I have 6 PCs, APL 8. This guys a sub-boss, so I'd want him to be CR 10 or 11. That would normally mean the ghost of a 9th or 10 level NPC.
However: some complications. The biggest one is that the ghost is stuck guarding an item. The PCs may want to capture or destroy the item; the ghost cannot allow this.
The backstory is that the ghost was a cleric, of an order of not-very-nice clerics. He lost a political dispute and got killed in the process. The other clerics figured, waste not, want not, and bound his spirit to protect the McGuffin. The ghost isn't happy about this, but he's bound and has no choice. It would take a wish/miracle to bust him loose, and the party doesn't have access to anything like that.
Anyway: the ghost can't move very far from the item -- maybe a 30' radius, tops -- and his first priority must be to protect it. That makes him pretty vulnerable, since the PCs can just stand back and pepper him with magic and missiles. To make matters worse, the PCs may want to destroy the item (long story), in which case the ghost will have to divide his attention towards protecting it. So If I just whip up a 10th level cleric and slap on the ghost template, it's not actually going to be much of a boss; once the PCs figure out what's up, they'll be able to take him down pretty quickly.
I suppose I could just add a couple of levels. But that's kinda clumsy, and it also gets tricky -- if he starts throwing 6th level spells around, the PCs could be in trouble. I'd like to come up with something a little more subtle.
Thoughts?
Doug M.
I would make the room so that the only way to attack the ghost is to enter the room. The item and the ghost don't have to be in the doorway.
I would also give that ghost some help. You can also give the ghost more leeway as to how far he can move from the item.
4 level 8 guys would beat down a CR 10 or 11 combat. With two more PC's that ghost is done. Maybe having an outsider that is CR 7 or 8 bound to the site also will help.
I used an incorporeal npc bbeg in a confined area along with a haunt and it worked out nicely as an interesting combat. The haunt triggered a spell effect (power word: pain) that inhibited the PC's while they fought the incorporeal/shadow cleric.
You could do something similarly with curse or any other negative spell effect and your cleric. Good luck!
A lvl 10 cleric with a ghost template would be VERY powerful for that level, especially for a sub-boss. That's a CR 12 baddie you're throwing at your lvl 8 party. I'd actually consider dropping it down to lvl 8 or 9.
OmegaZ wrote: A lvl 10 cleric with a ghost template would be VERY powerful for that level, especially for a sub-boss. That's a CR 12 baddie you're throwing at your lvl 8 party. I'd actually consider dropping it down to lvl 8 or 9. A level 10 ghost cleric is a CR 11. Having one big boss is a lot easier to beat down than two smaller CR's though.
CR=PC class level-1. You then add +2 for the ghost template unless the ghost is more than a +2 in which case I may stand mistaken.
If your design for the encounter locale is not already set in stone giving him a larger room that he simply can't leave might work. Also, if possible you could give him the undead domain (possibly even go with undead lord) and a living cohort. The domain power from undead domain would make his negative energy heal a cohort. Have him animate the corpses of previous adventurers' who tried to get the item.
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Well, its a ghost, give it telekinesis and have it move the item somewhere else =) Won't those bastages that bound him here be anoyed to find out he left with their McGuffin.
Seriosly though, if you want to make this an interesting challenge, its all about the room the item is in. We'll assume for sake of argument that the guys that killed him looted his body, but burried him with a holy symbol (else he won't be able to cast spells at all). Also, assume he can cast no spell with an expensive material component, as he won't have any of those.
Here's an example of how to make the fight challenging.
Lets go with the top end, CR 11, that'd be a level 10 cleric ghost. We'll give him a base charisma of 14 and a wisdom of 18.
Give said cleric the War Domain and Madness.
Feats. Dodge, Mobility, Eschew Materials (else he will be able to cast almost nothing), +whathaveyou (metamagic good, but really it should be whatever feats were his in life)
He gets 3 special ghost attacks.
Corrupting Touch (cause you have to)
Frightful Moan
Telekineses
He's a cleric, and despite being a ghost, has alot of things he could have done to prepare this room for defense, so do so.
