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I mentioned this in the Beginner Box Preview thread, but I think these things deserve their own thread.
Pawns:
I LOVE THEM
Paizo, I think you should seriously consider a line of these things. Think about the plus side:
• You already have the artwork
• They must be relatively cheap to make (compared to minis)
• They could be sold by the sheet or in campaign packs
• You could also sell the bases separately
From our end:
• They are easy to store
• They are easy to assemble
• They are light-weight
• They are durable
• They are simple to use
• They match the art from the books
• They don't need to be assembled
A win/win all the way around!
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I mentioned this in the Beginner Box Preview thread, but I think these things deserve their own thread.
Pawns:
I LOVE THEM
Paizo, I think you should seriously consider a line of these things. Think about the plus side:
• You already have the artwork
• They must be relatively cheap to make (compared to minis)
• They could be sold by the sheet or in campaign packs
• You could also sell the bases separatelyFrom our end:
• They are easy to store
• They are easy to assemble
• They are light-weight
• They are durable
• They are simple to use
• They match the art from the books
• They don't need to be assembledA win/win all the way around!
+1
Also Paizo, I think in future promotional materials it's worth noting that the Beginner Box includes pawns for ALL the monsters in the included bestiary. It's a great feature and it really hits home that this really is a complete set.
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Yes, I second that. Despite my preference for painting and gaming with my own metal miniatures, I would also like to have the heavy card stock pawns as well! For some reason I can't get into plastic, but the paper pawns just seem too cool!
I like the portability of the pawns and, the high quality with which they are printed. Much easier to carry a bunch of these for times when I travel to GM a game. I hope they do this. :)
Bel. ^^
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Yes, I second that. Despite my preference for painting and gaming with my own metal miniatures, I would also like to have the heavy card stock pawns as well! For some reason I can't get into plastic, but the paper pawns just seem too cool!
I like the portability of the pawns and, the high quality with which they are printed. Much easier to carry a bunch of these for times when I travel to GM a game. I hope they do this. :)
Bel. ^^
For the last ten years I've been using Steve Jackson Games' Cardboard Heroes, but they're starting to wear out, they've always been annoying to fold, and, frankly, I'm getting bored with them.
Paizo, I want to give you my money for these pawns. I would buy all the sets and store them in those plastic tackle boxes. Please let me give you my money. :)
i put a +1 on this as well i like metal minis but my players will not buy them and i dont mix mach
Agreed.
I very much like the figures in the Beginner Box. The heavy stock cardboard will make them a lot more durable than the equivalent from the Cardboard Heroes line. As mentioned above, they'll be easier to store (and transport, for that matter) than bulkier metal or plastic figures, and they should also be a good deal more economical.
My only complaint with the Beginner Box figures is that they aren't two-sided. A front and a back picture would be useful when running combats to eliminate arguments about the character's facing. Still, there are ways around that -- a piece of stout paper or light cardboard stuck in the base on one side of the figure to indicate the back, for instance.
At any rate, I'd be delighted to pick up a pack of figures in the Beginner Box style for each of the Bestiary books, as well as extensive character (PC and NPC) sets -- perhaps organized by race so DMs can choose packs that fit the race selection available in their respective worlds and campaigns, and players can focus on the races they tend to play most frequently. This style of figures seems a good compromise between economy and sturdiness.
All in all, excellent!
Agreed.
I'd be delighted to pick up a pack of figures in the Beginner Box style for each of the Bestiary books, as well as extensive character (PC and NPC) sets -- perhaps organized by race so DMs can choose packs that fit the race selection available in their respective worlds and campaigns, and players can focus on the races they tend to play most frequently. This style of figures seems a good compromise between economy and sturdiness.
I have a vision of these things sold in sheets or as packs...
