So, I guess I need to vent.
My last session running ROTRL went pretty well. That would be minus my players surfing CNN, grading papers, and sleeping... Oh and one of them said if I needed to kill a character to go ahead and kill his because he isn't really all that attached to it.
No one else in my group is willing to run so they are stuck with me doing it. I am not a terrible GM, but they certainly aren't helping. I don't GM for my health, I GM so we can play. I would rather be on the other side of the table.
I am starting to introduce individual character stories so maybe next week will be better?
I did switch over from a self made champain to ROTRL and thank all that is holy I did!
Anyways, sorry to complain but I needed to get it off my chest.
Trying to get the glow,
TSH
When my inspiration is lacking and I'm losing my players, I tend to throw in quirky stuff, improvise things not in the rules at all but sound like fun. I threw in a store that sold magic carpets once (with the deluxe model having the option - for more gold of course - to be flameproof with a heavy crossbow mounted on the back). None of this had anything to do with the adventure, and the PC's at that point already had a few (short term) means of flying. But it got them very involved, talking to each other about how large a carpet to buy and whether or not to get it fireproofed. One of the more practical, min-maxing characters thought it was a waste and refused to contribute (a point not forgotten by the players to this day). It was fun, it got them off their Blackberries, and it got things moving again.
Are fireproofed magic carpets that somehow unfold with a crossbow mounted on them in the rules? No. But this is fantasy. Anything possible, spark the imagination, that kinda s*%4. It works for me, anyway. I get stifled sometimes by the rules. Don't get me wrong, the game needs a framework, but sometimes it needs a departure, too.
This may not seem feasible in a planned adventure path, but maybe you're feeling too straightjacketed by the way the adventure is supposed to go. Players aren't the only ones allowed to go off the rails for a while.
Similar to Gillman, I find it sometimes helps to put odd magic items in the game. Mine are usually one time, charged items (that can't be recharged), or breakable so that if the power is way off it won't break the game for long.
Some examples are:
1) A handfull of xbow bolts that splinter into a cloud of tiny needles when fired. Everyone in a 30'x60' cone gets hit by 3d3 needles that do 1 point of damage each.
2) A potion that does 2 spells at once but has a 25% chance to make you nauseated instead.
3) A potion that gives a +6 on str and con. But every round after the 1st one physical ability (str, dex, or con) rolled randomly will lose 1 point for the next 20 rounds.
4) A enchanted primitive weapon like a stone axe. It would have a -2 on to hit because it is stone, but it's got a +2 enchantment. Effectively a +0 to hit and +2 to damage. and it still passes damage reduction. Not really better than a +1 axe but it is unique.
5) A +3 solid crystal shield (I gave it some other abilities that I don't remember). But every time a strike from a heavy weapon (GM's call) is blocked by it there is a 2% chance it will shatter.
6) Buff/cure arrows.
It's fun watching them try to make use of some of the bizzare ones.
The other thing you can give out is non-necessary luxury magic items.
A) Sleeping bag that dries out and warms up on command.
B) Smoke-less lantern.
C) Candles that don't flicker (stable reading light).
d) Self cleaning clothes.
E) Eating utensil and dish cabinet that cleans the items magically (dishwasher).
F) Tiny Automaton that slowly walks a set path (3 hours work to set up a new path) firing an incredibly weak burning hands every few rounds (automatic lawn mower).
No effect at all on power balance, but kinda fun flavor.
It really is harder in these days of "continuous electronic contact" to keep players focused on the game. You may want to attach your TV, DVD player and video games to a powerstrip and turn it off before games. Ask your players to silence their cell-phones and other personal electronics. Don't be self-conscious about it (every movie theater and college professor in America has been reduced to making the same request), and allow a certain amount of flexibility (such as a cell-phone that's expecting a call from a hospital.) Remind them that they came here to game & their darling BlackBerry will still be there when the session's over.
The trick here is in flavor text. RotRL is a good solid AP with fairly well-written text (I was quite impressed when I bought #1: they'd brought their 'A game' over from working on Dungeon) but don't be afraid to stretch beyond the established text. I particularly recommend that you start out area descriptions with what it smells like, then what the PCs hear, and put visuals last. The inverse order of information sometimes leads players to pay more attention - I don't know why.
All great suggestions. Eliminate distractions. Also try running a shorter session but where lots of things happen. Ensure that everyone is paying attention before giving descriptions. Keep descriptions short with one or two items of interest. Have some bad guys launch a vendetta against the players. Make it personal. Try to get at least a couple players interested in the game to help bring the others around. Do plenty of off-the-rails play for players to explore what they can accomplish.
