A good price would be what the character can scrape together. Enough to be painful, but not enough that it is impossible. For an in-world answer, it would wildly depend on location, type of establishment, and a million other factors.
If you want an absolute answer... 10-20,000. 3e Strongold builders guide put it at 13k or so, Second Darkness had a casino worth about up to 20k. I'm sure a thousand other sources have different prices but, well, those are the books sitting closest to me.
... What's a good price for one do you think?
I'd say it has to be hellishly dependent on location. To a lesser extent on size and condition.
A little 5 room shack in the middle of nowhere: 50 gps.
A elegant multistory spread in a thriving, growing, port city, on the edge of the noble district: might be as much as 50,000 gps.
Might try to find an old copy of the stronghold builders guidebook for a rough idea of how much it would cost to throw up the building and add ons you want in it.
Edit, carp ninja'd again.
I don't mean for the night. For the whole inn. Got a PC who want to buy an Inn. What's a good price for one do you think?
Well, I'm just spitballing here, but a single night's stay in a common inn is 5sp. Assuming you have at least 3 visitors a night (acceptable for a successful inn, I think) That's 15sp a night in income. Were I selling my inn, I would want around 5 years prospective income to guarantee my family wouldn't go hungry while I looked elsewhere for employment. 15sp*365 days/year*5 years is about 2700 gold, less if the owner was allowed to stay on as a paid inkeeper (essentially buying a hireling as part of the deal). Sounds reasonable as an amount for an adventurer, especially if the whole crew chipped in, considering they are buying a steady flow of income.
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I just know that somewhere I have this info - TBH if i do find the info i'll post it up but ask the player to 'map out' the property..for instance if i said i want to buy a house, it's a general statement...ask him for number of rooms, floors, staffing requirements, expected gross/net earnings, suppliers for food and beverages, menu, will it have a connected stables/coach house and smithy, will the staff live on site or turn up every morning, types of customers - adventurers, dock workers, merchants, elves only, humans only, etc etc etc
OK i admit that some of the asks are a bit an*l but if the player wants an inn, let them run it and don't let them use it as an excuse to have money rolling in!!! and ask if they want their characters to have a career as an adventurer or an inn keeper LOL that may put them off
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the costs for dwellings from WFRP 1st Edition:
Rural Hovel 90 gold crowns
Rural House 270 gc
urban house 450 gc
urban house (well to do) 1500gc
urban house (wealthy) 2400 gc
opulent house with gardens 4800 gc
rich nobles town house 21,600 gc
small palace 30,000 gc
TBH 10-20K seems extremely steep, especially in the current market LOL. Is Golarion going through a recession or is it just the RW :D
Gotta build the Inn first. Generally an existing business costs 3 to 5 years gross income (not profit, income...).
So, take # beds x .8 (fill rate) x 365 days x 5 sp x (3 to 5) years.
Add (# meals /day x price of meal x 365 days x (3 to 5) years).
If stabling available add (# stalls x .8 (fill rate) x 365 days x (3 to 5)years x 5 sp)
This is going to sound inconsistent with some things I've said elsewhere, but I really wish there was some reference in one of the Pathfinder rulebooks for things like this. Or at the very least, prices on *some* type of structures, dwellings, etc. As I recall, in the 3.5 PHB there was a list that was something like:
Common House (1-3 rooms) = 1,000gp
Grand House (? rooms) = 5,000gp
etc.
I'm not aware of any official Pathfinder prices on such things and it drives me crazy. In a pinch, I will fall back to 3.5, but I'd like to know what the "official" prices are. And maybe (read: hopefully) they'll also come up with categories of buildings I hadn't even thought about before...
This is going to sound inconsistent with some things I've said elsewhere, but I really wish there was some reference in one of the Pathfinder rulebooks for things like this. Or at the very least, prices on *some* type of structures, dwellings, etc. As I recall, in the 3.5 PHB there was a list that was something like:
Common House (1-3 rooms) = 1,000gp
Grand House (? rooms) = 5,000gp
etc.I'm not aware of any official Pathfinder prices on such things and it drives me crazy. In a pinch, I will fall back to 3.5, but I'd like to know what the "official" prices are. And maybe (read: hopefully) they'll also come up with categories of buildings I hadn't even thought about before...
