Let's say I'm using the Community Use Policy to create a campaign setting. If I mention that, in the country covered by this setting, marijuana is used somewhat commonly alongside tobacco and alcohol, am I violating the CUP provision against adult content? I'm not actually introducing rules for what happens when you use pot, I'm just mentioning that it's use is both somewhat common and legal.
I don't see how mentioning its use (in a fantasy setting) is any more of a violation than mentioning the use of alcohol would be. Didn't Gandalf smoke pipe weed or some such?
I always thought that was tobacco or something.
What worries me is that marijuana is illegal in the US and Canada, which might make it's mention adult content, which is verboten.
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Duuuuuude!
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Well seeing as there are rule for drugs within Pathfinder and a whole country on Golarion that makes a whole pile of money off the drugs trade (to the extent that the name of the drug is mentioned in the name of the country) I think you would be fine doing it.
To be on the safe side I would not mention a real drug. Just make it a fictional drug like pesh which has a similar effect to marijuana.
(Or so I'm told...)
Mentioning it's existance, probably not. Advocating it's use, definitely. We'll find out shorly if his thread gets shut down.
Duuuuuude!
That made me giggle.
Mentioning it's existance, probably not. Advocating it's use, definitely. We'll find out shorly if his thread gets shut down.
That's why I'm not creating rules for it's use. I don't want to get it from Paizo for advocating the use of things illegal in the US. I wanted to mention that it's legal, and leave it at that. If a GM wants rules for it, s/he'll have to write them.
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Duuuuuude!
1983 called. They want their word back. ;)
As for mentioning illegal stuff being verboten, last I checked, walking into peoples' houses, killing them, and taking their stuff is illegal in US and Canada, too, but adventurers do it all the time. I understand adult content to relate more to glorification of drug use, glorifying egregious violence, and explicit sexuality. That said, I can't get to the CUP right now to confirm it's language. Think content that would generate an X or NC 17 rating. Whether an R rating is off limits, I'm unclear. Mere mention of legal drug use would be a PG 13 rating. Delving into it on detail in a movie would garner an R rating.
Edit: As for pipe weed, JRRT was an tobacco pipe smoker. If I remember correctly, pipe smoking is often presented as a symbol of home, comfort, and normalcy.
Thanks for the advice. I'm Pathfinderizing my beloved homeland (If you haven't figured out what land that may be by the time you read this alias's username, I don't know what to say), and I don't want to take MJ out of the equation.
Oh, and when I say Pathfinderize, I mean create a medieval fantasy version, not an exact duplicate. That's why I decreed that MJ isn't a crime, despite the fact that it is IRL.
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Quite frankly, I think it's more immersive if you use drug names that aren't tied to modern Earth.+1.
is fantasy, put it a fantasy name
Yes, like mead and ale.
You mean swamp weed?
You mean swamp weed?
I don't think cannabis plants would do well in a swamp environment. Too little soil, too much water.
Just call it fayleaf.
On another note, opium abuse is a major problem in this Pathfinderized California. It's not legal, but it's as big in the entertainment scene here as cocaine is in real life.
I'll explain this in detail when I progress further with the work. Magic has caused economic conditions far more favorable than in the real medieval era, and that this plus magical means of instant communication has allowed a flourishing entertainment sector to develop. Why is this? I need a Hollywood. You can't have any version of California without the glamor and hidden ugliness of the entertainment industries.
Also, yes, this country has heard of surfing, and yes, it is incredibly popular.
Just call it fayleaf.
That name I like. If I do rename MJ, this is probably what I'll go with.
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Quite frankly, I think it's more immersive if you use drug names that aren't tied to modern Earth.+1.
is fantasy, put it a fantasy name
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You know -- there is a time "to ask questions" -- and a time to exercise some common sense. Do you actually have any? Doesn't look like it to me.
Dude, seriously. WHAT do you expect Paizo to say in answer to your "question"? Can't you just think this through for a minute on your own?
No matter WHAT they say, it will be the wrong answer. The only winning move here is not to play.
So how about you never asked the question in the first place. What happens then? Did you stop to think that through as well?
What, EXACTLY, happens if you just go ahead and do whatever it is that you want to do concerning this issue. Do THE POLICE show up at your door for a violation of some "Community Use Policy" violation?
No. They don't. Never.
So what's the worst thing that happens? The worst thing that happens it that Paizo will send you a cease and desist e-mail. Should that come to pass, you then do whatever it is at that point that you decide to do. Until that time concerning matters like this, you just go ahead and exercise some common sense.
Chances of that cease and desist e-mail arriving as a result of mentioning marijuana in you online blog within your game world? Before you asked the question? 0.00%.
Seriously -- these sorts of questions are so frustrating. The OP does not stop and think for one single moment about what the consequence of not asking the question in the first place is, nor do he seem to stop and consider what the possible answers to the question (which should never have been asked in the first place) might be and what those implications might mean for Paizo.
Think this stuff through first man. Really.