At the end of the day though, you may need to get some new players that are more interested in the hobby.
I have to say at first I wasn't much for adding some shinny things for them to play with as these guys are more of a story/character driven group and might see it as a ploy. But some of the ideas are pretty fantastic. Heal/cure arrows are pretty sweet, I like the dishwasher, sleeping bag, the crytal shield is nice too.
I do have some personal things coming up. I need to draft them up and make them more presentable and through them in the game. I think I can certainly salvage the game, it was just discouraging last night. I don't know if they read these forums so I don't want to get into details, but I think they are neat ideas. I need to keep hold of the leash so I don't let it get to out of control and get ahead of myself.
I will also work on the discription stuff too as suggested, I am very aware of this and try every game to get better at.
Thanks for your thoughts!
TSH
... Heal/cure arrows are pretty sweet ...
Pretty much just a spell storing arrow that comes precharged with benificial spells - buffs or heals.
It was pretty funny watching the archer give his ship captain a shield of faith and d8 damage at the same time (hoping and praying that he would NOT roll a crit).
I beat it was funny, better hope you don't roll too well!
My group is finishing up Burnt Offerings and just killed Barthmus. He has 4 +1 elf bane arrows which might just have to be Arrows of DM Fun. I could be nice and have a couple with blunted tips, like you use is virtual archery ranges these days. But I think damaging your allies to give him a bonus makes it way more interesting, it forces the player to think and not to shoot willy nilly.
TSH
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I particularly recommend that you start out area descriptions with what it smells like, then what the PCs hear, and put visuals last. The inverse order of information sometimes leads players to pay more attention - I don't know why.
This is a good point. For setting a mood scent is hugely important and people rely on it far more than they think. Temperature is also nice to include.
Now I have to go back and see how I write these things...
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As for the original post... are your players really interested in gaming?
If they are then an electronics ban should be workable. If they aren't willing to do an electronics ban then maybe your players just want to hang out and you should try a game that requires less engagement.
Maybe try a one off with We Be Goblins...
Scent and temperature are very important, any sort of tactile description is a great idea. I do include such things when I remember to do so and when I do there is a difference in player reaction.
Yes, I believe my players are interested in gaming. The group has been together for a long time, some of us way longer then others and have a passion for the game (2ed, 3.5 and now Pathfiner). No one wants to GM though, so I figured to I would step up and bite the bullet as not playing at all sucks more then running the game. I am hoping when I get better at running it will help resolve the issue. Practice makes perfect.
Speaking to the elctronics issue, phones aren't a problem (heck, one of the guys doesn't believe in cell phones) they are on vibrate or ingnored unless it is a work page, etc. We, for the most part, have gone digital. Laptops are out for reference, it is a hazard of the digital age. This is a double edge sword for sure. I will mention this and let them know it is un-nerving to me when they are off in their own little worlds looking up spells for the mage they haven't played yet or reading about under valued Chinese currency.
TSH
I would try to step up the role playing aspect of the game. Interpersonal communication and interaction may tend to draw them away from the inanimate objects whether they be papers, laptops, etc.
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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Speaking to the elctronics issue, phones aren't a problem (heck, one of the guys doesn't believe in cell phones) they are on vibrate or ingnored unless it is a work page, etc. We, for the most part, have gone digital. Laptops are out for reference, it is a hazard of the digital age. This is a double edge sword for sure. I will mention this and let them know it is un-nerving to me when they are off in their own little worlds looking up spells for the mage they haven't played yet or reading about under valued Chinese currency.
Our group doesn't really have a similar issue, people on laptops are engaged. But what we do have which seems to work well is one PC in the corner of the room which people can use to look up salient stuff. Maybe keep just one laptop for convenience and ditch the rest?
When my inspiration is lacking and I'm losing my players, I tend to throw in quirky stuff, improvise things not in the rules at all but sound like fun. I threw in a store that sold magic carpets once (with the deluxe model having the option - for more gold of course - to be flameproof with a heavy crossbow mounted on the back). None of this had anything to do with the adventure, and the PC's at that point already had a few (short term) means of flying. But it got them very involved, talking to each other about how large a carpet to buy and whether or not to get it fireproofed. One of the more practical, min-maxing characters thought it was a waste and refused to contribute (a point not forgotten by the players to this day). It was fun, it got them off their Blackberries, and it got things moving again.
