Though the below scenario is hypothetical only, I have had similar experiences on more than one occasion:
An extremely intelligent character (an alchemist perhaps), fleeing from an enemy, attempts to climb a wall. He makes a successful climb check and, due to only being able to move 1/4 his speed, falls just short of making it over. His enemy catches up to him and...
Player: Oh wait! I have boots of speed! Had I activated those than I would have had more than enough movement to get over the wall and to safety! My character, being so intelligent, would never forget something so simple.
GM: Sorry, but no. You've already made the climb check, expended the movement, and we've practically started the NPC's turn.
Player: But it doesn't make any logical in-game sense to do it that way. My character bought these boots specifically to escape situations such as this. He shouldn't be punished because I momentarily forgot about them out of game.
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I have had GMs rule in my favor, as well as against me, in similar situations. I'm curious to know how you feel on the matter, both as a player and as a GM.
Would you let a player go back "just a little" to preserve verisimilitude? Would you be upset if your GM made your smart/wise/charismatic character look like a dumb schmuck just because you had a momentary brain-fart?
Just how much might you let slide? Would you slide back momentarily if the player only remembered in the middle of someone else's turn? Would you let the change actions altogether (possibly forcing re-rolls of some kind) if it made more sense to do so from the character's perspective? Where should a GM draw the line? In what situations should a player speak up, or shut up?
Well, you have two issues at play here. One is the old deal where the character is smarter or wiser or more charismatic than the player playing him.
The other is when a player tries to backtrack. I think we all deal with these situations at one time or another.
For the backtracking, I don't allow it, generally. Especially not in a situation as you've described. But I do sometimes allow it if/when I (the GM) have made a major oversight or mistake, or misunderstood the player's intent. Never when the player just didn't think of something.
Which brings us to the other issue, which is that often our characters have INT or WIS 18, but we as players do not. I do keep those kinds of stats in mind, and I don't mind hinting to players that it might be time for a roll, or maybe they are forgetting something that their character wouldn't, and then allow them a few minutes to figure it out. Similarly, I will let the other players give their opinions, or help the player of the exceptionally brilliant character out. After all, those smarts have to be simulated in some way. May as well let the other players contribute, and then let the "genius" speak the words, give the answer to the riddle, or push the right button, etc.
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For the backtracking, I don't allow it, generally. Especially not in a situation as you've described. But I do sometimes allow it if/when I (the GM) have made a major oversight or mistake, or misunderstood the player's intent. Never when the player just didn't think of something.
How is that not a double standard? The GM can backtrack when he makes a mistake, but the players can't? That's nothing if not unfair.
On another note: What if it was a passive thing the player forgot about, something that wouldn't be effected by choice. Say, example, the character had 40 foot movement (enough to get over the wall), but the player, having been accustomed to 30-foot speed character, simply forgot and should never have been on the wrong side of the wall.
What if an attack hits the character because the player forgot that he was the beneficiary of haste? What if he, moments later after damage has been applied, tells the GM he forgot about the extra +1. That's not something the character can choose or not choose to activate. Once haste is cast, it effects the game world. Period.
Fine, make up some scenario where it would be absolutely illogical for a character to forget (or do, or don't do) something, resulting in in-game punishment, just because the player couldn't remember or didn't know. By all means, pick any scenario that is more palatable to your sensibilities. It seems obvious my first choice was a bad one. However, my point of discussion stills stands.
How about this one: The player makes a bad decision for his character based on incomplete information (this happens to me ALL THE TIME as I am hearing impaired). Once the root of the problem is brought to light out of game* should the character (who had all the information all along) be punished just because the player didn't?
* "Wait, the emperor is IN the room with us? Well, then I DON'T call him a two-faced bigot." :P
Fine, make up some scenario where it would be absolutely illogical for a character to forget something, resulting in in-game punishment, just because the player couldn't remember. By all means, pick any scenario that is more palatable to your sensibilities. It seems obvious my first choice was a bad one. However, my point of discussion stills stands.
Wizard casts elemental form: fire.
Wizard gets in a fight with a red dragon and dies to its breath weapon, forgetting immunity to fire.
Wizard then remembers and goes oh wait I didn't die then.
