gp/(5/infinity) = infinity
So this item should be inaccessible as we cant have infinite money. If it only had 10 charges it'd be more relative to the price listed;
3*2*1800gp/(5/10) = 21600gp
Ring of Invisibility (continuous much like the One Ring in LoTR)
3*2*2000gp(*2 modifier for spell duration) = 24000gp
A closer understanding of the price they've listed. Now since the ring doesn't provide a continuous effect and is treated as though unlimited charges as it needs the standard action to activate I'm sure the publishers deemed the value of it to be slightly less than the 24000gp listed and put it to 20000gp.
The only real item I haven't given you as cost comparison in my example is the benefits of immunity to mind affects that fall in the controlling category and the summoned creatures bit. Which is comparable to the spell effects of a sanctuary spell and under the rules entailed would cost you a similar amount to the difference remaining after the other items. The reason I said better benefits is that if the save is failed the benefits are far superior to that of protection from alignment but its hinged on the save so the two would be comparable. You on the other hand are choosing to compare this to a 40000gp item that provides you with far more than immunity to one form of attack.
PFSRD wrote:
Freedom of Movement
Abjuration
Level:Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 4, Luck 4, Rgr 4
Components:V, S, M, DF
Casting Time:1 standard action
Range:Personal or touch
Target:You or creature touched
Duration:10 min./level
Saving Throw:Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance:Yes (harmless)
This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin.
The spell also allows the subject to move and attack normally while underwater, even with slashing weapons such as axes and swords or with bludgeoning weapons such as flails, hammers, and maces, provided that the weapon is wielded in the hand rather than hurled. The freedom of movement spell does not, however, allow water breathing.
The way I see it, items that require actions to use are fair game for using the Caster Level * Spell Level * X formulas, because in most cases you could use a wand, potion, or pearl of power instead. For example, I would not have a problem with something like a pair of Goggles of True Strike that let you cast True Strike at will - you're still giving up an action for it. So you wouldn't have +20 to the first attack every round - you'd be giving up every other round's worth of attacks in exchange for that +20.
Some items, I'd be leery of allowing unlimited daily usage, particularly anything with a duration measured in minutes or above, or with an effect lasting beyond the immediate duration (e.g. Cure Light Wounds). A command word item casting CLW five times per day for 1,800 gp? Sure. One that casts it as often as you want? Nah.
But Protection from Evil has a duration of minutes, which is kind of the sweet spot for being problematic. Minutes means that the spell was never intended to be on all the time, unlike Mage armor or the 3.0 animal buffs (tens of minutes) - it's basically intended to be for a single encounter. By that reasoning, I'd allow a 3/day command-word item of Protection from Evil for 1,000 gp (3/5 * 1,800, rounded down).
Note that a PfE cast from an item is far inferior to a PfE effect continuously projected by an item. For one, it's vulnerable to Dispel Magic. For another, you can easily be caught with your pants down, while the spell isn't in effect.
Staffan Johansson wrote: The way I see it, items that require actions to use are fair game for using the Caster Level * Spell Level * X formulas, because in most cases you could use a wand, potion, or pearl of power instead. For example, I would not have a problem with something like a pair of Goggles of True Strike that let you cast True Strike at will - you're still giving up an action for it. So you wouldn't have +20 to the first attack every round - you'd be giving up every other round's worth of attacks in exchange for that +20.
Some items, I'd be leery of allowing unlimited daily usage, particularly anything with a duration measured in minutes or above, or with an effect lasting beyond the immediate duration (e.g. Cure Light Wounds). A command word item casting CLW five times per day for 1,800 gp? Sure. One that casts it as often as you want? Nah.
But Protection from Evil has a duration of minutes, which is kind of the sweet spot for being problematic. Minutes means that the spell was never intended to be on all the time, unlike Mage armor or the 3.0 animal buffs (tens of minutes) - it's basically intended to be for a single encounter. By that reasoning, I'd allow a 3/day command-word item of Protection from Evil for 1,000 gp (3/5 * 1,800, rounded down).
