2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
I love that this is probably a fairly widely held belief of guys who are annoyed that the women folk at their table are oblivious to their lusty intentions, guys who don't have the confidence or cojones to let those intentions be known, and guys that can't understand whats not attractive about cheetos stuck in a neckbeard.
No, it's not all about them. These girls are hardly coming along and being teases for the lulz.
If they got 'some other guy' it's because the guys at the table simply weren't competitive.
|
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
I love that this is probably a fairly widely held belief of guys who are annoyed that the women folk at their table are oblivious to their lusty intentions, guys who don't have the confidence or cojones to let those intentions be known, and guys that can't understand whats not attractive about cheetos stuck in a neckbeard.
No, it's not all about them. These girls are hardly coming along and being teases for the lulz.
If they got 'some other guy' it's because the guys at the table simply weren't competitive.
Well, I do remember at one convention a group of us guys adjourned to a hotel room for a game, and then two girls show up (and who didn't have the room) and proceed to take a jacuzzi and make a bunch of noise in the room.
Now, no, they weren't playing, but they were desperate for attention. Still, that's the ONLY time I've ever witnessed that level of selfish grandstanding (thankfully).
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
2.Girls who want attention from what they perceive are sex starved nerds who they want to tease to the point of mindless frustration and being the focus of a group of guys that they never intend on being involved with romantically, opting instead for a guy with tats and piercings thats never heard of RPG's and who's only game is a copy of MADDEN for his PS3. They borrow their little brother's copy of halo, and play long enough to get 5-10 gamer points and quit or they join some games at a local comic book store and they sit through a few sessions long enough to get the attention they want and ride the coat tails of someone else's hobby to look cool and different via informing everyone of their DND exploits via FACEBOOK. 95%
I love that this is probably a fairly widely held belief of guys who are annoyed that the women folk at their table are oblivious to their lusty intentions, guys who don't have the confidence or cojones to let those intentions be known, and guys that can't understand whats not attractive about cheetos stuck in a neckbeard.
No, it's not all about them. These girls are hardly coming along and being teases for the lulz.
If they got 'some other guy' it's because the guys at the table simply weren't competitive.
Well, I do remember at one convention a group of us guys adjourned to a hotel room for a game, and then two girls show up (and who didn't have the room) and proceed to take a jacuzzi and make a bunch of noise in the room.
Now, no, they weren't playing, but they were desperate for attention. Still, that's the ONLY time I've ever witnessed that level of selfish grandstanding (thankfully).
i have got to start going to more of these hotel cons.
|
So I am a female coordinator in PFS.. I've come to quickly realize, that not only am I as rare as a Ioun Stone, but I am treated like one as well. I think single-handedly, the best way to deal with it back, is to give them a taste of their own medicine.
If you are surrounded by socially akward, fouled-mouth jerks, guess what? You can be just like that. If they get mad at you and say something, then you easily have the "Treat others the way you want to be treated card."
Ladies, I'm sorry to say but: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do." So if they talk mess, and be rude a%!$+%$s, you have permission to do the same. If you don't like that, then I'm sorry to say, either develop a tough skin, or go play somewhere else. Some men don't change until you show them that women can be just as big of an a&&++!$ as them.
I wish I could promote positive gaming amongst guys and girls. But in a male-dominated gaming society, we girls either adapt, or get left out. Make your decision accordingly.
Best of luck ladies, don't be afraid to go kicking down doors and flipping tables like the boys. Who knows? You may actually earn their respect.
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Lady Ophelia, my personal experience is if I say something coarse, a few male gamers are more likely to stare at me even MORE like I am an alien being. But only a few, and they're usually only a bit shocked before moving on.
Now, does that stop me from saying something? No. If I feel like talking trash, I'll talk trash (and likewise if I feel like waxing eloquent, I'll do so).
My advice to female gamers--no, my advice to any gamer is--don't TRY to be anything. Be yourself. Perhaps within what hopefully are the reasonable confines of "be respectful." The latter means doesn't mean you have to behave like Lord Chivalrous or Miss Manners, it just means--as Lady Ophelia indeed says--treat people like you want to be treated.