A sheet of goblins, a sheet of orcs, a sheet of skeletons, a sheet of drow -- basically one sheet that has like 30 different pieces of all the "cannon fodder" races
Single sheets that have somewhere between 15 - 30 different monsters (depending on size)
A dragon pack for each color, which would probably have two sheets: A bunch of smaller to middle-age dragons and another sheet with a gigantic one
A fighter sheet, a wizard sheet, a rogue sheet, a cleric sheet -- with males and females of course -- and maybe the other classes would each get their sheets or maybe some of the lesser-played classes could be combined
A sheet of the prestige classes from the book
A sheet of animals
A sheet of good-aligned outsiders, a sheet of demons, a sheet of devils
et cetera! Two single sheets per month at $3.00 per sheet, or one pack at $10.00 a sheet, sell the bases for $5.00 for 20, and eventually all the monsters in the MM could be covered. Oh, man.
This is something I can totally get behind. I love metallic minis but these paper pawns would be perfect to supplement my gaming collection as it takes me lots of time and money to build a mini collection.
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My only complaint with the Beginner Box figures is that they aren't two-sided. A front and a back picture would be useful when running combats to eliminate arguments about the character's facing.
Did you know that the Beginner Box (and the Core Rulebook) don't use facing at all?
My only complaint with the Beginner Box figures is that they aren't two-sided. A front and a back picture would be useful when running combats to eliminate arguments about the character's facing.Did you know that the Beginner Box (and the Core Rulebook) don't use facing at all?
3rd edition D&D in any form hasn't used facing, not that I'm aware anyway. If somehow it ever came up I never had a problem figuring it out. And if you want to determine facing, use a black marker and run it along one edge of the pawn and call that the "sword edge" so that a miniature turns to point the black edge toward the desired opponent.
Did you know that the Beginner Box (and the Core Rulebook) don't use facing at all?
That, I did not know. Interesting.
The point certainly explains why the figures have no backs, since it means Pathfinder players would have no need of them. (Of course, I suspect that cardboard figure sets would have a little wider market appeal if they had backs as well as fronts. Merely a thought....) Still, as I mentioned, the issue is a minor one and quite easily gotten around.
As you can no doubt tell, I'm very new to Pathfinder -- and for that matter to post-TSR D&D. The release of the Beginner Box was very well timed for me, as I've only just started looking into the system.
Sadly, although I've gotten my box set, I've had no real time to read it thus far, since almost all my gaming efforts right now are going into the looming Halloween session for my current game (which uses the fourth edition of the Hero System, incidentally). Once the eve has passed, I hope to explore the Pathfinder system.
Dont worry GT, I came from 2nd ed to Pathfinder as well, so the demise of facing came as a shock to me as well.
Dont worry GT, I came from 2nd ed to Pathfinder as well, so the demise of facing came as a shock to me as well.
Thank you, Shifty.
I'm actually coming from a B/X Basic D&D and first edition AD&D background, and I have only limited experience with second edition. (When the then-new rules came out, I quickly got annoyed with some of the decisions TSR made -- the cutting of the demons and devils from the game, for instance -- and switched to GURPS, then to the Hero System. Things got better in the second edition line, of course, but by then, I was well into the other systems.)
Still, I appreciate the moral support.
-- the cutting of the demons and devils from the game, for instance --
Oh I remember that too!
We weren't happy about it either, just smacked of 'placating the numpties'.
We just put them right back in and ignored the 'accidental omission'...
Similarly we had a GURPS phase, as well as Vampire/Werewolf, and a few other systems and I have to say Pathfinder is pretty good.
Stick with it and you should find it fairly rewarding.
I do miss 1st ed though...
Are there any pictures anywhere?
We just put them right back in and ignored the 'accidental omission'...
A healthy attitude, but I was far more disgusted than that.
Admittedly, the point was a bit of a sore spot for me, since I had been living through the anti-D&D hysteria for several years by that point (and was pretty much the perfect age to be vulnerable to it). The idea of making concessions to that crowd infuriated me.
... I have to say Pathfinder is pretty good.
Stick with it and you should find it fairly rewarding.
