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Not a single book but the Ebon Vault series from Necromancers of the Northwest is a great collection of item books that offer interesting and cool enhancements for varies weapons, armors, boots, and more.


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Gorbacz wrote:
ryric wrote:

As I've thought about this, I don't actually need monsters built like PCs (unless they are NPCs with PC classes) - what I really desire is that monsters are built with some sort of understandable logic. I need to know what happens if I alter some part of the monster, how all the rest of the parts are going to change and interact. What happens if I give the monster armor, or change out its weapon, or give it a wasting disease? What happens if the PCs befriend the monster and ask it questions? The 3.X style stat block is excellent for answering these types of questions.

What I don't want is an arbitrary pile of numbers that only exist for game reasons - this monster has a +X to hit and does Y damage with Z AC because it's CR is A. I want the stats to have an in-game justification that can be understood by the in-world scholars of the game.

Monsters just being a gamey collection of numbers with no internal rhyme or reason was the last straw that made me quit 4e. I went to put some magic armor on a goblin chief, spent about a half hour trying to figure out how doing so would change his AC, trying to figure out how his AC was calculated, until I realized that his AC had nothing to do with his armor, training, or anything else but was simply a number read off the appropriate line for his level and role. Ugh no. That's when I realized I was done with the system.

But you've have had your problem with PF1E already. Monsters with +8 bonus to something because the designer says so. Monsters with weird abilities made to overcome errors in how the type was designed (fey in PF1, undead in 3.5). In 3.5, the deliberately under-CR'd dragons. Monsters with stats pulled out of the blue.

Designers of monsters have been "cheating" since 2000. Gary Gygax was likely laughing at them, because they have self-defeated themselves by declaring that everything is made from the same set of Lego bricks and then had to use Duplo bricks to get things done, while earlier eds just eyeballed the monster....

While I will acknowledge that yes, I have seen a few cases were monster math has been flubbed to make some fit a niche, I can say I have only done that like once and I think it also goes without saying either that most did follow the math in PF1. Even then I have always looked at CR as more of a art than a since; it is a good guideline but hardly concrete. CR assumes the party is a balanced mix when in my experience the party will have all members of a be hyper damage dealers and zero healers. CR also doesn't take player experience into account.


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CorvusMask wrote:
Couldn't you put that creativity into designing monsters with new rules then instead of putting it into creating not!PCs?

That works only so long as your players are willing to allow it. You go to far once, make a unique ability for a monster that seems fair or even just a challenge your party can over come that leans too far on the side of difficult- and like that you have violated your players trust. And a GM without player trust does not end up running a fun game as your players second guess everything you do.

Now this is not to say making unique and interesting monsters from scratch should be a no go but I personally feel like that A.) Should be done sparingly. B.) Is a easier bit to swallow if you can show your player post game how you went about making the creature.

If Paizo does end up releasing in the first Bestiary how they got their stats for monsters then I am content B will not be an issue but A will still be a problem at that point. That one game I mentioned I am currently in but not the biggest fan of? The GM there has us fighting things of his own design that are not what I call the most well thought out creatures and it doesn't make it better that their unique abilities tend to change session from session on the GM's whims.

But that's getting away from the question I feel so I will stop there. Again, this thread alone shows the overwhelming majority of other players and I assume GMs do not share my views. I concede to being a dinosaur. I can say this though- if the stats for monsters and NPCs are going to remain in a state similar to what they are now in the playtest I will not end up GMing. I will try playing the game as a player to give it a chance and give feed back on ways that the game can be improved for players. But I refuse to GM so long as these are the rules for mobs we are given. And unfortunately, being the primary GM in all of my groups likely means that the amount of PF2 groups that will actually occur at the tables I play at will likely be sparse.


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Angel Hunter D wrote:
Mergy wrote:
Angel Hunter D wrote:
Monsters have such large hit values I dont think it'll matter that much
If the monster is hitting easily, maybe he would like to crit for often as well.
Good thing the monster's enjoyment of the game is a non factor

Except it does when you remember that there is a human GM behind the monster.


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I have to say, I would prefer monsters be built in the same or similar method as players. In fact, like 50% of my anxious feelings for PF2 come from how they are intending to handle NPCs and monsters. This is in part of two reasons, one of which is that I am more of a simulationist, so the idea of things like that operating off of different rules just gets to me; I understand this is a view very much left in the minority so I expect to garner no sympathy points on that stance.

That said my second reason for disliking the current thought processes on monsters is due to the pact I really don't ever get to play Pathfinder as a player. Oh I GM it all the time but I rarely get to play what I'd actually get to call a character- and this is with me playing with over 15 different people at four different tables.

This has either always been because A.) The game lasts a session r two. When this happens I am overjoyed but typically when someone aside from me agrees to run a game it lasts long enough for session Zero and half of One before the other GM gets 'really busy' but you know, not busy enough to actually stop playing the game- just busy enough to stop reading the adventure Path hey were pumped to run. Seriously, I think the last character I actually got to play in a legitimate game of Pathfinder was some four or five years ago when I left college. I miss those days.

