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It seems a pretty simple matter to convert Star Wars d20 to be compatible with Pathfinder, using the Modern Path rules. Excepting perhaps the Force. I'm wondering if anybody has tried a Star Wars conversion before, though? So ya' know I don't have to do all the work myself if it's not necessary. Advice, suggestions, etc. would be appreciated.
Perhaps having Jedi Guardian being an archetype for Psychic Warriors, and Jedi Consular being an archetype for Psions would work?
I liked the way Saga edition handled force powers. Have you checked that out?
Yes. It's not compatible with Pathfinder though, not without a lot of work at least.
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My gm and me were looking at doing this and this is what we came up with.
You would have only the following classes; rogue (for smugglers and such), fighter (for soldiers), barbarians (just in case), monk (teras kazi).
Psion (force adept)
Pyschic warrior (jedi cousilor)
Soul knife (jedi guardian)
Wilder (another form of force adept)
Just rule that force adepts can serve in the jedi order as jedis, they just wouldn't really use lightsabers.
Then add in something like magus arcana to the soul knife to where he can use certain powers so many times per day, or gets some powers and a small amount of power points. You will of course have to take out some powers but shouldn't be too hard. Also, give the psychic warrior the soul knife ability for free (these would be them crafting their lightsabers) but don't all the PW to increase his soul knife for free since they get powers. Haven't been able to do it yet myself. Hope this helps.
Yes. It's not compatible with Pathfinder though, not without a lot of work at least.
D20 is still the center mechanic. Take the various talents and make them class features much like the rage powers of a barbarian. You have a bunch but only limited slots so every Jedi (force user) will be different. Force powers can still be encounter only powers much like in saga edition. Feats can have a force descriptor much like meta magic feats.
I think that it is best to use another system for this. Maybe a star wars RPG or GURPS.
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I think that it is best to use another system for this. Maybe a star wars RPG or GURPS.
May you be trapped in an endless loop where you must watch the Prequil films endlessly.
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I have played every official version of Star Wars roleplaying games to come down the turnpike, and three homebrews based on BRP/Runequest, GURPS and d20 Modern. It's my opinion that Saga was the best implementation of Star Wars in a roleplaying game that has come about yet, and shelling out the twenty or so bucks for the main book on ebay is a way better allocation of time and resources than converting Pathfinder to fit with it.
I have played every official version of Star Wars roleplaying games to come down the turnpike, and three homebrews based on BRP/Runequest, GURPS and d20 Modern. It's my opinion that Saga was the best implementation of Star Wars in a roleplaying game that has come about yet, and shelling out the twenty or so bucks for the main book on ebay is a way better allocation of time and resources than converting Pathfinder to fit with it.
you wont find i for less than 50. but its well worth the price. where as pathfinder is certainly the best system for fantasy roleplaying, saga is the best ive seen for the star wars universe. use saga and make the conversions. its not too bad.
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Thing is, the reason I want a version of the Star Wars rules that is compatible with Pathfinder (or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof), is that I actually want to have the two interact. A bit gonzo I admit, yes, but if Gary Gygax had one of his player's characters teleported to Barsoom, then I can have my characters visit the Galaxy Far Far Away.
Thing is, the reason I want a version of the Star Wars rules that is compatible with Pathfinder (or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof), is that I actually want to have the two interact. A bit gonzo I admit, yes, but if Gary Gygax had one of his player's characters teleported to Barsoom, then I can have my characters visit the Galaxy Far Far Away.
In that case, I get where you're coming from. Check out the d20 version, it's probably 90% compatible.
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If you're set on making Star Wars compatible with Pathfinder, I think the easiest course would be for you to use the Magus as a chassis.
Get rid of several Magus class abilities (spellstrike, spell combat, medium armor, heavy armor etc etc) and focus on the idea of the magus arcana. Give them an Arcane Pool, but change it to a Force Point Pool. Change Magus Arcana to Force Powers and port over the force powers from Saga Edition.
Introduce a new Skill: Use the Force.
Introduce a new Feat: Force Sensitive.
Use the Force checks can't be made, even untrained, unless the character has the Force Sensitive Feat.
Your Magus Chassis can be renamed Jedi, and they can get Force Sensitive as a bonus feat at first level and exotic weapon proficiency (lightsaber).