I don't see how mentioning its use (in a fantasy setting) is any more of a violation than mentioning the use of alcohol would be. Didn't Gandalf smoke pipe weed or some such?I always thought that was tobacco or something.
It was indeed tobacco. Many MJ users in the sixties and early seventies, up to his death, wrote to Tolkien asking him if the "leaf" mentioned was Mary-Jane. I have a book here somewhere with an interview, where Tolkien said that he had never even thought of that until these younger readers brought it up.
A rather huge clue that it was tobacco was the name of one the brands mentioned in the books: "Old Toby." "Toby" is short for "tobacco." Since all of the "leaf" is described together, and some of it is called "Toby," you can be pretty sure Tolkien was being truthful about what Gandalf was smoking.
You know -- there is a time "to ask questions" -- and a time to exercise some common sense. Do you actually have any? Doesn't look like it to me.
Dude, seriously. WHAT do you expect Paizo to say in answer to your "question"? Can't you just think this through for a minute on your own?
No matter WHAT they say, it will be the wrong answer. The only winning move here is not to play.
So how about you never asked the question in the first place. What happens then? Did you stop to think that through as well?
What, EXACTLY, happens if you just go ahead and do whatever it is that you want to do concerning this issue. Do THE POLICE show up at your door for a violation of some "Community Use Policy" violation?
No. They don't. Never.
So what's the worst thing that happens? The worst thing that happens it that Paizo will send you a cease and desist e-mail. Should that come to pass, you then do whatever it is at that point that you decide to do. Until that time concerning matters like this, you just go ahead and exercise some common sense.
Chances of that cease and desist e-mail arriving as a result of mentioning marijuana in you online blog within your game world? Before you asked the question? 0.00%.
Seriously -- these sorts of questions are so frustrating. The OP does not stop and think for one single moment about what the consequence of not asking the question in the first place is, nor do he seem to stop and consider what the possible answers to the question (which should never have been asked in the first place) might be and what those implications might mean for Paizo.
Think this stuff through first man. Really.
Agree 100% with you.
By the way, when the next episode will come out?
I don't see how mentioning its use (in a fantasy setting) is any more of a violation than mentioning the use of alcohol would be. Didn't Gandalf smoke pipe weed or some such?I always thought that was tobacco or something.
It was indeed tobacco. Many MJ users in the sixties and early seventies, up to his death, wrote to Tolkien asking him if the "leaf" mentioned was Mary-Jane. I have a book here somewhere with an interview, where Tolkien said that he had never even thought of that until these younger readers brought it up.
A rather huge clue that it was tobacco was the name of one the brands mentioned in the books: "Old Toby." "Toby" is short for "tobacco." Since all of the "leaf" is described together, and some of it is called "Toby," you can be pretty sure Tolkien was being truthful about what Gandalf was smoking.
You are right , and the confusion grew when Peter Jackson did an irony in the first movie. ( When Gandal met Saruman).
I like to think that Pathfinder is inspired by a caliber of fantasy fiction that doesn't simply white-wash vices out of existence.
They certainly don't tiptoe around drug use, look at the Katapesh book for example. Then again, what Paizo does and what they allow others to do with their license are separate issues (as they ought to be).
I think if you treat it as a realistic part of the setting, and you don't go overboard by including The ALterEd sTatE of DrUgaChusSetTs as a nation in your setting, they're unlikely to "bust" you for it.
I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't even closely read the CUP, so don't listen to me.
But "stay classy" should be the whole of that law...
Why is it even worth mentioning anyway? Who cares?
Seriously, if I were a PC in such a campaign, that's possibly the last thing about which I'd give a hump.
I don't know maybe if the PC's are smugglers or something, but otherwise...why make an issue of it?
Chief Technical Officer
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Let's say I'm using the Community Use Policy to create a campaign setting. If I mention that, in the country covered by this setting, marijuana is used somewhat commonly alongside tobacco and alcohol, am I violating the CUP provision against adult content? I'm not actually introducing rules for what happens when you use pot, I'm just mentioning that it's use is both somewhat common and legal.
The answer to that would depend on the specific usage and context.
The exact wording in the Community Use Policy is:
You agree to not use this permission for material that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors...
So, is your particular usage something that you think the general public might classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors?
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Chief Technical Officer
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Also, since you're creating your own campaign setting, are you sure it's really the Community Use Policy you're looking for? In the context you're talking about, the CUP mainly provides access to parts of our setting, which you generally wouldn't use in your *own* setting. I think you may want the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License instead. (Which, I'll note, has pretty much the same "adult content" clause.)
Also, since you're creating your own campaign setting, are you sure it's really the Community Use Policy you're looking for? In the context you're talking about, the CUP mainly provides access to parts of our setting, which you generally wouldn't use in your *own* setting. I think you may want the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License instead. (Which, I'll note, has pretty much the same "adult content" clause.)