B.) The games I do get to play these days are just- look, I don't want to come off as mean but most of them are ran by people who want every minute of their plot to be 'oh-snap-panic' from the players. They do this by literally having every encounter be against something so godly that we have no chance of beating- which I am cool with until the godly monster feels oh so kind enough to enlighten us on the true nature of the universe where we then are sent off to tackle another monster that is so godly it does he same thing. So on and so. Seriously, just a few weeks ago i was invited to play in a high level game were we were sent to an unknown world were a GM-Proxy-Supreme Deity needed us to infiltrate a cave to kill a Titan. Which we did until the Titan told us that Baba Yaga was the real foe. And then when we tracked that witch down she was only doing it because the Tarrasque was escaping. Look long story short this went on with five sessions where we literally walked up to each of these monsters with no fighting, no traps, no puzzles, no dialogue beyond your 'foe is in another castle'. And once that game ended the next guy who volunteered to run a game had us role up level ones, much to my joy....up until we got three sessions in where we were suddenly gestalted with five free levels and the promise of even more magic power from an awakening bloodline coming, but then nothing to really do with all of our abilities as GM uber PCs did most of the actual heavy lifting and adventuring. I am still technically in that game but I don't really care for it. An adventure RPG isn't fun when someone else does all the adventuring for you.

Look, done with that venting, back to my long winded point- I easily end up GMing 90% of the time for those 15+ people, partially because no one else ever runs anything that really gets going long enough to be fun, and then also partially because the games hat do last sure are....something alright. Now while I did want to GM when I fist started getting into Pathfinder, I always did so with the assumption I wouldn't have to constantly be that GM, that i was going to get the chance to play the hero one in a while and be the protagonist. But once I realized that wasn't going to be the case I made my peace by hand tailoring everything in my games- the story, dungeons, traps, and of course the monsters/NPCs. Healthy or not these monsters/NPCs are the closet things I really ever get to playing a PC (which I know is an oxymoron but you get what I mean). The Starfinder through me off distinctly because I was encouraged to run paint-by-the-numbers mobs, much like how I see PF2 going with its foe creation system. If I cannot enjoy studding the monsters I will be playing enough to take them apart and reassemble them I do not call that a liberating or fun system. For me the prep work so many people in this forum seem to hate, many of them in this very thread, I enjoy. It gave me a very much needed method to keep my creativity going once I realized that me getting to enjoy Pathfinder as a player was going to be a rare and often fleeting happenstance.

With that said I am a varied player of the system and an advocate for third-party materials, so over my last decade or so of gaming I have seem many takes and variations of monsters I could see work if people really desire easier ways to make mobs for their PCs. One method I have been a fan of in the past is Minotaur Games Underling System; I typically do use the standard Pathfinder system for creating monsters but i did always like the Underling system of creating monsters on the fly for when players do something unexpected for an adventure or when I wanted my party to face hordes without feeling bad about having the party face down at times literally x4 their number.

To make a very long post short: fine tuning monsters are one of the few ways I enjoy the game. I do not feel the current method as provided by the playtest does this at all well and as such I want monsters to be built with more substance, something within keeping of the PCs. Thank you for reading.


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ChibiNyan wrote:

I, for one, welcome our new muscle wizard gish overlords!

BAB was a "fair" mechanics for distinguishing combat skill of many classes, but it started to get tricky to balance the game when the differences in it bot big.

Now I think you add your weapon profiency bonus to attacks, so Fighter still has the edge! But something like Rogue and Cleric can keep up reasonably well if they don't neglect it.

And so can Wizards now. Everyone can swing just as good as everyone else. My money says everyone is going to play like pseudo-fighters now; dropping as much of their proficiency into being good with their chosen weapons. Oh boy, and people thought martials under before wait units 2ed drops.

Fighter: I swinng my sword at the orc with power attack. *Rolls attack and damage* 19 points of damage!

Wizard: My turn! I cast fireball at that group of minions over there. 23 altogether! For my last action I to want to swing my sword at the ocean boss too. *Rolls attack and damage* Crappie, only nineteen points of damage. I knew we shouldn't have given the Fighter that +2 Longsword. I am able to use just as good as he can.


With 2ed around the corner I know the 3rd party material for Pathfinder Classic is going to slow down, eventually even grinding to a halt one day in all likely hood and I have made my peace with that. I don't speak often on these forums but to make long story short I am huge fan of Classic, am not completely on board with 2ed changes, and I am a big supporter of 3rd Party Material. I am starting this thread to first thank the many publishers who have made my weekends rolling dice with my friends interesting. For me these in particular include Dreamscared Press, for updating the fringe systems I learned to love. Drop Dead Studios for radically changing my games for the better. Alluria Publishing for making hands down the funniest setting since Dark Sun, at least in my opinion. And Little Red Goblin Games, for never looking at a concept as a bad idea and saying 'why not!' These are not the only publishers to get my kudos, there are just far too many to name and I am on a tablet at this moment. Anyway, to all of you publishers: thank you so very much for all of the content you have given us already. I know I am not expressing it well but I really do appreciate it.

Now getting past the mushy part and on to the other reason I made this thread- like I stated earlier I have made peace with the fact Classic Content is likely going to dry up soon. I believe Purple Duck Games is going to keep the torch going and I love their work (seriously, I have been combing Ultimate Covenant Magic daily since it's release) but to go from the multitude of publishers we have now to just one garenteed is a painful blow no matter how you sell it. So that is the purpose of this thread- a final wishlist for Classic content before 2e drops.

