Pseudodragon cohort advanced as summoner?

[Stubs McKenzie]

Am about to start playing a Deaf Oracle (life) in a new campaign, and thought it would be pretty cool to have a pseudodragon cohort at 7 (saw the suggestion on these boards), but was wondering what yall thought about having him gain levels in summoner? At party level 7 he would be a summoner lvl 1 (ECL of 4 for purposes of being a cohort), and im not sure if he can gain class levels up to a maximum of -2 my character's level or if the ECL from picking him as a cohort counts as effective levels for the maximum as well.

If he can gain class levels up to a max of -2 of my own, it would seem a powerful ally to have, especially since his Summon Monster SLA doesn't require a casting stat, and a +6 cha headband would allow him to cast all lvls of summoner spells. Even if I didn't have him summon his Eidolon most of the time, it would still be pretty great.

If he is still limited by his initial ECL, then he will always be 5 class levels below me. If that's the case, is going summoner worth it? Is there a better option (rogue is never an option :P)? Considering Fighter for the survivability, and the extra feats, but would rather not have him in combat directly. Paladin is another possibility if i can weasel out a LG alignment from the DM, as far as survivability and such goes.

Anyway, what do ya'll think?

EDIT: yes, leadership is easily open to abuse, and i usually stay away from it, but as a life oracle i probably won't have a big impact on fights most of the time, will be a buffer and healer, so would like something to do every once in a while :)

[KrispyXIV]

As a general rule for managability, I would totally advise against any situation where a companion character (cohort, eidolon, etc.) has additional cohorts/companions of their own.

If you're looking to mitigate a lack of things to do as a healer character, I'd go with a strong cohort who is a capable contributor on its own; adding further actions on top of that really risks bogging things down.

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Stubs McKenzie wrote:

Am about to start playing a Deaf Oracle (life) in a new campaign, and thought it would be pretty cool to have a pseudodragon cohort at 7 (saw the suggestion on these boards), but was wondering what yall thought about having him gain levels in summoner? ...

Very much dependant on what your GM will allow. He might want you to just advance it as a monster, gaining more HD and eventually size. If he will allow classes, i don't think sommoner will be very useful that many levels behind (but I could be wrong). Monk if you can make him LG would help him survive. Ranger could go with stealth skills and scouting/tracking for you.

[Terran]

Possible a psuedodragon synthesist?

[Dragonborn3]

Terran wrote:

Possible a psuedodragon synthesist?

I was thinking this as well. Could flavor it as summoning the spirit of an ancestor.

[Matthew Morris]

Well it's not the 'Thrallherd daisy chain'...

How many players do you have at the table? It *can* be time consuming with companions of companions. I tied up the table (and switched characters as a mercy) with a Battle Sorcerer, who had a Warforged Shaper cohort (Warforged shapers are awesome) who would spawn Astral Constructs*...

I would say Synthesist above would be your best bet, unless you can move three characters quickly and enough to not deny your fellow players (and GM) their fun.

*

Spoiler:

Yes my Warforged summoned his astral constructs from his chest and talked in a monotone. Why?

[Kydeem de'Morcaine]

Stubs McKenzie wrote:

...since his Summon Monster SLA doesn't require a casting stat, and a +6 cha headband would allow him to cast all lvls of summoner spells ...

I can't imagine gaining levels as a caster who can't cast spells unless he has a magic item all the time. If you pick a wisdom caster, he could at least cast 1st and 2nd level spells until he gains enough levels to get ability increases.

[Stubs McKenzie]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions thus far, I also have been considering the synthesist archetype. As far as bogging down the table, we have a small group that often needs people to play 2 or even 3 pcs some days, so I wouldn't mind running 2 characters. I don't think pseudodragons can advance HD... they don't have a progression anyway (that I saw).

As far as stats, cohorts are usually built using the elite array, not sure if a pseudodragon would be or not... but im not too worried about the casting stat.

Again, I really appreciate the input so far, if anyone has more to add would love to read it. Feel free to bash my line of thinking :P

[Stubs McKenzie]

Wanted to resurrect this thread... my character is now 6th level and I got to thinking about this again. The big question is:

Does ECL 4 when looking at when a cohort can be gained also count towards their total character level for the max he can gain? Is a pseudodragon synthesist 1 advancing as a 7th lvl character, a 5th lvl character or a 3rd lvl (2HD)? If 5th level, does he gain extra levels the way a PC playing a monstrous race with a level adjustment would?

If anyone can help with those questions, or had any other thoughts I would really appreciate it :) Thanks!

[zagnabbit]

I've had a pseudodragon Sorceror at the table as a cohort, it was fine.
I'd personally be Leary of a synthesist or any summoner as a cohort but I understand the potential need in a small group.

If I were to adjudicate this: I'd require the dragon to advance in HD first by at least one level (he's kinda unique so I'd throw this requirement in but I know people would fuss online). Then I'd advance him with the clvl until he hit the cohort level dictated by leadership.

Cohorts get experience in an unusual way. Basically they are always at least 2 levels behind your character. So I think that answers the question. The actual maximum level of the cohort at start is determined by your leadership score.

There is a place in one of the Bestiaries for monster cohorts but it's not much different than the leadership feat entry.

[Stubs McKenzie]

So you would say pseudodragon is effectively lvl 2 when gained because of HD, and therefore could potentially be 3rd lvl class X + 2HD for a total CL 5 max with a PC lvl 7?

Am just a bit confused as to what level the dragon would be considered before class levels are applied.

[Name Violation]

bard is another good option for group buffs

[Stubs McKenzie]

Absolutely, unfortunately one of the big reasons I even considered taking leadership is b/c our group size is small, so group buffs aren't nearly as important.

Though I still considered bard because getting bard buffs through telepathy would be pretty awesome :P Would be like watching a dude on a subway car jamming out to music only he hears :)