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So, I've seen it mentioned by Paizo that at least one particular concern about reskinning is whether people might abuse it to bring in themes that are inappropriate for golarion/pathfinder/D&D/fantasy. One specific fear that was used as an example was making a sword look like a lightsaber.
That fear of 'star wars in golarion' is what this thread is about. And any other inappropriate themes for the setting. So, since we're going to some lengths to protect the integrity of the flavor of our PFS OP scenarios (both for participants' immersion in the setting, and also out of consideration for Paizo's legal implications).. does this also extend to what a player may name his character?
A player cannot have a fighter with a lightsaber, but can he name his character "Luke Skywalker"? if not, how is this enforced? Does the character database make him pick another name? Is the GM at a table expected or empowered to make him pick a new one?
What about a name that is not involving intellectual property, but is still unquestionably inappropriate for the setting? Can that fighter be named "Diesel"? May a mount be named "Turbo"?
My third example isn't hypothetical.. it's something someone in my own circle is doing ;D If you play a pregen, can you just keep the name of that iconic for your character after you register your PC? For example, can there be an infinite number of Merisiels running around out there in PFS OP? Personally, I always thought that having a pregen at the table was indeed playing with THE iconic, but I know it doesn't say that anywhere so I can certainly grant that I could be reading too much into that one.
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Giving you character an iconic/funny/weird name is legal. You're not re-skinning unless you actually claim to be the person the name is derived from. So can you be called Luke Skywalker? I don't see why not. It's no different than having a dog and naming it "Wolfie" or "Piglet". Doesn't change that it is still a dog by mechanics and visually.
However, can you actually be Luke Skywalker? Not if you mean being an alien from another planet, driving a hover-like "car", or having a Sith lord for a dad.
Just keep in mind that when you choose something iconic/cutesy/weird, expect a lot of players to disregard your character as ridiculous. It may not be appropriate for a serious game. Having a barbarian and naming it "Conan" is not likely to get you taken anymore seriously that naming him "Pinky."
Oh, and please avoid anything that would be inappropriate for younger viewers. Some parents might object to a character named "MILF" or "Sex Kitten". YMMV.
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The guide is pretty clear that GM's can not allow players to play at their tables for any reason they deem appropriate. I would think that naming a character Darth Vader is just ridiculous and would affect the other players that are taking the theme and their characters more seriously. If the other players thought it was cute, or funny, I probably wouldn't care either, but I might not allow that character at my table if other players didn't like it.
I don't see why it would matter at all if you kept the name/image from the pregen. As far as I know that's perfectly legal.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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As the creator of a "Captain Andoran" character, I don't see the problem with names for fun. My character, with Throw Anything, Exotic weapon Proficiency: Throwing Shield, Equipment Trick: Shield and a +1 Returning Mithril Throwing Shield has been loads of fun for me and other players at the tables I have played him. Locally, we have a whole group of "PFS Avengers", most of them character concepts built just for fun. And isn't that what the game is all about?
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I am pretty sure that if I actually showed up with a character named DR. BARBARIAN AM BARBARIAN, PhD. to a table, I would be laughed out of the game. Or else the guys there would believe I was just a ripoff.
I am wondering about what would happen if I showed up with a Bard Archaeologist called Indiana Jones, though.
Probably the same thing.
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The guide is pretty clear that GM's can not allow players to play at their tables for any reason they deem appropriate. I would think that naming a character Darth Vader is just ridiculous and would affect the other players that are taking the theme and their characters more seriously. If the other players thought it was cute, or funny, I probably wouldn't care either, but I might not allow that character at my table if other players didn't like it.
I don't see why it would matter at all if you kept the name/image from the pregen. As far as I know that's perfectly legal.
I really hope that there aren't GMs out there looking for reasons to keep people from playing. Don't get me wrong, there can be just cause (I met a player with whom I will never again sit at a table as a player or GM), but it shouldn't be over the character's name.
There exists a cabal of characters locally who are the "Shiny" family (Shiny Jim, Shiny Tim, etc.), and this is fun for the players. Likewise, most of the halflings and gnomes I've seen have purposely humorous (for the players) names.
