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Deusvult, there are items on some Chronicles that take up item slots (I'm thinking of a mask available from a Season 1 chronicle sheet) that function as masterwork items for skills like Intimidate. I can see paying 50 gold to mount decorative skulls all around the edge of my shield, too.
If it were my table, I'd be perfectly fine with such a shield being a mwk intimidate tool. You can use it for the shield bonus, or for the +2 to indimidate.. not both at the same time.
In the case of the mask from a chronicle.. well all bets are off when chronicles are involved anyway. Chronicles trump PFS/Core rules, so why labor that point? :) So sure, I'd let a mwk intimidate tool in the form of a mask that doesn't need to be 'equipped', but only because it appeared on the chronicle. Mr "Hey, me too!" sitting next to him is S.O.L.
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There are some fine items on Chronicles that are both more specific and more expensive than a masterwork tool.
for example, a Chelaxian book costs 100 gp and gives +1 to Knowledge (planes) when identifying devils. It is poitless when people are carrying around 50 gp books that give +2 bonus to all Knowledge (planes) checks.
Bearing in mind that masterwork tools provide a circumstance bonus, and circumstance bonuses stack, would the Chelaxian book stack with the masterwork tools?
Wait, circumstance bonuses stack?! Abadar preserve me, my mind is blown by all the possibilities.
Circumstance bonuses from different circumstances stack. Using a book of knowledge is the same circumstance as using a book of knowledge. Granted, the books could hold different knowledge. But then, they could also hold nothing of what you're looking for. Best to keep it a simple, single +2 circumstance bonus and call it a day.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.
So long as you recognize that when the stuff hits the fan you have to retrieve your book before you make any knowledge checks to identify creatures and arguably another standard action to use the reference material.
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Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.So long as you recognize that when the stuff hits the fan you have to retrieve your book before you make any knowledge checks to identify creatures and arguably another standard action to use the reference material.
Pathfinder chronicle requires 1d4 rounds of perusal before you get the +2. Really makes the usage during combat pretty much nil.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Pathfinder chronicle requires 1d4 rounds of perusal before you get the +2. Really makes the usage during combat pretty much nil.Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.So long as you recognize that when the stuff hits the fan you have to retrieve your book before you make any knowledge checks to identify creatures and arguably another standard action to use the reference material.
I was going add your above quote about having lots of books to my post but seems pointless now ;)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The question is, do we give them (and me, cause I'll take every LEGAL gimmick) another +2 on all thier skills, or just some of them. This came up on the other post, cause players are right now useing it for +2 on UMD checks cause their PC has a 50 GP mood ring... that I guess weighs a pound, but I'll bet the player doesn't track weight.
Mood ring? Shouldn't it be a magic eight ball?
How do I activate this blasted thing!!
Magic Eight Ball — "Concentrate and ask again"
Argh! I need healing, how do I use this wand!!
"Reply hazy, try again"
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It's back to the circumstances - do they even apply! The problem is, players are not going to ask unless they DON'T count unless they do. I have a Dwarf with a good perception - the judge says "Roll a Perception check" I roll and replay "22, 24 if it involves stonework". BUT I know other players who just say "24". 'Cause to them the bonus ALWAYS applies.
The question is, do we give them (and me, cause I'll take every LEGAL gimmick) another +2 on all thier skills, or just some of them. This came up on the other post, cause players are right now useing it for +2 on UMD checks cause their PC has a 50 GP mood ring... that I guess weighs a pound, but I'll bet the player doesn't track weight.
I don't track weight, but an 18 str no armor caster is pretty free to carry what he wants :D
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I believe it was Sean or Jason who suggested that a "masterwork tool" for UMD would be a chapbook of common activation words.
Really, I think that time is the best common-sense brake on someone spending 1300 gold for a +2 in 26 skills. If someone wants to wear a fancy outfit for +2 to his Diplomacy, and also have a black suit for +2 to Stealth, that's fine, but it should take more than 6 seconds to turn from Bruce Wayne into Batman.