-Little Red Goblin Games: I have nearly everything you have ever released, including your Alternate Adventures series and I love every book in the series. That is why I hope you guys make at least one more sequel for each book you have out in the series so far, so a AA Social, Ascetic, Magic, and Primal 2 book. Further more, while I know this one is not likely, one last Necropunk book would be nice. Personally a equipment catalog would be nice. And if Gonzo 3 saw the light of day I would be very happy.

-Rogue Genius Games: As a final request I would be so happy if we could get the Talented Alchemist. We get that and I will never ask anything of you again.

-Dreamscared Press: With your Starfinder Kickstarter out I do not want to make any outrageous demands but you did have two classes that as far as I know never saw the light of day besides play testing. The Rajput ( aka the Akashic iniator) and the Tzocalli (aka the True Namesr whose actual name I cannot recall so I put letters together to best approximate how I think it was pronounced).

-Drop Dead Studios: Please at least finish your Spheres of Power handbooks, and if you have the time please make some Might expansions.

-To Anyone: While this last request is a tad niche, it is something I feel is fairly untapped in the 3rd party market.

A Fleshwarpers/Fleshcrafting/Lifeshaping book would be nice. Several publishers, even Paizo, have dabbled with the subject but none have actually created an extensive system for the subject. Sure, the Living Airship adventure has great rules on crafting liVing arms & armor and Neoexous has the Fleshwright but I personally want more than 3 or 4 new properties for my sword or a class (though a organic artificer would be super neat). I want a book with extensive rules on growing creatures, living tools, and grafts.

That's the end ofor my personal requests bUT let's get a list going people. And to the publishers, please feel free to tell of anything you have in the works. Thank you


Dale McCoy Jr wrote:
If anything, Pathfinder's popularity and 10 years of existence will work against it. Developing a product for a random small game (even one with smaller audience size once many transfer over to 2e) will more likely have a higher return on investment than Pathfinder 1e. Because any new PF1e product will compete with all 10 years of history, it means that any product will be lower than the fore-mentioned smaller game.

Meh, I disagree with this. Most of the people I know who collect 3rd party material tend to buy their content of interest regardless of how saturated the market is, myself included. Heck, I know one guy who has every warlock/faux warlock material for Pathfinder out there, homebrew stuff included. And trust me, there are a lot of warlock proxies out their for Pathfinder. If you make something that has its fans they will buy it, regardless if they have rules for it or not. Then again my extended circle of gamers and myself might just have compulsory urges to buy but that is just my two cents.


Little Red Goblin Games wrote:
Let me look into 1&2 but 3 the answer is yes both would have the grappled condition.

Thank you!


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Necromancy is not my intention but I feel like this is the best place to ask- still a huge fan of your Alternate Paths books, with Ascetic Characters still in my top three, but I have a few questions/concerns about one of the classes.

So I finally got the chance to join a game that is pro-3rd party that is running Carrion Crown and I decided to role up a ajna. So far I have enjoyed the class as a balanced if unorthodox member of the party, having just leveled up twice in one session. So now I am level 3, which is great but three things:

1.) At 2nd level, on the Ajna's progression chart there is a class feature called presence of mind that I cannot actually find in the PDF; was this a scraped class feature that got rolled into the book, or is there supposed to be an actual class feature for me at 2nd level aside from Astral Warrior?

2.) The self discovery I took was mind beam which I really like but two questions- one, Mind Beam does not list a range; we have house ruled it for now to be 60ft plus 10ft per level, like everything else the class does but is their an official ruling? And two- mind beam states it is a swift action to use. While a super nice ability that sounds really strong to me so I ruled myself that it must be a standard action to use. Can you clarify if this was intentional or not?

3.) Finally, for my projection and astral warrior class features- if I am (as in my character's physical shell) grappled is my projection effected by the grappled condition as well? Does my Astral Warrior make those attacks at the grappled penalty? For frame of reference, I already had my projection out when animated cuffs found my physical shell and grappled it.


We have any idea how long this will be on backorder? I ordered my copy Sept 13 and just now noticed that this has gone on backorder.


In my games most deities don't usually care for complex hierarchies and a organized faith; further more I do not typically think of many gods interacting enough to form organized pantheons. These are also the way I often see Paizo depict things. Now with that said:

1.) On Golarion (or at least the campaigns I run) I do have some of the deities, the lawful ones primarily, have religious organizations that at least attempt to unify the faithful. Gods like Abadar have the Bank-Temple, a organized faction that not only promotes the worship of Abadar the spread of civilization but acts as a banking guild, unified and organized and established across several nations. They were originally a kind of tongue and cheek reference I made but now my group treats them like the Iron Bank.

2.) Not quite the same thing but I know that the Campaign Setting for Cerulean Seas goes with the concept that the gods, of which there is one of each alignment, came together and created a divine peace treaty of sorts that banned worship of any other deities besides themselves to bring an end to some terrible feud. Holy men in that setting are part of a certain unspoken vow not to fight each other and actively work together to find and route out heretics and cults. Not quite the same thing but it is somewhat organized.