Note that a PfE cast from an item is far inferior to a PfE effect continuously projected by an item. For one, it's vulnerable to Dispel Magic. For another, you can easily be caught with your pants down, while the spell isn't in effect.
It's been moreso an argument on the value of a spell vs the table concluded value, where the cost value doesn't seem to be substantial enough for the item effect. Creating any item you still have to use the chart to determine where the item falls to know the appropriate formula. Continuous items are not allowed to be instantaneous or someone would get immunity to fire and walk around with a constant 30' ball of fire draped around themselves. The cost is altered by the duration of the spell. 1 hour/level = times 1 modifier, 10 min/level = times 1.5 modifier, 1 min/level = times 2 modifier, 1 round/level = times 4 modifier. Any more than an hour and the cost isn't affected any more than the 1 hour/level unless its a 24 hour duration at which point its 1/2 modifier. Any less than the 1 round/level and you cannot create it in a continuous form and has to be done in a charged form. (ie. truestrike, CLW)
You're correct with the goggles idea of using up a standard action on every other round to allow it to be used the following round. And the item to cast CLW 5 times per day. This would fall under the command word section and also adopt the charged item ruling under the special section.
caster level*spell level*1800gp/(5/x) where x is the number of charges per day. With 5 charges a day the cost is 1800gp for a level 1 spell cast as a level 1 caster.
No spell was really intended to last for an entire day unless its duration is 24 hours or if its measured in hours and you are a high enough caster to make this happen. If you want to set a limitation on this based off of spell duration that's your call as a GM as everything is just a guideline so you can play however you want. But RAW already governs this. If you were to limit spells that are 1 min/level or however you'd have to go over every magical item and disallow a lot of them. For protection from alignment 3 charges per day the cost would be;
1*1*1800gp/(5/3)= 1080gp.
Protection from alignment cast from an item is the same effect as one continuously projected from an item unless the creator chose to modify its effects through some other means. The only difference is duration. Items are subject to a dispel magic just like magical effects, its just that the item doesnt lose its magical properties, they are merely suppressed. Yes you can be caught with your pants down meaning enemies could have that suprise round to get off their spells before you could put it up. This is more the argument on the value of items vs the cost as listed.
Khrysaor wrote: Also it states on the formula table that if an item is continuous it is considered to have 50 charges for the purpose of determining costs.
Protection from evil
spell level 1
caster level 1
1*1*1800/(5/50) = 1*1*1800*(50/5) = 1*1*1800*10 = 18000gp
So for an item to provide a continuous Prot. evil it would cost 18000gp. Each additional protection would be 1.5 that cost if applied to the same item which is 27000gp.
Having 4 different protections would be 27000gp*3 + 18000gp = 99000gp.
EDIT: And this is the formula you would use regardless of it applying bonuses covered by other formula's. The formula you are using is making a magic effect/spell continuous on an item.
Um, how about no?
You might want to re-check that. You're doing it wrong. When determining the cost as if it had 50-100 charges, that is only for material components. Reading it otherwise creates a logical problem.
You see, it is to prevent getting around costly material components. For example, if I wanted to make a flask that could transform any water poured into it into holy water, as per the spell bless water, then I would have to take the 25 gp material component cost into consideration when I am determining the cost of the item; and since the item either has charges per day or unlimited charges, I need to know how much I should apply; hence the treating it as 50 or 100 charges.
So the aforementioned flask would cost...
2000 (use-activated/continuous) x 1 (caster level) x 1 (spell level) = 2,000 gp base price.
Then another 25 gp * 100 charges = 2,500 gp for the material cost.
Total item cost is 4,500 gp for a flask that blesses water placed inside of it.
Now if it was instead x/day, such as blesses one flask full every 8 hours, then it would instead be +1,250 gp, then the entire cost divided by 5 (for 1 charge / day), resulting in a flask that costs 650 gp.