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The question is, do we give them (and me, cause I'll take every LEGAL gimmick) another +2 on all thier skills, or just some of them. This came up on the other post, cause players are right now useing it for +2 on UMD checks cause their PC has a 50 GP mood ring... that I guess weighs a pound, but I'll bet the player doesn't track weight.
How much you wanna bet?
Anyway, yes I keep track of my characters' encumbrances. Not only that, but also my character's horse's. No I don't audit every player's character I GM for, but since I keep my own books honest I guess I assume I'm safe giving other players the benefit of the doubt you seem unwilling to do.
Why would I be ok with a 1 pound ring? Well, besides my character already carrying 100gp in other jewelry, and another nonmagical signet ring.. and having a roleplayed prediliction for bling.. it seemed gaudy enough to be 'just right'. The 1 pound wasn't a big enough difference to push my char's encumbrance from light to medium, and he was already wearing heavy armor anyway so it'd have been no big deal even if it did. And that was before I purchased a handy haversack.
Or should I assume the post was hyperbole rather than being called a cheat?
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Yes, you need to actively use any tool. So passive checks wouldn't benefit from the use of a masterwork tool. Using an example for existing equipment, if you use a climber's kit to scale a wall, you need to take it out of your pack and put on the grip gloves and shoe spikes and such. If you get bull rushed down a steep slope and need to make a climb check to keep from sliding down it, that would generally need to be made without the kit's bonus. Likewise, a magnifying glass would help you on active Perception checks, but not passive ones to notice someone about to ambush you.
Hm... So I guess I need to ret-con my rogue's two masterwork tools. The one for acrobatics was a set of really nice, high-traction, well-balanced shoes. The one for stealth was an assortment of straps to keep gear from jostling around too much.
Neither of those really feels abusive, but I would really feel weird deliberately going against Mark's statement of intent...
I also probably wouldn't have bought them if I thought I had to keep changing shoes all day, but I can't really get refunds on them...
Dilemma. :(
I haven't bought master work tools other then profession and thieves' do to their existence/working being somewhat of a grey area.
I do have a character with the MW intimidate mask from an early module since it was clearly defined.
With this ruling I don't think most of my characters would care enough to acquire masterwork tools but that character with the intimidate mask who has at least one rank in 28 different skills and already carries around a boat load of consumables would love to have a whole bunch of these.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I like the magic 8 ball thou - I may just use that.
Honestly, I don't think the eight ball or the mood are 'tools' at all and neither should qualify because there is no real way their actually assist you. The book of common command words Chris mentioned makes a lot of sense for UMD.
May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.
May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.
Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.
A Rogue carrying some tools that would make his job easier (Thieve's Tools, of course, maybe some padded shoes or a batch of camo clothing for sneaking/Stealth, etc.)
Depending on a PC's background or established MO, I could see some PCs carrying insane numbers of masterwork tools. One of the locals plays a Rogue/Bard who is non-combat, but heavy into consumables. A potion for every need type. I could easily see Brandi also adding, to her stock of 20-30 potions of Cure Light Wounds, stocks of Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fires, potions of Hide From Animals & Hide from Undead, vermin repellant, etc.
I find this thread incredibly amusing. I am new to PF but ENCUMBERANCE has always been a big deal in Fantasy RPGs. One player had 6 PAGES of magic items, each on a single line. His DM forced him go invent a new spell, QUICK CHECK OF MAGIC ITEMS because it was impossible to keep track of inventory.
Fast forward 20 years (well closer to 27). I see things haven't changed.
In terms of rationale, my first and previous DM did NOT like the idea of using alchemy skill to invent an Advanced Healing Kit, nor Surgical Tools for adding a bonus for long-term care. I think this was part of the spill over the WoW HealBot mentality. The game system is dyamic and not stochastic.
If a character can justify it and carry it out, why would you prevent it? Its like inventing a new spell. If he REALLY wants to experiment with 26 different skills, well, he'll be too busy to participate and need a mule to carry everything.
First time I could, I bought three mules to carry all the party equipment and managed the party accounts so we had rations, beer for the dwarf, wine for the elf, and enough money left over to sleep in a nice room for a week and heal up.