3.) In one homebrew game I am working on I have a empire (based largely around Meso-American societies) based around the worship of a hero-god and the idols he and his disciples created. In this setting traditional deities do not exist beyond the hero-god Xulotil but the Great Old ones do, which along with the serpent-folk are the most dire threat to the empire. As such, anyone caught worshiping the Old Ones (even the fairly benign ones, of which I have made a few} are sentenced to death. Furthermore the empire, during times of expansion has been known to impose their faith on defeated peoples, although those peoples ancestors/gods/totem/ect are believed to be spared by Xulotil to be made into his disciples in the war for mankind.

Hope that adds to the conversation.


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Thanks!


DOTTING for interest.


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All sounds classy- looking forward to it.


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Looking forward to it. In the middle of running a Strange Aeons game but afterwards I am doing a heavily modified Throne of the Night campaign; camp attendants in for a Darklands Expedition sounds awesome.


Another fantastic addition! Always love your work; any ideas on the next Alternate Paths?


I have recently stumbled into a whole heaping ton more free time and I am looking to run another game starting Thursdays. Now all but one of my normal players are busy on Thursday so I am drumming up some locals from my nearest gaming store. Of the candidates they all said they would be fine with house rules so long as they could see them first. An easy feat for me as I tend to keep a list like the one below on my PC at all times.

However this will be my first time gaming with strangers in a while- so I am hoping to get some feedback before I give them this list; does my House Rule Bible come off as too much? Of the candidates, one I know played a little 3.5 a few years ago and is just getting free time to play again, and I have another who speaks for two others plus himself and according to him the three are newer to Pathfinder but use house rules in their games anyway.

Link Here

Also of Note- I may also run with them the Revised Action Economy as I do like it better than the standard action economy, but one of my regulars insistence to run a Musket Master with it always throws me off.


Hey there Gabriel! Always glad to meet a fan of Dragon Mech- looking over your Steamborg as we speak. Just wanted to let you know I was once ran a Dragon Mech one-shot with Pathfinder, though I did little conversion on my end. Instead I used the Mech rules from Little Red Goblin Games, found in their Gonzo 2 PDF, and I also used the Golemoid from the Thunderscape setting as a replacement for Steamborgs. Game went over well but I'd still love to see someone try updating the old material into Pathfinder. Thanks Gabriel!


1.) To everyone saying you need to have a class-less system to really get the world right- do you? Yes, in the video games, the Heroes of TES series are Jack-of-All-Trades, Knight-Ninja-Wizards; however I propose you consider the everyday warriors and spell-casters of Nirn for a second. Think of the Companions and the College of Winterhold. Think back to the Ashlands of Vvardenfell- what about the honor warriors of House Redoran or the scheming Telvani mages?

My point here is that in the world of Nirn everyone else, more or less, is not some sort of weird-chimera of skills the PCs tend to be. For me including the class-less system of the video game is like including the quick save feature: pointless. The universe of the Elder Scrolls is so well loved for its mythos, pathos, and structure, and are the main reasons I see people wanting to Pathfinder there. Holding onto video game mechanics without considering their integrity to the setting causes more harm than good I feel- heck, I once had to play a game of All Flesh Must Be Eaten set in Raccoon City. All six of us had 4 inventory slots each. That's it.

Anyway, my point is that using classes in a Nirn setting, as they are, is fine and fits with the world if not the games. If you need to change something I'd either ban the divine magic classes or work them into arcane hybrid classes- all magic comes from the same source on Nirn and it has more in common with arcane then any other magic type.

2.) cranewings, it seems like you are set with the setting and I say more power to you for that; have fun. However, when you get the chance, you might want to look into the 3rd party book Spheres of Power. It was made to offer up a whole new take on magic for Pathfinder and imitating Nirn's magic was one of its goals, more or less.

3.) @Bjorn Splinter-Spear: Teleporting your Sand-Point players to Nirn sounds awesome Bjorn but on dwarves- remember that beyond a love of digging deep ES Dwarves (aka the Dwemer) and Goloraion dwarves are anklysaurs to armidillos.

-Dwemer are of average height, compared to humans. Dwarves are, well, dwarfed next to us.

-Dwemer deny the gods authority, going as so far as to make a mech capable of tearing reality asunder just so they can be rid of divine influence. The dwarves meanwhile revere their pantheon as not only their creators but THE creators.

-Dwemer professed the power of science, unconditional. Dwarves profess the power of their gods, while considering honor, family, and coin.

-Dwemer were a!*+$+%s, ready to destroy creation on the basis that the world was a dream, and that they could not truly understand it until they woke up (Read: tear reality apart). Dwarves are stubborn and xenophobic, but generally noble and ready to fight all things vile at the drop of a hat.

-Dwemer were elves. Dwarves are not-elves (seriously, as in dwarves are like the antithesis to the elves, their opposites).


-More veils for are current classes; I like the variety we have of course but I still stand by my opinion that vizier could use a bit more offensive veils.

-A totemist-like class: I know you can't actually make the totemist as it was and that is fine but I'd love to see an official take on a character concept that steals monster special abilities. If it helps, I suggest making them mimic things besides magical beasts. For example you could do undead, revive the old 'necarnium' concept or such, or even construct themed, almost like an akashic cyborg. Heck, in my homegames I am trying to pull the concept off with Outsiders, though I am not very far along.

-Non-veilshaping, akashic classes: I remember you saying after the first Akashic Mysteries book you had thoughts of introducing two or three classes that used akashic essence but didn't inherently shape veils. I'd love to see you do something with the concept.