With larger, more powerful spells, this extra cost due to components is incredibly important to remember. Let's use animate dead as an example...
Example: Let's pretend that we want to make a cool plot-device for our next game, so as the GM, we decide that we want a magic black orb that grants the power to call up the undead to serve you. It will function as a plot point for a couple of sessions, as one NPC abuses its power for their own gain. But how strong is it, and how much is it worth when the PCs finally get their hands on it at the end of the story arch?
Well let's say we want it basic, where it animates up to 10 HD of undead per time, and up to 20 HD of undead total, so we set it at caster level 5. We want it to be a wondrous item that anyone can use by holding it an exerting their will, so we go with Command-word/thought, which requires a standard action, which gives us our base 1,800 gp multiplier.
The spell is 3rd level and caster level 5, so our base cost is 3 * 5 * 1800 = 27,000 gp. That's a bit too expensive for our game, and we really don't need it to cast animate dead constantly, since you'll only be able to control up to 20 HD with it (CL limits), so we decide to make it once per day, so we divide the cost by 5, resulting in a nice
5,400 gp price tag.
Next, we determine the cost of materials. Since it has charges per day (1), we determine the cost as if it had 50 charges. We see that we want it to be able to animate up to 10 HD of undead at a time, so we need at least 250 gp worth of onyx gems per casting, or an extra 12,500 gp. We then divide that amount by 5 (1 charge per day), resulting in +2,500 gp instead.
So our final orb comes out at market value 7,900 gp, CL 5th, casts animate dead once per day, and can raise up to a maximum of 10 HD worth of undead when it does so, and can control up to 20 HD. So now, our little orb is ready to go! Easy, fair, and worthwhile. Thanks to the beauty that is the 3.x crafting rules! :D
Now, personally, I plan to use this item in an upcoming game, but I also plan for the plot arch to be a bit extended, so I will probably add Intelligent item qualities to the item, allowing it to activate itself on its own, and will weak-willed patsies around, while it pursues some yet undetermined goal; which will probably cross wires with the party, resulting in a glorious adventure; while the orb continually tries to remain out of their grasp, while leaving hordes of uncontrolled undead to slow the party down in their pursuit.
Khrysaor wrote: Protection from alignment cast from an item is the same effect as one continuously projected from an item unless the creator chose to modify its effects through some other means. The only difference is duration. Items are subject to a dispel magic just like magical effects, its just that the item doesnt lose its magical properties, they are merely suppressed. If you want to Dispel a magic item, you need to target the item specifically, and the effect will only be suppressed for 1d4 rounds. A spell cast by an item though, will be permanently dispelled just like a spell cast by the character himself.
What I mean is that I could see a pair of bracers of mage armor that lets you cast mage armor three times per day with a 1-hour duration, for 1,000 gp (1,080 according to the guidelines, but let's round it off). If you're using those and get hit by a dispel magic, the +4 armor bonus you're getting is likely going to get nuked (unless a more powerful spell takes the hit according to the normal dispel rules). But if I instead use a pair of bracers of armor +4, those bracers are going to have to be specifically targeted by the dispel, and even if I don't do anything about it, they're going to go online again in a few rounds.
Similarly, a hypothetic item that continuously shielded you with a protection from evil would only be momentarily disrupted by a dispel, but one that actively cast the spell on you would need recasting.
Staffan Johansson wrote: Khrysaor wrote: Protection from alignment cast from an item is the same effect as one continuously projected from an item unless the creator chose to modify its effects through some other means. The only difference is duration. Items are subject to a dispel magic just like magical effects, its just that the item doesnt lose its magical properties, they are merely suppressed. If you want to Dispel a magic item, you need to target the item specifically, and the effect will only be suppressed for 1d4 rounds. A spell cast by an item though, will be permanently dispelled just like a spell cast by the character himself.