Fine, make up some scenario where it would be absolutely illogical for a character to forget something, resulting in in-game punishment, just because the player couldn't remember. By all means, pick any scenario that is more palatable to your sensibilities. It seems obvious my first choice was a bad one. However, my point of discussion stills stands.Wizard casts elemental form: fire.
Wizard gets in a fight with a red dragon and dies to its breath weapon, forgetting immunity to fire.
Wizard then remembers and goes oh wait I didn't die then.
That's a good one, though elemental body (that's what you meant, right?) only grants resist 20.
Still, it's easy enough to say the breath weapon wouldn't have done enough damage to kill him had the player remembered that.
That's the one. I didn't look it up.
For the backtracking, I don't allow it, generally. Especially not in a situation as you've described. But I do sometimes allow it if/when I (the GM) have made a major oversight or mistake, or misunderstood the player's intent. Never when the player just didn't think of something.How is that not a double standard? The GM can backtrack when he makes a mistake, but the players can't? That's nothing if not unfair.
On another note: What if it was a passive thing the player forgot about, something that wouldn't be effected by choice. Say, example, the character had 40 foot movement (enough to get over the wall), but the player, having been accustomed to 30-foot speed character, simply forgot and should never have been on the wrong side of the wall.
What if an attack hits the character because the player forgot that he was the beneficiary of haste? What if he, moments later after damage has been applied, tells the GM he forgot about the extra +1. That's not something the character can choose or not choose to activate. Once haste is cast, it effects the game world. Period.
You didn't read what I wrote. I said that I allow backtracking if the bad thing THAT HAPPENED TO THE PLAYER OR TO THE CHARACTER WAS MY FAULT - "that I misunderstood the player's intent."
I said nothing about backtracking when I screwed up something for a monster or NPC. Remember, we're talking about backtracking for A PC, NOT FOR A MONSTER. Re-read what I said in that context.
If you want to see two great examples of why backtracking by player wish after players forget something is a bad idea, watch The Gamers. Once the precedent is set, everybody tends to think that they can demand the GM replay any situation where they did not like the outcome.
You didn't read what I wrote. I said that I allow backtracking if the bad thing THAT HAPPENED TO THE PLAYER OR TO THE CHARACTER WAS MY FAULT - "that I misunderstood the player's intent."
I said nothing about backtracking when I screwed up something for a monster or NPC. Remember, we're talking about backtracking for A PC, NOT FOR A MONSTER. Re-read what I said in that context.
If you want to see two great examples of why backtracking by player wish after players forget something is a bad idea, watch The Gamers. Once the precedent is set, everybody tends to think that they can demand the GM replay any situation where they did not like the outcome.
I did read it in that exact context. I was saying that it is STILL a double-standard.
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On another note: What if it was a passive thing the player forgot about, something that wouldn't be effected by choice. Say, example, the character had 40 foot movement (enough to get over the wall), but the player, having been accustomed to 30-foot speed character, simply forgot and should never have been on the wrong side of the wall.
What if an attack hits the character because the player forgot that he was the beneficiary of haste? What if he, moments later after damage has been applied, tells the GM he forgot about the extra +1. That's not something the character can choose or not choose to activate. Once haste is cast, it effects the game world. Period.
It's a game, not real life. It doesn't matter if "it would have really happened because of x". If the player forgets something, oh, well. The correlary is if the player forgets some plot point his character would know. If the player didn't take notes and forgets, oh, well.
I had a situation the last session my Kirthfinder group played where I forgot a couple of modifiers that would have affected the outcome slightly (I would have soloed an enemy wizard during the surprise round instead of having another character help with the kill). I realized it after the combat was over (and, gues what? one of the mods was haste!), but I didn't ask for anything to be changed. I just called myself a dummy a couple of times for forgetting.
You can't stop the game and ask for a "do over" if you forget stuff. It's your job to remember your mods and movement and equipment, not the Dm's and not the other players. Jusst deal with it, learn from it, and don't forget next time.
I have noticed a related effect, where as soon as a PC dies the players go over all the modifiers to make sure nothing was missed that might have saved them.
It's a game, not real life. It doesn't matter if "it would have really happened because of x". If the player forgets something, oh, well. The correlary is if the player forgets some plot point his character would know. If the player didn't take notes and forgets, oh, well.
