I've just begun playing a human guardsman in a CotCT game here on the boards.
Now, as a human fighter with +1 int, I can get 5 skill points a level, which is reasonably solid. However, my skill list is seriously lackluster. I'm aware of the Tactician archetype, but I'm unwilling to give up weapon training and I'd rather avoid any sweeping changes to my build. My character is here. I originally had more well rounded mental stats (because hey, 25 point buy!) but decided to keep shield fighting as an option for later levels.
My plans for the next few levels are weapon focus or cleave at 2nd, persuasive at 3rd and weapon spec after that. What are my other options for expanding that skill list? I'd rather avoid an urban ranger dip, because I'm adamant that by 4th or 5th level I should be competant in a good number of skills. However, despite my decent number of skill points I really need that class skill bonus.
If there's anything I've missed that I can run by my GM before we get into the thick of things, I'm all ears.
My plans for the next few levels are weapon focus or cleave at 2nd, persuasive at 3rd and weapon spec after that. What are my other options for expanding that skill list?
If there's anything I've missed that I can run by my GM before we get into the thick of things, I'm all ears.
I'm also a skill-hungry gamer, so I know your pain.
Now, as a guardsman, you already have some good bases covered. For the future, you may want to consider a rank in Knowledge - Nobility, mainly so you can roll over a 10. Also, perception and sense motive are big for a guardsman.
However, if you're only a guardsman now, but are about to be swept up into high adventure, you may want to abandon all these notions of guard skills, and instead as what you'll be learning through your trials on the road. I'm sure you should be rounded with at least a rank in Swim, Know Engineering, Ride and Survival quite soon.
Cosmopolitan (APG) is worth looking at. Two skills of your choice become class skills and you gain two languages.
Agreed but additional traits (2 fer 1 feat) also does the same and gives +1 to many. Skill points or the lack thereof does hurt.
You can only have one trait of each type, though, so if the game already allows traits and the characters has already taken, say, a social trait and a regional trait, that leaves them with combat/faith/magic/race as choices, categories with generally less desirable class skills, unless this fighter is going for knowledges.
Cosmopolitan can be a good feat to take when you've already got traits, but Extra Traits is probably better if you're not starting with any of them, I agree.
I also played a skilled-ish fighter in a CotCT game, though he had a two-level dip into rogue (the poisoner archetype from APG). He was a kukri dual-wielder with some sweet mithral fullplate. Oh, armour training, how I love you for making that possible.
As it happens I'm also getting ready to run a "smart" fighter in a upcoming PbP. Human with 14 Int and dumping favored class into skills.
While the skill selection is limited you also need to keep in mind those character feats. Most Fighters use those to augment a complex or multiple fighting styles. The trick is to pick one of the simpler more robust but 'dull' styles which can mostly work off just the Fighter feats. This frees the those character feats for things like cosmopolitan, skill focus (which mechanically is like gaining a single class skill, with a bum with 10 ranks).
Open Minded is one feat I had tried to push during the Playtest with an updated look like what they were doing with Toughness. Saddly it didn't make it to Core, and was left to DSP to update in Psioncis Unleashed. It really has little place being cast to the 'nitch' of Psionics.
I am not going that route myself this time as I wanted a Whip Master fighter and am looking at also building off Comabt Expertise. Weapons of choice are flail or related weapons with Trip and Disarm abilities
Current skills are: Climb, Know (dungeon), Know (engi), Handle Animal, Profession (farmer, setting reasons), Survival.
Yuri can: ID some kinds of monsters, feed the party on overland, mange a pack of hunting dogs or message birds, (which can be feed with survival by that level), know where to go "Koolad Man" on interior walls at later levels. Also OotS ran with this in the most recent comic.
*Fistbump*
I love your style! That's a character concept I can totally respect and would love to either GM, have in my party or play.
Thanks, man. You're real kind.
Thanks for the great advice, guys. I'll probably look at the additional traits feat. Courageous is a combat trait, so I can pick up Ease of Faith and Suspicious with no trouble. Once I have a few levels under my belt I can shift my focus to Diplomacy, Sense Motive and other such skills with high DCs and hopefully even out somewhere. Thanks for your contributions. :D
I play a PFS fighter who's a bit of a skill monkey. Check out Corben Senjak in my profile for his build information.
His feats:
Level 0: Traits: Ease of Faith [Diplomacy as Class Skill], Taldoran Fashion Sense [Sense Motive]
Level 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Falcata), Weapon Focus (Falcata), Dazzling Display
Level 2: Intimidating Prowess
Level 3: Persuasive
Level 4: Weapon Specialization (Falcata)
Level 5: Additional Traits (Well Hidden [+1 Will Save, +2 vs Divination]; Anatomist [+1 Confirmation roll on Crits)
Level 6: Blindfighting
Level 7: Iron Will or Lunge.
Level 8: Greater Weapon Focus
Level 9: Critical Mastery
Level 10: Greater Blindfighting
Level 11: Some sort of Critical feat.