But a female gamer shouldn't have to feel compelled to talk or act in a way she's not comfortable, nor should a male gamer. Some gamers of either gender aren't into talking crap. Some gamers of either gender are quite raunchy. And the world turns.
But there's no way in hell I'd agree with the idea that a woman has to "act like a boy" (whatever that means) to fit in with other gamers. And the multitudes of female gamers and male gamers I play with I think would also vehemently disagree. Now, if you're a female and your natural inclination is to throw tables and make fart jokes, great. As a matter of fact, I think it's pretty damn unfair to men to characterize rudeness or coarseness to be a purely male characteristic, because it's certainly not.
But if anyone tries too hard to be what you're not--whatever that might be--it shows. It makes you uncomfortable and it makes others uncomfortable with you. Now, be yourself--some'll accept you and others won't. But that way you know who's worth hanging out with for real. That attitude's worked for me for the decades I've been gaming, and I feel confident it will continue to.
I warrant Lady Ophelia's situation is probably difficult, being where you have to put up with whomever signs up for PFS (I assume--I don't really understand how PFS works), you can't choose your gaming group so easily, but OTOH, I know store events I assist in at my FLGS, everyone's expected to behave civilly within reason, no matter their dangly bits. There's no way rude behavior, regardless of who it's coming from should be accepted in a public space in a community event, and it certainly wouldn't be at my FLGS.
|
|
Lady Ophelia, my personal experience is if I say something coarse, a few male gamers are more likely to stare at me even MORE like I am an alien being. But only a few, and they're usually only a bit shocked before moving on.
Now, does that stop me from saying something? No. If I feel like talking trash, I'll talk trash (and likewise if I feel like waxing eloquent, I'll do so).
My advice to female gamers--no, my advice to any gamer is--don't TRY to be anything. Be yourself. Perhaps within what hopefully are the reasonable confines of "be respectful." The latter means doesn't mean you have to behave like Lord Chivalrous or Miss Manners, it just means--as Lady Ophelia indeed says--treat people like you want to be treated.
But a female gamer shouldn't have to feel compelled to talk or act in a way she's not comfortable, nor should a male gamer. Some gamers of either gender aren't into talking crap. Some gamers of either gender are quite raunchy. And the world turns.
But there's no way in hell I'd agree with the idea that a woman has to "act like a boy" (whatever that means) to fit in with other gamers. And the multitudes of female gamers and male gamers I play with I think would also vehemently disagree. Now, if you're a female and your natural inclination is to throw tables and make fart jokes, great. As a matter of fact, I think it's pretty damn unfair to men to characterize rudeness or coarseness to be a purely male characteristic, because it's certainly not.
But if anyone tries too hard to be what you're not--whatever that might be--it shows. It makes you uncomfortable and it makes others uncomfortable with you. Now, be yourself--some'll accept you and others won't. But that way you know who's worth hanging out with for real. That attitude's worked for me for the decades I've been gaming, and I feel confident it will continue to.
I warrant Lady Ophelia's situation is probably difficult, being where you have to put up with whomever signs up for PFS (I assume--I don't really understand how PFS...
DeathQuaker, I am not saying don't be respectful, I am just stating, I don't have to be anything you expect me to be. Be yourself and be respectful indeed, but don't be afraid to cuss out people and hold your own either. Many times, the FLGS owners themselves aren't all that wholesome and respectful either.
What I am saying, is don't let anybody walk all over you just cause you are a girl gamer. Be yourself, but don't be afraid to kick some butt if needed to get the respect you rightfully deserve. Unfortunately, many girls I see that come into our gaming community get run off by foul language and an inability to hold their own and stand their ground against the other players. Ladies, if you don't stand for something, you'll just fall for anything. So step up and accept that this is gaming.
|
|
Is this thread in a timewarp from the 1980's or something?
I don't need to ask the two dozen or so female gamers I know very well (or the fifty or so that I know in passing) whether they get respect because I know they do. Most of them are very forceful people and they would not put up with any macho bull.
OP you may have issues with the gamers you play with. Find better gamers because this stuff? Not happened in my experience.
