the question would be:
In PFSOP, can a PC buy a tool to give a bonus on ANY skill... for example Stealth and Use Magic Device?
I have a follow-up question:
Since almost nothing is specified in the item description, is it up to the player or the GM to decide any details? E.g. whether the tool take one or two hands to use (or no hands at all), whether the tool is big or small, what material the tool is made of, etc.
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I spoke with Sean Reynolds and he advised that any skill is allowed to receive the +2 bonus per the Core Rulebook. These will be more clearly defined when the Ultimate Equipment Guide comes out.
Let me add one caveat. If people start trying to game the system and abusing this by carrying around 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 different tools, I will put a PFS rule into place limiting it to one masterwork tool per character. Please do not make me take this step. I am trusting the playerbase to use this ruling responsibly.
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text of the item discription.
Tool, Masterwork: This well-made item is the perfect
tool for the job. It grants a +2 circumstance bonus on a
related skill check (if any). Bonuses provided by multiple
masterwork items do not stack.the question would be:
In PFSOP, can a PC buy a tool to give a bonus on ANY skill... for example Stealth and Use Magic Device?This is a general question - NOT intended to be a list of which skills you can get tools or kits for now. Just intended to get the discussion off the other thread an on one of it's own.
There is a thread my buddy showed me with a post by Josh Frost on these forums somewhere where he says something to the effect if you're creative enough to come up with an item, it would work.
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I spoke with Sean Reynolds and he advised that any skill is allowed to receive the +2 bonus per the Core Rulebook. These will be more clearly defined when the Ultimate Equipment Guide comes out.
Let me add one caveat. If people start trying to game the system and abusing this by carrying around 10 or 15 or 20 or 25 different tools, I will put a PFS rule into place limiting it to one masterwork tool per character. Please do not make me take this step. I am trusting the playerbase to use this ruling responsibly.
OK folks, so per the Campaign Coordinator each PC can carry up to 9 Masterwork Tools. It you want to have more than 9 tools, then ask another PC to carry any overages, unless they are at the limit also.
Sorry Mike, I couldn't resist being a d-bag ;)
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May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.
May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.
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May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)?
May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.
So I can't answer for Shadowcat, but I can say that I had a rogue/bard/druid as a skill monkey. (Dead now, unfortunately). He prided himself in getting the party safely through the environment of any Pathfinder mission (much like the Shadow Lodge). Seeing as he prioritized magic +skill items over weapons, he would certainly try to pick up as much masterwork tools as possible.
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So I can't answer for Shadowcat, but I can say that I had a rogue/bard/druid as a skill monkey. (Dead now, unfortunately). He prided himself in getting the party safely through the environment of any Pathfinder mission (much like the Shadow Lodge). Seeing as he prioritized magic +skill items over weapons, he would certainly try to pick up as much masterwork tools as possible.
Would you carry 26 tools, or masterwork tools for just the skills you are currently trained in, even skills that can't be used untrained?
The question I have is for "reactive" skills like Perception. For example, I thought of having something similar to a snuff box, holding a mild stimulant (whatever the Golarian version of coffee is, for example). Theocrat Issac pointed out (rightly, I think) that it was fine to use before you had a roll for a check, but it wouldn't be in force all day long, just in case you had a reactive perception check. Anyone have any ideas what would work for this? A good example of an "all day" MW tool would be like that mask in one mod that worked for intimidate.
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A set of monocles or an ear horn could work for Perception.
On a side note, Adventurer's Armoury includes details on Golarion coffee:
"This drink is brewed by pouring boiling water through crushed, roasted coffee beans. Coffee is a common part of many cultures in Garund. A very strong brew called Sargavan Red is potent enough to reduce the penalties from the fatigued condition from –2 to –1 for 1 hour."
Coffee is indeed common throughout the Inner Sea Region and beyond. It has been consumed in such diverse locations as the decadent town of Carrion Hill in Ustalav (Carrion Hill, p. 30), the City of Brass on the Plane of Fire (The Impossible Eye, p. 24-25), the town of Kelmarane in Katapesh (The Final Wish, p. 16), the cities of Taldor (Campaign Setting, p. 240), the Jittery Quill pub near the Academae in Korvosa (Guide to Korvosa, p. 18), and the Pathfinder Lodge known as Heidmarch Manor in Magnimar (Seekers of Secrets, p. 37).