-Akashic archetpes for Occult classes: A akashic occultist that can invest essence in his implements or who can channel his focus into his veils would be awesome. I also think a Akashic kineticist (essenicist?) could work and be cool. Maybe even a spiritualist archetype that can grant its not-a-ghost companion veils?


In my game I am running right now I have a player with the tiefling's large hands trait, who is a Titan Mauler and has taken the lighten weapon feat mentioned above. I ruled, admittedly while being pressured by my table's rules lawyer, that it was legal. Sill, examining just the Titan Mauler and the large hands racial ability? I definitely say they stack.

Just please, for your GM's sake, don't go overboard with it.


So this Sunday I am running a Dark Sun game updated to Pathfinder using a combination of other peoples' conversions and my own house rules. I felt set but two of my players have got me questioning details I haven't covered yet: the witch and the psychic classes from Occult Adventures.

1.) With the witch I actually have a player interested in playing one which I have no problem with. However, after showing her a website with most of the rules we will be asking she asked me if witches can defile and I kind of went blank. In my head, I imagined witches on Athas make pacts with the subtle spirits of the land like druids do, except witches don't really pledge themselves to defend the land as much as uses rites that appease it, thus 'buying' their magic.

Do to this I am tempted to say they can't, yet I can also see witches that learn rights to steal magic instead. Heck, I had a villain planned that was just doing just that. And defiling seems like the best way to represent this, though I still am not sure. Thoughts?

2.) I had another player looking into the psychic detective archetype for the investigator when he asked me how I was going to handle the occult classes. I said that there an option for players, however not actually psioncists (in my games Magic is always a work of someone acting as a conduit for outside power and then shaping it- in psychic magics case they tap into the residual psionic power that bleeds into the air from all thought).

He said he figured that but was curious how they fit into Athas- were they accepted professions, like wilders and clerics? Were they considered dangerous like arcane casters? Was psychic magic an old method of spellcasting or something new, possibly developed do to the high amount of psionic creatures? In the general scope of the Tablelands how did they fit in?

I told him I would get back to him on it after I had gotten advice. Thinking it over I personally like the idea that it is a new form of magic that is just starting to gain momentum. However I don't know how else to ease into the setting to do it justice, such as how well it is accepted (though I do like the idea of the Templers in Draj becoming occultists with the Icon-bearing archetype to make up for the loss of their Sorcerer-King); suggestions?


I personally love the plaguewright and would love a little extra content for it, say with archetypes?


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RGG released alternate rules awhile back where guns attack AC, get to confirm critals against touch, and don't have a misfire value. Personally I like these rules and implement them into basically every game.


So I am planning to run a one or two shot leading up to Halloween and I wanted to do something inspired by popular themes of horror. So I went with the Evil Dead and plan to have the party sealed inside a remote mansion while being subjected to waves of evil laying siege. And the cause of all this turmoil is going to be a artifact called the Vile Heart. It's a ruby, the size of a human heart, that has black, vein like cracks running through it, and if someone listens carefully a heart beat and quiet breathing can almost be heard. I would love some feedback on the mechanics I have devised so far and advice for ways to improve upon my probably sub-par artifact.

Lore:
Long ago there was a nation that turned to the power of sin to forge a mighty empire. Not all the people in this empire were evil at heart however and some began to preach against the course their people were following. One of these individuals was a kind oracle named Huln who peacefully tried to change his people ways. The powerful mages of the empire, who drew upon sin to fuel their empire, grew to hate Huln and sought his destruction. Huln's followers were killed to the last and the battered oracle was left blind and crippled in the wilderness. He would have died had the glabrezu Rallark, having escaped its master's clutches during the attack on Huln's camp, not found him first. Seeing a chance to toy with such a noble mortal Rallark tended to Huln's wounds and cared for him, posing as a orphaned farm girl. As she did, Rallark would constantly try to trick him into making a wish that would let her sow chaos across the lands. Yet for a long time Huln did no such thing. Soon Rallark's whim to toy with Huln turned to obsession and infatuation as she looked for a way to have them wish to be together. Eventually she got him to confess his desires and twisted them as such to her own liking- Huln wanted a way to cleanse the taint from his people's souls- and Rallark gave him the means.

The two become one terrible spirit named Lo that fed off the taint in others and thus saved their souls from the lower planes- yet afterwards Lo would kill them, using the sin it was eating to grow stronger and stronger. The sin-mages grew fearful as Lo grew in power and eventually they combined their might to defeat the Terrible Redeemer. Together they battered Lo into submission and then tore out its heart. Defeated, the mage's lowered their guard and sought to tap into the collected taint trapped within Lo's heart, creating the Vile Heart, never realizing that Lo's urge to consume sin would carry on beyond death.