Thanks for the encouragement. I like what I see so far. Here's hoping!
I do miss 1st ed though...
As do I.
Still, I like the feel of both Pathfinder and Paizo, and there is plenty of room on my shelves for my classic D&D and AD&D books plus new products in the Pathfinder line. ("Something old, something new..." as the saying goes....)
Are there any pictures anywhere?
Check out the Beginner Box preview video here:
http://www.youtube.com/user/PaizoPublishing
The figures are at about 8:15, although the whole video is worth checking out if you're at all interested in the box set.
That new boxed set just gives me nostalgia.
There's one going under the Xmas tree for my kid.
+1, I would like to have multiples of some monsters though, savage humanoids, undead and others are more likely to appear in numbers, so I guess I would be interested in themed pawn sets as well.
Releasing Pawns could effect Miniature sales - I can't see it happening, at least not now, the timing is all wrong.
I also would like to see pawns sold separately, as I would grab them in a heartbeat!!
+1
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Personally I prefer the tokens, because I can make my own. I might be able to fab the pawns, but I'd have to find a source for the plastic bases.
The Beginner Box comes with 20 bases and you can take the cardboard pawns out and replace them. Unless you're planning some mega battles, 20 should be enough.
You'll have to assemble them yourself, but there are Paper Minis available here.
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Personally I prefer the tokens, because I can make my own. I might be able to fab the pawns, but I'd have to find a source for the plastic bases.The Beginner Box comes with 20 bases and you can take the cardboard pawns out and replace them. Unless you're planning some mega battles, 20 should be enough.
That's certainly valid, but with the tokens it isn't even an issue, period. Further I'd need to get the thickness right, and I sort of doubt I can pull that off. Think about it - how do I get a material thick enough for the task that doesn't need to be die-cut? Tin snips? How's THAT going to look?
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That's certainly valid, but with the tokens it isn't even an issue, period. Further I'd need to get the thickness right, and I sort of doubt I can pull that off. Think about it - how do I get a material thick enough for the task that doesn't need to be die-cut? Tin snips? How's THAT going to look?Personally I prefer the tokens, because I can make my own. I might be able to fab the pawns, but I'd have to find a source for the plastic bases.The Beginner Box comes with 20 bases and you can take the cardboard pawns out and replace them. Unless you're planning some mega battles, 20 should be enough.
+1
Couldn't agree more. The thickness of these, not to mention the art is why I am highly interested in having this. You are right, material thick enough would have to be die-cut.
Bel.
Unlike many other, the stand up pawns are literally the only reason that I'm going to buy the Beginner Box. Unless my little bro happens to get interested in the game one day.
I remember that my first experience with tabletops was just over two years ago, with the 4e Red Box. I still make common use of the tokens from that box set for my PF games - small, light, and they depict the creatures' artwork. Though admittedly, I usually just grab a handful and identify them by number.
If Paizo ever made something akin to WotC's Monster Vault, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Not holding my breath though.
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My only complaint with the Beginner Box figures is that they aren't two-sided.
I agree with this: I'd love to have two-sided figures, not for facing (which, as others have pointed out, isn't an issue in Pathfinder), but just so that everyone can see what's on the figure without needing to turn it. Battlemaps are usually in the middle of the table, so one-sided figures mean someone will be looking at a blank side; that'll make it harder to tell who's a PC and who's an opponent or NPC.
Having the same art on both sides would be fine for me. This would definitely increase the odds of my buying separately-sold sets of figures (which I think are a brilliant idea).
The Beginner Box pawns are printed on both sides. The same image is used for each side.
Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true.
But, seriously, that is good to know! :-)
I agree with this: I'd love to have two-sided figures, not for facing (which, as others have pointed out, isn't an issue in Pathfinder), but just so that everyone can see what's on the figure without needing to turn it. Battlemaps are usually in the middle of the table, so one-sided figures mean someone will be looking at a blank side; that'll make it harder to tell who's a PC and who's an opponent or NPC.