Anyways, viva la creative players!
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18 strength is no infinite carrying capacity, it's 100 lbs. to medium encumbrance.
If you don't track weight and you think you are free to carry whatever you want you are probably over cap already.
Just checked the math, I'm at about 25 pounds. 7 for the sword, 10 for the books, and the remainder is miscellaneous stuff.
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I like the magic 8 ball thou - I may just use that.Honestly, I don't think the eight ball or the mood are 'tools' at all and neither should qualify because there is no real way their actually assist you. The book of common command words Chris mentioned makes a lot of sense for UMD.
Well, if you subscribe to the belief that magic obeys the rules of empirical evidence and scientific theory, I guess I can see how you'd say they don't help.
I prefer to believe that magic by definition does NOT follow these rules and is what its very nature is.. otherwise magic would be technology :D
How do you KNOW that by following the suggestions of a magic 8 ball you won't have better luck with UMD? How do you KNOW you can't use the color changes of a mood ring to tell when you're 'linking' succesfully (or unsuccessfully.. try thinking something else!) with a magic device?
Personally I always thought the concept of UMD was shoddy to begin with. The idea that a roguish character get just happen to guess how to manipulate the last threads of cosmic force binding a spell to a scroll and somehow knows that last fragment of the spell to 'complete' the spell is quite far fetched.
I can see possibly a UMD for wands since they require very little to trigger. But Active Blindly has always killed my suspension of disbelief.
All in all, looking for a realistic description for a tool to aid in an unrealistic probability machine seems to me a waste of time. But if it makes you happy...
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Personally I always thought the concept of UMD was shoddy to begin with. The idea that a roguish character get just happen to guess how to manipulate the last threads of cosmic force binding a spell to a scroll and somehow knows that last fragment of the spell to 'complete' the spell is quite far fetched.
I can see possibly a UMD for wands since they require very little to trigger. But Active Blindly has always killed my suspension of disbelief.
All in all, looking for a realistic description for a tool to aid in an unrealistic probability machine seems to me a waste of time. But if it makes you happy...
Activate blindly has gobs of fictional precedence though!
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Tools are by definition non-magical. A magic eight ball that tells you how to use another magic item... isn't a tool, it's a low grade wondrous item.
Why make a distinction? Any reason a tool can't ALSO be a low grade wondrous item, if that's how you want to classify it? Costs 50g, weighs 1 lbs, has an aura so minimal it doesn't even register on detect magic. Bam! Everyone's sense of definition is met :)
Active blindly = linguistics vs UMD, you be the judge.
Thats is, go read Tales of the Dying Earth, that's where the terminology comes from :)
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Tools are by definition non-magical. A magic eight ball that tells you how to use another magic item... isn't a tool, it's a low grade wondrous item.Why make a distinction? Any reason a tool can't ALSO be a low grade wondrous item, if that's how you want to classify it? Costs 50g, weighs 1 lbs, has an aura so minimal it doesn't even register on detect magic. Bam! Everyone's sense of definition is met :)
If they are low grade wondrous items they belong in the magic item chapter and follow different rules.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Just checked the math, I'm at about 25 pounds. 7 for the sword, 10 for the books, and the remainder is miscellaneous stuff.18 strength is no infinite carrying capacity, it's 100 lbs. to medium encumbrance.
If you don't track weight and you think you are free to carry whatever you want you are probably over cap already.
You didn't need to check it... sorry I get grumpy sometimes.
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You didn't need to check it... sorry I get grumpy sometimes.Just checked the math, I'm at about 25 pounds. 7 for the sword, 10 for the books, and the remainder is miscellaneous stuff.18 strength is no infinite carrying capacity, it's 100 lbs. to medium encumbrance.
If you don't track weight and you think you are free to carry whatever you want you are probably over cap already.
Yeah, just reminding you that a caster with high strength has a remarkably large carrying capacity because he doesn't have to worry about stuff like armor or shields. Always makes people smile to think that the caster is the one who should be shelping all the gear around.
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How does the Deep Pockets (Ex) feature in to this.