Description:
The Vile Heart does a few things, none particularly pleasant. First of all the Heart can lay dormant between its uses, but the moment a drop of blood touches the ruby it begins to radiate a evil aura. The aura starts at 1 mile in radius but it grows over time, with each Pulse. The Vile Heart releases a Pulse once per day within its aura's radius, and with each Pulse the aura's radius increases by one mile, to a max of 50 miles. Any creature with a Evil alignment or the evil sub-type that enters the aura instantly knows which direction the heart lies, though they don't learn any information of the Heart itself unless they already possessed knowledge of the artifact. These same creatures must pass a a DC Will save of 10 or be compelled to make their way to the Vile Heart. Those that pass this save are immune to this compulsion effect however this is the only means to gain immunity. Creatures normally immune to compulsion effects must still make a Will save to avoid walking towards the Heart. Mindless, evil creatures automatically fail their Will save and make their way to the Heart. The save DC gets higher as the aura's radius increases, going to DC 15 when the aura reaches 10 miles, DC 20 at 25 miles, and DC 25 when the aura reaches 50 miles.

Creatures in this aura are compelled to act on their vile impulses, furthering their fall into evil. During each Pulse, all creatures within range of the aura must save against the effects of Taint (Heroes of Horror, D&D 3.5). Neutral (N/LN/CN) creatures must save against both Corruption (fort save) and Depravity (will save); failure on either results in 1d4+1 points of taint, though with a +4 to the saves. Evil creatures, while normally immune to the increase of taint, still need to roll a will save to avoid acquiring 1d4+2 points Depravity, though they double their threshold for determining the effects Depravity on them. A successful save for a evil creature still results in 1 point of Depravity. As the Vile Heart causes the taint in creatures to fester instead of causing it, Good aligned creatures and those with the good sub-type are immune to the effects of the Heart. The save DC for these taint effects is equal to the DC evil creatures need to take to avoid the Heart's compulsion effect.

Creatures with a taint score that are slain while in the aura die as normal however all of their taint values are removed; instead that taint goes inside of the Heart where it builds up. Further more, evil actions taken within the aura cause the Heart to acquire 1d10 points of taint. Each time the Heart 'feeds' the vein-like cracks in the ruby convulse and grow darker. Once the Vile Heart has accumulated 1000 points of taint it turn completely black with a red, cat-like eye in the center of it. From that point on the Vile Heart is capable of granting a single wish (one with greater limits than the spell, up to demigod status; it can be used to wish for more wishes, though only three more that act as the spell). To make this wish a innocent (read Good-aligned creature) must be sacrificed within one round of the request. However, before the wish is granted all creatures within the aura with taint are subject to a disintegrate spell as cast by a 20th level wizard; the only difference is that the save DC is equal to 10+the amount of taint a creature has. If this slays the wishmaker the wish is negated and the aura disappears as the Vile Heart goes dormant again. The creatures slain by the Heart's disintegration do not pass on as normal as their souls are bound inside the Vile Heart until the gem is destroyed.

Destruction:
The Vile Heart is very difficult to be destroyed as it requires an almost impossible component. When the stone is full of enough taint to make a wish the ritual must be carried out, however the sacrificed Innocent must be a 'fiend with a pure heart', or as I am setting up one of four things:

-A tiefling or similar spawn with a Good-alignment

-A actual fiend who has done the impossible and overcome their nature

-Someone who is of a Good-alignment but whose soul is bound for any one of the lower planes (such as a CG fighter who owes his soul to a devil or such)

-Or a Good-aligned soul that is/was turned into a fiend through some means

When the Vile Heart is destroyed all of the souls bound within it are freed, all the creatures within the Heart's aura that have taint are panicked for 1 hour and then frightened for 1d4+1 days after that, stopping only to rest when exhausted; they flee from the location the Heart was in when destroyed. Creatures normally immune to fear effects, such as undead, as still effected by this. And finally Lo (the gestalt being of the oracle Huln and the glabrezu Rallark) appears in the closet unoccupied scare the Heart was in, helpless for 10 rounds. In that time Huln manages to wrestle control of the Lo vessel and begs to be slain should anyone be present. After 10 rounds however Rallark regains control and flees, knowing she is too weak to fight and needs to regain strength.

So opinions people? I want something formidable in scope but not immediately all-powerful.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Combat Maneuvers Only provoke on a failed check.

Hit Points Maximum until Level 5. Average thereafter.

I definitely agree with the ruling on Combat Maneuvers- I have been using those rules since day one.


Hark wrote:
In honor of the greatest Kobold of all time the only right and proper class for a Kobold would be a Psion. If you're not into 3pp, I guess you could try the psychic.

...that kobold's name wouldn't be Billy, would it?


Malwing wrote:
OmNomNid wrote:

Hey there Malwing! I have an idea indeed, as I both use the stamina system (extensively-man I love it!) and the Books of Martial action in my games, and blend them together to do so.

In my games I introduced the concepts of exercises- free martial techniques people earn as their BAB gets higher, starting with one and earning another for every +3 to a character's BAB. I had exercises in place just before Unchained but once I read the stamina system in that particular book I couldn't stop myself from tying them together.

And those exercises? Well why I have had some home-brewed up, I count the content in the Books of Martial actions as exercises. And so far it's been a blast.

While I can't say for sure such an action is balanced in a standard Pathfinder game I know you and I tend to feature 'all the content' in our games. Furthermore, as long as everyone learns exercises it's not much of an unfair advantage.

As for needing to change the material in the BoMA to fit with stamina, well they actually run well enough as is, so it should be fine just using them with stamina costs. I do suggest though either making a series of 'recover stamina' spells or allowing cure spells to restore stamina (I say at a rate of minimum dice roll plus level; so if a cure light wounds would heal 1d8+4, it instead could restore 5 stamina. Potions too), and let fighters opt to replace bravery with a bonus to their stamina pool.