Are fireproofed magic carpets that somehow unfold with a crossbow mounted on them in the rules? No. But this is fantasy. Anything possible, spark the imagination, that kinda s*%4. It works for me, anyway. I get stifled sometimes by the rules. Don't get me wrong, the game needs a framework, but sometimes it needs a departure, too.
This may not seem feasible in a planned adventure path, but maybe you're feeling too straightjacketed by the way the adventure is supposed to go. Players aren't the only ones allowed to go off the rails for a while.
This is the kind of stuff I love to throw at those kind of players: they hate non-combat encounters and being forced to roleplay.
My group (In which I recently ran a two-ear campaign, we've had other GMs, and I'm not the one GMing the new campaign) recently banned laptops at the gaming table. We also don't have non-game books at the gaming table. By they way, the word "table" is important here. Being at at a table helps focus players on the game.
We usually play in my living room where I have a desktop PC, on which I keep various game resources open for general use.
Your players are being unforgivably rude.
You have to put your foot down about the TV. And, as a teacher, the idea that a fellow teacher would be so rude as to grade papers at the table is beyond my belief. Would s/he put up with such multi-tasking from students in the classroom? No. Don't let this person get away with that again.
If they keep doing it, they don't want to play. Call their bluff.
Your players are being unforgivably rude.
You have to put your foot down about the TV. And, as a teacher, the idea that a fellow teacher would be so rude as to grade papers at the table is beyond my belief. Would s/he put up with such multi-tasking from students in the classroom? No. Don't let this person get away with that again.
If they keep doing it, they don't want to play. Call their bluff.
I am trying to remain calm about it but I am actually kind of pissed off about it. I send out an email with their experience reward for the evening. I did address the above issue in it but I did not include the blurb in the final draft as I felt it to be passive agressive, better to speak face to face about it. Rest assured it will be spoken of our next meeting.
To clairify a bit, there was never any tv watching. I would start throwing pens and miniatures at them if that was the case!
TSH
Are the players using wifi at your house because then you might be able to unplug the router. if they are using intenet from a cell phone tower you can't really do that.
I think you need some new ground rules, and I have a suggestion on how to introduce the "new rules" without sounding aggressive, passively or otherwise.
First, keep these points in mind:
- If everyone pays more attention, the game will move faster.
- If the game moves faster, it's more exciting and holds people's interest.
- If the game moves faster, more gets done in a session, making characters advance faster.
Here's the plan. Plan something a bit special. It doesn't have to be a really big deal, maybe just a BBEG with a good speech prepared and a unique little piece of treasure designed for each PC. Tell the players in advance (by email is fine, but it's important that they know ahead of time that the expectations will be different) that you have something special planned, and that you'd like to try out some floor rules to go with it, to help make sure the group gets through the whole special event in the allotted time.
I think that you and your players will have such a good time that they'll be open to discussing keeping the new rules around.
Are the players using wifi at your house because then you might be able to unplug the router. if they are using intenet from a cell phone tower you can't really do that.
They can use wifi, there are several unprotected wifi conections in my building. I don't have wifi.
@Blueluck
Everyone in my group is 35+, I don't want to have to overtly bribe them. If them want to play then play. I will add some neat trinkets but I don't want to have to ring a bell every time I want them to do something. Oddly enough one of them is a behavioral analyst he might get a chuckle, more likely groan, out if it (and this thread as well).
TSH
I wouldnt be so quick to blame your players. Fact is that they are all there, devoting a significant chunk of free time. I think what you need to ascertain is the expectation gap; there is a disconnect between their expectations, and what you are providing. Chances are that most people are too nice to be vocal about it. So it's best to talk it out, get to know what each player "needs," and tailor your game to meet this, as well as your needs too.
I don't think lack of trinkets is the issue here. I'd also spend some time reading through the Gamemastery Guide, or the related SRD info out there. I still find it a big help in reminding myself of what's important even though i have GM'd for 20 years.
I wouldnt be so quick to blame your players. Fact is that they are all there, devoting a significant chunk of free time. I think what you need to ascertain is the expectation gap; there is a disconnect between their expectations, and what you are providing. Chances are that most people are too nice to be vocal about it. So it's best to talk it out, get to know what each player "needs," and tailor your game to meet this, as well as your needs too.
Yes and yes. I have started trying to place individual plot devices. I replaced Orik with a NPC of my making to help facilitate one of the PC's back story(I will be writing up parts of this NPC's journal for the PC). I just sent off an email to another trying to lock down his back story so I can intigrate it better into the story. I would like to ideally have side quests and plug ins for all the PC's.