I had a situation the last session my Kirthfinder group played where I forgot a couple of modifiers that would have affected the outcome slightly (I would have soloed an enemy wizard during the surprise round instead of having another character help with the kill). I realized it after the combat was over (and, gues what? one of the mods was haste!), but I didn't ask for anything to be changed. I just called myself a dummy a couple of times for forgetting.
You can't stop the game and ask for a "do over" if you forget stuff. It's your job to remember your mods and movement and equipment, not the Dm's and not the other players. Jusst deal with it, learn from it, and don't forget next time.
I can learn from my mistakes. I can work at not being forgetful. I CANNOT fix my hearing disability. That will be with me for the rest of my life.
Fine, make up some scenario where it would be absolutely illogical for a character to forget (or do, or don't do) something, resulting in in-game punishment, just because the player couldn't remember or didn't know. By all means, pick any scenario that is more palatable to your sensibilities. It seems obvious my first choice was a bad one. However, my point of discussion stills stands.
How about this one: The player makes a bad decision for his character based on incomplete information (this happens to me ALL THE TIME as I am hearing impaired). Once the root of the problem is brought to light out of game* should the character (who had all the information all along) be punished just because the player didn't?
* "Wait, the emperor is IN the room with us? Well, then I DON'T call him a two-faced bigot." :P
This is exactly what I was talking about when you misunderstood me and got mad at me. If I didn't make things clear, or there was a wild misunderstanding, or I clearly did not understand what a player was trying to accomplish, AND I MESSED THINGS UP FOR THEM, that is the only situation where I ALLOW A PC TO BACKTRACK.
That's totally different from when a player simply forgets they have a magic dagger, or that they put the change in their right pocket, or to activate their special boots.
The thing you have to get out of your mind is that just because the game has to move on, does not mean somebody is punishing you or your character. The GM has a lot to think of, too, and keeping the game moving for the other players is one of those things.
This is exactly what I was talking about when you misunderstood me and got mad at me. If I didn't make things clear, or there was a wild misunderstanding, or I clearly did not understand what a player was trying to accomplish, AND I MESSED THINGS UP FOR THEM, that is the only situation where I ALLOW A PC TO BACKTRACK.
That's totally different from when a player simply forgets they have a magic dagger, or that they put the change in their right pocket, or to activate their special boots.
The thing you have to get out of your mind is that just because the game has to move on, does not mean somebody is punishing you or your character. The GM has a lot to think of, too, and keeping the game moving for the other players is one of those things.
I am not, and was not, mad at you or anyone else in this thread. I even found your input quite useful to the discussion at hand.
This is exactly what I was talking about when you misunderstood me and got mad at me. If I didn't make things clear, or there was a wild misunderstanding, or I clearly did not understand what a player was trying to accomplish, AND I MESSED THINGS UP FOR THEM, that is the only situation where I ALLOW A PC TO BACKTRACK.
In that case, you and I likely would have rules similarly as GMs.
I did read it in that exact context. I was saying that it is STILL a double-standard.You didn't read what I wrote. I said that I allow backtracking if the bad thing THAT HAPPENED TO THE PLAYER OR TO THE CHARACTER WAS MY FAULT - "that I misunderstood the player's intent."
I said nothing about backtracking when I screwed up something for a monster or NPC. Remember, we're talking about backtracking for A PC, NOT FOR A MONSTER. Re-read what I said in that context.
If you want to see two great examples of why backtracking by player wish after players forget something is a bad idea, watch The Gamers. Once the precedent is set, everybody tends to think that they can demand the GM replay any situation where they did not like the outcome.
I can't imagine you know what I am saying and are saying it is a double standard.
If as GM, I mess things up for the character and player through my own buffoonery, it is only fair that I make it up somehow. It is clearly not the fault of the player that I am a dummy.
If the player forgets something, that is not my fault. Further, allowing a "do-over" every time a player forgets something leads to nothing but do-overs for the rest of the game.
If anything, I am being overly nice. I definitely am being fair. If this is a double standard, the only person it hurts is me.
I stand corrected, Bruunwald.
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I can learn from my mistakes. I can work at not being forgetful. I CANNOT fix my hearing disability. That will be with me for the rest of my life.It's a game, not real life. It doesn't matter if "it would have really happened because of x". If the player forgets something, oh, well. The correlary is if the player forgets some plot point his character would know. If the player didn't take notes and forgets, oh, well.