Replace Medium Armor Proficiency w/ a class focus - Guardian or Consular. Guardian gets access to guardian specific force powers (like force leap) or maybe just bonuses to lightsaber use. Consular maybe get bonus Force Points or access to unique Consular force powers.
It might not help you now, but from what I understand, Dreamscarred Press (who made the excellent, PF-compatible Psionics Unleashed) are working on an archetype for soulknives that gives them limited manifesting ability. I don't think it'll be out for a while, but check out their forums and see if you can get some inspiration--that should really help with making a Jedi Guardian.
Try a mixture of both pathfinder and the saga rules. First, use the classes in the Saga books but remove the bonus feats classes recieved from levels (not counting the 1st level ones). The talent system is really well done and to remove it would be a waste.
Secondly, you'll have to go through and see which feats from Saga and which from pathfinder are compatible mechanically. If you need to, tone down some from Saga or beef up the pathfinder. You will have to playtest some changes.
Combat will be the most difficult to balance to your liking. You can keep the damage ranges from Saga's weapons and remove the damage track while using pathfinder hit point ranges. Combat will be potentially dangerous but when you're shooting blasters and fighting with lightsabers, dangerous comes with the territory.
A lightsaber will definitely be equipment, not a class feature like the Soulknife's mind blade.
I'm not completely sure I want to keep the Guardian/Consular split. Also, I think that force adepts might be represented by oracle or sorcerer archetypes, depending on the exact nature of they're force tradition, they're spells being refluffed as force powers. Another thing to consider is how magic and the Force will interact. Stuff like, does spell resistance work on the force?
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I have played every version of Star Wars RPG from d6 to d20 OCR to d20 RCR and Saga. I even played the GURPS and BESM conversions.
d6 had too many issues to list. . . but Oh! the supplements and modules were awesome.
OCR was a joke.
The d20 RCR Star Wars was a mess. Inconsistent class features, inconsistent rules, overpowered species, extremely dangerous combat, arduous starship combat, etc. . . and don't forget 100+ pages of errata. It was still fun and it had decent supplements and support.
The Saga rules still had some issues, but they were a lot cleaner and I think closer to Pathfinder than the predecessors.
Here is what I would do:
Trash the Saga combat system and replace it with PFRPG. Do the same thing with the skills. (Yeah! we are able to buy skill ranks again!)
Replace the skills with Pathfinder skills. (Except for obvious things that Star Wars has that Pathfinder doesn't like "Use Computer" and "Use the Force").
Keep the classes the way they are (at least at start). Eventually, the first thing I would look into would be some talents and feats for each class that should have been "no brainers" and gained as class features (i.e. what Jedi is not going to take block and deflect?). The next thing would be re-integrating the Tech Specialist and Force Adept classes (I think Saga made a mistake in dropping those).
The Force Power system should work fine.
They added the tech specialist as a web enhancement back to saga.
The issues I see with Saga right now, is some abilities are unbalanced (Ithorians below for instance is insane for a right out of the gate ability) and the system seems like it slows down at the back end (high level) since force powers do the same amount regardless of level...
One possibility is to use the various talent trees to create archetypes for appropriate classes. Like a Soldier archetype for the Fighter. Maybe make a Specialist class to use as a base class for Techs & Medics. For Nobles, you can convert the older version of the Nobel from the Revised d20 version. It is almost identical to the Dragonlance Nobel. Scoundrels are just rogues, but you may want to add tech skills. Just use the rogue with the Scout archetype for scouts. Hero Points can be used in place of Force points. How you want to handle the Force powers is entirely up for debate. Can use the system as is. You can use Psionics Unleashed. I think mainly you must realize that you may, or may not, be able to replicate the movies this way.
They added the tech specialist as a web enhancement back to saga.
The issues I see with Saga right now, is some abilities are unbalanced (Ithorians below for instance is insane for a right out of the gate ability) and the system seems like it slows down at the back end (high level) since force powers do the same amount regardless of level...
They added it as a series of feats. I think they needed a whole class.
At high levels, Force Powers are even better. The skill bonus gets so high that some Force users can beat the defense of high level NPCs like Darth Vader or The Emperor without even rolling.