A Pathfinder Chronicler collects items as well as lore, picking up small amounts of this or that throughout her travels. As a result, she may carry unspecified equipment worth up to 100 gp per class level. This can be any kind of gear that can reasonably fit into a backpack, including potions or scrolls (but not any other sort of magic item).
So while Nosig was joking about his toolbox and Mike like to restrict it to 10 I actually realize I carry Nosigs toolbox already with me. I just wasn't aware of it.
You need a tool - just ask me. I think I picked something up on the market in Katapesh. It looked weird and I wanted to investigate it closer. And restrictions around numbers carried shouldn't apply as I only remember when needed that this specific tool is in my bag.
Theodum - Wizard 7, Pathfinder Chronicler 1
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I believe it was Sean or Jason who suggested that a "masterwork tool" for UMD would be a chapbook of common activation words.
Really, I think that time is the best common-sense brake on someone spending 1300 gold for a +2 in 26 skills. If someone wants to wear a fancy outfit for +2 to his Diplomacy, and also have a black suit for +2 to Stealth, that's fine, but it should take more than 6 seconds to turn from Bruce Wayne into Batman.
Well - actually the 1300 gp are rather cheap.
Look at Ioun stones:
Incandescent cracked blue spindle +1 to one wisdom based skill 200gp
Deep Red cracked Spere +1 to one Dex based skill 200 gp
Etc.
The general cost for Ioun stones is 200 gp for a +1 or 5000 gp for a +5.
So MW tools are just 25% of an equivalent benefit via Ioun stone.
Please remember - this stared on the CLW wand thread where the consensus was as experienced player you should have one. Nobody said to buy potions instead which seems much more in line to a fighter for me.
Yes - a wand is only 30% per charge compared to a potion.
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I'd rather see players exercise some self-control rather than add another entry to the FAQ or in the Guide to PFS Organized Play.
Self control is great in the beginning - until greed and peer pressure kick in.
Just look at bank bonuses. There are a lot of bankers that probably agree that their bonus is too high. But their self control gets overruled by greed and peer pressure.
So right now self control might look good - but a few years down the line you will have problems to reign in the excesses.
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Would you carry 26 tools, or masterwork tools for just the skills you are currently trained in, even skills that can't be used untrained?
Why are these people nowadays so badly trained I ask.
Look at me - I have 30 different skills that I mastered enough to regard them as class skill and yes - I took care to invest at least a little bit into each of them.
I prefer mind over matter - and my build is weak - so I avoid some strenous actions. So no - I can't climb - I cast fly for this. And I can't stealth - that is what silence and invisibility are good for.
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Here is a list of Theodums useful items.
Theodum's items are like Schroedinger's cat. You don't know if they are in his haversack or not. There are still 9 skills that I haven't covered and I haven't gone through all the chronicles yet (only added one item for Intimidate). Please let me know of items I missed - especially if they work for one of the 9 skills without an entry.
Something that I noticed when looking at the list: In rare cases gear is a lot cheaper - this reminds me to add the pigs grease to it for escape artist.
Most MW items are around the 50 gp level.
Some of the stuff can be a lot heavyer as the 1 lb for a generic MW tool.
A lot of tools grant only a bonus in very restricted cicrumstances.
Some items are a LOT more expensive.