Stone Shape/Wall of Stone (as many as needed) to create a pit/moat reshaping the removed stone into a little stone bunker around the object he is protecting on a little island in the middle (make said bunker look like an alter). If possible, get a dead body (preferably a beautiful young female child), put her body on the alter, keep her fresh via Gentle Repose forever. Dress her in finery, perhaps a tiera, etc... as long as she looks like someone important. (This might help avoid AE spells if the PC's don't want to burn up the poor hapless lass on the alter, but mostly its just a distraction, to keep them guessing and for spooky wtf flavor).
Add in a number of 5x5 stone blocks around the room, coming up from the floor and down from the ceiling, and out from the walls (for the ghost to move into and out of without having to cross lots of open space)
Fill the moat/pit with water... not sure if you can corrupt this water somehow, but since it can't flow anywhere, it'll get foul enough on its own =)
Add any other spooky elements you want, desicated bodies (whole or in part) laying about, et al.
Then wait for unsuspecting PC's...
Some pre-buffing if possible:
Eagle's Splendor, Owl's Wisdom, Shield of Faith
Then when the PC's show up, cast the following spells while out of their sight:
Deeper Darkness (optionaly Heightened to a 4th level spell so it can't be countered by Daylight: requires one metamagic feat on ghost). (assuming there not all dwarves or something where not being able to see well will help)
Mayhap an Unholy Blight, just for fun.
(Basicaly, just a few greeting spells to get them on their guard... because you want them with their weapons out ready to go)
Then you hit them with the Frightful Moan, DC 19 Will. Any who fail, DROP what they are holding (weapons, wands, all that good stuff) and flee.
Cast Obscuring Mist so they can't tell what's happening next (preferably quickened)
As soon as some are out of the room and mist is up, drop a wall of stone in the doorway so they can't get back. Then proceed to telekinesis all the dropped items into the moat (those in the room, won't see most of this, just hear some splashing)
Activate your Madness domain ability (Aura of Madness) assuming theirs a few folks still in the room.
Activate your War domain ability (Weapon Master) and give yourself the Spring Attack feat.
Then go to town on who's left....
partial move, Corrupting Touch, remainder of move back into a wall (or floor!). Repeat add nausium (or at least 10 times, when your domain power runs out and you can't use Spring Attack anymore)
They'll have to ready actions to combat this tactic and the fog will make it hard to tell where the ghost is before its gone again.
And this is without even using the vast majority of the cleric spells you could toss out.
Incorporeal foes suck! =)
A friend and I Co-GMed the Haunting of Harrowstone. The final boss was a ghost and when an item that he desired was dropped by a PC he used his summoned dogs to pick up the item and run off with it.
Though the layout of the room and the size/shape of the item is a factor the cleric should be a summoner/debuffer just so he can be worthy of facing a party as a solo.
Other options do abound. A tenth level NPC can have Wiz 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 4 (7th level spellcasting in 2 classes). This gives him access to Shield and Globe of Lesser Invulnerability, which makes him immune to Magic Missile. It also gives him additional reach with higher damaging spells. I hear Black Tentacles is pretty brutal if at the bottom of a Acid Pit.
Do your players already know that he can't move away from the item? If not, DON'T TELL THEM. They'll solve your problem for you.
Lurk3r wrote: Do your players already know that he can't move away from the item? If not, DON'T TELL THEM. They'll solve your problem for you. Given the situation, they'll probably figure it out quickly enough.
Doug M.
A ghost should be plenty powerful for ur players to deal with, you might want to keep them from exiting the room with summons of some kind or maybe a wall spell.
I would consider to use the alternate turning abilities in UM for some debuffing/buffing effect to make the summons more dangerous, if not an evangelist cleric might be fun. Also might want to look at domain options.
I'd like to give more substantial advice but I would like to know which faith the cleric follows in that case.
EvilMinion wrote: Well, its a ghost, give it telekinesis and have it move the item somewhere else =) Alas! He's not allowed to do that. Otherwise, he'd have grabbed the thing a while ago, and headed off for a world tour.
EvilMinion wrote: We'll assume for sake of argument that the guys that killed him looted his body, but burried him with a holy symbol (else he won't be able to cast spells at all). Also, assume he can cast no spell with an expensive material component, as he won't have any of those. Good points! And Eschew materials too, check.