And since there are numerous abilities that quicken Force powers, you could Force Grip everybody in the room and maintain it every round as a swift action while you Force Lightning them round after round with them restricted to swift actions only. AND you get to hack them with your lightsaber.
Direct damage doesn't matter if you just essentially turned it into a multi-opponent damage-over-time.
I am definitely interested in exploring the possibilities of a Jedi class in my campaign. I've already incorporated Dralasites, witchbreed halflings, elven culture based on Vulcan society, and a half-orc barbarian loosely based on Wolverine.. the possibility of a Kobold Jedi is fascinating (but hold the miticlorins, please)
Please send me more info!
Thought provoking!
Great point about pathfinder specific. I'm still thinking hard about a medieval Jedi - maybe a soulblade with force feats as listed in the Jedi Guardian using the Force like renewable mana points...
There are plenty of spells that can be converted to Jedi powers, like suggestion for Influence with the Force, or example.
Force use definitely modified by wisdom, like you pointed out...
I actually have a system developed, though I can't say for sure if it's a hundred precent balanced. One of my player's wanted to play a jedi-like character so we set about making one that became known as the Sage. At first we just intended to make a soulknife archetype like some people have suggested, but both me and the player felt like psionics didn't seem to fit the jedi-like state very well- so I made a new system.
The basic idea is that the Sage (which with a few class changes can make the perfect jedi) has a pool system equal to 1/2 his level plus WIS mod. He also has a regain rate of points equal to half his WIS per turn (but only if he hasn't stressed his abilities, aka used a force technique for that round). Sage (force) techniques were tiered like feats and each had a base focus cost that was then modified by what extra (if any) tiers add to it; the Sage began with a few of these (the basic, general techs) and learned another at each level or each even level, dependent on archetype.
Example: Zod the Sage use Focus (force) Lift -base focus cost 2-, an ability that works like mage hand. But he's using it to attack, so he uses the ability with a tier of itself, Focus Lift: Thrust - +1 to the focus cost - , to make a 1d6 telekinetic punch. As Focus Lift is a base two focus cost and Thrust adds another one to that, Zod (level 2) just used 3 points of 5 (1/2 Zod's level plus his mod of 4). If next round he doesn't use a focus technique of any kind he will regain 2 focus points (half his WIS mod) or he can attempt to use another Focus ability and regain no focus points.
This class never got tested by a player as the person who wanted to be a jedi changed their mind last call but I have this class with NPC thri-kreen in a Dark Sun-Pathfinder game I run. They were tough but my player's enjoyed fighting them. And while, again, the Sage was meant for standard Pathfinder, I can see its 'casting' system being used in a Star Wars game.
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The Sage sounds like an interesting way to bring in the Jedi. I was thinking about melding the psion and soulknife to make a Jedi-like character, but I'd definitely be interested in seeing the class breakdown of the sage.
The Sage is pretty easy to set up. d6 Hit die, poor BAB, Good Will save, Bad Fort and Reflex. Casts spells per day and knows spell per level like a sorcerer but draw's from the witch list 4+Int skill ranks per level, has the Monk's skill list (though you may wish to change it; I figured the Monk had a very similar outlook to a jedi-like character and so just used it's list instead of a new one).
The class begins play knowing the basic Focus talents (Lift, Sprint, Leap, Resist, and Sting). At second level and every even level after that the Sage earns another talent, so he can either expand upon any of the talents he already knows or can open up a brand new talent tree (Like Shield or even Lightning, for those who are a fan of Sith lords :])
Like I said, the Sage was made more in mind for true Pathfinder, but with a few tweeks can fit easily into Star Wars. If you wait, due to the popularity the Sage and his 'casting' system has gained at my table, I'm making three more classes that use the system, including the Savant: a d8 Sage who drops the spells to focus on, well, Focus. The Savant, once I finish it, would make the ideal Jedi Councillor, so I'll try posting it soon if I can.
Do you have a summary sheet of a Sage build?
Sorry, not as of the moment.
Steve, I'm interested in seeing what you have too.
darth.borehd@gmail.com
Steve, if you are indeed mailing copies of your rules, I would be most grateful.