I had a situation the last session my Kirthfinder group played where I forgot a couple of modifiers that would have affected the outcome slightly (I would have soloed an enemy wizard during the surprise round instead of having another character help with the kill). I realized it after the combat was over (and, gues what? one of the mods was haste!), but I didn't ask for anything to be changed. I just called myself a dummy a couple of times for forgetting.
You can't stop the game and ask for a "do over" if you forget stuff. It's your job to remember your mods and movement and equipment, not the Dm's and not the other players. Jusst deal with it, learn from it, and don't forget next time.
What, of any of the above, has to do with a hearing disability? What does having a hearing disability have to do with knowing or not knowing your movement rate? Or whether you cast haste? Or you haven't activated your boots of speed?
The only thing I see that you have a point on in this whole thread is the king being in the room thing, and even there, if your group knows about your disability, they should make sure you know what's going on before you act. That's maybe the only one that a "do over" makes any sense with.
What, of any of the above, has to do with a hearing disability? What does having a hearing disability have to do with knowing or not knowing your movement rate? Or whether you cast haste? Or you haven't activated your boots of speed?
The only thing I see that you have a point on in this whole thread is the king being in the room thing, and even there, if your group knows about your disability, they should make sure you know what's going on before you act. That's maybe the only one that a "do over" makes any sense with.
Sorry for moving the goal posts around. My initial example really was TERRIBLE.
My group DOES know about my disability, but over the years, they've slowly gotten tired of hearing about it. After I've missed an important detail for the Nth time, the truth of my dilemma doesn't really make much difference. I'm simply "interrupting the flow of the game again." My plight simply falls on deaf ears.
The fact that I always wear my hearing aids, make sure I'm using fresh batteries, sit as close to the GM as possible, etc. means little to them. Even though I'm certain I cut down on the number of times I miss something, it doesn't really matter. It's happened enough already that when it DOES happen it grates on their nerves every single time, and I'm shown less and less leniency for it.
As long as there was no roll involved I'm ok with it. If you say, rolled to jump and could have made it but didn't , then say "oh right.. mayby i should have used some rounds off my boots of speed...." sorry, wave hi to Randolf and the batezu on the way down.
Every 10 points of Intelligence a monster or character has over 10 grants them a "Oh, my character is smart enough to know not to do that" every once in a reasonable while.
Every 10 points of Intelligence a monster or character has over 10 grants them a "Oh, my character is smart enough to know not to do that" every once in a reasonable while.
I'm not one for hard-coded house rules in situations such as these, but seeing as most of my characters have 20 or 30 intelligence, I would probably do pretty well under such a rule.
if you invert the hypothetical scenario:
the 7 int Barbarian jumps over the wall using his boots of speed and makes it, thereafter the GM says "wait, I forgot, you might have forgotten to use them, make an int check to remember your boots of speed, if you fail, you can't have climbed the wall".
This seems obviously bad. So I believe that if the player forgets something, it's his fault and no backsies. He should be grateful not to get bashed for bad roleplaying of his int. (altough one could argue that a player with a "14" int can't roleplay an 18 int)
However the GM could help the player beforehand like "make an int-check and I give you a hint what you might have forgotten", but he doesn't have to.
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I've twice had the chance to experience having someone with a hearing deficiency.. across the GM screen once each way.
When I was the GM, I was running a murder/mystery, it was a roleplaying (and clue collection/realization) intense adventure. I was worried that stressing that the important clues were heard by everyone would end up giving 'footstomp' metagame giveaways to the important clues..
But I found that it didn't give the mystery away.
On the other hand, maybe it worked out for us because I was so conscious about keeping a poorly-acquainted, newly-met gamer on the same page as everyone else.
If you've gamed with these guys for so long, maybe talking to them away from the game table to remind them of the occasional troubles with hearing AT the table might help refresh their sympathies/sensitivities. Friends can be surprisingly callous with each other.. sometimes things slide inch by inch and the offender doesn't realize how much he begins to offend.
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When I run games my rule is that you have right up until the next character (pc or NPC) starts his turn to mention stuff like that. Because the real problem is that sometimes a player does not remember this stuff for several turns. Then it has a cascade effect.
