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Hey everybody, there didn't seem to be a thread of this nature yet! Let's use this thread talk about our methodology, or lack thereof, would be for each round of the competition.
For round one, creating a wondrous item, my approach was something along the lines of:
2) Create a notepad document and brainvomit all of my associations with each object as well as common, uncommon, and unheard of uses for them. Think up a general flavor for each: alluring? film noir? forest spirit-y? bestial? outer spacey? I choose the item slot and weight here.
3) Do research on Golarian lore for deities, famous characters, regions, locales, events, etc... that could be associated with the object's flavor. I feel like this step is important because this background stuff can lead you to expand your flavor/mechanical decisions and really cement your object as fitting in the context of the world. You don't necessarily have to refer to these things in the finished product, but it will add a sense of depth. This is also when I really decide what the item actually, you know, does. I come up with a tentative name.
4) Browse the spell lists for spells that fit functionally or thematically with the object. I'll pick anything that sounds like it might work, and then pare the list down to 5 spells or less. The finished object will ideally use three spells or less.
5) Write the item description. I like the balance of one mid-length sentence describing the object in terms of appearance and background. The rest is all mechanics with a bit flavorful elaboration. I feel like an item should have no more than four or so functions, and really, less might be desirable. Try to write it in a way that each function seems somehow related to the core idea, and to each other.
6) Based on flavor and mechanics, I choose ONE spell for each major function of the object, and apply them to the construction requirements (remember, alphabetical order! Spell names in italics!). Try to pick spells that are appropriate for the level character that will be using it. I pick the school of magic that most closely matches the function and spells of the object and apply that to the aura, I pretty much play the aura strength by ear. I base caster level on the lowest possible level to cast all the required spells, and balance that with whatever level the characters using the item are likely to be.
7) Price. Honestly, all I do is go to the Pathfinder SRD's list of wondrous objects and price it within spitting distance of an item that I would consider trading this one for. It's not TOO hard, I calculate the price as best I can using the CRB rules as well, just to verify.
8) Revise. Revise. Revise. Sit on it. Revise some more. Pick an actual name.
And that's it for me! What about you guys?
Star Voter Season 6
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Hey everybody, there didn't seem to be a thread of this nature yet! Let's use this thread talk about our methodology, or lack thereof, would be for each round of the competition.
For round one, creating a wondrous item, my approach was something along the lines of:
** spoiler omitted **...
I just thought of a spell that should be attached to an item, but isn't. And then I made it and calculated the price.
It is very similar to how Ian McKellen acts so well.
In regards to Hodge Podge's #7, on pricing- You can end up spending as much time figuring out the price of an item as you do designing. Even the Paizo staff will tell you it is as much art as science (they described it that way in a thread from last year). My advice is pretty similiar to the OPs, take your item and compare it to something similiar in the rulebook and see how it matches up. Also, keep in mind, is it so cheap that everyone would buy one or is it so expensive no one would buy it for what it does.
As for my design process, sometimes I find it helpful to watch a lot of fantasy/historical films and shows. Sometimes I see a character do something or get an item that triggers an idea for a cool feat or item. And if doesn't, it at least gets me in the mood to create!
In regards to Hodge Podge's #7, on pricing- You can end up spending as much time figuring out the price of an item as you do designing. Even the Paizo staff will tell you it is as much art as science (they described it that way in a thread from last year). My advice is pretty similiar to the OPs, take your item and compare it to something similiar in the rulebook and see how it matches up. Also, keep in mind, is it so cheap that everyone would buy one or is it so expensive no one would buy it for what it does.
As for my design process, sometimes I find it helpful to watch a lot of fantasy/historical films and shows. Sometimes I see a character do something or get an item that triggers an idea for a cool feat or item. And if doesn't, it at least gets me in the mood to create!
I think I may have spent more time on pricing than the actual design and writing of the item last year. In the end I just ball-parked it.