At least in one case you can see tools to stack (Surgeon tools)
This leaves several big questions
How to handle generic MW tools if there are some that already exist - especially :
if generic ones don't use charges
if they are lighter
if they are cheaper
if they have no restricions
if a player want to stack them with existing tools / invents his own stackable items
Skill Item Cost Weight Comment
Acrobatics Balancing Pole 0.8 12 Only for balancing narrow surfaces
Appraise Magnifying glass 100 na only small or highly detailed items
Appraise Merchant Scale 2 1 only weight based items
Bluff
Climb Climbers Kit 80 5
Craft Artisan Tools MW 55 5
Craft Alchemist Lab 200 (500 according to HeroLab) 40 Craft Alchemy only
Craft Alchemist Lab Portable 75 20 only +1
Diplomacy Perfume
Disable Device Thieves tools MW 100 2
Disguise Disguise Kit 50 8 10 uses
Disguise Symptom Kit 25 5 10 uses, +5 to show symptoms of an illness
Escape Artist Ooze Grease 50 1 1 use, +5 for escape artist, but also to avoid grapple or reflex save against an ooze
Fly
Handle Animal
Heal Healers Kit 50 1 10 uses
Heal Bloodblock 25 1 use, gives +5 wounds , alchemical bonus
Heal Bodybalm 25 1 use, gives +5 for long term care, treating poison and desease, alchemical bonus
Heal Surgeons Tools 20 5 Raise the heal check to +3 when used together with healer kit
Heal Leeching Kit 5 5 For treating poison, +2
Intimidate Chronicle item 55
Knowledge Arcana Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Dungeoneering Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Enieneering Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Geography Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Geography Astrolabe 100 6 gives +2 for Knowledge Geography, Survival not being lost and Profession sailor
Knowledge History Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Local Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Nature Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Nobility Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Planes Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Knowledge Religion Pathfinder Chronicle 50 1 Takes 1d4 rounds searching the text. Each chronicle is for one Knowledge
Linguistics
Perception
Perform Musical instrument MW 100 3
Profession Fortune teller deck 50 1 Profession fortune teller or medium
Ride Saddle Military 60 40 only for checks staying in the saddle, increases in addition chance to stay in saddle if unconscious from 50% to 75%
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Spellcraft
Stealth Liskens Medical tonic 10 1 1 use only, halflings only, -4 to initiative, +2 stealth - lasts 10 minutes
Survival Area Map 50 2 only +1 for not getting lost
Survival Astrolabe 100 6 gives +2 for Knowledge Geography, Survival not being lost and Profession sailor
Survival Bellows 1 3 For starting fires +1
Survival Compass 10 0.5 For avoiding to be lost - +2
Survival(?) Footprint book 50 3 Allows a +2 to identify a monster by the footprint
Survival Map Maker Kit 10 2 For avoiding to be lost - +2
Survival Sextant 500 2 For navigation +4
Swim Flotation Device 1 2 only +1, not MW
Use Magic Device
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Not carrying 26 masterwork tools when you are only trained in 8 skills :)Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)
I like your original statement more!!! ..
I'm a little late to this discussion, but I think "masterwork tool" is actually the correct term for a player that try to game the system by carrying too many of these. :)
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This is a Rules Question, not a PFS issue. Whatever position the Core Rules supports, PFS will follow.
Doug, it's clear that any situation where the answer is "GM's discretion" will be PFS issue.
My question(s) still stands: Does the player get to decide exactly how their tools work? Is it okay for the player to state that his tool doesn't require any hands to use? Is it okay for the player to state that his tool is made out of metal and has 100 hit points? Is it okay for the player to state that his tool is something fairly bizarre (e.g. a hair pin that allows him to get a bonus to Diplomacy)? Etc., etc.
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One issue is that Masterwork doesn't necessarily describe the quality of the item itself, but its ability to grant a bonus to the users actions. What I mean is, a book does not have to be printed on the finest grade wood pulp with gilded edges and written using ink formed from blessed celestial blood to provide a circumstance bonus to a skill check.
So, in most cases, I do not give masterwork tools hit points, etc outside of a simple mundane item. Blast it with a Fireball or strike it with a weapon and it will be damaged such that it will not longer provide the skill bonus.
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I'm really here with hogarth - how to handle GM discretion (or is there any)
One other issue is - can you (do you have to) change the stats of the MW tool depending on the description.
What about the following:
MW Diplomacy tools - Mages garment with intricate patterns stitched into it and made from fine fabric. The tool allows the mage to be recognized for his status and imbues a +2 circumstance bonus to diplomacy. Cost 50 gp, weight 1 lb
Should I change cost to 80 (I base it on a courtiers outfit and add 50 gp for MW ?)
What about the weight? Do I have to alter the weight to something more realistic? Am I even allowed to do so?
When I started with my Str.7 wizard - with dodge and mobility - I had to rely on low encumbrance - which is 23 pounds max. An explorer outfit is 8 lb, a traveller outfit 5 lb. He didn't wanted to go naked or use a peasant outfit. But saving 4 lb on encumbrance would have been HUGE for me.