What I mean is that I could see a pair of bracers of mage armor that lets you cast mage armor three times per day with a 1-hour duration, for 1,000 gp (1,080 according to the guidelines, but let's round it off). If you're using those and get hit by a dispel magic, the +4 armor bonus you're getting is likely going to get nuked (unless a more powerful spell takes the hit according to the normal dispel rules). But if I instead use a pair of bracers of armor +4, those bracers are going to have to be specifically targeted by the dispel, and even if I don't do anything about it, they're going to go online again in a few rounds.
Similarly, a hypothetic item that continuously shielded you with a protection from evil would only be momentarily disrupted by a dispel, but one that actively cast the spell on you would need recasting. Exactly. A 1/day item of something like mage armor might seem appealing, and at 400 gp market price, it's definitely not a bad deal. But it only lasts for 1 hour out of the day, and is only CL 1, which means that for the other 23 hours out of the day, a chain shirt is better and costs less money, and it won't be randomly dispelled trivially. In fact, the vast majority of items that cast spells on you are very easy to dispel, because people tend to make them at the minimum levels to cut costs.
A continuous caster level 1st protection from evil is kind of cute at about 4,000 gp, but it's pretty useless outside of protecting you from certain effects from evil creatures. It's not even good for protecting you from summoned monsters because it's caster level is so low that it is overcome by spell resistance easily, and the resistance and deflection bonus are quickly overshadowed by more specific versions of themselves.
It amazes me how much people over-estimate a few simple magic trinkets. This is one of the reasons Fighters can't have nice things.
Ashiel wrote: Khrysaor wrote: Also it states on the formula table that if an item is continuous it is considered to have 50 charges for the purpose of determining costs.
Protection from evil
spell level 1
caster level 1
1*1*1800/(5/50) = 1*1*1800*(50/5) = 1*1*1800*10 = 18000gp
So for an item to provide a continuous Prot. evil it would cost 18000gp. Each additional protection would be 1.5 that cost if applied to the same item which is 27000gp.
Having 4 different protections would be 27000gp*3 + 18000gp = 99000gp.
EDIT: And this is the formula you would use regardless of it applying bonuses covered by other formula's. The formula you are using is making a magic effect/spell continuous on an item.
Um, how about no?
You might want to re-check that. You're doing it wrong. When determining the cost as if it had 50-100 charges, that is only for material components. Reading it otherwise creates a logical problem.
You see, it is to prevent getting around costly material components. For example, if I wanted to make a flask that could transform any water poured into it into holy water, as per the spell bless water, then I would have to take the 25 gp material component cost into consideration when I am determining the cost of the item; and since the item either has charges per day or unlimited charges, I need to know how much I should apply; hence the treating it as 50 or 100 charges.
So the aforementioned flask would cost...
2000 (use-activated/continuous) x 1 (caster level) x 1 (spell level) = 2,000 gp base price.
Then another 25 gp * 100 charges = 2,500 gp for the material cost.
Total item cost is 4,500 gp for a flask that blesses water placed inside of it.
Now if it was instead x/day, such as blesses one flask full every 8 hours, then it would instead be +1,250 gp, then the entire cost divided by 5 (for 1 charge / day), resulting in a flask that costs 650 gp.
With larger, more powerful spells, this extra cost due to components is incredibly important to remember.... It was already caught by ZomB and I admitted I read the wrong thing. Please read full threads to assure your turn at criticism hasn't been taken care of by someone else.
Just to interject:
Wayfinder: 500 gp
Clear Spindle Ioun Stone: 4,000 gp
Making sure the stone is resonant: free (might take purchasing multiple of the stones, if your GM so decides)
Placing ston ein Wayfinder: Free
You won't get the AC deflection bonus (just buy a Ring of Protection +2 for 8,000 gp)
You won't get the +2 on saves
You will get the immunity to mental control/domination effects.
Real world cost:
Buying the Pathfinder book Seeker of Secrets for the Wayfinder and Ioun stone resonance rules.