What I am saying, is don't let anybody walk all over you just cause you are a girl gamer. Be yourself, but don't be afraid to kick some butt if needed to get the respect you rightfully deserve. Unfortunately, many girls I see that come into our gaming community get run off by foul language and an inability to hold their own and stand their ground against the other players. Ladies, if you don't stand for something, you'll just fall for anything. So step up and accept that this is gaming.
I certainly wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment of not letting anyone intimidate you or walk all over you.
Is this thread in a timewarp from the 1980's or something?
I don't need to ask the two dozen or so female gamers I know very well (or the fifty or so that I know in passing) whether they get respect because I know they do. Most of them are very forceful people and they would not put up with any macho bull.
OP you may have issues with the gamers you play with. Find better gamers because this stuff? Not happened in my experience.
FallofCamelot, a lot of this has to do with region and age of the people involved. I am very glad to hear that where you live and in your peer group, women gamers are respected. This is not the case in all areas nor in all peer groups, and it's not fair to discount the experiences of people like the OP just because you've personally not seen it happen.
That said, absolutely you're right that often if the people you try to play with are incessantly intolerable, of course you need to find people who are worth playing with. Sometimes that's easier said than done, but it doesn't make the doing less worthwhile.
|
Is this thread in a timewarp from the 1980's or something?
I don't need to ask the two dozen or so female gamers I know very well (or the fifty or so that I know in passing) whether they get respect because I know they do. Most of them are very forceful people and they would not put up with any macho bull.
OP you may have issues with the gamers you play with. Find better gamers because this stuff? Not happened in my experience.
Sadly that stuff still happens. Not as much and it seems to keep getting better. But I stopped going to cons and pickup games because of stuff like this about 5 years ago. It didn't happen a ton but enough that it just wasn't worth it to me to keep doing them. I have a main group I play in and a second group I sometimes join and they both work well so i am happy. It did take me a bit to find them though.
Sadly that stuff still happens. Not as much and it seems to keep getting better. But I stopped going to cons and pickup games because of stuff like this about 5 years ago. It didn't happen a ton but enough that it just wasn't worth it to me to keep doing them. I have a main group I play in and a second group I sometimes join and they both work well so i am happy. It did take me a bit to find them though.Is this thread in a timewarp from the 1980's or something?
I don't need to ask the two dozen or so female gamers I know very well (or the fifty or so that I know in passing) whether they get respect because I know they do. Most of them are very forceful people and they would not put up with any macho bull.
OP you may have issues with the gamers you play with. Find better gamers because this stuff? Not happened in my experience.
OK I want to delve into this point a bit more. Even as a male player I am not super thrilled with the few FLGS or Con games I have been to. How do you make connections without those especially if you relocate? I am getting ready to move back to the southeast and it took me the better part of a year and a half to find a group that my style fit here in Boulder. Part of what I want is a group of friends that also game which I realize may not be as big a part of the hobby for others. What techniques have you folks who avoid fishing at the FLGS and other venues used to find your groups?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OK I want to delve into this point a bit more. Even as a male player I am not super thrilled with the few FLGS or Con games I have been to. How do you make connections without those especially if you relocate? I am getting ready to move back to the southeast and it took me the better part of a year and a half to find a group that my style fit here in Boulder. Part of what I want is a group of friends that also game which I realize may not be as big a part of the hobby for others. What techniques have you folks who avoid fishing at the FLGS and other venues used to find your groups?Sadly that stuff still happens. Not as much and it seems to keep getting better. But I stopped going to cons and pickup games because of stuff like this about 5 years ago. It didn't happen a ton but enough that it just wasn't worth it to me to keep doing them. I have a main group I play in and a second group I sometimes join and they both work well so i am happy. It did take me a bit to find them though.Is this thread in a timewarp from the 1980's or something?
I don't need to ask the two dozen or so female gamers I know very well (or the fifty or so that I know in passing) whether they get respect because I know they do. Most of them are very forceful people and they would not put up with any macho bull.
OP you may have issues with the gamers you play with. Find better gamers because this stuff? Not happened in my experience.
If I may (understanding this question was directed toward DarkMistress)...