If someone want to name their Bladebound Magus "Elric", I say let them. Same for naming their silent elfin archer "Strongbow" or their noble human warrior "Erik Greystone" (you may need to Google that one). Ultimately, it would seem that each player has a responsibility to allow everyone else to have the same fun they are expecting to have. I don't object to a player whose stable of PCs includes "Bardie" (a bard) and Sorcie (a sorcerer), and none of the other players have, either.
Now, as for the images of the pregens...most of those are great. If it fits how someone envisions their character, I say more power to them.
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Of course you can name your character whatever you want. It is, however, one of the reasons I've virtually stopped playing PFS. I'm interested in immersion, vividly imagining the actions and interactions of the characters. It's become too difficult with the number of downright goofy names I've come across. It's another example of the strength of the system--many styles of play are accommodated--sometimes being a drawback. I'm not interested in a tongue-and-cheek series of tactical exercises. Other people apparently greatly enjoy that. In fact, a lot of people apparently prefer it. So, I play occasionally with my friends who are looking for the same experience. Sometimes I'm jealous that Tweedle-Dum, Moammar Qaddafi, and Fire & Ice are off adventuring (real names of PCs I've played with), but then I get over it.
I have to admit some interest in the PFS Avengers though...
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One of my players named his character "Ugglestonian Anvilsmasher" or Ugg Smash for short. Some people took him for a joke character till he started drowning a bandit halfling in a barrel of collective chamber pot leavings. They stopped laughing at the crazy dwarf, and started laughing at the poor halflings unfortunate end.
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There are always a few goobers in every family. I have seen a few odd character names, but it doesn't really bother me. Not everyone is going to have the same goals of what they want out of the game. Keep in mind it is just a game, so if somebody shows up with a Darth Vader, you just have to grin and bear it. You can still flip him a little crap for it, but ultimately it is their choice.
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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In our home pfs game, one of our players has an inquisitor they modeled after a famous show on a while back. Her name, Buffy the Undead Seeker... ;) Complete with wooden stake and favored judgement: undead.
I myself have a Fire Elementalist named Flickembicus. The goal of RPGs is to have fun, right? I'd leave immersion playing out of organized play, since there's almost always going to be one in every group that will pop your bubble.
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I will not place a restriction on what a player names his character. However, my wish is that people would flavor it to fit Golarion. However, I know everyone doesnt agree. Unfortunately, due to no restrictions on naming, I had to take an item off my top 40 list of things I wanted to do.
I was looking at rewarding 12th level retired characters and/or GMs a reward to name a street, park, monument, etc. after their own characters. Unfortunately, since these would become canon, this goal will never be reached because of IP problems, as well as the fact we don't want silly names in prints products. So, enjoy naming your characters whatever you wish but know that it did come at a price.
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I was looking at rewarding 12th level retired characters and/or GMs a reward to name a street, park, monument, etc. after their own characters. Unfortunately, since these would become canon, this goal will never be reached because of IP problems, as well as the fact we don't want silly names in prints products. So, enjoy naming your characters whatever you wish but know that it did come at a price.
Why couldn't you do something like this, with the caveat that any name submitted for canonization is subject to being 'golarianized' by paizo in order to protect against IP/silliness?
Anyway, thanks for trying to come up with something cool for us. I've another reason now to look down my nose at 'those sorts' of gamers ;D
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I really hope that there aren't GMs out there looking for reasons to keep people from playing. Don't get me wrong, there can be just cause (I met a player with whom I will never again sit at a table as a player or GM), but it shouldn't be over the character's name.
There exists a cabal of characters locally who are the "Shiny" family (Shiny Jim, Shiny Tim, etc.), and this is fun for the players. Likewise, most of the halflings and gnomes I've seen have purposely humorous (for the players) names.
If someone want to name their Bladebound Magus "Elric", I say let them. Same for naming their silent elfin archer "Strongbow" or their noble human warrior "Erik Greystone" (you may need to Google that one). Ultimately, it would seem that each player has a responsibility to allow everyone else to have the same fun they are expecting to have. I don't object to a player whose stable of PCs includes "Bardie" (a bard) and Sorcie (a sorcerer), and none of the other players have, either.
Now, as for the images of the pregens...most of those are great. If it fits how someone envisions their character, I say more power to them.