For further definition of what the wayfinder/clear spindle ioun stone do together, there is an FAQ entry, probably in the Pathfinder Society FAQ, for what it does.
adrem wrote: Dragonchess Player wrote:
You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was...
totally wrong.
invisibility:
2x3x2000(continuous)x2 (1minute/level) = 24000 gp.
ring of invisibility cost 20000, lesser than 24000 gp.
If you house rule all the game because you think that protect evil is a powerful spell.. is your problem. Actually:
PRD wrote: Ring of Invisibility
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot ring; Price 20,000 gp; Weight —
Description
By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.
PRD wrote: Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed. it is not a continuous item. It is a item that can cast invisibility an unlimited number of times in a day but each casting last 3 minutes.
So the cost is:
invisibility:
2x3x1800(command word)x2 (1minute/level) = 21600 gp.
The 20K gp price was grandfathered from previous editions of the game.
Callarek wrote: Just to interject:
Wayfinder: 500 gp
Clear Spindle Ioun Stone: 4,000 gp
Making sure the stone is resonant: free (might take purchasing multiple of the stones, if your GM so decides)
Placing ston ein Wayfinder: Free
You won't get the AC deflection bonus (just buy a Ring of Protection +2 for 8,000 gp)
You won't get the +2 on saves
You will get the immunity to mental control/domination effects.
Real world cost:
Buying the Pathfinder book Seeker of Secrets for the Wayfinder and Ioun stone resonance rules.
For further definition of what the wayfinder/clear spindle ioun stone do together, there is an FAQ entry, probably in the Pathfinder Society FAQ, for what it does.
I said the same thing in post #12. Apparently having a solution is secondary to the intellectual exercise. It is even PFS legal, which is the most relevant detail for any PFS character.
Diego Rossi wrote: adrem wrote: Dragonchess Player wrote:
You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was...
totally wrong.
invisibility:
2x3x2000(continuous)x2 (1minute/level) = 24000 gp.
ring of invisibility cost 20000, lesser than 24000 gp.
If you house rule all the game because you think that protect evil is a powerful spell.. is your problem. Actually:
PRD wrote: Ring of Invisibility
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot ring; Price 20,000 gp; Weight —
Description
By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.
PRD wrote: Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed. it is not a continuous item. It is a item that can cast invisibility an unlimited number of times in a day but each casting last 3 minutes.
So the cost is:
invisibility:
2x3x1800(command word)x2 (1minute/level) = 21600 gp.
The 20K gp price was grandfathered from previous editions of the game. The formula you chose doesn't get to make use of the variant cost by spell duration. That's a reference only applied to making continuous effect items.
As I stated:
2*3*1800/(5/infinity)
This item by it's design is impossible to price and the only way of getting a comparable cost by the RAW is with the continuous effects stated by others and myself earlier at 24000gp. I do agree that this price was grandfathered in though.
LoreKeeper wrote: Callarek wrote: Just to interject:
Wayfinder: 500 gp
Clear Spindle Ioun Stone: 4,000 gp
Making sure the stone is resonant: free (might take purchasing multiple of the stones, if your GM so decides)
Placing ston ein Wayfinder: Free
You won't get the AC deflection bonus (just buy a Ring of Protection +2 for 8,000 gp)
You won't get the +2 on saves
You will get the immunity to mental control/domination effects.
Real world cost:
Buying the Pathfinder book Seeker of Secrets for the Wayfinder and Ioun stone resonance rules.
For further definition of what the wayfinder/clear spindle ioun stone do together, there is an FAQ entry, probably in the Pathfinder Society FAQ, for what it does.
I said the same thing in post #12. Apparently having a solution is secondary to the intellectual exercise. It is even PFS legal, which is the most relevant detail for any PFS character.
Had you taken the time to price the item out for us all to know of its existence like most of us were doing it would have been of great use earlier as opposed to your condescension now.