I think I may have spent more time on pricing than the actual design and writing of the item last year. In the end I just ball-parked it.In regards to Hodge Podge's #7, on pricing- You can end up spending as much time figuring out the price of an item as you do designing. Even the Paizo staff will tell you it is as much art as science (they described it that way in a thread from last year). My advice is pretty similiar to the OPs, take your item and compare it to something similiar in the rulebook and see how it matches up. Also, keep in mind, is it so cheap that everyone would buy one or is it so expensive no one would buy it for what it does.
As for my design process, sometimes I find it helpful to watch a lot of fantasy/historical films and shows. Sometimes I see a character do something or get an item that triggers an idea for a cool feat or item. And if doesn't, it at least gets me in the mood to create!
Last year, I had a lot of items needing pricing before I moved onto the next one!
In regards to Hodge Podge's #7, on pricing- You can end up spending as much time figuring out the price of an item as you do designing.
I think I may have spent more time on pricing than the actual design and writing of the item last year. In the end I just ball-parked it.
Pretty much ditto for me. It took about the same amount of time to price as to write out everything else. I ended up scrapping my initial attempts and just went the "this seems about right-ish" route.
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After making your wondrous item, show it to a gamer friend and ask, "How could you abuse this?" They will find things that you would not even think of. Most of the time, a simple rewording will take out much of the wiggle room.
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Right now I'm in the "Write down as many ideas as I can think of" stage, not just a name but a rough description and quick ideas for spells to base it off of.
Tomorrow I cull mercilessly, and revise the survivors.
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Man writing down even my bad ideas in the appropriate format feels good. Helps me recognize problems thanks to the scrutiny. I think I'm still too married to my first idea to see it clearly, but I think it's really solid. Does something nothing else does while avoiding the common pit-falls of other items that have attempted this niche.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Star Voter Season 6
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After making your wondrous item, show it to a gamer friend and ask, "How could you abuse this?" They will find things that you would not even think of. Most of the time, a simple rewording will take out much of the wiggle room.
+1 this. It was actually a non-gamer (who after I explained how CLW works) who pointed out the 'potion factor' potential of the tankard.
"So he could just sit at home, making this turn wine into healing potions all day?""Oh $#!%"
As to my creative process...
Hot showers to get the brain flowing.
Idea pops in head.
More hot water to price it out.
(Important!) Get out of shower before writing it on the computer.
Proof read it while drying (me, not the computer)
Get dressed.
Send it to friends to edit/proofread.
Let it sit for a few days to age well.
Back in the shower to work on exploits.
If I had a waterproof computer I might be a contributer (and a little pruney)
+1 to this whole thread.
Given me some great ideas on how to revise my items.
Interesting, that's not the first time I've heard about musing in the shower.
Guess my process is a bit more haphazard. Short version, wait until something congeals from the murky soup I call a mind. Long version, take inspiration from old ideas, what ever I've watched/read/drawn recently, bounce them around for a bit, let something spark, and see what flares up.
Step One: Look for (non-technological) wondrous items in my real life that are not represented in the game.
Step Two: Mull.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8
aka Jiggy
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Step 1: Discover that RPG Superstar even exists, and read the rules to it.
Step 2: Fret about whether or not I have a chance and if I should try or if I'll just disappoint myself etc etc etc. Defeatist thinking in general.
Step 3: Submit the first random thing that comes to mind.
Step 4: Wonder whether my item already exists under a different name and I just hadn't heard of it before. Simultaneously, repeat Step 2, ad nauseam.
Aaaaaand that's my process in a nutshell. Total elapsed time from the beginning of Step 1 to completing Step 3 was like, 24 hours. Step 3 in particular was today's lunch break. Step 4 will be repeated continuously until results are revealed.
Interesting. It seems a lot of people here start with the physical item, then ask "what can it do?"
I start with "what do I want something to do?" then try and figure out what sort of physical shape to tie it to.
Interesting. It seems a lot of people here start with the physical item, then ask "what can it do?"
