Okie doke. So given all that, what's the cheapest way to be able to cast dimension door?
Scrolls work?
How can a rogue get access cheaply?
Magus or synthesist summoner.
Okie doke. So given all that, what's the cheapest way to be able to cast dimension door?
Scrolls work?
How can a rogue get access cheaply?
I think the RAI is for the character to be able to cast it naturally without the use of magic items. When you use a scroll you are not casting the spell. The spell was already cast into the scroll. You are just activating the scroll, and while it is like casting a spell you are not actually casting one.
Staves and wands allow you to cast spells, but I don't think they were intended to count either for the purposes of feats and so on. If they do then they could allow you to qualify for prestige classes if casting from items count, but I doubt many GM's would let that pass.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
@Abraham - Any particular reason beyond it not being explicitly in the rules that you feel that way?On the words of power? Personally I'm not too happy with them either -- I feel in many ways they are more powerful than they need to be, so I'm a bit biased -- however if you were playing in a word caster only campaign I wouldn't hold it against the players.
Ah, ok. I honestly haven't worked with the words a bunch myself so I am basing it on the assumption that words compare well to spells.
Ok. Never does the feat say you need to cast a spell, only cast Dimension Door.
All arguments based on whether a spell like ability counts as casted or not in terms of whether it is a spell or not are irrelevant. Half the posts in this thread are therefore off topic.
Cast Dimension Door is the requirement, this is quite clear. It does not say 'cast dimension door spell' or 'cast dimension door as a spell' or know the dimension door spell, all of which would exclude spell like abilities.
Anything that counts as 'casting' dimension door, be it spell like, supernatural or extraordinary qualifies except 'casting from items' as they are strictly excluded in the rules from qualifying for feats etc.
Actually it is not irrelevant. RAI is normally used if it contradicts RAW. The "dead" condition does not have any verbage taking a character out of play, but I don't think that will pass at any GM's table.
With that said would you allow a "dead" character to keep playing or someone who can cast 3rd levels spells, but only through scrolls to qualify for a PrC since it does not have a restriction against magic items?
Magus or synthesist summoner.
Okie doke. So given all that, what's the cheapest way to be able to cast dimension door?
Scrolls work?
How can a rogue get access cheaply?
3 levels of horizon walker maybe
Ok. Never does the feat say you need to cast a spell, only cast Dimension Door.
All arguments based on whether a spell like ability counts as casted or not in terms of whether it is a spell or not are irrelevant. Half the posts in this thread are therefore off topic.
Cast Dimension Door is the requirement, this is quite clear. It does not say 'cast dimension door spell' or 'cast dimension door as a spell' or know the dimension door spell, all of which would exclude spell like abilities.
Anything that counts as 'casting' dimension door, be it spell like, supernatural or extraordinary qualifies except 'casting from items' as they are strictly excluded in the rules from qualifying for feats etc.
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9n9y
Simple enough.
...
1. Does the abilities that act as Dimension door, qualify as the pre-req to learn Dimensional Agility? ...
How is the SLA discussion off-topic again?
Ok. Never does the feat say you need to cast a spell, only cast Dimension Door.
All arguments based on whether a spell like ability counts as casted or not in terms of whether it is a spell or not are irrelevant. Half the posts in this thread are therefore off topic.
Cast Dimension Door is the requirement, this is quite clear. It does not say 'cast dimension door spell' or 'cast dimension door as a spell' or know the dimension door spell, all of which would exclude spell like abilities.
Anything that counts as 'casting' dimension door, be it spell like, supernatural or extraordinary qualifies except 'casting from items' as they are strictly excluded in the rules from qualifying for feats etc.
Actually it is not irrelevant. RAI is normally used if it contradicts RAW. The "dead" condition does not have any verbage taking a character out of play, but I don't think that will pass at any GM's table.
With that said would you allow a "dead" character to keep playing or someone who can cast 3rd levels spells, but only through scrolls to qualify for a PrC since it does not have a restriction against magic items?
I misread the post. I thought you were saying magic items did count. Sorry about that.
So do we know yet if it's just Magus and Summoner SLA's that allow Dimensional Agility? Or is it all SLAs?
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
RAI should include the Shadowdancer's Shadow Jump ability, ala, Nightcrawler
RAI should include the Shadowdancer's Shadow Jump ability, ala, Nightcrawler
** spoiler omitted **
RAI, it should, and I would allow it in a home game.
RAW, it's harder to argue, it's worded as an activated ability rather than something that is cast.
I wish we could get a friggin' semi-official answer/clarification on this...
I wish we could get a friggin' semi-official answer/clarification on this...Who cares? Pick the answer you like.
Me, I figure if someone cast use a dimension door, they can take the feat.