I pretty much agree with everything here. (Well, except your synthesist, Tim -- I hate that. :-P)
If we're talking about a home campaign, I pay a whole lot of attention to naming conventions. I do that for most of my PFS characters usually, too. But in PFS, I don't care much if anyone else's name is tongue-in-cheek or if they've agonized over it as much as, well, I do -- if they're having fun at the table, that's what matters.
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I was looking at rewarding 12th level retired characters and/or GMs a reward to name a street, park, monument, etc. after their own characters. Unfortunately, since these would become canon, this goal will never be reached because of IP problems, as well as the fact we don't want silly names in prints products. So, enjoy naming your characters whatever you wish but know that it did come at a price.
Why couldn't you do something like this, with the caveat that any name submitted for canonization is subject to being 'golarianized' by paizo in order to protect against IP/silliness?
The staff won't always know if a name is a violation of someone else's IP.
Sure, for 'Luke Skywalker' or 'Drizz't', they can be weeded out, but you're asking them to gain an in-depth knowledge of all the works out there, in several media, just for the sake of policing this.|
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I pretty much agree with everything here. (Well, except your synthesist, Tim -- I hate that. :-P)
Really? She's my third favorite character (behind the underpowered Ranger/Rogue/Horizon Walker and the Arcane Monk) to play. You really have to look at her as half bad-druid, half bad-monk. Except that she's never had cause to summon anything.
I for one, am glad there aren't any "name police" in PFS.
Now that you've said it, every PFS store will have a wiseguy who names an Inquisitor 'Name Police.'
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The staff won't always know if a name is a violation of someone else's IP.
Sure, for 'Luke Skywalker' or 'Drizz't', they can be weeded out, but you're asking them to gain an in-depth knowledge of all the works out there, in several media, just for the sake of policing this.
Actually, one of the things the developers regularly do is try to ensure that names are not going to be problematic.
They may miss some, but they catch a lot of them.It's listed as criteria for auto-reject for scenario submission in the Open Call guidelines, I believe.
[...]
Great, I hope they don't mind my latest character then, "Balbo Baggins". You'll never guess where I got the name from...
Well, if he was a were-husky you could name him "Balto Baggins"...
Now that you've said it, every PFS store will have a wiseguy who names an Inquisitor 'Name Police.'Great, I hope they don't mind my latest character then, "Balbo Baggins". You'll never guess where I got the name from...
There's this thread I need you to take a look at...
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As the creator of a "Captain Andoran" character, I don't see the problem with names for fun. My character, with Throw Anything, Exotic weapon Proficiency: Throwing Shield, Equipment Trick: Shield and a +1 Returning Mithril Throwing Shield has been loads of fun for me and other players at the tables I have played him. Locally, we have a whole group of "PFS Avengers", most of them character concepts built just for fun. And isn't that what the game is all about?
OK, I *love* this idea. Any chance you'd be willing to share your build progression?
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I will not place a restriction on what a player names his character. However, my wish is that people would flavor it to fit Golarion. However, I know everyone doesnt agree. Unfortunately, due to no restrictions on naming, I had to take an item off my top 40 list of things I wanted to do.
I was looking at rewarding 12th level retired characters and/or GMs a reward to name a street, park, monument, etc. after their own characters. Unfortunately, since these would become canon, this goal will never be reached because of IP problems, as well as the fact we don't want silly names in prints products. So, enjoy naming your characters whatever you wish but know that it did come at a price.
So much for Kneecap plaza.
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Keep in mind that kids - Ages 10 to 14 - tend to pull names from the movies and their favorite characters. I have run a handful of games for about a dozen kids within this age group and they all picked favorite names. We had most of the Lord of the Rings covered along with a few names from Avatar, the Last Airbender, and a few from Video games. My own daughter's picked Zelda and Azula. I could care less as long as they learn the game and have fun. As they get older, they will get more creative.
No name police. I do like the idea of Kneecap Plaza.
Keep in mind that kids - Ages 10 to 14 - tend to pull names from the movies and their favorite characters. I have run a handful of games for about a dozen kids within this age group and they all picked favorite names. We had most of the Lord of the Rings covered along with a few names from Avatar, the Last Airbender, and a few from Video games. My own daughter's picked Zelda and Azula. I could care less as long as they learn the game and have fun. As they get older, they will get more creative.
