Channel energy vs incorporeal creatures.


Advice

Scarab Sages

A quick technical question. The definition of incorporeal says it takes half damage, except against force effects. Does this include channel energy, or does an incorporeal undead creature take full damage from the channel energy?


That's been updated in the errata, incorporeal undead take full damage from channel positive energy.

Scarab Sages

Our gm is still claiming the eratta doesn't say specifically...He's ruling only half damage from channel...

Grand Lodge

If the incorporeal creature is not visible then it takes NO damage by the way...

Something I missed last week and let a cleric channel and affect two undead he could not see. Without the FAQ I would never have even considered that.


Krome wrote:

If the incorporeal creature is not visible then it takes NO damage by the way...

Something I missed last week and let a cleric channel and affect two undead he could not see. Without the FAQ I would never have even considered that.

What makes you think this?

EDIT:

Quote:

Selective Channeling (page 132): Do I have to be able to see a creature in order to exclude them from the effect of my channeled energy?

Just like using a Target: creature spell, you must be able to see or touch a creature to affect it (or, in the case of this feat, select it to be unaffected). Pinpointing the square of an invisible creature isn't sufficient—you must be able to see or touch the creature.

Note that this works differently than an alchemist's precise bombs discovery, which allows the alchemist to exclude *squares* from his bomb's splash area (not targets).

I see what the problem is -- please note that he has to see them to exclude them with selective channel -- not to include them (which is the default) in channel energy.

This is because selective channel targets, while channel energy, like fire ball hits everything in the area.

In order to target you have to have line of sight... but channel energy doesn't target, it's an area of effect.


rtfhawk wrote:
Our gm is still claiming the eratta doesn't say specifically...He's ruling only half damage from channel...

Universal monster rules:

Quote:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water affects incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy). Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.

Don't know how it can be more specific.


Krome wrote:
Without the FAQ I would never have even considered that.

And which FAQ would this be?


Nickademus42 wrote:
Krome wrote:
Without the FAQ I would never have even considered that.
And which FAQ would this be?

See my above edit, I think I've figured it out.

Liberty's Edge

Abraham spalding wrote:
rtfhawk wrote:
Our gm is still claiming the eratta doesn't say specifically...He's ruling only half damage from channel...

Universal monster rules:

Quote:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source. Although it is not a magical attack, holy water affects incorporeal undead. Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy). Force spells and effects, such as from a magic missile, affect an incorporeal creature normally.
Don't know how it can be more specific.

I guess the argument is that it has a 100% chance to affect an incorporeal creature, but it only affects them for half damage. I don't like or agree with that interpretation though.


That is a position that would tempt me to use my 'smite stupid' power. Wife limits me to only one a week though so I would have to think hard before applying it (I'm not fooling anyone, typically it instinctively use it immediately upon need in such situations).

Liberty's Edge

Re-reading it, that's a horribly worded FAQ.

Quote:
Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy).

There's no reason to put "except for channel energy" in there at all, channel energy does damage. (Or did they put it in there to indicate that channel energy can heal incorporeal creatures?)


ShadowcatX wrote:

Re-reading it, that's a horribly worded FAQ.

Quote:
Corporeal spells and effects that do not cause damage only have a 50% chance of affecting an incorporeal creature (except for channel energy).
There's no reason to put "except for channel energy" in there at all, channel energy does damage. (Or did they put it in there to indicate that channel energy can heal incorporeal creatures?)

Yes, it can. Channel Negative Energy can heal all types of undead.

Thus Channel Energy does both damage and heal, and since some balance is needed, Channel Energy does full damage/heal to those in the area. Selective Channeling allows you to target creatures you want to opt out.

You wouldn't want an evil cleric to be able to keep all his incorporeal minions up with 1 channel vs a good cleric who could only do half with 1, kind of silly.


Another possible reason is in preparation for alternative uses of channel energy.

Liberty's Edge

Lathiira wrote:
Another possible reason is in preparation for alternative uses of channel energy.

This, but must say it is still confusing.


Turn Undead, Command Undead, all the domain variant channels have other abilities in addition to damage... There is a bit that it is referring to.


My Bestiary says on page 301:
Incorporeal (Ex)
An incorporeal creature has no physical body.
It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities.
It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms.
Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source.

PathfinderBestiaryErrata1_0.pdf says:

Page 301
In the Incorporeal section, in the first paragraph, add “(except for channel energy)” to the end of the fourth sentence.

Which gives us:
"Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it takes only half damage from a corporeal source (except for channel energy)."

Channel does full damage to incorporeal undead: official.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Channel energy vs incorporeal creatures. All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.