I'm entering a weird psionics heavy campaign, with a large focus on the underdark and a sort of fey wild above ground, and since the party is lacking someone with a charisma greater than a shrew I figured I'd step in and fill the role. My question is what in pathfinder would let me utilize a high charisma to it's fullest? My GM -might- let me use 3.5 stuff, if it's not too over powered.
I'm already planning to play a Fey Blooded Sorcerer (20 cha to start), which nets me a nice +13 to max rank social skills (characters begin at 5th level), but besides feinting in combat, which I have no intention of using, I don't know what good they'd be outside of the occasional barter or interrogation. Charm spells aside of course.
I've considered taking the Antagonize feat, but besides that I can't think of anything that would be incredibly useful. Any thoughts?
EDIT: I'm also leaning toward a kind of nature focus (what with the huge forest above ground and all), possibly taking some of the verdant bloodline powers later on, if that has any baring on options.
I was more looking for outlets with which I could use Cha/Bluff/Diplo/Intimidate mechanically than just ramping my diplomacy to record heights. I know how my DM works for the most part, and I know that having a 30 in any of those won't do much in terms of overall game play, but I also know that having a high charisma could be useful in more than just a few skill rolls.
The rest of the party consists of a gish archer/psion, a telepathic psion, a psionic warrior, a fighter, and a animalistic druid.
I haven't considered Oracle before, but I remember it being fairly weak last time I glanced at it. I guess I could take another look.
Rawr gnome:
Rogue thug 1 - cause frightened instead of shaken with a good enough check
feats:
taunt: bluff for intimidate checks, no size penalty
dazzling display: intimidate everyone around you
enforcer: intimidate for rounds = damage dealt (for enemies where your normal bluff isnt high enough to cause frightened)
Just keeping a high bluff means you can spook anything not immune to fear into dropping their weapons and running.
I'm a barbarian! Rawr!
Rogue thug 1 - cause frightened instead of shaken with a good enough check
I like your idea. It doesn't sound like the kind of character the OP is interested in, but it does sound fun.
I prefer Cornugon Smash to Enforcer.
A battle or metal Oracle focused on Melee abilities could make good use of Power Attack & Cornugon Smash too, but I don't know of a way for them to turn Shaken into something useful like Frightened.
Rogue thug 1 - cause frightened instead of shaken with a good enough checkI like your idea. It doesn't sound like the kind of character the OP is interested in, but it does sound fun.
I prefer Cornugon Smash to Enforcer.
A battle or metal Oracle focused on Melee abilities could make good use of Power Attack & Cornugon Smash too, but I don't know of a way for them to turn Shaken into something useful like Frightened.
While this sounds like a fantastic idea, we're limited to a 20 point point-buy, so I figured a big dump into cha and balanced survival stats seemed best. Given that we don't have a rogue in the party, a curmudgeon could sound fun, but since the point-buy is so low I figured i'd stick with ranged spellcasting for now.
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Something that I've been toying with is an Inquisitor with both the Infiltrator archetype and the Conversion Inquisition. With this combination you can add your Wisdom Modifier to your Bluff and Diplomacy skills (Infiltrator) and you get to replace your Charisma Modifier in the Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate skills with your Wisdom Modifier (Conversion).
Your 20-point buy would allow you to add three or four points to these skills, twice over. Considering that they are all class skills and the 6+Int skill ranks granted an Inquisitor you would be an excellent face for the party.
Additionally the ability to fake your alignment pairs nicely with your ability to talk your way out of situations. Add in the Bluff bonuses and the fact that Disguise is a class skill and you're an instant spy/diplomat/negotiator.
Be a human and take an extra feat for your face skills, or be an Orc and intimidate the crap out of everyone.
Other things that make the Inquisitor a great choice for your group:
1) Healing: It never hurts to have a party face who can help the heavy hitters out.
2) Buffs: Guidance, Bless, Knowledge skills, and Lend Judgement all help the party in and out of combat -- and that's just at first level.
3) BAB 3/4, deity weapon proficiency, armor proficiency, and Teamwork Feats allow you to be a decent combatant, even after focusing on out-of-combat skills and abilities.
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Well, for straight face the bard is difficult to beat. They can bring Sense Motive in as a charisma skill (perform oratory), and get a considerable number of skill points. They are also able to influence a group using an ability (fascinate) that has far less loose / interpreted mechanics than Diplomacy.
For a nature focus I also recommend the nature oracle. They get an animal companion, charisma to AC, radiates a save bonus to friendly animals, and make great support-summoners. I wouldn't look back.
If you are set / locked into the sorcerer, I mean just keep ranks in Diplomacy if the GM makes it meaningful; no need to overthink things and dedicate skills to such.
Check out the Oracle Sidestep Secret revelation from the Lore mystery. Available to anyone dipping 1 level of oracle.
Also there's a feat that give CHA to init.
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Bard, bard, bard.
With a side of deep-fried rogue rings.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that you should be a bard.
Look at the Archaeologist, to get some rogue talents as well as your awesome spell list. And they can disable traps better than a rogue.
Still going for the nature theme? Be an Animal Speaker! This one stacks with Savage Skald too, if you're going for a barbarian type. And their ability to incite Rage into enemies is amazing. This destroys spellcasters, since they can't cast.