My wizard would have not cast haste then
Oh, if he would have gotten away my fighter would have never come back to help him.
I try to make it up to the players on their turn if it was my fault. If it was their fault I put it on them.
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It depends on the play style of the group involved.
But,....
I am a FIRM believer that the PC knows far more about itself than the Player does. A PC wouldn't do something stupid, even if the Player would.
Just because I don't know about bad mushrooms doesn't mean my Druid PC doesn't know about mushrooms, duh. So if the DM says I have to make a Fort Save cuz the mushrooms I just picked for dinner are poisonous I would say Bull S*&&, my Druid knows what a bad mushroom is!
Just because I forgot all the little stuff on my PC sheet because it's been two weeks since I've even thought about D&D, including the Boots, my PC HASN'T, duh.
I'm only my PC for a few hours each week and I'm not a heroic adventurer. My PC is the PC ALL THE TIME and IS a heroic adventurer.
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In the real world even Geniuses remember how to chew gum and breathe at the same time.
In the real world carpenters don't forget which end of the hammer hammers the nails.
to add a more ridiculous but real example that happened to a friend:
his bard climbed a tree to be the lookout, 2 minutes later he asks to make a campfire, result: he burns down the tree.
It was great fun.
W E Ray, in your example, even the best druid can sometimes forget to check if he assumes someone else has checked. If the fighter gathers the mushrooms and gives them to the druid to cook, both could have assumed the other one checked. I would be okay with whatever the GM rules.
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I guess it depends on what degree you feel a PC Wizard forgetting he's wearing magical boots is.
I think a PC Wizard forgetting he's wearing boots is on the same level as a carpenter forgetting which side of a hammer is used to hammer the nail (which, sorry, will never happen).
I don't think a Wizard forgetting he's wearing boots is on the same level as a carpenter forgeting to get his hand out of the way because he's in a big hurry and trusts his ability to hit the nail not his hand cuz he's done it successfully a billion times before and becomes complacent. (NOTE: I'm pullin' this carpenter stuff from nowhere: I probably would forget what end of a hammer to use cuz I ain't exactly a carpenter. Nonetheless, I think my example is solid.)
But again, it depends on the degree of which you think a Wizard forgetting he's got magic boots is.
Putting it back in game terms:
It's easy for me to forget my PC has Combat Reflexes; my PC would NEVER forget.
It's easy for me to forget I have a Teleport prepared; my PC would NEVER forget.
That's my argument -- and I think a Wizard would NEVER forget he's wearing those boots even though it's reasonable that the Player would -- through no fault of his own (he has a real life to deal with between gaming sessions.)
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I guess it depends on what degree you feel a PC Wizard forgetting he's wearing magical boots is.
I think a PC Wizard forgetting he's wearing boots is on the same level as a carpenter forgetting which side of a hammer is used to hammer the nail (which, sorry, will never happen).
I don't think a Wizard forgetting he's wearing boots is on the same level as a carpenter forgeting to get his hand out of the way because he's in a big hurry and trusts his ability to hit the nail not his hand cuz he's done it successfully a billion times before and becomes complacent. (NOTE: I'm pullin' this carpenter stuff from nowhere: I probably would forget what end of a hammer to use cuz I ain't exactly a carpenter. Nonetheless, I think my example is solid.)
But again, it depends on the degree of which you think a Wizard forgetting he's got magic boots is.
Putting it back in game terms:
It's easy for me to forget my PC has Combat Reflexes; my PC would NEVER forget.
It's easy for me to forget I have a Teleport prepared; my PC would NEVER forget.
That's my argument -- and I think a Wizard would NEVER forget he's wearing those boots even though it's reasonable that the Player would -- through no fault of his own (he has a real life to deal with between gaming sessions.)
Again: This is a game. The players control these pieces of paper (or pixels on a screen) called characters. The characters do not exist. The characters are only as effective, in the game, as the piece of meat controlling them. It's a game. Player aptitude is part of that. If you can't bother to take ten minutes of your life to go over your character before sessions, take appropriate notes, etc, why are you in this hobby? If you want to enjoy playing a role playing game, cut out one episode of whatever mindless crap you watch on TV, or a half hour out of bar time. Or, gods forbid, some internet time.