In regards to keeping stamina costs, I have been mentally toying with the idea of halving the costs rounded up. In a lot of cases they are pretty expensive ammounting to being able to do two good ones per fight but some of the lower BAB ones are potentially overpowered at half cost. Especially ones like the one that automatically threatens a critical. Combined with some weapons this gets nasty.

Well maybe- my current party that has really gotten into them is only level six, so most of the ones they took are dirt cheap. Yet to have any real expensive stamina costs above five.


Hey there Malwing! I have an idea indeed, as I both use the stamina system (extensively-man I love it!) and the Books of Martial action in my games, and blend them together to do so.

In my games I introduced the concepts of exercises- free martial techniques people earn as their BAB gets higher, starting with one and earning another for every +3 to a character's BAB. I had exercises in place just before Unchained but once I read the stamina system in that particular book I couldn't stop myself from tying them together.

And those exercises? Well why I have had some home-brewed up, I count the content in the Books of Martial actions as exercises. And so far it's been a blast.

While I can't say for sure such an action is balanced in a standard Pathfinder game I know you and I tend to feature 'all the content' in our games. Furthermore, as long as everyone learns exercises it's not much of an unfair advantage.

As for needing to change the material in the BoMA to fit with stamina, well they actually run well enough as is, so it should be fine just using them with stamina costs. I do suggest though either making a series of 'recover stamina' spells or allowing cure spells to restore stamina (I say at a rate of minimum dice roll plus level; so if a cure light wounds would heal 1d8+4, it instead could restore 5 stamina. Potions too), and let fighters opt to replace bravery with a bonus to their stamina pool.


Neat concept but one I think you've been beaten too. While I can think of many engineer classes, Age of Electrotech has the technician, which I honestly feel like helped inspire the occultist to some extent. It's a great book- pretty sure Radiance House released it.


I like them and I think they are fairly balanced. Enough to use in my games anyway.


Alright, just checking. Was really looking forward to it is all.


Akashic Blade not going through then?


Well elf for race seems the most immediate decision for race. Tiefling could work too I suppose but I don't think it is required; you said the disfigurements are throw backs to a earlier time so I think elf works great, maybe with a drawback.

Alignment wise I feel Neutral Good, though any Good alignment seems cool to me. She ran away before her arranged marriage, displaying the want for freedom, even if up set at the time, and thus pointing at a Chaotic alignment component.. However it says she is looking for someone to temper her better towards helping others and going out of her way to lend assistance. So Neutral Good.

Class is a lot harder to pinpoint and depends on any natural talent she possess or skills she acquired growing up. I say either rouge, bard (being elven nobility and all), or even a sorcerer as her latent and fiendish bloodline begins to emerge.


Personally I take a rather philosophical approach to the whole thing.

In my games magic, akasha/incarnem, ki, and psionics are used for similar effects but gathered and used in different ways. Psionics and magic are parallel sources of power as both are typically used to warp and alter reality. The difference is that psionic powers are exclusively powered by ones own willpower- pure mind over matter pulling at the seam of reality. Spellcasters, of every variety, are just conduits. The powers they wield and create are not their own. Even sorcerers don't technically have raw power in their veins, they are just born as naturally conduits based on their bloodline.

Psycic magic, or occult magic as I have started calling it in my games, is still magic- its users are still spellcasters (the kineticist being an oddball), so they channel power from outside sources. Specifically in my games, psychic magic actually channels the latent psionic energies of the world around them: from themselves, to others near by, plants, and heck, even the souls of recently departed. Psychic magic in my games is powered by leeching from psionics. Yet it is still not the same as manifesting.


Does it need conversion? I have been using it as is, more or less.


OmNomNid wrote:

Hmm, gotcha. I will need to try those options out, see what works.

Any imput on updating and creating new things for the psykills? I feel like the psychic is good for now. We need to progress.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Just an idea but what about Psychic Flexibility, similar to a Brawler where a Psychic can access any Psychic feat they qualify for, for one minute.

Or perhaps they can do so any time at the cost of some strain?

I like the thought of it; you mean as a Psychic Mastery, correct?

Also, any thoughts on how to best handle awakening more uses with psychic talents.


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All righty, it has been awhile but a few things:

1.) The Psychic has been updated so it actually has a capstone now, gets Wild Talent at first level, and some wording has been updated. Specifically I am working on updating the actual Psychic Skill feats and I have decided to actually name them directly after the seven disciplines of psionic powers, as given to us by the brilliant Dreamscarred Press. This I credit as Dudemeister's idea as it I feel it's what he had in mind. I'm sure he can confirm for us at any rate.

Either way, this means we have two new psychic skills to stat up: Metacreativity- creating solid, mental constructs- and Athanatism- manipulating the dead with psychic powers.

So with those two we have:

-Psychokinesis, Psychoportation, Metacreativity [Int]

-Clairvoyance, Psychometabolism [Wis]

-Telepathy, Athanatism [Cha]

This setup seem okay with everyone?

2.) So part of the delay is that I have been trying out this update first hand in playtest. In one I am GMing while a player roles a straight Psychic (level 7, Psychokinesis and Psychportation) ) and then I am playing in a Skulls and Shackles game with a Tactician (level 5, Psychokinesis and Telepathy [with feats]).