I start with "what do I want something to do?" then try and figure out what sort of physical shape to tie it to.
Either way can work, really; in my case, both of my items were created on opposite ends of this philosophy. (My 2010 entry was 'what item would carry off the effect I want to create'; 2011 was 'what effect should this specific item have?')
Developer
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8
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My process last year for my smoldering sack was "how could I make a bag of coals a cool magic item?" Usually, I come up with a theme or cool concept from the rules that I'd like to explore and make an item based around that, so the sack was an exception.
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Smoldering sack? You should probably get that checked out.
I start with "what do I want something to do?" then try and figure out what sort of physical shape to tie it to.
I do the same thing.
I feel that, while a superstar item should be cool and well designed, a truly superstar item needs to have, above all, a reason someone will want it. And in that vein, a niche to fill.
I recollect about old games I've played, and times my players or myself have asked "Hey, you know what would be awesome to do, but I can't..."
Because in those cases, you wind up with an effect, that you know people somewhere are looking to get. And if the judges say "dude, I totally need that item in my game", I think they're more likely to advance you.
Not that I've gotten through yet, but I'm working on it. :p
Inspired in the shower? Maybe you should have this..
Smoldering sack? You should probably get that checked out.
You sure that wasn't a cursed item?
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Star Voter Season 7
aka primemover003
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I usually look through new material to see if there are any new mechanics that seem interesting or I try to base items around actions that don't see much play. Other times I look to fill item slots that don't have many existing items.
Sometimes I just look at ideas or products from Paizo coming down the pipe and try and run with those themes. My Grave Robber archetype from last year was inspired by the Carrion Crown AP.
--Writer's Vrock
For an item, when I play or gm, I kinda tend to think about things I really wish I had at certain moments. Not that I have anything in italics that say anything impressive next to my name or whatever.
When something pops into my head, I let it stay there for a while. If it is a good idea, my mind will continue to come back to it and then I jot it down, usually on a bookmark, teabag wrapper, receipt or whatever is handy.
Those ideas that still stay with me, usually somewhere in the five miles walking the dogs or to work, get reworked and fine-tuned in my head. Then they make it into a notebook.
The notebook stuff gets turned into a sentence and a name on a word doc. I have several different sheets for items, stories, characters, and scenes/encounters, (and one for RPGSS if you really want to know my geek-pravity :).
When I write (almost daily :) I have a list of things waiting to be enriched. I start with an outline (it worked for all those college papers right?) and keep adding to it for about an hour or two a day. That usually lasts for a week or ten days a project.
I often set things down for a week before doing a rewrite (and work on other projects in the meantime). In the case of RPGSS this includes the formatting, spell research, pricing and what not. For those of you following the Blazing Items thread, you can definitely tell which have not been given a break before rewriting.
A bit of advice for the rewrite: I always try to pare down and simplify things. Throwing crap out is the hardest part. Honestly, it cannae be crap if I wrote it! Right? Wrong and it has to be done and the rewrite is the (first) time to do it.
Now inspiration... well that is a different story altogether, and I can already tell you skipped the first three paragraphs 'cause I can hear the ZZZzzz's...
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My creative process;
Step 1; try and fail to get to sleep, while stuff randomly pops into my head and entire worlds are born and die
Step 2; get frustrated and write some of the stuff down, so that it stops echoing around in my skull
Step 3; wake up and find a barely readable pile of gobbledigook on my bedstand
Step 4; decipher said gibberish and say, 'Hey, this one's pretty cool!'
That's pretty much it. I don't sit down and think 'I'm gonna create something!' I'm a complete hostage to my creativity, and I just have to write what the voices in my head tell me to write, or they won't let me sleep.
I tend toward a brain-storming approach. I'll sit with an empty page and jot down things that run through my head. Eventually, columns of notes will get longer and more detailed, lending to developing something from that train of thought.
RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Champion Voter Season 6, Champion Voter Season 7, Champion Voter Season 8, Champion Voter Season 9
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My creative process;
Step 1; try and fail to get to sleep, while stuff randomly pops into my head and entire worlds are born and die
Step 2; get frustrated and write some of the stuff down, so that it stops echoing around in my skull
Step 3; wake up and find a barely readable pile of gobbledigook on my bedstand
Step 4; decipher said gibberish and say, 'Hey, this one's pretty cool!'
Close to mine except I occasionally have a couple extra steps.
2.1 Wake in the middle of a night to a nightmare spawned around the idea. Go back to bed without writing.
4.1 Try to remember the dream and fail
5. Lie in bed failing to sleep cause I can't remember dream from the previous night.
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Star Voter Season 6
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Amazingly the core concept of my item came to me whole cloth in a moment of inspiration the same day I found out about the contest. The idea seemed so obvious I needed to double check myself and check my extensive DnD/PF library to validate it was a new idea. And lucky for me it is.
I have been tweaking over the past few days and spent some time to calculate the cost/price. In a few weeks I will be play testing it and then submit it.
I feel surprisingly confident despite it being my first attempt in this contest. However, even if I don't make it to the 32, I am still enjoying myself.
My entry is 300 words exactly according to MS Word 2003. Does anyone now how that number that will compare to the content submittal tool? Should I cut it down just in case?
It will be close. To be safe I would do a wee bit o'paring. The difference will come in the BBC coding which sometimes counts as a word and sometimes not in Word. ymmv :)
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16
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Marathon Voter Season 6, Marathon Voter Season 7, Marathon Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Locke1520
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My entry is 300 words exactly according to MS Word 2003. Does anyone now how that number that will compare to the content submittal tool? Should I cut it down just in case?It will be close. To be safe I would do a wee bit o'paring. The difference will come in the BBC coding which sometimes counts as a word and sometimes not in Word. ymmv :)
Which is why when I type my ideas up I include all of the formatting in word. That way if it miscounts it will err on the long side.
As for my process it varies from item to item: While pairing down my entries for this year I had names...objects...effects...interesting nonsense all compiled on a notepad and worked at a couple. I was surprised that the first idea was the one that I used...but not in the way I had expected.
Today's creative process:
Soaked in the tub for about a half hour, reading Arthur C. Clarke. During that time, I came up with ideas for a half dozen items. Summarily discarded two, leaving four to write up and choose between. (Nothing based on anything in the Clarke book, but I find reading great writing helps light a fire to get the creative cauldron bubbling.
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Vendor - Fantasiapelit Tampere
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Sauna is a great place to think these things. Both of my ideas were good. I writed them both down, talked about it with my brother and then slept over night. At the morning, the other idea seeme d lot better. Little fixing and I was done. I had three item ideas-one bad, two good.Now that I have submitted my item I'm nervous as hell! Now I have to start thinking about the next round...
Marathon Voter Season 6
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My entry is 300 words exactly according to MS Word 2003. Does anyone now how that number that will compare to the content submittal tool? Should I cut it down just in case?
You need to be careful in protecting the anonymity of your entry. It is most likely best not to discuss precise word counts of your entry or any indication of the time that you submitted it, just to be sure.
I would just use the tool provided and preview your entry to see how many words it is. This is what the judges will see and act upon. I can understand that it might feel like the black hole of doom when you press the submit your item button on the front page but it just goes to a usual submit post box. Just press preview or cancel, but don't hit submit; that's all.
Best Regards
Herremann the Wise
Just press preview or cancel, but don't hit submit; that's all.
And right before you submit, if you are the anxious type, I would suggest you make a print screen of your submission in case you feel the need to go back and check what it is that you actually sent to the judges.
Just a thought. ;)
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Star Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
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I planned three items, and rejected the first two. I'll discuss them.
The first was a simple consumabe item akin to a flash grenade that made the user hidden. The train of thought was simple: Paizo was reworking how Stealth worked and adding a new condition. I loved the idea and thought it would be fun to add more content that plays with the Hidden condition.