Or, I don't know, make a bunch of annotations on your character sheet pointing out different variables that can come into play.
But the onus is on the player to get it right. The character is nothing without the player. All the pencil marks on that piece of paper in the world aren't going to change that.
I've also found that sometimes people carry around too much loot "just in case" and get overwhelmed by the options, or are more prone to forget things... I'm not saying that's the case with you, just it happens.
I've done that, try to be "Mr. Prepared For Everything" and end up failing at most things cause I can't recall all that I have and can do.
eg., my last character's gear: Combat Gear alchemist’s fire (7), divines spell scroll of lesser restoration, wand of cure light wounds (8 charges), wand of lesser restoration (8 charges); Other Gear 10-foot pole, bear traps (2), blade boot, blankets (2), block and tackle (2), caltrops (4), chakram (10), crowbar, flint and steel, gaff (as flail, but piercing), grappling hook, half-plate, hemp rope (100-ft. length), longsword, Lopper’s handaxe (+1 handaxe), mask (worth 10gp), masterwork backpack, masterwork ranseur, net, oil flasks (10), sap, sharpened combat scabbard, shovel, signal horn, spell component pouch, spiked gauntlet, starknives (2), stone of alarm, tender (538gp, 6sp, 5cp), tent, torches (8), tindertwigs (4), trail rations (8), waterskin, whetstone, wooden holy symbol
It added up to well over 250 lb.
I'm fine with a do-over on one of several conditions:
- nothing was rolled
If nothing has been rolled since the action that is looking to be changed, I don't care. This usually means you catch the mistake or oversight very quickly though.
- the player didn't fail an action
This can be due to a player's roll, or an NPC's. For example, if the player uses the last charge from a wand and the NPC makes his save, I consider that a failed action on the player's part. If the NPC failed the save, but the player suddenly remembers something they would rather do, I'm more willing to go back, because in the future the NPC gets a new save. If they're willing to give up a success to try their odds at something else, I usually am willing.
- character death
If a player comes up with something that would have saved their character from death within 1-2 rounds (3-5 minutes in real time), they'll survive. I often make a ruling that they're down for the remainder of combat, no healing brings them back to conscious, but once combat is over they come back with whatever HP they would have had otherwise.
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If something is passive, like an item in a backpack or shoes on your feet I'm less likely to have people remember it.
If its something like the Emperor being in the same room as you, thats a constant visual reminder that the character should have that the player doesn't, so thats definitely an allowed takeback.
Would you let a player go back "just a little" to preserve verisimilitude?
I'm often reminded of the silent benefits of playing a tabletop RPG when I play computer RPGs.
In "Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor" when your player is finished with all the actions that he or she can make on their turn, it automatically ends. If your player has possible actions left but you choose not to use them the only why to end there turn is to press spacebar. Most of the time you press spacebar because your character could often do something(5 foot step). Occasionally one of your characters(often an archer) turn automatically ends, but you hit the spacebar anyway because you usually hit the spacebar to finish your turn this causes you to skip your next player.
Basically one of the silent benefits of playing a tabletop RPG is your ability to not sweat the small stuff.
If your player needs to draw there sword at the end of their previous turn that's fine.
However, in your example it sounded like your player went through a lot of stuff before he remembered that he had those boots. Including making a skill check.
I might still allow it but I would make a deal with that player that this was a one time deal and that in the future he better not hit spacebar.... I mean he better remember to activate his boots.
Would you let a player go back "just a little" to preserve verisimilitude?I'm often reminded of the silent benefits of playing a tabletop RPG when I play computer RPGs.
In "Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor" when your player is finished with all the actions that he or she can make on their turn, it automatically ends. If your player has possible actions left but you choose not to use them the only why to end there turn is to press spacebar. Most of the time you press spacebar because your character could often do something(5 foot step). Occasionally one of your characters(often an archer) turn automatically ends, but you hit the spacebar anyway because you usually hit the spacebar to finish your turn this causes you to skip your next player.
Basically one of the silent benefits of playing a tabletop RPG is your ability to not sweat the small stuff.
If your player needs to draw there sword at the end of their previous turn that's fine.
However, in your example it sounded like your player went through a lot of stuff before he remembered that he had those boots. Including making a skill check.