As Gary said, the pawns have art on both sides. Gray Tiger wanted different art on each side so you could tell the figure's front from the back, but that's not necessary in the Pathfinder RPG. :)
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Personally I prefer the tokens, because I can make my own. I might be able to fab the pawns, but I'd have to find a source for the plastic bases.
Here's how I'm making my own cardboard figures very similar to what is in the Beginner Box.
Buy some white 3mm craft foam from Hobby Lobby or a similar craft store (I bought a 12" x 18" 3mm sheet of craft foam, called ‘Funky Foam’ from Hobby Lobby; it costs $0.99). It seems like it will be floppy, but don’t worry, it will be stiff like cardboard or balsa wood by the end after you glue on the paper.
Then, find monsters of your choosing (either online, or you can do a printscreen from a PDF and edit out any stray text or colors) and resize to fit the pawn / figure flat size you want. Make two copies of the image. Image tip: Make it 200 or 300 DPI (dots per inch); this is important if you are doing a screenshot which by default is 72 DPI and may look pixelated when you print).
Finally, print out the monster and cut it out to the size pawn you want. Glue (I use rubber cement, but any kind should do) one monster piece of paper to one size of the craft foam. Cut out the craft foam using the paper pawn as a guide. Then flip it over and paste the other monster paper to the reverse.
Finally, once dry (rubber cement dries in only a few seconds, one reason I like it) you can insert it into these bases from Fantasy Flight:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=1400
I actually bought mine here:
http://www.ccgarmory.com/bogaacplst.html
$2.00 for 10 stands. I spent $10 and got 50 of them. Enough for a small army battle!
With a little bit of time in Gimp or Photoshop, and some cutting and pasting, you can crank out very cheap figure flats / pawns similar to what is in the Beginner Box (better, if you want an image on the rear).
Follow my blog at www.rpghacker.com as I will put up a more detailed tutorial on all this when I have time, including (I hope) some templates for the pawns.
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A friend and I were discussing minis the other day and agreed having a set of miniatures or even just a paper mini insert included with Pathfinder Adventure Paths or Modules would be a boffo idea; especially for any new or unique creatures or NPCs featured in the product.
I like to use minis in my game that are as close in appearance to what my PCs are facing and this would allow me to have something like, say, The Grim White Stag on the table without having to resort to a plush reindeer toy standing on a coffee can lid (obviously, larger creatures could just be big tile rather than a standing figure.)
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No worries, Trystero... there's a lot of information out there in various threads, you can't be expected to track down all of it before posting a perfectly reasonable question. :)
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I was just looking at my BB and the pawns are the best thing about it. I'd certainly buy more if they were made (sub to them, even) and I'd love for them to have a different back and front just because it looks better (and I'd also use them in other games, like C&C; they look like a great game aid in general).
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Finally, print out the monster and cut it out to the size pawn you want. Glue (I use rubber cement, but any kind should do) one monster piece of paper to one size of the craft foam. Cut out the craft foam using the paper pawn as a guide. Then flip it over and paste the other monster paper to the reverse.
I'm assuming you mean cut by hand. Would it surprise you to learn that, being left handed, my scissors-skills aren't craft-worthy?
To do tokens, I use a 1"/2" circular punch... Line up and squeeze.
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Finally, print out the monster and cut it out to the size pawn you want. Glue (I use rubber cement, but any kind should do) one monster piece of paper to one size of the craft foam. Cut out the craft foam using the paper pawn as a guide. Then flip it over and paste the other monster paper to the reverse.
I'm assuming you mean cut by hand. Would it surprise you to learn that, being left handed, my scissors-skills aren't craft-worthy?
Yep. What I've been doing is paste the paper on one side of the foam, then use that as a template to cut it out with sharp scissors, then past the paper on the rear, then trim the paper.
I'm thinking of making a template out of plastic card and using an exacto knife on a cutting mat. If I have success with that I'll report it on www.rpghacker.com and here (if I remember!) :-).