No name police. I do like the idea of Kneecap Plaza.
We have a young player around here who specifically built his character to be Link. He even named him Link. And while that does sort of pull me out of the immersion experience at times, I realize that I would rather have 5 people at the table with non-setting names, than only one person with a really serious name. A two-person dungeon crawl would be a lot worse to me than playing with Link. New RPers tend to pick unorthodox names as it is (not that seasoned players don't take some time once in a while for a bit of the same fun). Given some time, the person playing Link went on and made a new character, more appropriate to the setting. And you know what? He plays his characters well. I would rather have someone with a goofy name who plays well, than someone serious who is horrible to game with. Lastly, I know plenty of people IRL with horrible names that are hard to take seriously, but we get along just fine.
We are not simply "having fun," we are playing DnD, which is fun. More than that, we are playing DnD in the world of Golarion.
This "have fun" excuse is way overused, and abused. I think it is complete weak-sauce to not, at least expect someone to create a character in Golarion, the setting from which PFS takes place. I do not think it is too much to ask, for someone to create a character with an appropriate name. There are a tons of name examples all over the setting.
People completely new to the game are a different story. But just as we advise them on how to roll up a character, we should advise on how they take those numbers and integrate them into the setting.
If you don't care about the setting, then do not play in the setting. If you do not care about the fact that it is a roleplaying game, then do whatever you want in your home game.
It is these type of sentiments in this thread that completely water down the whole experience of an RPG. Sure, you can still play, but why play an RPG, if you are not interested in roleplaying?
As the creator of a "Captain Andoran" character, I don't see the problem with names for fun. My character, with Throw Anything, Exotic weapon Proficiency: Throwing Shield, Equipment Trick: Shield and a +1 Returning Mithril Throwing Shield has been loads of fun for me and other players at the tables I have played him. Locally, we have a whole group of "PFS Avengers", most of them character concepts built just for fun. And isn't that what the game is all about?
I read this post, then I had to post this thread. It sounds like so much fun. I like serious roleplaying, but I have no problem with this kind of thing if it's said up front that it is not a serious campaign. I think it'll be great.
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I knew a player who turned up one day, with an elf, called Elric.
He got a load of grief off the other players, but swore blind he'd never heard of the original character. I'm inclined to believe him, since he wasn't someone who read a lot of fantasy fiction. He'd probably heard the name used by someone else (someone who did have no qualms about ripping off a famous IP), and thought it sounded 'elvish'.
Should we realy be punishing these players, for an offence they don't even know they've committed?
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We are not simply "having fun," we are playing DnD, which is fun. More than that, we are playing DnD in the world of Golarion.
This "have fun" excuse is way overused, and abused. I think it is complete weak-sauce to not, at least expect someone to create a character in Golarion, the setting from which PFS takes place. I do not think it is too much to ask, for someone to create a character with an appropriate name. There are a tons of name examples all over the setting.
People completely new to the game are a different story. But just as we advise them on how to roll up a character, we should advise on how they take those numbers and integrate them into the setting.
If you don't care about the setting, then do not play in the setting. If you do not care about the fact that it is a roleplaying game, then do whatever you want in your home game.
It is these type of sentiments in this thread that completely water down the whole experience of an RPG. Sure, you can still play, but why play an RPG, if you are not interested in roleplaying?
To many people, playing some iteration of a favorite fantasy character is fun. And they can choose to name it whatever they want -- it's their character.
In a home campaign, I can see being much more stringent on this, but not in PFS.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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OK, I *love* this idea. Any chance you'd be willing to share your build progression?
I think that would be a thread of it's own! LOL! It was done as a short of challenge to make "cheesy" character just for fun... which led to my next three character builds after that PFS Avengers type builds also.
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IMHO, there's nothing wrong with naming your character whatever you like, and styling it however you like, as long as you're legal. Frankly, and maybe this is heretical, but I personally view PFS as a place where you can from time to time get your silly on, because let's face it, you're leveling so quickly that you're not getting as attached to these characters as you do in say an adventure path, and sometimes you're looking to test out a character concept, or play around with an idea you've had, and having the tone be to SERIOUS can damper that.