Coffee is known to be produced in warmer climes, such as the town of Kibwe in the Mwangi Expanse (Heart of Darkness ... I mean, Heart of the Jungle, p. 36), and Qadira (Qadira, Gateway to the East, p.6)
Director of Brand Strategy
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The question I have is for "reactive" skills like Perception. For example, I thought of having something similar to a snuff box, holding a mild stimulant (whatever the Golarian version of coffee is, for example). Theocrat Issac pointed out (rightly, I think) that it was fine to use before you had a roll for a check, but it wouldn't be in force all day long, just in case you had a reactive perception check. Anyone have any ideas what would work for this? A good example of an "all day" MW tool would be like that mask in one mod that worked for intimidate.
Yes, you need to actively use any tool. So passive checks wouldn't benefit from the use of a masterwork tool. Using an example for existing equipment, if you use a climber's kit to scale a wall, you need to take it out of your pack and put on the grip gloves and shoe spikes and such. If you get bull rushed down a steep slope and need to make a climb check to keep from sliding down it, that would generally need to be made without the kit's bonus. Likewise, a magnifying glass would help you on active Perception checks, but not passive ones to notice someone about to ambush you.
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Please do not make me take this step. I am trusting the playerbase to use this ruling responsibly.
That is a large amount of trust, and they will make you take that step...
But seriously (and, NERD ALERT) what if masterwork tools were situational? Ballet Slippers give a +2 to stealth, but -2 to survival, for example.
Also, just remembered back in 3E when one of my players tried to use a spyglass to increase indoor spot checks; good times!
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May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.
May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.
Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.
A Rogue carrying some tools that would make his job easier (Thieve's Tools, of course, maybe some padded shoes or a batch of camo clothing for sneaking/Stealth, etc.)
Depending on a PC's background or established MO, I could see some PCs carrying insane numbers of masterwork tools. One of the locals plays a Rogue/Bard who is non-combat, but heavy into consumables. A potion for every need type. I could easily see Brandi also adding, to her stock of 20-30 potions of Cure Light Wounds, stocks of Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fires, potions of Hide From Animals & Hide from Undead, vermin repellant, etc.
May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.
May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.
Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.
A Rogue carrying some tools that would make his job easier (Thieve's Tools, of course, maybe some padded shoes or a batch of camo clothing for sneaking/Stealth, etc.)
Depending on a PC's background or established MO, I could see some PCs carrying insane numbers of masterwork tools. One of the locals plays a Rogue/Bard who is non-combat, but heavy into consumables. A potion for every need type. I could easily see Brandi also adding, to her stock of 20-30 potions of Cure Light Wounds, stocks of Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fires, potions of Hide From Animals & Hide from Undead, vermin repellant, etc.
Now i'm thinking of car mechanics and service station vs. tow truck toolkits; definitely should be a limit on number carried. Might be an encumbrance issue though.
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Now i'm thinking of car mechanics and service station vs. tow truck toolkits; definitely should be a limit on number carried. Might be an encumbrance issue though.
I'm thinking of my time as a beat cop. I had two sets of handcuffs, a primary weapon, an asp baton, pepper spray, a flashlight, latex glove pouch, a cell phone holder, and a radio holder. Nothing else would fit on my belt. That is nine items, all very useful for my job, but there is only so much I could carry outside of my police car.
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Would you carry 26 tools, or masterwork tools for just the skills you are currently trained in, even skills that can't be used untrained?
So I can't answer for Shadowcat, but I can say that I had a rogue/bard/druid as a skill monkey. (Dead now, unfortunately). He prided himself in getting the party safely through the environment of any Pathfinder mission (much like the Shadow Lodge). Seeing as he prioritized magic +skill items over weapons, he would certainly try to pick up as much masterwork tools as possible.
He had a rank in everything, so yes. (Well, except Fly, but he didn't have a way to fly yet)
EDIT: Note that rogue/bard/druid makes everything a class skill.
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Now i'm thinking of car mechanics and service station vs. tow truck toolkits; definitely should be a limit on number carried. Might be an encumbrance issue though.May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.
May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.
Not 26 tools, but I could see my Lore Warden carrying a stock of reference books, including, potentially, a batch of Pathfinder Chronicles. He might also carry tools for any of his other trained or often-used skills.
A Rogue carrying some tools that would make his job easier (Thieve's Tools, of course, maybe some padded shoes or a batch of camo clothing for sneaking/Stealth, etc.)