Rejected that idea as Hidden is still unofficial and thus against the rules of the contest.
But that didn't occur to me until "go time" and the latest errata. So I needed a new item.
Walking to work and listening to a PF podcast (Know Direction) I was also trying to think of a new item. I passed a HUGE tree and thought a tree item would be neat. There's a seige going on in my homegame, and the thought of magical trees being used to weaken walls or act as a ladder was fun. Or planting it and triggering the tree underneath an enemy entangling them atop a tree. And terrain is always fun at the table: instant cover!
Then, when researching, I found a feather token that did the same thing.
I used an iPad app you search for keywords. Very handy, but the PRD should do the same thing.
RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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Throughout the year, I consider magic item ideas I see in movies or novels or on artwork. Then I look for needs in the game - areas that haven't received as much attention. Like when I'm making a character and keep thinking 'these guys don't have enough love yet'.
Closer to Superstar time, I list several rough drafts for items, get some feedback from friends I have done design work with, get them all hammered or made fun of, and go back to the drawing board. This year, I have no less than half a dozen 'good but not great items' and one very cinematic item with tons of mechanical difficulties. So they're all fired and I'm writing new items this week while also formulating ideas for organizations and the best darn monsters I can come up with.
Regarding an entry exactly 300 words, I'd question why. Did you have to stop there? because it likely needs tightening up. Did you think the original entry was too short? If your item is great and rock star, concise will impress judges even more. Be sure not to get dinged on excessive flavor, or redundancies with the rules that take up page space unnecessarily (like saying 'upon command as a standard action').
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Star Voter Season 6
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Regarding an entry exactly 300 words, I'd question why. Did you have to stop there? because it likely needs tightening up. Did you think the original entry was too short? If your item is great and rock star, concise will impress judges even more. Be sure not to get dinged on excessive flavor, or redundancies with the rules that take up page space unnecessarily (like saying 'upon command as a standard action').
Thank you! You are absolutely right, and I did trim my entry significantly. Additionally, I have reiterated some important details from a rule that I thought would be nice to not force the reader to have to look up. I did this because I saw a comment from a judge in a previous year's entry praising that in someone's entry. Is it best to remove such details?
It's unfortunate that you have to go back to the drawing board. Hope you are not short selling one of your exiting ideas.
My creative process entails generating an ever expanding list of ideas, slowly paring them down based on those that meet Sean's Auto-Reject criteria, and then obsessing over which few to direct my energies on; all the while struggling to squash the little voice inside my head telling me that none of them will be good enough anyways!
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Either way can work, really; in my case, both of my items were created on opposite ends of this philosophy. (My 2010 entry was 'what item would carry off the effect I want to create'; 2011 was 'what effect should this specific item have?')Interesting. It seems a lot of people here start with the physical item, then ask "what can it do?"
I start with "what do I want something to do?" then try and figure out what sort of physical shape to tie it to.
Yeah I used one approach in 2010 and another in 2011. In 2010 I envisioned something that I thought was cool and that I wanted my PC to have -- the squid ship. For that item, I envisioned the end product, and then came up with a unique way to activate it.
In 2011 I was DMing. I came up with what I thought was a cool game mechanic - an evil item that shut down divine channeling, for a price. Looking back, I see now why it got dinged for being too powerful and for creating a hazard. As a DM I envisioned the item as a cool thing for a villain to have and use in an encounter. This was a mistake, in retrospect -- similar to the plot point auto-reject warning. I was too attached to the item, and didn't get any critical feedback on how abusive and narrowly focused it was.
I think either approach is valid, but you should create an item that would be awesome to get as treasure or to buy and put on your equipment sheet: either because it's a really cool thing to have, or does something really cool. Try not to get so attached to the item that you overlook flaws. And try to run it by a couple people to see if it can be abused or if it can be made simpler.