Sorry for this long winded example - but it goes back to GM discretion. With GM discretion I would work something out and alter the stats to something meaningful. But that goes contary to PFS.
Without GM discretion to alter the stats I feel the above is just a cheesy way from me to get a benefit that I shouldn't have.
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Well here's the thing for anyone who just 'doesn't like' mwk UMD tools.
RAW, UMD (and every other skill) has a mwk tool available.
RAI, it's been confirmed by Mike in this thread.
RAI, it's been REconfirmed by Mike in this thread. (with the caveat that he doesn't want to see it abused.)
One can put their head in the sand and say "No I think my vision of the game is more accurate than Paizo's" or you can accept your RAI isn't the PFS stance and move on.
Gets me going a little to see other people NOT letting it go after Mike or Sean or Mark or someone else at Paizo make a post that should have been the end of discussion. I've had my own threads go that way where I was on the OTHER side of Paizo's rulings.. but you haven't seen me going on about those since. Aside from just now, to illustrate the contrast. It is what it is, and there's always home games where PFS rulings won't apply.
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The only real way to avoid "hurt feelings" due to table variation and GM discretion, just call it a generic masterwork tool tied to a specific skill. If the GM wants it to take a specific form so it will function properly in his/her eyes, fine, let 'em define it. If they don't care and want the player to describe it, fine on that too.
Either way, there is waaay too much variation in this item for everyone to agree on what is/not an appropriate tool. So if there is a published tool that already exists that functions as a masterwork tool, then leave it at that. Whatever its stats are, they are. If there is no published tool, then use the general tool, masterwork entry in the CRB.
As a general rule, like bonuses don't stack. So wearing fancy clothes AND jewelry AND cologne is still only going to net you a +2 to Diplomacy. My 2cp
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Well here's the thing for anyone who just 'doesn't like' mwk UMD tools.
RAW, UMD (and every other skill) has a mwk tool available.
RAI, it's been confirmed by Mike in this thread.
RAI, it's been REconfirmed by Mike in this thread. (with the caveat that he doesn't want to see it abused.)
One can put their head in the sand and say "No I think my vision of the game is more accurate than Paizo's" or you can accept your RAI isn't the PFS stance and move on.
Gets me going a little to see other people NOT letting it go after Mike or Sean or Mark or someone else at Paizo make a post that should have been the end of discussion. I've had my own threads go that way where I was on the OTHER side of Paizo's rulings.. but you haven't seen me going on about those since. Aside from just now, to illustrate the contrast. It is what it is, and there's always home games where PFS rulings won't apply.
Deusvult
I'm sorry if I look like someone who can't drop it. And I feel sorry to Mike that I didn't let it die. I just left these boards yesterday when everything here happened.
My issue is that I actually might start to like mwk tools too much. I wasn't aware that the rules - coupled with Deep pockets - give me the ability to just freely invent a new tool whenever I need one. And yes - the way I read it, it gives me the freedom to invent something obscure and role play it for a guaranteed +2 bonus for the cost of 50 gp.
The more generic ones will be kept, the more obscure ones discarded at the end of a scenario.
Yes - Mike doesn't like misuse - but is this a misuse if I come up with something specific for a task with a character who has a porter carrying a foldable latter, a large tent and a foldable chair around.
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I'm going out on a limb here, but from what I've seen from M&M, a masterwork tool is:
1. a generic item that has no other description
2. grants a +2 circumstance bonus when used and has no other game mechanic based on appearance
3. must be activated as part of the skill check action and thus is 'not an action'
4. must be retrieved to be used just as thieves tools or a healer's kit, unlike how spell components are used in spellcasting.
5. cannot be used for an immediate or reflexive action as they don't allow the time to retrieve the item.
6. must be retrieve each time the skill is used (don't really agree with this, but it's assumed you put them away after each use).
Not very realistic, but simple for easy mechanics. I've heard tell that more specific items and mechanics will be in the Ultimate Equipment book.