I wouldn't avoid fishing at FLGS, but I'd do so selectively. Go to a gaming event they host and try a demo or something like. If you find a GM's style you like or player you get along with, ask them to introduce you to gamers they know.
If you're roughly college/graduate student age and leave near a university, look up university gaming clubs. Often they will happy to accept guest members even if you don't go to their school--and it can't hurt to at least ask.
Otherwise... I know I've met some gamers by reading rulebooks in public. But that's dependent on luck and local population, I think.
If I may (understanding this question was directed toward DarkMistress)...I wouldn't avoid fishing at FLGS, but I'd do so selectively. Go to a gaming event they host and try a demo or something like. If you find a GM's style you like or player you get along with, ask them to introduce you to gamers they know.
If you're roughly college/graduate student age and leave near a university, look up university gaming clubs. Often they will happy to accept guest members even if you don't go to their...
I am sorry i was unclear please respond everyone, I really wanted to open this up to the GP as many people for various reasons may not wish to deal with certain other sectors of the gaming population, the discussion about how women gamers deal with issues that I as a man dont (and hope not to contribute to) in regards to better group selection process just spurred my tangent.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OK I want to delve into this point a bit more. Even as a male player I am not super thrilled with the few FLGS or Con games I have been to. How do you make connections without those especially if you relocate? I am getting ready to move back to the southeast and it took me the better part of a year and a half to find a group that my style fit here in Boulder. Part of what I want is a group of friends that also game which I realize may not be as big a part of the hobby for others. What techniques have you folks who avoid fishing at the FLGS and other venues used to find your groups?
If I may (understanding this question was directed toward DarkMistress)...
I wouldn't avoid fishing at FLGS, but I'd do so selectively. Go to a gaming event they host and try a demo or something like. If you find a GM's style you like or player you get along with, ask them to introduce you to gamers they know.
If you're roughly college/graduate student age and leave near a university, look up university gaming clubs. Often they will happy to accept guest members even if you don't go to their...
I used meetup.com when I moved to the Houston area. As long as the venue is a public place where you can feel relatively safe, it's a great tool to meet people in the area, and try to narrow things down to people you were comfortable gaming with, and people you weren't. I went to a gaming group that was mostly board games and card games, but there were a few tabletop roleplayers, and one invited me to his home game.
I find that in pick up groups the incidence of scary/creepy/unpleasant/enjoy a different aspect of the game than I enjoy people is higher - it would have to be. And sometimes, especially if you're not there with at least one friend you can hang out with a lot, it can be too much stress to take. While friends in home games have occasionally annoyed me, it's not a pattern - or I wouldn't be gaming with them in general! The really disturbing behavior happens generally with a new group, a pick up group of some sort, or when someone new (you or someone else) joins an existing group.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I am sorry i was unclear please respond everyone, I really wanted to open this up to the GP as many people for various reasons may not wish to deal with certain other sectors of the gaming population, the discussion about how women gamers deal with issues that I as a man dont (and hope not to contribute to) in regards to better group selection process just spurred my tangent.
If I may (understanding this question was directed toward DarkMistress)...I wouldn't avoid fishing at FLGS, but I'd do so selectively. Go to a gaming event they host and try a demo or something like. If you find a GM's style you like or player you get along with, ask them to introduce you to gamers they know.
If you're roughly college/graduate student age and leave near a university, look up university gaming clubs. Often they will happy to accept guest members even if you don't go to their...
When we lost a few players to military service and moving to another state, we needed an extra player or two. I knew that a few of the guys on the Paizo boards were from Sydney and I suggested that we have a Sydney Pazionians Pub day.
We met some great guys and asked Mothman if he wanted to join our crew.
Mothy has been an excellent addition to our game.
So ask on the boards if there are people in the town you are moving to organise to meet a neutral place like a pub or coffee shop. See if you can build a group.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
A lot of generalisations about female and male role-players have been thrown about. It creates an us and them attitude.... either side becoming defensive when negative anecdotes and con stories are being used to drive home an agenda.
What it does is fractures a community...