EvilMinion wrote:
Stone Shape/Wall of Stone (as many as needed) to create a pit/moat reshaping the removed stone into a little stone bunker around the object he is protecting on a little island in the middle (make said bunker look like an alter). Pause here: the living clerics had to access the McGuffin from time to time. So the ghost can't just bury it.
But we can say that, to access the item, you have to (1) wear the trappings and carry the holy symbol of God X; (2) speak a pass phrase, and (3) cast Stone Shape to make a bridge over the moat. That makes impersonation difficult; you'd need to learn the pass phrase /and/ be a 5th level or higher cleric. The PCs will just have to deal with the moat. Since they have an 8th level sorceror who can cast Fly multiple times, this won't be a major problem, but it's there.
Security would reasonably include a magical trap or two, which trigger if you're not wearing the vestments and don't make the Special Sacred Holy Gesture. Someone suggested a Symbol of Pain; definitely worth considering.
EvilMinion wrote:
If possible, get a dead body (preferably a beautiful young female child), put her body on the alter, keep her fresh via Gentle Repose forever. Dress her in finery, perhaps a tiera, etc... as long as she looks like someone important. (This might help avoid AE spells if the PC's don't want to burn up the poor hapless lass on the alter, but mostly its just a distraction, to keep them guessing and for spooky wtf flavor).
I don't think this quite fits with this particular group of clerics. But it's definitely the sort of thing to keep in mind for future encounters!
More in a bit...
Doug M.
Dosgamer wrote: I used an incorporeal npc bbeg in a confined area along with a haunt and it worked out nicely as an interesting combat. The haunt triggered a spell effect (power word: pain) that inhibited the PC's while they fought the incorporeal/shadow cleric.
This would be perfect except that I hit them with PW: Pain just the other day, and I don't want to overuse it.
But the general idea is very sound -- thanks.
Doug M.
wraithstrike wrote:
A level 10 ghost cleric is a CR 11. Having one big boss is a lot easier to beat down than two smaller CR's though.
Also, as noted in the OP, the fact that he's stuck in one place probably strips another CR off him.
Doug M.
-- What this is about: the McGuffin keeps a powerful monster bound in the dungeon. The PCs will be faced with a choice: kill the monster or release it. There are strong arguments on either side, and I truly don't know which way the PCs will jump. They may decide to kill the monster, thus avoiding this encounter altogether. Given the natural bloodlust of PCs (and the fact that the monster is evil, so there's one guaranteed "kill" vote from the paladin) I suspect that this is they way they'll go... but I need to be prepared in case they choose the other path. And if they don't go down there, hey, I can reskin this encounter and play it on them some other time.
EvilMinion wrote: Add in a number of 5x5 stone blocks around the room, coming up from the floor and down from the ceiling, and out from the walls (for the ghost to move into and out of without having to cross lots of open space) Yeah, I like this.
EvilMinion wrote: Fill the moat/pit with water... not sure if you can corrupt this water somehow This is taking place in a cold/arctic environment where the temperature is below freezing, so I can just fill the moat with brine. d6 of cold damage + d6 of acid damage, or like that.
EvilMinion wrote: Add any other spooky elements you want, desicated bodies (whole or in part) laying about, et al. Nah, the ghost is a tidy sort of fellow. Also, there's been occasional traffic in and out as the priests access the McGuffin.
EvilMinion wrote:
Some pre-buffing if possible:
Eagle's Splendor, Owl's Wisdom, Shield of Faith If time allows. "minute per level" buffs better than "round per level", here.
(BTW, does there exist a list of buffs broken down by duration? That would be pretty handy.)
EvilMinion wrote:
Then you hit them with the Frightful Moan, DC 19 Will. Any who fail, DROP what they are holding (weapons, wands, all that good stuff) and flee.
Cast Obscuring Mist so they can't tell what's happening next (preferably quickened)
As soon as some are out of the room and mist is up, drop a wall of stone in the doorway so they can't get back. Then proceed to telekinesis all the dropped items into the moat (those in the room, won't see most of this, just hear some splashing)
Activate your Madness domain ability (Aura of Madness) assuming theirs a few folks still in the room. Holy crap, that last one is ugly. Burst Confusion in a 30' radius? I love it!
-- Unfortunately, I don't see this guy having the Madness domain. (Though I'm totally saving that tactic for later.) I haven't worked out the details of his religion yet, but plausible domains would be Water, Knowledge, Travel, and Law. None of these are particularly useful here, with the limited exception of the Thought subdomain's Read Thoughts ability.