Honestly, it never occurred to me to give costs; the point was that a Paizo-printed, PFS-legal option exists.
Just a small correction, there has been official FAQ about the mind control/immunity of protection from evil and its ilk... it only protects against active control (domination, suggestion), not things like sleep that incapacitate but don't give control to the caster to do what he pleases with you. Still a nice benefit of the spell, but not so nice as it was suggested up thread. Also, in pricing this item, keep in mind the costs for permanent benefits of the same type ( deflection ac, saves), but also keep in mind they aren't =… a flat + to saves is nicer than a flat + to saves vs evil.
Hope that is helpful in pricing out an item =)
Khrysaor wrote: Diego Rossi wrote: adrem wrote: Dragonchess Player wrote:
You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was...
totally wrong.
invisibility:
2x3x2000(continuous)x2 (1minute/level) = 24000 gp.
ring of invisibility cost 20000, lesser than 24000 gp.
If you house rule all the game because you think that protect evil is a powerful spell.. is your problem. Actually:
PRD wrote: Ring of Invisibility
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot ring; Price 20,000 gp; Weight —
Description
By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.
PRD wrote: Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed. it is not a continuous item. It is a item that can cast invisibility an unlimited number of times in a day but each casting last 3 minutes.
So the cost is:
invisibility:
2x3x1800(command word)x2 (1minute/level) = 21600 gp.
The 20K gp price was grandfathered from previous editions of the game. The formula you chose doesn't get to make use of the variant cost by spell duration. That's a reference only applied to making continuous effect items.
As I stated:
2*3*1800/(5/infinity)
This item by it's design is impossible to price and the only way of getting a comparable cost by the RAW is with the continuous effects stated by others and myself earlier at 24000gp. I do agree that this price was grandfathered in though. You are right that it should not be priced as a continuous effect. So it is even better for my purposes, as using the construction guidelines it would cost 10.800, while it was priced at 20.000 to reflect its effective power. The invisibility ring is a clear example that the pricing guidelines are guidelines, not absolute rules.
Diego Rossi wrote: Khrysaor wrote: Diego Rossi wrote: adrem wrote: Dragonchess Player wrote:
You seem to understand that 4,000 gp boots of expeditious retreat are more powerful than the bare formula would indicate, but have not grasped that as a general principle. See ring of invisibility for another example: by the spell effect formula, it's 2 x 3 x 1,800 gp = 10,800 gp for an unlimited use command word item; however, because invisibility is a powerful effect, the market price was...
totally wrong.
invisibility:
2x3x2000(continuous)x2 (1minute/level) = 24000 gp.
ring of invisibility cost 20000, lesser than 24000 gp.
If you house rule all the game because you think that protect evil is a powerful spell.. is your problem. Actually:
PRD wrote: Ring of Invisibility
Aura faint illusion; CL 3rd
Slot ring; Price 20,000 gp; Weight —
Description
By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.
PRD wrote: Command Word: If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed. it is not a continuous item. It is a item that can cast invisibility an unlimited number of times in a day but each casting last 3 minutes.
So the cost is:
invisibility:
2x3x1800(command word)x2 (1minute/level) = 21600 gp.
The 20K gp price was grandfathered from previous editions of the game. The formula you chose doesn't get to make use of the variant cost by spell duration. That's a reference only applied to making continuous effect items.
As I stated:
2*3*1800gp/(5/infinity)
This item by it's design is impossible to price and the only way of getting a comparable cost by the RAW is with the continuous effects stated by others and myself earlier at 24000gp. I do ... Yes it's an issue where its a guideline but it could never be priced at 10800gp. You still have to follow the pricing rules.
You use the formula for command word items;
caster level*spell level*1800gp
And since it's considered a charged item;
divide by(5/x) where x is the number of charges
If something has unlimited charges (ie. infinite) it cannot be calculated. But since we know the duration is 3 minutes and there are 3600 minutes in a day, you could assume there is a potential 1200 charges per day.