That's a commercial license, and I don't plan to charge for my work. That's why I chose to use the CUP. Also, this thread has made this question moot, as I decided to work on Hearts of Oak (Like Stormwrack, but with what I think a sailing rulebook should have.) and Sylvan Glory (Libris Mortis/Draconimicon, but for Fey) instead of a campaign setting.
You mean swamp weed?
Gothic reference? Kudos.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Also, since you're creating your own campaign setting, are you sure it's really the Community Use Policy you're looking for? In the context you're talking about, the CUP mainly provides access to parts of our setting, which you generally wouldn't use in your *own* setting. I think you may want the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License instead. (Which, I'll note, has pretty much the same "adult content" clause.)That's a commercial license, and I don't plan to charge for my work. That's why I chose to use the CUP.
The Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License applies to both commercial and non-commercial users. It lets you use the Pathfinder Compatibility Logo (the CUP does not), and with respect to either of your projects, I think that might really be what you're looking for.
The Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License applies to both commercial and non-commercial users. It lets you use the Pathfinder Compatibility Logo (the CUP does not), and with respect to either of your projects, I think that might really be what you're looking for.Also, since you're creating your own campaign setting, are you sure it's really the Community Use Policy you're looking for? In the context you're talking about, the CUP mainly provides access to parts of our setting, which you generally wouldn't use in your *own* setting. I think you may want the Pathfinder RPG Compatibility License instead. (Which, I'll note, has pretty much the same "adult content" clause.)That's a commercial license, and I don't plan to charge for my work. That's why I chose to use the CUP.
Thanks. I'll think about getting one.
I´m not sure, but I think ´marijuana´ exists as such IN GOLARION itself...
Beyond that, I would question why it should be classified as ´adult content´.
In the US, marijuana is equally illegal for adults and children.
Mentioning it´s existence is therefore not especially ´adult´.
I beleive there are ADDITIONAL laws against providing drugs to children, but those same laws prevent providing ALCOHOL and TOBACCO to children... I don´t think those laws would mean you can´t mention alcohol or tobacco in your game-world.
You could PERHAPS view explicitly mentioning providing alcohol, tobacco, AND marijuana to minors as being verboten ´adult content´, but I wouldn´t agree... That is simply a crime under US statute, not ´adult content´ (appropriate for adults but not children) per se. Murder is also a crime for both adults and children, but mentioning murder shouldn´t be against Paizo´s licence policy. Paizo doesn´t say you fantasy worlds have to conform to US statute in all ways... Further who is to say that ´minor´ has the same definition in your game world, or even exists as a legal concept? Further, imagine a REAL WORLD country where pot is fully legal as you imagine it in your game world: is mentioning this fact about this country ´adult content´ that can´t be expressed openly to children? No, that´s Orwellian nonsense. Mentioning that X country has different laws re: WHATEVER isn´t itself adult content, it´s basic facts that belong in an encyclopedia.
I think Paizo is pretty much talking about explicit sexual content when they say adult content.
i.e. they don´t want you publicly distributing content including Golarion stuff that goes beyond a ´R´ rating.
In any case, it sounds like you´re working on a world setting product. Even if you use PRPG rules-relevant statistics in some parts of this product (it sounds like you´re not doing so re: pot) that doesn´t mean you actually have to mention PRPG, Pathfinder, or use any of the product trademarks... Which means you have no need to use the Pathfinder game licence (game mechanics aren´t protected per se, so you can be fully compatible with PRPG without using a licence... as long as you don´t use their trademarks) . And as mentioned, the other CUP is for GOLARION WORLD content which you obviously also don´t need. I would guess you don´t need to worry about any licence requirements whatsoever.
Explains why Lizardfolk are Neutral... cannabis communes are a rather peaceful sort. ;-)You mean swamp weed?I don't think cannabis plants would do well in a swamp environment. Too little soil, too much water.
Hey man.
That'sssss like, sssstereotyping, man.
Wow! How did I miss this thread?
"Does mentioning marijuana violate the community use policy?"
Man, I hope not.
[bubble bubble bubble]
Flayleaf gives you a pretty good buzz, but if you really want to chase the dragon, plane jump over to Scarn and see if you can score some julka.
[bubble bubble bubble]
+100 for Mister Show
What was the question again?
I think marijuana in Pathfinder is sort of like women's nipples in Pathfinder--assumed to be there but seldom mentioned and never depicted in artwork due to US laws and politics.
Do women in Golarion have nipples? Well, I'm currently reading an advance copy of Death's Heretic I picked up at World Fantasy (signed by The Sutter himself, naturally) and can report that gnome women at least do, since there's specific mention of one who has some, and moreover they're the same shade as her purple hair.
Do I expect to see them in artwork? No, just the same as I don't expect to see illustrations of gnomish concubines relaxing in flayleaf patch enjoying a smoke while those with easy Knowledge Nature checks look at the leaf shapes and decide whether "flayleaf" is renamed cannabis or else is some intoxicating variety of salad burnet.
I'm also pretty sure that if you drew a naked gnome woman frolicking through a cannabis patch, someone somewhere would classify this as "adult."