I believe the Guide to Absalom has prices on building ownership. Although it is with relation to the different quarters in Absalom.
Just had a thought!!! Isn't this sort of info in the Kingmaker AP somewhere?Yes. Lots of building listed by number of build points requuired in Kingmaker. eg
** spoiler omitted **
Just to clarify, behind the spoiler, turning BP into gold, that would put a house at 12 thousand gold, an inn from 20 thousand to 40 thousand, and taverns from 24 thousand to 48 thousand gold. My word, that's a lot of cash.
The problem with presuming exact values, however, is that in Kingmaker a building =/= a building (but instead an entire city block), and BP =/= gp (but instead the local purchasing power an economy has available at any one time that has a vague gp-value attached, kind of like a Gross National Product doesn't equate to an actual cash on-hand that the government has available for its members' use, but rather the general strength of the economic system given a broad cash-value^ for estimation purposes.
That said, I could totally see the alternate value of BP when converted into gold (2,000 gold each) as the standard, producing a house for 6,000; an inn from 10,000 to 20,000; and a tavern from 12,000 to 24,000 gold.
That's still a metaphorical^^ metric ton of money, however it's a more manageable system in that it makes more sense that such places exist than the first set of values.
^ Please note that Tacticslion has no idea what he's talking about. Feel free to correct him economists.
^^ It may or may not be literal too, I haven't done the math.
I believe the Guide to Absalom has prices on building ownership. Although it is with relation to the different quarters in Absalom.This is going to sound inconsistent with some things I've said elsewhere, but I really wish there was some reference in one of the Pathfinder rulebooks for things like this. Or at the very least, prices on *some* type of structures, dwellings, etc. As I recall, in the 3.5 PHB there was a list that was something like:
Common House (1-3 rooms) = 1,000gp
Grand House (? rooms) = 5,000gp
etc.I'm not aware of any official Pathfinder prices on such things and it drives me crazy. In a pinch, I will fall back to 3.5, but I'd like to know what the "official" prices are. And maybe (read: hopefully) they'll also come up with categories of buildings I hadn't even thought about before...
Yeah, the Guide to Korvosa is the same way. I don't think one can assume that those prices are necessarily applicable elsewhere. I expect it would be *much* cheaper to buy a house in, say, Sandpoint, or certainly it would be cheaper in places like Kassen or Falcon's Hollow...
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Reaper Miniatures
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Just had a thought!!! Isn't this sort of info in the Kingmaker AP somewhere?Yes. Lots of building listed by number of build points requuired in Kingmaker. eg
** spoiler omitted **
Just to clarify, behind the spoiler, turning BP into gold, that would put a house at 12 thousand gold, an inn from 20 thousand to 40 thousand, and taverns from 24 thousand to 48 thousand gold. My word, that's a lot of cash.
The problem with presuming exact values, however, is that in Kingmaker a building =/= a building (but instead an entire city block), and BP =/= gp (but instead the local purchasing power an economy has available at any one time that has a vague gp-value attached, kind of like a Gross National Product doesn't equate to an actual cash on-hand that the government has available for its members' use, but rather the general strength of the economic system given a broad cash-value^ for estimation purposes.
That said, I could totally see the alternate value of BP when converted into gold (2,000 gold each) as the standard, producing a house for 6,000; an inn from 10,000 to 20,000; and a tavern from 12,000 to 24,000 gold.
That's still a metaphorical^^ metric ton of money, however it's a more manageable system in that it makes more sense that such places exist than the first set of values.
^ Please note that Tacticslion has no idea what he's talking about. Feel free to correct him economists.
^^ It may or may not be literal too, I haven't done the math.
There's also the stipulation that when a PC is depositing his GP into the Kingmaker economy, he must deposit 4,000 GP to generate one BP, but when withdrawing from the kingdom economy, the kingdom loses one BP per 1,000 GP withdrawn. So is an inn in Kingmaker 5,000gp or 20,000gp? (and yes, there's still the other buildings on the block that factor into that cost.)
too much stuff!
There's also the stipulation that when a PC is depositing his GP into the Kingmaker economy, he must deposit 4,000 GP to generate one BP, but when withdrawing from the kingdom economy, the kingdom loses one BP per 1,000 GP withdrawn. So is an inn in Kingmaker 5,000gp or 20,000gp? (and yes, there's still the other buildings on the block that factor into that cost.)