Level 12: Greater Weapon Specialization
I take the extra skill point each level.
To be honest an Urban Ranger dip is probably the best way. You will get huge amount of class skills and skill points to put into them. Chose favored enemy human and you get an even higher boost to a lot of important skills. Since the Ranger is also a full BAB you are not giving up a whole lot. You will also get the ability to use some magic item like wands.
|
I've just begun playing a human guardsman in a CotCT game here on the boards.
Now, as a human fighter with +1 int, I can get 5 skill points a level, which is reasonably solid. However, my skill list is seriously lackluster. I'm aware of the Tactician archetype, but I'm unwilling to give up weapon training and I'd rather avoid any sweeping changes to my build. My character is here. I originally had more well rounded mental stats (because hey, 25 point buy!) but decided to keep shield fighting as an option for later levels.
My plans for the next few levels are weapon focus or cleave at 2nd, persuasive at 3rd and weapon spec after that. What are my other options for expanding that skill list? I'd rather avoid an urban ranger dip, because I'm adamant that by 4th or 5th level I should be competant in a good number of skills. However, despite my decent number of skill points I really need that class skill bonus.
If there's anything I've missed that I can run by my GM before we get into the thick of things, I'm all ears.
On a side note, I've been thinking of making the fighter archetype cad as my smart fighter, and just constantly throwing debuffs onto my opponents. The damage output seems okay, since the character can probably get the level 5 ability to happen, and I think the only major issue is lack of medium and heavy armors. If the party has a good rogue, I think this could possibly work.
|
|
Polearm master / tripper is amazing for a 25 point build. I'd go ahead and jack int up to 14 and put favored class to HP.
Str: 18
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Chr: 10 (I am assuming you hate dump stats)
Traits: Horsechopper Heirloom weapon (+2 trip), diplomacy as class skill (or perception if you join Grand Lodge)
Feats:
1 - Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2 - Dodge
3 - Mobility
4 - Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack (lose improved trip)
5 - Improved Trip
6 - Greater Improved Trip
7 - Lunge
8: Power attack
I've touted the advantages here many times, but basically by 8 you attack everyone within 15 feet, trip them (should be about +22 CMB) and AOO them at +2 to hit (Polearm master). +22 = +8 BAB +2 Heirloom +4 feats +6 Str (+2 item) +1 weapon train +1 weapon. +22 takes down most giant types more often than not at that level, and easily trips Mage-types (who don't do so well on that touch attack).
For more fun pick up growth domain from Inquisitor / Cleric at 10 and get 25 feet. Or just have the friendly party Mage enlarge you.
|
Traits: Horsechopper Heirloom weapon (+2 trip)
He was raised by Goblins? :D
Hmm, anyone thought up a decent Tactician yet? The abilities seem really lacklustre, though it's nice to finally get a skillful fighter archetype. There certainly has been a demand for the archetype ever since the Core book was released.
I've been thinking of doing a skillful and rugged Dwarf mercenary and just piling on all kinds of skill bonus feats(Breadth of Experience and that Seeker of Secrets feat come to mind), but losing weapon training and having teamwork-feat based abilities means that the Tactician archetype needs more optimization than the regular fighter.
|
|
I may be doing a tactician soon; but it's so hard to justify tactician... Cavalier does his trick better, and really no teamwork feats are worth it without solo tactics from Inquisitor 3 or a specifically built party willing to take it. You don't get to share out often enough to justify it. Inquisitor 3 also gives you the switch-out teamwork feat action, which is cool in its own right.
Holy tactician also does this very well, as all allies get to keep the feat of the pally's choice. And he can get a horse to be his "friend" for some of the other teamwork feats. You can also switch out (keep the perception one up till combat, then give allies +d6 damage while flanking when combat starts). High CHA build instead of Int, but a strong build.
Feats:
1 - Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2 - Dodge
3 - Mobility
4 - Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack (lose improved trip)
5 - Improved Trip
6 - Greater Improved Trip
7 - Lunge
8: Power attack
I've touted the advantages here many times, but basically by 8 you attack everyone within 15 feet, trip them (should be about +22 CMB) and AOO them at +2 to hit (Polearm master).
Lunge doesn't help your AoOs - it only affects attacks on your turn.
|
|
Polearm master / tripper is amazing for a 25 point build. I'd go ahead and jack int up to 14 and put favored class to HP.