Perhaps we could introduce the following:
Jedi Guardian Archetypes: Jedi Battlemaster, Jedi Weapon Master, Imperial Knight
Jedi Consular Archetypes: Jedi Sage, Jedi Healer, Watch Circle Initiate,
Jedi Sentinel Archetypes: Jedi Shadow, Jedi Watchman, Jedi Investigator
Sith Archetypes: Sith Marauder, Sith Sorcerer, Imperial Inquisitor, Sith Battlelord, Disciple of Ragnos, Krath, Sorcerer of Tund, Prophet of the Dark Side, Emperor's Hand, Ember of Vahl, Nightsister
Force Adept Archetypes: Dathomir Witch, Matukai, Jal Shey, Zeison Sha, Jensaarai, Tyian, Disciples of Twilight, Kilian Rangers
Soldiers Archetypes: Commando, Martial Artist, Enforcer, Bodyguard
Noble Archetypes: Royalty, Medic, Charlatan, Shaper
Scoundrel Archetypes: Assassin, Spy, Bounty Hunter, Splicer
Scout Archetypes: Pathfinder, Infiltrator, Saboteur, Survivor
Prestige Classes: Jedi Master, Ace Pilot, Sith Lord, Crime Lord, Force Disciple, Dark Side Disciple, Officer
I would also love to see the the workup of this as well.
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This is a bit off topic...
I've been using the "Armour as DR" system from Unearthed Arcana since it came out. I'll be moving over to the system in Ultimate Combat when i start running a game this summer.
I really like how the SAGA system converted Saving Throws into Defenses. I would like to use this system for Pathfinder. I think I have everything worked out but it feels like I'm missing something obvious. With the SAGA system the formula to set DC becomes the bonus to the attack to beat the target's defense.
Something like d20 + spell/effect level + class ability mod vs Defense.
I was considering making it:
d20 + 1/2 character level + spell/effect level + ability mod
since Defenses can get quite high really fast.
It still feels like I'm forgetting something and I can't quite put my finger on it.
Does anyone else have any experience with this?
SM
edit: fixed formatting
This is a bit off topic...
I've been using the "Armour as DR" system from Unearthed Arcana since it came out. I'll be moving over to the system in Ultimate Combat when i start running a game this summer.
I really like how the SAGA system converted Saving Throws into Defenses. I would like to use this system for Pathfinder. I think I have everything worked out but it feels like I'm missing something obvious. With the SAGA system the formula to set DC becomes the bonus to the attack to beat the target's defense.
Something like [i]d20 + spell/effect level + class ability mod vs Defense.[i]
I was considering making it:
[i]d20 + 1/2 character level + spell/effect level + ability mod[i]
since Defenses can get quite high really fast.It still feels like I'm forgetting something and I can't quite put my finger on it.
Does anyone else have any experience with this?
SM
In Saga the defenses rise at 1 per level as they are most often tested against Attack Bonus or Skill Bonus. If it were me, I would indeed set the Attack value increase at 1/2 level, but I would set the Defenses at 1/2 level increase as well.
Actually, this is a good house rule for Saga. Force power attacks are overly powerful at low level because you are testing Skill Bonus vs Defense. Then they become weaker as you go up in level because Defense scales so quickly. I would caution against unaltered use of the Saga Force power or skill systems.
Cheers....ahem...May the Force Be With You.
Just base force powers off of ki like a monk. As long as you have 1 ki you can always do x. It cost one point to do y, and 2 points to do z... And so on. Have abilities that become available at a certain lvl. Look at the Different monks and ninja that get mileage from their ki. Take what you want from those classes and strip the rest down to make it look like a Jedi.
The light saber is iconic, but wasn't even a part of early traditions. You could play Jedi in PF standard setting as an emerging religion.
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My recommendatio if you still wanted to do this was to pull the d20 revised ruleset out and update to Pathfinder. Just drop the vit/wnds system to regular hp, and then do as suggested give Jedi a version of Ki to do their abilities in place of Vitslity cost. That seems like itd be easiest to me.
Ill see if I can look into a quick ki system for you when I find the time.
Ill see if I can look into a quick ki system for you when I find the time.
Qinggong from UM. I think of this as the base Monk that wasn't. But it would make a great foundation for a Jedi class.
I am going to use the 3.5 Star Wars book that used force skills as the basis to model the ki point usage off of.
Dot/ bump... I promise I am going to get to this!