Want to mix swords with the best of them? Arcane Duelist!
How about a know-it-all who can disable magical traps? Archivist!
Perhaps you want to be a sneak, and navigate the treacherous underdark under a cloak of...more dark...Well then! Be a Sandman! They can disable traps, put enemies to sleep, etc. They are basically the Beguiler from 3.5 :)
Do you have a lot of casters in your party? Then be a magician! and explore the mysteries of the magical world. These guys are phenomenal support for casters, and with the spell Arcane Concordance, they're so much better!
Seriously, go bard :) You don't need a lot of Charisma if you have Versatile Performance. Just pump up the Perform skills that give what you want (Oratory and Comedy, by the way). There is a HUGE difference between 3.5 bards and PF bards, so drop all that vestigal luggage you have.
PF bardic performance does not usually require an instrument or singing or dancing or any other stupid thing like that. You just turn it on. Perhaps the initial activation can be instrument / dancing / singing based, but the magic of the ability does the rest. It's a magical effect, after all!
If you do go bard, keep Cha around 16, and give some other stats some love. They aren't casters, they are martial types. They fight with weapons, although the Magician is as close as you can get to a Caster Bard. If you do go for a Caster Bard, check out the feat Unsettling Enchantment from...Complete Mage? Complete Arcane? It gives a -2 to AC and to-hit when an enemy is the target of your enchantment spells.
Doesn't matter if they saved or not. Use that with Unwitting Ally to give debuffs to your enemies when you don't have anything else to do.
Did I mention you should do bard?
yeah man, bard... personally I'd go sandman. And just between you and me... magical lineage(lullaby) + meta-magic feat Disruptive spell. If your DM allows disruptive to disrupt psionics... you didn't hear it from me...
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Try becoming the Lore keeper of the order of the White Shinobi.
Assumes a 18 - 20 charisma
1 lvl Oracle of Lore (you can sub Nature) - Side Step Secret revelation - Add your charisma to reflex saves & Ac in place of dex
Feat - Extra Revelation - Focus Mind - +20 to intelligence based checks.
Trait - Dangerously curios - UMD becomes a classs skill +1
2 lvls Ninja - pick up Forgotten Jutsu, 1d6 sneak attack, skills, 5 Ki points. Other KI abilities include: +20 movement, +1 attack at full attack bonus
Feat - Extra Ninja trick - Vanishing Trick
2 lvls Paladin - Add your charisma to saves, lay on hands 5 per day, eligble for curewands, smite evil, detect evil
After this, its your choice, but you've got a reliable character who can roleplay - diplomacy as class skill, make just about any knowledge check - Focus Mind, able to stealth - vanish trick - wear heavy armor and have great defenses - +4 Cha to AC, +4 Fort, +8 Reflex, +4 Will, is still a equivalent to a 3/4 BAB @ level 5 and able to have multiple attacks per round, able to run if need to - +20 movement for ki point.
You'll fall behind a little compared to any other straight up class, but choose to either follow the path of the Paladin or the Ninja from here and you will still have a respectible career.
Or do what Cheapy said. That would work too.
Well, so much for that idea. My Gm's weird world has no divine alterations, so deity driven classes are out the window. Understandable given the introduction of psionics to the campaign, but limits a lot of the suggestions; though I DO LOVE the paladin ninja build, it looks hilarious and fun. And those saves are nutz at lower levels.
I guess I'll stick with bard and sorcerer for now, try and weigh my options and see what turns out the best.
The only hesitance toward bard is that we've got a few power gamers in the group, and they're filling most of the possible positions a bard would fill, Archer-gish, front line fighter/skirmisher, controller (telepath specifically).
Still it gives me pause to consider the diplomancer abilities of the bard, even at high levels, could be fun. Hard to say.
The only hesitance toward bard is that we've got a few power gamers in the group, and they're filling most of the possible positions a bard would fill, Archer-gish, front line fighter/skirmisher, controller (telepath specifically).
Bard has crazy options, both from the core class and archetypes. An easy one to overlook is sea singer's 1/2 level to linguistics, letting you forge just about anything. And who grabs linguistics to counter check you?
King's edict declares you a buttface, etc.
Delivered by your "royal" parrot / monkey.
Should be noted that the core bards Suggestion is almost always treated as the highest level spell that a wizard can cast. Meaning, the dc raises every two levels.
With 3 martial types, inspire courage / haste / good hope is an amazing force multiplier. At level 7,just casting inspire courage and good hope will give plus 4 to hit and damage, and + 2 to saves. Suddenly, you are on par with a full BAB class :-)
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Oracle of nature is a stronger support class; and not divinely driven (at least, requires no diety). It's probably your strongest.
Don't underestimate the bard; really I think sinking all your feats into archery is largely a waste, it seems OK through about 5th level, then you realize you aren't ever doing enough to justify using your action that way. Keep a whip in-hand for "off" rounds (or be a half elf with exotic weapon: net if you don't mind losing the feat), but don't invest much there. Pick up lingering song (to make your bard-song rounds last longer) and skill focus perform: oratory (which by level 2 will extend to sense motive and diplomacy for more goodness). Have a high Cha >> Con > Dex > Int > Wis > Str style build, be useful in combat and insanely good out. Don't try to Gish.