That being said, I think that we all come with our own expectations, and if folks don't want to sit at a table with Professor Dumbledore, they have that option to choose another table. I know I'll never turn away Darth Vader, but I might give them a askance glance and rib them about no Dark Side characters at the table. As long as they play legal, I'm fine. lightsabers aren't legal at the table because they're not an item listed (can we have Numerian relics in PFS?). If someone is insistent on talking about 'the force', well... I might just pull them aside and suggest they chill, because they're either talking nonsense and others will not 'understand' them, or more directly, they're a buzz kill for the folks who want to play fantasy. Go find a Star Wars game. :)
I do like Mike Brock's idea about immortalizing 12th level characters in game content, and I do think that you'd have to be IP-clean and Golarian-pure to get that boon. Maybe that's incentive enough to curb the silly right out, but it won't' be for some, and frankly they're showing up and playing on their own time and often on their own dime, so what's the harm?
Again, it's about table politics and making sure first and foremost, EVERYONE is having a good time. If there's problems at that level, then we have to trust our Judges to make good... judgements?
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When I'm GMing and someone comes up with a dud name, I'll raise my eyebrows and say "Seriously?" in a way that suggests I won't allow it (even though I have no powers to stop them). A bit of ribbing ensues until they come up with something better. This tends to weed out the bizarre. I do think the believability of PFS is diminished if my character finds herself adventuring with Princess Mononoke or Max Payne.
Though done well - like Captain Andoran! I'd totally roll with it and suggest some fluff to make it more believable. There's a difference between naming your character immaturely or blatantly ripping off another franchise, and creating a genuinely silly, quirky character with a lot of potential for party humour.
and having the tone be to SERIOUS can damper that.
I totally agree. I made a very serious character once, complete with role play quirks. Played him once and haven't had the desire to play him again.
and having the tone be to SERIOUS can damper that.I totally agree. I made a very serious character once, complete with role play quirks. Played him once and haven't had the desire to play him again.
Admittedly, AM BARBARIAN is way more fun to play than most serious characters I've ever made as well.
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I pretty much agree with everything here. (Well, except your synthesist, Tim -- I hate that. :-P)Really? She's my third favorite character (behind the underpowered Ranger/Rogue/Horizon Walker and the Arcane Monk) to play. You really have to look at her as half bad-druid, half bad-monk. Except that she's never had cause to summon anything.
Fair enough. I object to the archetype, actually -- Jenissa just bears the brunt of my bias. :-)
While I don't play PFS for other reasons, I think the best way to handle it is to simply use a nickname that is based on the character's name, personality, appearance, or some other noticable feature of the character. Nicknames are quite common in the real world, and would be equally common in Golarion. Just because someone has a formal name doesn't mean everybody else, or themself for that matter, is required to use it all the time. If a gnome character showed up at the table with a perfectly valid fantasy name that happened to be a paragraph long, most people would simply find something appropriate to call the gnome and move on. To me, "silly" names should just be treated the same way. Find an appropriate nickname for the character and move on.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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As the creator of a "Captain Andoran" character, I don't see the problem with names for fun. My character, with Throw Anything, Exotic weapon Proficiency: Throwing Shield, Equipment Trick: Shield and a +1 Returning Mithril Throwing Shield has been loads of fun for me and other players at the tables I have played him. Locally, we have a whole group of "PFS Avengers", most of them character concepts built just for fun. And isn't that what the game is all about?OK, I *love* this idea. Any chance you'd be willing to share your build progression?
"Do you think this "A" on my forehead stands for CHELAX?"
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I think someone else said it upthread, but it bears repeating.
Just stealing a name doesn't make it a character ripoff.
My Magus, Talyn, got his name from Moya's offspring in Farscape. He doesn't have any plans to bond with his pilot anytime soon (Though I might go blackblade, naming the sword Pilot, or Crais might be funny. Or Harvey for that matter.
And sometimes the name can be a 'reskin' w/o realizing it. I played a Knight Templar immortal named Simon Wargrave. (The 'Wargrave' came from Judge Wargrave in "And then there were none.") It wasn't until much later that I realized I'd made "Simon, Templar."