Yeah I used one approach in 2010 and another in 2011. In 2010 I envisioned something that I thought was cool and that I wanted my PC to have -- the squid ship. For that item, I envisioned the end product, and then came up with a unique way to activate it.Either way can work, really; in my case, both of my items were created on opposite ends of this philosophy. (My 2010 entry was 'what item would carry off the effect I want to create'; 2011 was 'what effect should this specific item have?')Interesting. It seems a lot of people here start with the physical item, then ask "what can it do?"
I start with "what do I want something to do?" then try and figure out what sort of physical shape to tie it to.
Sidetracking completely, that's still one of my favorite items- if I were to ever make a personal top 10 out of all the contests to date, that would be on it. In fact, before the full villain round rules were announced and the CR5 or under requirement was known, one of my ideas was a drow pirate using a vessel of the deep. (Why a drow? Because it's still bloody dark underwater and it's a totally unexpected place for one to pop up.)
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32
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Sidetracking completely, that's still one of my favorite items- if I were to ever make a personal top 10 out of all the contests to date, that would be on it. In fact, before the full villain round rules were announced and the CR5 or under requirement was known, one of my ideas was a drow pirate using a vessel of the deep. (Why a drow? Because it's still bloody dark underwater and it's a totally unexpected place for one to pop up.)
ha thanks! That would have been pretty sweet. Feel free if you write another PFS. :) (looking forward to playing your adventure)
Now back to the regularly-scheduled thread. Huge props to the OP for starting this thread.
Does anyone sketch their concepts? I'm thinking about doing that this year as part of the narrowing down process.
@marv, yeah I would refer to universal rules or a spell when possible. For example, "Once per day this simple wool robe allows you to assume the form of another humanoid creature, as if using alter self."
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 8
aka Tarren Dei
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I tend to spend a lot more time brainstorming than I do writing. If I was doing this again, I'd probably start with a grid with character classes across the top and goals down the side and then brainstorm ideas to help with each. Then I'd choose several I liked and think about the feeling I'd want to associate with them, brainstorming a few adjectives for each. Then, I'd work on the mechanics. Along the way, I'd jot notes, but I'd leave the writing until the end.
I'd say my brainstorming/mechanics time is ten times my writing time.
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Star Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Star Voter Season 9
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Brainstorming. Came up with idea around a particular item which I love, based kinda on something I remembered from Irish Mythology. Finds it conflicts with one of Neil's advice of things not to do. While it 'breaks' his rule it does so in a way that just might pass muster.
So I consider keeping it.
Came up with idea mark two that does something totally different but related and uses a lot of the same flavor and requirements.
Consider adding a subset of powers and decide that would make a good item in and of itself, which leads me to the third version. Decide to go with that. Watch a scene of The Tudors that invokes the tone I have in mind for what it is like to be under said item's effects.
Decide Sarah Bolger is an absolutely beautiful. Muse on this pleasantly and realize it is distracting me from writing.
Keep the music from that scene repeating as I write the flavor text for what I think will be the final version.
Consider adding a subset of powers and decide that would make a good item in and of itself, which leads me to the third version. Decide to go with that. Watch a scene of The Tudors that invokes the tone I have in mind for what it is like to be under said item's effects.
Hah, funny. I watched a lot of Tudors last year when I was in the contest, thank you Netflix. In fact, I had it on last night when I was writing. I hate writing in a silent house, so I like a little TV or music playing in the background. Also, sandalwood scented candles by Yankee Candles fires up the brain.
For me it is usually a mix of things, like others state above I get inspired from movies, books, TV shows... and sometimes something just leaps out at me and I wonder, "Why isn't something like this already in the game?"
Then I consider how to go about making this idea an item.
I go through several drafts, (and in-between leave it for a few days, come back to it - polish/rewrite until satisfied).
I them take the plunge and submit.
Then I fret every time Clark, or Neil, or Sean, or Ryan make mention of something that someone did with their submission and I worry that it was mine. :P ***Except for the "over word count" discussion... I know without a shadow of a doubt... mine wasn't near over 300.*** :) So, whew - one thing went right. ;)
Dean