That said, your idea of a 5th level spell combined with Quickened Obscuring Mist, followed by Frightful Moan and a party-splitting ice wall, is pretty sweet. It works even better if there's a magical debuffing trap at the entrance to the room.
-- No, but wait: I see a problem here. They have an 8th level paladin in the party. So, Aura of Courage -> +4 to their saves against the Frightful Moan. Hmm.
EvilMinion wrote: Activate your War domain ability (Weapon Master) and give yourself the Spring Attack feat...
partial move, Corrupting Touch, remainder of move back into a wall (or floor!). Repeat add nausium
Well, he can't really have the War Domain. Other hand, an 11th level human has 7 feats. Eschew Materials, Quicken Spell, Dodge, Mobility, and he still has three left. Just need to make sure he has a 13 Dex when I stat him out...
Doug M.
Douglas Muir 406 wrote: The ghost isn't happy about this, but he's bound and has no choice. So how did they bind him to the task/room? By Quest spell? How did they bind him to the room specifically? Maybe he seeks a way out of this?
What other spells might the other priests have cast to secure the item and bind/trap the ghost? Symbol of Fear, Persuasion, Sealing and Greater Glyph of Warding and Forbiddance are 6th level spells like Quest. Greater Glyph can store a spell of 6th level or lower. Other permanent spells: Hallow/Unhallow (read up on their details!)
So you can get quite creative...
A Harm glyph would be devastating if it includes both him and the PCs.
Also read up on the rejuvenation ability. If defeated will he be allowed to follow the NPCs who took the Mc Guffin after he reforms? Where are his corporeal remains? What would be needed to truly lay him to rest?
Don't forget to include a few incorporeal “copies” of any items that it particularly valued in life. Quote: The equipment works normally for the ghost but passes harmlessly through material objects or creatures. A weapon of +1 or better magical enhancement, however, can harm material creatures, but any such attack deals only half as much damage (50%) unless it is a ghost touch weapon. A ghost can use shields or armor only if they have the ghost touch quality.The original items remain behind, just as the ghost's physical remains do. If another creature seizes the original, the incorporeal copy fades away. This loss invariably angers the ghost, who stops at nothing to return the item to its original resting place (and thus regain the item's use). (see the ghost template)
Or you could make him a Dread Ghost (CR +3) and pick a few of it's more powerful SLAs. (Chilling Aura? Spell Resistance?)
Quote: So If I just whip up a 10th level cleric and slap on the ghost template, it's not actually going to be much of a boss; once the PCs figure out what's up, they'll be able to take him down pretty quickly. Will they really figure it out so easily? How? Couldn't you rig the encounter so that it is not that readily apparent that there is a ghost/npc or what exactly he is? I feel an ghost being incorporeal and with that many other abilities could be quite sneaky that way...
Quote: plausible domains would be Water, Knowledge, Travel, and Law Have you checked out the subdomains? Water(Ice): Icicle, Body of Ice
Can you share a few more details of the deity and the other priests?
Thanael wrote:
So how did they bind him to the task/room? By Quest spell?
I'm kinda handwaving that one. Geas-quest would certainly make sense. (Could you even cast it on a ghost, though?)
Thanael wrote: What other spells might the other priests have cast to secure the item and bind/trap the ghost? Symbol of Fear, Persuasion, Sealing and Greater Glyph of Warding and Forbiddance are 6th level spells like Quest. Greater Glyph can store a spell of 6th level or lower. Yeah, I was looking at Greater Glyph. Here's the thing, though -- the PCs are APL 8, and this isn't supposed to be a killer encounter. Tough and challenging, but not killer.
Also, in-game, it's canon that the priests have become kinda smug and cocky. So security on this thing might not be all it should be. They weren't really thinking in terms of a CR 12 party (6x 8th level adventurers) busting in when all the priests were absent. (Or, in this particular case, dead.)
Thanael wrote: Also read up on the rejuvenation ability. If defeated will he be allowed to follow the NPCs who took the Mc Guffin after he reforms? Where are his corporeal remains? What would be needed to truly lay him to rest? Destroying the McGuffin (which is a likely outcome) will render the binding void and release him. He won't rejuvenate and follow the PCs unless they try to hang on to it -- which is unlikely, though not impossible.