I must say that I could totally see pawn tokens as a part of the GameMastery line. You're already printing decks for stuff like critical hits or fumbles or items. Have packs of bases and packs with new sheets with all sorts of critters. Hero pack, villain pack, demon pack, wolf pack (heh heh heh).
I'd say it can't hurt to at least think about it.
The point certainly explains why the figures have no backs, since it means Pathfinder players would have no need of them. (Of course, I suspect that cardboard figure sets would have a little wider market appeal if they had backs as well as fronts. Merely a thought....)
One problem with this is that it would be quite expensive for Paizo.
They needed no (or almost no) art budget for these pawns because they have lots of art from all their books. However, that art is always one-sided. "Portrait" pictures are almost always full frontal, and even action shots are only shown from one angle.
If they wanted to put front and back pictures on those pawns (without cheaping out by having only a silhouette for the back picture or something), they'd need completely new art, and art costs money.
If they wanted to put front and back pictures on those pawns (without cheaping out by having only a silhouette for the back picture or something), they'd need completely new art, and art costs money.
One thing they could do, as a simple and slightly less elegant solution than a fully-illustrated backside facing away from the viewer, would be to simply flip the image then turn it black. I did this when I made some pirate cardboard minis a few years ago. It worked for the time being, but I never liked it as much, and it certainly didn't look as nice.
To my mind, an identical image flipped works the best because everyone can clearly see who it is, plus then Paizo doesn't have to commission its artists to render two versions of each monster or character, nor ask the artists of already-existing work to go back and make another version.
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I would also love to buy these. I don't (and by choice won't) have a minis budget. There is always someone with a solid minis stock and none of us care to drop tons of cash on making sure we have minis to match an AP or module.
But I have dropped cash on paper minis. I like having the "right" monster. I like being able to show off AP art without having to make a crappy home printer version or try to cover parts of the magazine PCs cannot see. I like not having a 20 lb pile of plastic. Paper minis are so much easier to sort.
I have considered buying the beginner box (which I have no need for other than these) and the WotC sets. But I would love to be able to buy high quality paper minis and I would LOVE if they came out alongside APs. For me, those would be a great subscription product.
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What we're calling 'pawns' or more commonly known as figure flats. Here's some examples of them:
http://www.pigames.net/store/default.php?cPath=27
http://tartex.blogspot.com/2009/04/free-paper-miniatures-flat-figures.html
What is usually done is that the rear side is just a mirror image of the front side -- both sides only show the front of the character. You only see one side at a time so the effect works OK at the table.
I'd pay $ if Paizo would produce PDFs of these figure flats, with instructions on how to create your own do it yourself figure flats. That's what these other figure flat vendors do.
Even better would be to have them as cardboard punchout packs as was suggested above.
I must say that I could totally see pawn tokens as a part of the GameMastery line. You're already printing decks for stuff like critical hits or fumbles or items. Have packs of bases and packs with new sheets with all sorts of critters. Hero pack, villain pack, demon pack, wolf pack (heh heh heh).
I'd say it can't hurt to at least think about it.
Yeah...I'd +1 that a few times...
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A friend and I were discussing minis the other day and agreed having a set of miniatures or even just a paper mini insert included with Pathfinder Adventure Paths or Modules would be a boffo idea; especially for any new or unique creatures or NPCs featured in the product.
They already have that with the Pathfinder Paper Minis line...all of ROTR, most of Kingmaker, and a good start at SS and LOF...
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They already have that with the Pathfinder Paper Minis line...all of ROTR, most of Kingmaker, and a good start at SS and LOF...
I've seen those and they're great. What I'm talking about would be to take those and stick them into the Adventure Path, Module or Bestiary itself as a perforated page at the back of the book you could snap out and use on the spot. I can see how this might raise costs though so I wouldn't be surprised if something like this is never implemented. I can make do with my old Fiery Dragon tokens and homemade minis and tiles.