Str: 18
Int: 14
Wis: 10
Dex: 14
Con: 14
Chr: 10 (I am assuming you hate dump stats)Traits: Horsechopper Heirloom weapon (+2 trip), diplomacy as class skill (or perception if you join Grand Lodge)
Feats:
1 - Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2 - Dodge
3 - Mobility
4 - Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack (lose improved trip)
5 - Improved Trip
6 - Greater Improved Trip
7 - Lunge
8: Power attack
I've touted the advantages here many times, but basically by 8 you attack everyone within 15 feet, trip them (should be about +22 CMB) and AOO them at +2 to hit (Polearm master). +22 = +8 BAB +2 Heirloom +4 feats +6 Str (+2 item) +1 weapon train +1 weapon. +22 takes down most giant types more often than not at that level, and easily trips Mage-types (who don't do so well on that touch attack).For more fun pick up growth domain from Inquisitor / Cleric at 10 and get 25 feet. Or just have the friendly party Mage enlarge you.
um.... i wouldnt suggest doing this build now that the UC is out. you can do a cleave/cleaving finish build and hit just as many targets in a round. not only that but you dont waste , yes i said waste, as many feats.
power attack,cleave,great cleave,cleaving finish,greater cleaving finish into a trip build with stomp. it would be a very nasty build that achieves the same goal.
Thanks for your input folks. I'm pretty confident that between weapon spec/greater and power attack, as well as magic gear, weapon training and gloves of dueling, that I can crank out enough damage to contribute on my team. We already have a good number of people on the front line, and I'm trying to create a more well-rounded character than I usually would.
AdAstra's sold me on Blind Fight in another thread. I'll also consider Lunge, Step Up and/or Bodyguard. We're using the hero point system so I should be safe attempting most manuevers if I burn a hero point. I'm figuring I wont have the feats for TWF/Shield Slam, or for Deadly Stroke/Intimidate Feats.
Something like this might be the way I go. It's pretty close to AdAstra's build, which was missing one of my favourite feats (can somebody guess? It's the first one I've taken. :P) I may forgo critical feats for more "battlefield presence" through lunge and combat reflexes, though those levels seem a long way off. I might invest in greater grapple so I can manacle an opponent in half the time. There's also leadership, which may or may not be appropriate. I haven't played Lawful Good in my entire career so we'll see where it takes me.
Level 1: Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike, Additional Traits/Cosmopolitan
Level 2: Improved Grapple
Level 3: Weapon Focus
Level 4: Weapon Specialization
Level 5: Cleave
Level 6: Step Up
Level 7: Open Slot
Level 8: Greater Weapon Focus
Level 9: Critical Mastery
Level 10: Blind Fight
Level 11: Staggering Critical
Level 12: Greater Weapon Specialization
Thanks for all of your input, guys. If I've made any glaring mistakes, let me know.
I understand that Power Attack might as well be printed on fighter character sheets as the 1st level feat.
I can make the argument that Power Attack is too powerful with fighters when they have so many more options than other classes do to improve their to-hits AND get damage bonuses for free with Weapon Training. The game works best when one party member isn't just shredding encounters because he's doing too much damage per hit.
(Corben is expressly built WITHOUT Power Attack to prove that you can make a fun and viable fighter without it. Plus, I play him on TTopRPG, which has a random number generator that periodically rolls streaky and low. Not Missing is an important thing when you aren't jacking your iterative attacks through the roof.)
Greater Blind-fighting is freaking awesome, by the way.
|
I believe thats been made obselete.
Have they released something in PF that replaces it? I'm checking archetypes right now. If not, it's still valid, as PF is backwards compatible.
Edit: Aha, the Tactician archetype! I'd still allow the Campaign Setting option if the player didn't want all the high level trades however.
I understand that Power Attack might as well be printed on fighter character sheets as the 1st level feat.
I can make the argument that Power Attack is too powerful with fighters when they have so many more options than other classes do to improve their to-hits AND get damage bonuses for free with Weapon Training. The game works best when one party member isn't just shredding encounters because he's doing too much damage per hit.
(Corben is expressly built WITHOUT Power Attack to prove that you can make a fun and viable fighter without it. Plus, I play him on TTopRPG, which has a random number generator that periodically rolls streaky and low. Not Missing is an important thing when you aren't jacking your iterative attacks through the roof.)
Greater Blind-fighting is freaking awesome, by the way.
It seems we both have something to prove. I'll be playing side by side with a greatsword toting ranger, so I'm packing a longsword and hoping to deal comparative damage.
I'm not sure that the Campaign Setting book is on the table, unfortunately. I'll run it by him. Thanks. :)
While we're talking about the tactician, I remember being quite dissapointed by it. I loved the class skills, but standard action tactician is kind of hard to justify using... Especially if you have to trade out weapon training for it. I play a calavier in my main campaign, which has been notoriously deadly and extremely high powered. Thanks to power attack, he's the parties main damage dealer, and thanks to bodyguard, the honour guard archetype and the order of the dragon, along with the shielded caster feat, I can really cover my party member's asses at the same time. I'd originally tried to build him as a tactician because of my love affair with weapon specialisation and was really dissapointed with the end result. :/
|
|
Holy Tactician is great; since they permanently keep a feat of your choice. Even better, you get a mount whom you can give the other teamwork feats so you can standard action change what the party gets. Lots of great options to choose from, both in and out of combat. If I didn't hate Pallies with a passion (codes of conduct suck :)) I'd enjoy playing it :).