The 4k value was what appeared in the spoilered box in ZomB's post above.
As far as "putting money in requires 4k v. taking money out gets 2k", I'd just say it's general inefficiency of government in action. The government does not historically handle money very well, and when you just give money away it tends to go quickly, and when you wring it out of your people, you net less than you should. So one could more reasonably look at a BP as being "actually" worth around 3k, with a 1k "penalty" for deposit or withdrawal due to inefficiency.
THAT SAID:
I totally realized after the fact that (even though I'd mentioned it in my post!) the values I gave were still for a neighborhood/block, not for individual structures!
For that reason, I'd price things around half to one tenth the cost I gave there. Probably one tenth for housing (to be more affordable to families) netting a house costing around 600 gold to craft (although most families will use craft to cut the price down when not in cities) while something like an inn would be more in 4,000 to 5,000 gold range (half the value) because it's large, would need many amenities, and the owner would need to put in a lot of money before they saw a return investment, which is what that covers (not just raw materials to be made). But that's totally out of thin air and presuming a smaller settlement, not a larger city (where prices are presumably higher).
Which brings up the latter point. A PC is going to be an innkeeper or and adventurer. It's rather hard to do both.
Who buys inn to be innkeeper anyway? After buying a tavern our 3.5 party hired bartender and cook and we are looking forward to hiring barmaids. Monthly income? Between 15-25 gp until we upgrade it. Our 3rd level characters can earn more by slacking on guard duty so it isn't our source of income but a past time and home base.
Which reminds me that I have to judge worth of an inn the party halfling rogue want to buy in my Pool of Radiance game.
***edited***My quote about how I'd like to have prices for houses and other structures***edited***You do understand that Pathfinder's main goal is adventure gaming, not Papers and Paychecks? Basically if a PC wants to buy an Inn straight out, he's not going to have the coin to do so. He's also either going to have to build one straight up, after getting the land to do so, or convince someone to sell. Or win one at a sabacc table.
The real question, is how does this fit into your game? Is it a diversion, a sidetrack? or something you want to incorporate. If it's the former... get the PC's busy doing what they need to do, if it's the latter decide on a variety ways, gambling at the aforementioned sabacc table, getting the goods on a corrupt innkeeper, or marry the innkeeper's daughter and settling down. (this generally means the end of the adventuring career)
Which brings up the latter point. A PC is going to be an innkeeper or and adventurer. It's rather hard to do both.
First of all--NICE! on the reference to Papers & Paychecks. I still remember that issue of Dragon with that cartoon in it! (I wish those magazines still existed).
Second, yeah, I know the game is focused on adventure and that's why I play, but the system is robust enough (as was 3.5) to accommodate a wide variety of games and in-game activities. I personally have no interest in playing a character who manages an inn, but I'd like for my characters to be able to buy houses (or possibly castles) when they become rich and powerful. No, they're not going to get into the real estate game of "flipping" houses in Korvosa, but sometimes it is cool for a character to have a place to sleep when he isn't crawling through a dungeon. I think houses, land, etc. can be nice "treasures" in their own right. Plus, they *can* provide some adventure hooks (e.g. You find some loose bricks in your basement/cellar wall...upon inspection, it looks like there is some type of passageway beyond. What do you do? Your manservant tells you that some livestock have gone missing on the western edge of your holdings. What do you do?)
Some folks like to enjoy the game as more than a beer & pretzels, meat & treasure kind of game. Sometimes it is nice to approach it as more of a sandbox type of experience where the characters have lives and interests in addition to killing monsters and taking their stuff. There's nothing wrong with playing either way. Gary Gygax isn't going to rise from the grave and James Jacobs and Erik Mona aren't going to come to your house and set fire to your flip-mats. To each his own and all that.
...Sometimes it is nice to approach it as more of a sandbox type of experience where the characters have lives and interests in addition to killing monsters and taking their stuff....
{sigh} Wish I could find a group in my area that could handle that kind of play. I used to really enjoy it as a player. But it is much more difficult for the GM. I know I can't handle it, I have a hard enough time with a published AP.