I might still allow it but I would make a deal with that player that this was a one time deal and that in the future he better not hit spacebar.... I mean he better remember to activate his boots.
How might you rule in some of the other scenarios presented?
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I have had similar thought processes on this subject, I guess it would all depend on your perspective. If you mess up and forget to activate an item/ability or something like that, that's on you a mistake is just that, so if it was a situation where those hypothetical boots of haste would have helped if you activated them but didn't, I would side with your GM.
If it was a situation where you have a +3 Dodge bonus to your AC because of a feat or you just have a +3 because of your DEX and YOU don't apply it when your GM says "does it hit with an AC 16?" (when you should have remembered you're at 19) I still say that's on you, you should know your character better. Story wise that part would be written as (the Orc took a lazy swing at Maethu, and I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw him connect square in the jaw. I have seen Maethu cartwheel over the enemy, leap 30ft from ship to ship in open water, a shot like that should have come no where near him. But it did).
BUT, If it's a passive item, like say if the boots of haste are always activated and just making the check means you're good free and clear, (so long as consequences have not been applied) if your GM doesn't allow it, they're a douche.
Sometimes the player gets unlucky and forgets something the PC should know.
Sometimes the player gets lucky and remembers something the PC shouldn't know.
I figure those two situations tend to balance each other, over the long run. Having said that, I'm a pretty soft-hearted GM. If someone begged pitifully enough, I'll probably let it slide.
Personally, I feel the issue isn't whether a character would have remembered something, the issue is that I hate having combats in my game get bogged down.
You're halfway through describing the spell you're casting or the combat maneuver you're attempting, and-- "Wait!"-- you're interrupted by another player: "I just remembered blah, blah, blah, so we need to redo my entire turn..."
Now the GM and the player have to discuss whether there should be a do-over, miniatures need to be re-set ("Wait, I think you were standing next to the orc." "No, I was on the other side of the... " "Well then you couldn't have moved to there... "), etc., etc.
So in my games, I just don't allow anyone re-dos once they've rolled the dice or another player's turn has started.
You forgot about your DR 20 vs fire when you took damage from a fireball? The damage stays-- your character must have hurt itself trying to evade the blast.
You forgot to use your magic boots? Well, if you don't think your character would have forgotten, then something else kept him from using them. Maybe he mispronounced the activate word, or he did use then, but the sandy ground underfoot made him slip and he didn't cover as much ground as he'd hoped.
How might you rule in some of the other scenarios presented?
I play MTG so I often compare things to the magic tournament rules.
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, you gain 1 life.
According to tournament rules both players would be responsible for the player owning soul warden gaining life. To prevent each player from getting a "warning" form a judge the player always gets life for his soul warden even if both players previously forgot.
I consider the same true for Pathfinder. Both the Players and GM are responsible for things that happen automatically. But in this case the GM is also the judge so he just needs to make a fair ruling based on the assumption that what should have happened did happen.
However:
Whenever another creature enters the battlefield, you may gain 1 life.
In this example the "may" puts the responsibility of gaining the life squarely on the shoulders of the cards controller.
In magic if you forget to gain your life you don't get it.
I feel that in Pathfinder this might be a little too harsh but if a die has been rolled that would have been directly effected by the choice it is best to favor against allowing it.
I might also put restraints on time.
But, for instance, if I was trying to quickly start a game and my players forgot to buy rations I might let them retroactively buy rations as long as they don't encumber themselves(which would most likely effect rolls.)
If however I gave them plenty of time to buy rations:
GM: Okay, your going to be out in the wilderness for a few weeks at least you might want to prepare for such a trip.
If the players end up running out of rations I hope they have survival.
This is also another good reason why players shouldn't keep stuff from there GM's or other players. The players should help each other remember things.
Player B: Remember, dude, your have those groovie boots, dude.
Player A: Oh, ya, your right, man. I use the boots!
GM: Good thing you caught that before you made your check.
Player A: I know right!