Now I feel a little sheepish for having characters named Balthazar Picsou and Kitty Galore...
IMHO, there's nothing wrong with naming your character whatever you like, and styling it however you like, as long as you're legal. Frankly, and maybe this is heretical, but I personally view PFS as a place where you can from time to time get your silly on, because let's face it, you're leveling so quickly that you're not getting as attached to these characters as you do in say an adventure path, and sometimes you're looking to test out a character concept, or play around with an idea you've had, and having the tone be to SERIOUS can damper that.
- If your name is not appropriate for Golarion, then there is something wrong with it. In the same way, that we don't drive cars in Golarion, or fly in planes, etc, etc.
- There is nothing inherently wrong with being silly, as long as it is in the context of the PFS setting, Golarion.
- Since when did "serious" get equated with roleplaying in Golarion? Baffles the mind.
Asking of a player that they roleplay within Golarion, is not much to ask. It is such a minimal standard, and it is a shame to see it disregarded.
Where are the PFS standards?
- If your name is not appropriate for Golarion, then there is something wrong with it. In the same way, that we don't drive cars in Golarion, or fly in planes, etc, etc.
- There is nothing inherently wrong with being silly, as long as it is in the context of the PFS setting, Golarion.
- Since when did "serious" get equated with roleplaying in Golarion? Baffles the mind.
Asking of a player that they roleplay within Golarion, is not much to ask. It is such a minimal standard, and it is a shame to see it disregarded.
Where are the PFS standards?
Who gets to decide what counts as appropriate, especially when dealing a lot of people who know enough about Golarion to get by, and not yet enough to know what the full range of what Golarion has to offer in terms of cultures? What if they pick a culture you personally despise, but is fully supported by the world? The problem with having naming standards as rigourous as you suggest is that people have different levels of knowledge about Golarion and different views on what constitutes appropriate.
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IMHO, there's nothing wrong with naming your character whatever you like, and styling it however you like, as long as you're legal. Frankly, and maybe this is heretical, but I personally view PFS as a place where you can from time to time get your silly on, because let's face it, you're leveling so quickly that you're not getting as attached to these characters as you do in say an adventure path, and sometimes you're looking to test out a character concept, or play around with an idea you've had, and having the tone be to SERIOUS can damper that.- If your name is not appropriate for Golarion, then there is something wrong with it. In the same way, that we don't drive cars in Golarion, or fly in planes, etc, etc.
- There is nothing inherently wrong with being silly, as long as it is in the context of the PFS setting, Golarion.
- Since when did "serious" get equated with roleplaying in Golarion? Baffles the mind.
Asking of a player that they roleplay within Golarion, is not much to ask. It is such a minimal standard, and it is a shame to see it disregarded.
Where are the PFS standards?
Ok, I'll play a man who loves his technology. After all, we have Numeria. A lost man raised by apes? Mwangi jungles. John Woo martial arts? Jalmeray or Tian Xia. If someone gives me a name, I can come up with a race and region hybrid to make it fit. Plus, since when do *you* get to decide you know everything about Golarion? To put it simply, any GM who refused a player a seat over a name would likely be told by the local VC to either learn to play nice with others, or not GM. Fun is why we play PFS, just because its not your type of fun doesnt mean others cant enjoy it.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As a point of discussion, how would you feel about a player who brings "Elmister the Sage of Shadowdale" to your table, explaining that the PC is Elminster, who was hit by level-draining undead in Realmspace on his way to Golarion.
("Level draining doesn't work like that." "It does where I'm from. It's a fascinating change, seeming as it were an imposition of some local alteration of the Vecna Enervation Constant.")
As a point of discussion, how would you feel about a player who brings "Elmister the Sage of Shadowdale" to your table, explaining that the PC is Elminster, who was hit by level-draining undead in Realmspace on his way to Golarion.
("Level draining doesn't work like that." "It does where I'm from. It's a fascinating change, seeming as it were an imposition of some local alteration of the Vecna Enervation Constant.")
For one, I wouldn't use the full name and title, but rather an abrreviated nickname, regardless of what name the character used. Second, I'd probably the NPCs treat the character as a bit whacked because, well, it's a loony story that is completely unprovable in character, and the NPCs aren't stupid.