Thanael wrote: Couldn't you rig the encounter so that it is not that readily apparent that there is a ghost/npc or what exactly he is? The ghost is going to show himself early on, because he has no idea the PCs are a threat. They will arrive at the temple just after another evil force has massacred all the priests. The ghost will materialize and deliver some biting commentary on the incompetent priests; he TOLD them, but nobody LISTENED to him -- it serves them right! I haven't decided whether he's evil (he could be LN or LE), but either way he has no love for the late priests, who are the descendants of the guys who murdered him and bound his spirit. So at first he's just going to be standing around snarking on them, and his initial attitude towards the PCs will be neutral. That will change fast once he realizes what they're after... but until then, he's actually a useful source of information.
Once the penny drops, he'll disappear through that door over there -- which is locked (DC 32 Disable, or one of the keys on the head priest's key ring), trapped, and leads to some stairs that go down to his lair.
Can you share a few more details of the deity and the other priests? At the moment I'm thinking a non-canon deity who may be unique to this city, which is a port in a cold/arctic region. The priests are nongood and nonchaotic -- typically N, LN, or LE -- and control a monster with oracular powers. Hence the likely domains (water, knowledge, travel, law). If anyone knows a canon deity that fits, great -- otherwise I'm handwaving it.
cheers,
Doug M.
Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Just a couple of thoughts after reading through the thread....
Could the room the ghost is in have some kind of haunt effect under the ghosts control? Say something that makes the room (at least appear) larger to give the ghost more room to move?
You could give him the Birthmark trait, that would take away the need for him to have been buried with his holy symbol. Alternately, his holy symbol could be next, or affixed to, the macguffin he's guarding. That way you could give him greater freedom of movement while still ensuring he's only a major threat next to the macguffin.
Of course, if he's haunting a church to his own god I'm not sure he needed to be buried with his holy symbol, there should be plenty laying around, engraved in the walls, etc....
I can't help you with a canon god, that combination of domains and alignment is tough. An odd cult of Pharasma might fit, but the only really good match seems to be the infernal duke Crocell
Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
EvilMinion wrote: Fill the moat/pit with water... not sure if you can corrupt this water somehow This is taking place in a cold/arctic environment where the temperature is below freezing, so I can just fill the moat with brine. d6 of cold damage + d6 of acid damage, or like that.
Then Have one of his domains be water.
Pcs come in...
Block the door (wall of stone)...
Cast control water (domain spell) and raise the water level to 11!
As long as the room is no more then 20' high x 100' long x 100' wide, it will now be completely filled with freezing water, floor to ceiling.
Read up on your swimming (with armor check penalties) and drowning rules.
Douglas Muir 406 wrote: Thanael wrote:
The ghost is going to show himself early on, because he has no idea the PCs are a threat. They will arrive at the temple just after another evil force has massacred all the priests. The ghost will materialize and deliver some biting commentary on the incompetent priests; he TOLD them, but nobody LISTENED to him -- it serves them right!
Any chance all those dead priests are laying around for him to 'repurpose'?
Make his 2nd domain Travel and then have him teleport/dimension door in his new undead minions (after he fills the room with water of course)
Perhaps desecrate Or unhallow in the area might help (keeping in mind that the ghost cannot cast either himself due to expensive material components)
I had a BBEG that was a ghost paladin with a keen flame bursting rapier that he gave ghost touch through his level 5 class feature. The ghost templates extra cha was very welcome. So was the eagles splinder spell and the Headband of Alluring Charisma +4. He didnt do amazing damage. Some thing like 2d6+2d10+12 on a crit. He crit on a 15-20 but he had really good saves , HP ( undead base it off cha ) and AC. Super AC vs smite target becuase of the double dip with smite and the deflection bonus from ghost.
Edit - he was also able to heal himself as a swift action via LoH. kept him up really well.
The upshot was, the PCs managed to avoid this encounter entirely! They met the ghost, but parleyed with him and reached an agreement, and then went off to fight the dragon.
Slightly disappointing after all the effort, but I'll just keep him around -- you never know when you might need a ghost.
Thanks to everyone for all your help!
Doug M.
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