Other Gear 10-foot pole, bear traps (2), blade boot, blankets (2), block and tackle (2), caltrops (4), chakram (10), crowbar, flint and steel, gaff (as flail, but piercing), grappling hook, half-plate, hemp rope (100-ft. length), longsword, Lopper’s handaxe (+1 handaxe), mask (worth 10gp), masterwork backpack, masterwork ranseur, net, oil flasks (10), sap, sharpened combat scabbard, shovel, signal horn, spell component pouch, spiked gauntlet, starknives (2), stone of alarm, tender (538gp, 6sp, 5cp), tent, torches (8), tindertwigs (4), trail rations (8), waterskin, whetstone, wooden holy symbol
It added up to well over 250 lb.
My group is not too big on the simulationist style, so instead of sweating about that kind of stuff at character creation we each buy a "happy adventurers kit", don't remember how much we have to pay but it's pretty cheap, and weighs almost nothing. It has any mundane non-masterwork item you need that would make sense for your character to have. You still have to note masterwork items or skill boosting tools and kits but if you need a mirror or some rope, you already have it. It has as much rations and water as the story calls for, i.e. we only worry about that if we spend too long away from civilization.
I consider it one of our best ideas.Also, we allow a do-over if it would save a character from diying or if you haven't rolled the dice yet. Or if you've already passed but the extra bonus would make it more awesome and/or funny.
For the backtracking, I don't allow it, generally. Especially not in a situation as you've described. But I do sometimes allow it if/when I (the GM) have made a major oversight or mistake, or misunderstood the player's intent. Never when the player just didn't think of something.
I agree with cheapy that's a huge double standard.
Immersion is really what determines some actions from happening or not happening. If you were your character in game you wouldn't forget to activate one of your items. Do you know why? Because there's sometimes a good chance that you will die if you don't. When playing a character you will often oversight things just because you're not that person. Besides let's be honest, what type of GM lets a person die just because they remembered they had something but were a little too late using it?
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For the backtracking, I don't allow it, generally. Especially not in a situation as you've described. But I do sometimes allow it if/when I (the GM) have made a major oversight or mistake, or misunderstood the player's intent. Never when the player just didn't think of something.
I agree with cheapy that's a huge double standard.
Immersion is really what determines some actions from happening or not happening. If you were your character in game you wouldn't forget to activate one of your items. Do you know why? Because there's sometimes a good chance that you will die if you don't. When playing a character you will often oversight things just because you're not that person. Besides let's be honest, what type of GM lets a person die just because they remembered they had something but were a little too late using it?
That is a specious line of reasoning. You get to sit around a table in a relaxed atmosphere having fun. You have plenty of time to remember. The enemy has to wait for your turn to finish before he can start killing you. You have tens of minutes between turns to consider your move and a few minutes on your turn.
Your character on the other hand is battling for his life, things are happening quickly and he has little time to make decisions and remember things. He has seconds to make decisions and he has to do it while the cave troll is swinging his axe to split your character in half. Under pressure it is easy to forget.
I have a test for you. Have a friend quiz you on easy math questions while you two sit at a table having a snack. Then do the same thing while your friend tries to smack the crap out of you with a stick. Every time you get one wrong that is a free smack.
I bet you do better the first time.
In most games that I'm running, if you say it, you do it. When I was younger I got tired of the "I tell him to go F*** himself and kick him in the nuts. Naw, just kidding...that's not what I do." well before most of the other people in my group, so I have very close to no tollerance for it now. If I think someone is screwing around, then no, they get no take backs and no sympathy from me. If I think someone made an honest mistake, then maybe. If they're new to the game I'll let more slide, but generally I think people in real life do plenty of bone headed things. If it's the difference between a character dying or not, I'm more lenient. In the first example I would have stood by the ruling.
For the hearing impaired, I sympathise. My hearing isn't great, and a few of the people I've gamed with have bad ears too. What I can't stand is people who spend time screwing around on their phone/laptop/tv/girlfriend and then tell me "well I didn't hear you." Yah, they didn't hear because they weren't paying attention. If you were at my game with the hearing aid and setting close I'd tell anyone who got pissy with you to take a hike.
If people make mechanical mistakes, and correct them quickly, I'll retcon things. Your second example, where the guy has forty foot move and is used to having thirty. As long as he said something about it pretty quick I'd go ahead and rewind. I've had people talk to me about stuff that happened last session, that was a matter of a few hitpoints or a couple gold, and want things straightened out because they didn't know how a spell worked or how a feat worked. That doesn't fly.