I do. I would hate to say sure and another PFS GM wont let him.
Doesn't get much more official than the rule book. The requirements are stated as either casting dimension door OR the monk's abundant step ability. Given that the monk ability IS the only non-spellcasting alternative listed as a qualifier, that means that shadow jumping or any other of the non-caster tricks that are like it are not in the running.
I think this could be because the monk ability is not an SLA, since SLA's are generally thought of as casting the spell, sans components and a couple other little differences. They even have a caster level.
If you check the abundant step entry in the SRD, it shows that monks perform it "as if using the spell Dimension Door". They don't actually cast the spell Dimension Door, which is why it was included. If the actual spell dimension door is cast by the SLA, then I say it qualifies for the feat.
I propose that Pathfinder simply errata the feats, changing the Prerequsite from this:
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door
to the following:
Prerequisites: Ability to use the abundant step class feature or possessing dimension door as one of your spells known or being able to cast 4th level spells and having dimension door in your spell book or being able to cast 4th level spells and having dimension door as one of your domain spells or ability to use the shadow jump class feature.
Problem solved.
Master Arminas
|
If you check the abundant step entry in the SRD, it shows that monks perform it "as if using the spell Dimension Door". They don't actually cast the spell Dimension Door, which is why it was included. If the actual spell dimension door is cast by the SLA, then I say it qualifies for the feat.
Nice necro of a thread.
A crud, didn't notice, sorry. Really appreciate you pointing it out tho. I'll try harder next time.
So...I was planning on making a fighter/horizon walker with this line of feats. Have you guys decided whether or not dimension door spell-like abilities qualify?
Personally, there is no doubt that you can "cast" spell-like abilities. It is clearly stated all throughout the game's rules.
They do not. SLAs are not and never were spells.
What are some examples of SLAs being "cast"? I only recall them being activated or used.
They do not. SLAs are not and never were spells.
What are some examples of SLAs being "cast"? I only recall them being activated or used.
I never said anything at all about spell-like abilities being spells. Try to stay on topic here.
Also, I find it funny that the feat chain doesn't say anything at all about spells in any event, just the ability to "cast" dimension door.
As for your example:
Spell-Like Abilities: A drow can cast dancing lights, darkness, and faerie fire, once each per day, using her total character level as her caster level.
That is only one of many within the game's rules. Using the word "cast" in reference to spell-like abilities occurs all over the place.
Here was your question being asked yesterday too :)
It looks like a certain somebody didn't do a search for old threads before posting. (Them not me.)
OK, just did a search of the CRB for "spell-like abilit", so as to get "y" and "ies".
Here are the results, from just the core rulebook.
SLAs "cast":
major magic
minor talent
One of Us (undead bloodline)
SLAs "use" or Activate:
combat casting
Actions in combat
Using Special Ability
using a spell-like ability on the defensive
Special Abilities: Spell-like abilities
When Spell Resistance Applies
Grappled
Pinned
So 3 class abilities agree that they're "cast" and the actual rules that determine things say they are used or activated.
They are ALL rules. They ALL determine things. Just because you indicate there's some kind of schism in the rules, or that one set or rules is more important than another, doesn't mean that, that is actually the case.
And that's just the core rulebook. Have you bothered to look elsewhere? "Casting" spell-like abilities is pretty prevalent.
Nope, I haven't. The core rules that describe spell-like abilities are all in agreement, so I assume other instances of "cast" are mistakes or just shorthand.
Assume all you like. It doesn't change the fact that spell-like abilities are cast as per the rules. Just because some instances of the rules say "use" instead doesn't mean they are not cast. Every rule you've ever quoted in support of your interpretation is NOT exclusionary. Spell-like abilities can be used or cast. The terms are interchangeable in regards to spell-like abilities. Doesn't change the fact that I can cast/use my dimension door spell-like ability with the dimension agility feat chain.
Then why did you ask if you already "knew" the answer?
I didn't ask if it worked a certain way. I asked if you guys had come to your own conclusions.
Reading comprehension. It's important.
What if I find an example of a free action being able to be used out of turn, without an exception? Does that mean all free actions can be done out of turn?
What if I find an example of a free action being able to be used out of turn, without an exception? Does that mean all free actions can be done out of turn?
The only example of that is talking, and it is clearly an exception to the rule.
Honor in All Things, Order of the Warrior. Free action bonus to saving throws. You're welcome to argue that it's for the miniscule amount of saving throws you make on your turn.
Pre-reprinting of the APG, Life Link for the summoner was a free action. I trust you would've, pre-reprinting, argued that this means free actions could be done out of turn. It's a rule too and there's no precedence of rules, right?
Warning, Preacher Inquisitor. Forces enemies to reroll attacks against other allies. as a free action.
Interesting.