This formula would now look like;
2*3*1800gp/(5/1200) = 10800gp*240 = 2,592,000gp
The only way to get a similar pricing according to the book is if it had 10 charges (21600gp) or was a continuous effect item (24000gp). But like you said, its been grandfathered in because of pricing in previous editions.
We've derailed from the topic on this for too long. It was about Protection from Evil items and its pricing and from what I've seen with this ioun stone item presented you could have an item that does all this for cheaper than going the route of 4 protection from alignment spells.
8000gp ring of protection
4000gp cloak of resistance = 6000gp applied to the same item
4500gp ioun stone/wayfinder combo; unsure how you'd price this onto the same item as the ioun stone value would be halved to start with since it's doubled for a slotless item. And I don't know the mechanics of the wayfinder. Let's just go with the 1.5 value of 6750gp.
20750gp total for this item that does everything the protection from 4x alignments does and even protects vs true neutral that PfA doesn't and comes in cheaper than the 22000gp listed.
There is nothing saying that a item can't have more than 5 used/day.
You can choose two approaches for a item with 6+ uses day:
Approach 1: 5+ uses day get no discount for limited number of uses in the day, so the item use the basic formula without divisor. It is the best approach as with 5+ uses in one day you cover most adventuring days, with an average of 4 encounters every day.
Approach 2: Purely mathematical. With 5 uses/day the cost is divided by 1 (5/5, no modifier), 6 uses it is divided by 0.833 (5/6) [or, for a simpler math, it is multiplied by 6/5]; 7 uses multiplied by 7/5 and so on. A constant use item will cost less than a command word activated item with 6+ uses.
I am in favour of option 1. You suggest option 2.
Note that a constant ring of invisibility has some problem. After you have broken the invisibility attacking someone, when you will be capable to restart it?
About PFE and the ioun stone combo: by RAW the ioun stone/wayfinder work only against evil mind affecting spells, so your combo will not protect against all alignment.
As it is a resonating power it is not even possible to duplicate it against other alignment with different wayfinder/ioun stones combos as far as the current rules go.
Diego Rossi wrote: There is nothing saying that a item can't have more than 5 used/day.
You can choose two approaches for a item with 6+ uses day:
Approach 1: 5+ uses day get no discount for limited number of uses in the day, so the item use the basic formula without divisor. It is the best approach as with 5+ uses in one day you cover most adventuring days, with an average of 4 encounters every day.
Approach 2: Purely mathematical. With 5 uses/day the cost is divided by 1 (5/5, no modifier), 6 uses it is divided by 0.833 (5/6) [or, for a simpler math, it is multiplied by 6/5]; 7 uses multiplied by 7/5 and so on. A constant use item will cost less than a command word activated item with 6+ uses.
I am in favour of option 1. You suggest option 2.
Note that a constant ring of invisibility has some problem. After you have broken the invisibility attacking someone, when you will be capable to restart it?
About PFE and the ioun stone combo: by RAW the ioun stone/wayfinder work only against evil mind affecting spells, so your combo will not protect against all alignment.
As it is a resonating power it is not even possible to duplicate it against other alignment with different wayfinder/ioun stones combos as far as the current rules go.
You can choose to play however you want. The RAW specifically give the formula required for determining cost, and no, an item with 6+ charges will not cost more than a continuous item as I gave an example of the ring of invis having 10 charges costing 21600gp and the continuous costing 24000gp.
2*3*1800gp/(5/10) = 21600gp
2*3*2000gp(*2 spell duration cost) = 24000gp
EDIT: I have no clue on the ioun stone as it wasn't my suggestion. Someone else posted it and said it fits the needs in this case. And never did I say an item cannot have more than 5 charges per day. I said that the description of the ring of invisiblity says its command word activated, lasts for 3 rounds per day, and has unlimited uses. Under those guidelines, it is easy to determine the 1200 potential charges it could have if you used it as soon as a charge ended.
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