Depending on a PC's background or established MO, I could see some PCs carrying insane numbers of masterwork tools. One of the locals plays a Rogue/Bard who is non-combat, but heavy into consumables. A potion for every need type. I could easily see Brandi also adding, to her stock of 20-30 potions of Cure Light Wounds, stocks of Tanglefoot Bags, Alchemist's Fires, potions of Hide From Animals & Hide from Undead, vermin repellant, etc.
Nothing a handy haversack couldn't fix.
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May I ask what in character reason you have for carrying around 26 different masterwork tools, one for each skill (or possibly more if you carry one for each Knowledge skill)? I have six characters ranging from levels 2-11 and none of them would have a reason for carrying a toolbox on an adventure. I'm interested to hear your in character reasons why your character would want to carry a toolbox.
May I ask why? Seems to me that getting high quality (rather than exclusively magic) equipment would be a good thing.
What about my Oracle of Lore who carries around a Pathfinder Chronicle (+2 on a knowledge check) for every knowledge skill? Does that push the limits? (keep in mind, the character calls himself "The Holy Librarian of Abadar", and seeks to preserve knowledge and thus civilization)
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What about my Oracle of Lore who carries around a Pathfinder Chronicle (+2 on a knowledge check) for every knowledge skill? Does that push the limits? (keep in mind, the character calls himself "The Holy Librarian of Abadar", and seeks to preserve knowledge and thus civilization)
That is 10 and fits with the theme of the character. Does the playerbase really want me to place a hardcap or can people just use common sense and make sure it fits their character. For example, my own bard may have use for 6-8 masterwork tools eventually. My 11th level fighter has no need for any. All I am asking is people be sensible about it.
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That is 10 and fits with the theme of the character. Does the playerbase really want me to place a hardcap or can people just use common sense and make sure it fits their character. For example, my own bard may have use for 6-8 masterwork tools eventually. My 11th level fighter has no need for any. All I am asking is people be sensible about it.
What about my Oracle of Lore who carries around a Pathfinder Chronicle (+2 on a knowledge check) for every knowledge skill? Does that push the limits? (keep in mind, the character calls himself "The Holy Librarian of Abadar", and seeks to preserve knowledge and thus civilization)
To be honest Mike, even with my local group knowing of this from years ago, no one has abused it yet, and I have some serious min-maxers. So, I doubt it's really necessary.
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I would just ask not be over reactive. If there are thousands and thousands of players, there is bound to be a handful that are going to push boundaries in any number of ways, but it doesn't necessarily mean something is an epidemic problem.
Overreactive would be me coming here and stating limit 10, end of discussion, instead of leaving it up to the common sense of the playerbase to make sure the amount of masterwork tools fits the theme of the character. As I said above, I'm trying to give the playerbase more freedom and less restrictions. Just don't make me regret it.
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Can he buy a Masterwork Tool for Disable device? (cost 50gp. and 1 lb. weight)?
That's called Masterwork Thieves' Tools. I'd be careful when the item in question has already been given its own entry. Masterwork Tools for Heal, Disguise, Climb, etc have their own entries in the Core Rules. My opinion; abuse would be using a MW tool (which is cheaper) in lieu of that item. I'm not suggesting nosig was attempting to do this.
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Not carrying 26 masterwork tools when you are only trained in 8 skills :)Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)
Would a decent idea be you can't use masterwork tools in PFS unless you have at least 1 rank in the skill? That allows skill monkey types to pretend to be batman, while preventing a player from cheesing it out for all skills.
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Would a decent idea be you can't use masterwork tools in PFS unless you have at least 1 rank in the skill? That allows skill monkey types to pretend to be batman, while preventing a player from cheesing it out for all skills.Not carrying 26 masterwork tools when you are only trained in 8 skills :)Is there a rule for Common Sense?... ;)
I'd rather see players exercise some self-control rather than add another entry to the FAQ or in the Guide to PFS Organized Play.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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There are some fine items on Chronicles that are both more specific and more expensive than a masterwork tool.
for example, a Chelaxian book costs 100 gp and gives +1 to Knowledge (planes) when identifying devils. It is poitless when people are carrying around 50 gp books that give +2 bonus to all Knowledge (planes) checks.
Bearing in mind that masterwork tools provide a circumstance bonus, and circumstance bonuses stack, would the Chelaxian book stack with the masterwork tools?
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It's not RAW but it's fairly common sense that a tool must be equipped to be used. That will cut down alot on the in-combat shenanigans an extra +2 to a skill check might cause.
If your table's dazzling display/shatter defenses fighter is willing to go without a 2h weapon or a shield to use his Intimidate mwk Tool for a +2 circ. bonus, is it really breaking the game?