I wasn't trying to blame them persay in the original post, just venting my frustration. This game is a two way street. Everyone needs to be involved to make it work. We talk about this out side of game over drinks and email all the time. I try to take those thoughts and ideas and apply them to the game. We are just about to finish up the first chapter of the game, there will be some down time so we can take care of some personal business and get the player's back stories going. These are some of my good friends, I want them to have a good time.
TSH
@Blueluck
Everyone in my group is 35+, I don't want to have to overtly bribe them. If them want to play then play. I will add some neat trinkets but I don't want to have to ring a bell every time I want them to do something. Oddly enough one of them is a behavioral analyst he might get a chuckle, more likely groan, out if it (and this thread as well).
I'm not suggesting that you bribe them with treasure. I'm suggesting that you make a minor special event as the introductory session for any new floor rules. There are two reasons I suggest a special event. First, it's a good way to bring up a request you're making of your players - you're planning something special, as opposed to whining about their behavior. Second, rather than just asking them to change their behavior, you're doing something for them at the same time, planning a special event.
If special treasure would feel like a bribe, don't give any out. Plan whatever kind of special event you think they'll like. Use gladiatorial combat, negotiations with key political or underworld figures, running battles on riverboats, or whatever sounds like fun.
I'm not suggesting that you bribe them with treasure. I'm suggesting that you make a minor special event as the introductory session for any new floor rules. There are two reasons I suggest a special event. First, it's a good way to bring up a request you're making of your players - you're planning something special, as opposed to whining about their behavior. Second, rather than just asking them to change their behavior, you're doing something for them at the same time, planning a special event.
If special treasure would feel like a bribe, don't give any out. Plan whatever kind of special event you think they'll like. Use gladiatorial combat, negotiations with key political or underworld figures, running battles on riverboats, or whatever sounds like fun.
Point taken. Oddly enough, I do have some of this in the works. We are thinking along the same lines it seems! I just can't tell it get out of my control, sometimes I have eyes bigger them my stomach... So to speak.
I appreciate everyone's thoughts on this. It has helped out greatly with generating ideas I can use to better my game running and what I can do with my players. You all have my gratitude.
TSH
Yes and yes. I have started trying to place individual plot devices. I replaced Orik with a NPC of my making to help facilitate one of the PC's back story(I will be writing up parts of this NPC's journal for the PC). I just sent off an email to another trying to lock down his back story so I can intigrate it better into the story. I would like to ideally have side quests and plug ins for all the PC's.
I wasn't trying to blame them persay in the original post, just venting my frustration. This game is a two way street. Everyone needs to be involved to make it work. We talk about this out side of game over drinks and email all the time. I try to take those thoughts and ideas and apply them to the game. We are just about to finish up the first chapter of the game, there will be some down time so we can take care of some personal business and get the player's back stories going. These are some of my good friends, I want them to have a good time.
TSH
I am not talking about plot or NPCs, but what the player needs (vs. the character) from the game. I think it critical to ascertain what each player wants/needs/expects from the game. Here is Robin Laws characteristics of players from DMG II as an example:
He defined those traits as “the particular emotional impulses that give your players a sense of reward”. That’s a definition I like!
•Accumulating Cool powers: Enjoying the acquisition of loot/powers, planning a character many levels in advance.
•Kicking Butt: Enjoying combat for the sake of inflicting mayhem and destruction on foes.
•Brilliant Planning: Enjoying combat for the sake of winning, beating foes with brains and tactics.
•Puzzle Solvers: Resolving riddles, short puzzles or longer investigation type puzzles.
•Playing a favorite role: Seeking the same class/themes/roles campaign after campaign.
•Supercoolness: Being a badass and be able to show it often.
•Story: Seeking the range of emotions that comes from a game’s narrative and non-crunch achievements.
•Psychodrama: Seeking to explore and develop a character from an internal perspective.
•Irresponsibility: Being able to create trouble without having to deal with real-world consequence (ex: jumping off the rails and go wild!)
•Setting Exploration:Seeking new horizons in a setting and learning the lore of in-game objects, locales and events.
•The Outlier: Seeking the emotional kick of subverting a group’s dynamic by creating weird characters or actively seeking failure.
•Lurker: No clear goal or motivation except to show up at the game and participate.
The Game Mastery Guide provides a lot more on this too.