Both of us are enjoying the rules but we are both finding it like we are not getting the most out of our feats as they are. Despite the Psychic getting a new use of their ability every three levels, and me getting mine through the Skill Unlock feat (Telepathy), we both don't get to commit to encounters with our psychic skills. For me it isn't that terrible as I still have class features to fall back on. However my player's class features are, essentially, these psychic skills and it seems wrong he impacts so little. So I have two solutions to propose to fix this:

A.) Psychic skills can have further abilities bought like the skill tricks from 3.5, with skill ranks and the purchase value being equal to half of your current abilities with a skill rounded up.

Example: You have the Telepathy Skill feat and can use Sense Minds and Illusion with it. This gives you 2 abilities with Telepathy and now you want to be able to use Dreamwalk. Having just leveled you have 7 skill points to distribute but you can opt to spend one of those ranks, not distribute it, and unlock a further ability with Telepathy, Dreamwalk in this example.

B.) Every two ranks in a psychic skill rank grants you another ability of said skill.

Thoughts, ideas, or solutions?


So, getting caught up with all the talk of ships and mecha- what can we see in the way of character options?

Archetypes and the like for characters: any plans for a space exploring ranger archetype? Stuff like that?

New equipment and gear for players? Any examples to share?

And finally rules and templates for aliens and other space-born threats?


Sorry if I overlooked your reasoning behind this as I've only glanced at the classes but: Why is the Steamwarrior Charisma based when almost everything about the class points to them being Intelligence based? I mean the class is set up as a almost dark age Tony Stark but instead of using his Int to invent his armor and operate it I guess he just sort of... I imagine use his natural Cha to convince others to build the suit for him. It just seems like a weird design choice is all.


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They all sound great; can't wait to be a bander-snatch man!


Giant cockroaches and centipedes.


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Hmm, let me think of some ideas while you guys are taking suggestions:

- First of all, a African supplement would rock; I feel like your Heroes of the West line already covers America based adventures decently, but the Dark Continent rarely get any love. A real shame, as it has a lot of potential. Of course only take a stab at it if you feel like you could do it justice but remember this: your only real competition at this time would be the Southlands. Just saying.

- A Heroes of the Stars would be neat from you guys; I know Necropunk is your team's baby, but I think a book with some setting neutral, space faring player options would be neat. I could see a 'Rocketeer' archetype for the Cavalier replacing his mount for a jet pack, a Astronaut ranger alternate class, and rules for some pre-made rockets and spaceships.

- A long while ago you guys made a book with rouge options and said you were looking for more class suggestions to give a nice set of tools. Well I'd love to see you guys do something for mad science and make a similar books for Alchemists- new discoveries, archetypes, extracts, and of course BOMBS!

- I have always had an idea to change the sorcerer a bit but never felt like I was up to the challenge of the project in mind. See, while I like sorcerers, I think a archetype that replaces spellcasting could be done. The idea is every bloodline gives lists of supernatural options and spell-like abilities, kinda like the warlock of old. Like for instance a Verdant bloodline would have a bunch of bloodline gifts around shooting thorns, spores, and growing fines. I just figured it would be neat to have a mutant base class.

- Gonzo 3 and a Racial Guide Number 5 of course, hehe! I even have a class to offer this time around to Gonzo 3 and I think a race book centered around races made of others that have been altered would be cool- like a race of creatures born from plague carriers or another race that is born from those subjugated to a certain spell. Think vampires and Dreamscared's Elans.

- A book of archetypes and options for Little Red Goblin classes. In hindsight this should be the first one I listed for just how amazing it'd be to have.

That's all I got for now.


Looking forward to your more in depth input but I think I hear where you are coming from; still looking forward to it.


Alright, we need to decide on a capstone for the Psychic class and also decide how we are going to handle psykills; I know you want squeeze them into six broad ones- how would they work in your mind with skill unlocks?


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Whoops, that's my bad, I misread the table and thought you got a mastery at 2nd, like a rogue talent.

4th and every 6 levels thereafter is better, it means you can get 3 over the course of a career, and you don't step too heavily on the Bard's toes with the similar ability.

Not a problem; glad you like the setup.


You have V.P.A as a choice as early as 2nd level. However with the class's current progression you don't select your first Psychic Mastery until 4th level- either V.P.A. needs to change or the class's progression has to.

Edit: Also, I have it set so you can edit the document yourself. Wasn't sure if you knew that or not.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Only against other psychic skills.

Honestly a skill check is usually going to be much higher than a save bonus so that's not really something you want to keep around.

I would remove Psychic Shield as a skill, and make it a Mastery or a Psychic feat.

Something like

Psychic Shield
Your mental barriers are powerful enough to withstand powerful mental attacks.
Prerequisite: Psychic Ability
Benefit: When you fail a Will Save you may immediately take an amount of non-lethal damage or Strain equal to the Caster Level of the ability (or skill ranks in the case of a psychic ability). If you do so, you may ignore any other effects of the ability.

While I will admit that is true regarding normal saves, I always liked the idea of Psychic Shield being a roll off against other psychic skills [pskills]; it seemed like a nice little extra barrier against mentle attacks. Still, let's include it as a mastery and see how others like it- can't hurt at all.

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