Yeh there are bad gamers of either gender and I think you will find an equal proportion percentage-wise. Unfortunately for the time-being the majority of players are male so the population of male A-hats is higher. Once the gender ratio evens out you will have an equal number of A-hats of either gender to complain about.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
OK I want to delve into this point a bit more. Even as a male player I am not super thrilled with the few FLGS or Con games I have been to. How do you make connections without those especially if you relocate? I am getting ready to move back to the southeast and it took me the better part of a year and a half to find a group that my style fit here in Boulder. Part of what I want is a group of friends that also game which I realize may not be as big a part of the hobby for others. What techniques have you folks who avoid fishing at the FLGS and other venues used to find your groups?
If going to a new area the way i used was. They had a board game night at the local FLGS which tends to have some kids attend which put people on better behavior. Also I sometimes would go hang out at the FLGS during game nights and just talk to people. Saying I couldn't stay long enough to get in a game. Let me be exposed to the varies groups and talk to people often one on one while varies games took place. The final thing was answering ads, though this can be as bad as pickup groups. On the plus side with the ads the whole group tends to be similar so a bad one stands out fast and a good one tends to stand out fast.
Now your area might not offer all the above, the ads was on a bulletin board at the same FLGS. Either way best of luck, last time I moved it took me the better part of 18 months to find a good group. I nearly gave up looking.
|
We met some great guys and asked Mothman if he wanted to join our crew.
Mothy has been an excellent addition to our game.
Thanks mate.
The 8th Dwarf and most of the crew know each other really well and have been gaming together for a long time, and I think they really wanted to make sure that they found someone who was the right fit for their group (which is a fine idea). For the record they put me through quite an audition process! I think I met the various members of the gaming group at three different pub meetups before they formally invited me to join the group. I was beginning to think ‘well, these guys are good drinkers, but do they ever actually roleplay?’ :-)
Anyway, I think that meeting gamers in your area through some sort of network, be it a website, your local gaming store or a con is great, but it’s not a bad idea to get to know the person outside of that environment before you invite them to your home game (or join theirs) it could save a lot of hassle down the line.
We met some great guys and asked Mothman if he wanted to join our crew.
Mothy has been an excellent addition to our game.For the record they put me through quite an audition process! I think I met the various members of the gaming group at three different pub meetups before they formally invited me to join the group. I was beginning to think ‘well, these guys are good drinkers, but do they ever actually roleplay?’ :-)
You are very lucky we managed to talk Chubbs out of wanting to try you out on the casting couch. :-)
As Mothy and 8Dorf have already covered, this is an excellent way to meet more gamers.
Having boards like the Paizo forums is a great asset we didn't have back in the day; back in the day the only 'board' we had was a community noticeboard in the local public library in the 'gaming' section (ie RPG's, board games, old people playing bridge) OR as a teen rocking along to the nearest Uni to jump on with their Roleplaying Society (Really had a rough time as a 13 year old, but they cut me some slack).
I went to a lot of cons back in the day but I think we only ended up with a very small number of new players from that source. FLGS we got one, but he was the worlds biggest cluster... I found a group through a FLGS but ended up getting a job out of that group working for one of the guys, and then felt like I didn't really want to sit down and game with my employer.
Strangely enough it appears as though there are 3 or more groups I know of on these boards that operate within a five to ten minute drive from my house. So they are out there, and if one group treats players poorly there is always plan b.
A lot of generalisations about female and male role-players have been thrown about. It creates an us and them attitude.... either side becoming defensive when negative anecdotes and con stories are being used to drive home an agenda.
What it does is fractures a community...
Yeh there are bad gamers of either gender and I think you will find an equal proportion percentage-wise. Unfortunately for the time-being the majority of players are male so the population of male A-hats is higher. Once the gender ratio evens out you will have an equal number of A-hats of either gender to complain about.
If I may, I agree with you and dark_mistress and a lot of the previous posters.
Initially its a matter of numbers.
And personal experience will lead to generalization(even from the more intelligent and scholarly of people) since its the human brain that works in patterns..
Kitty I never experienced the over the top problems most of the people describe here(maybe because of cycles, pure circumstance or living in Europe is actually a factor.Doesn't matter)
Its important that you don't create an ''us & them'' ideology(I noticed you tend to favor -if slightly- female posters with ''guys are jerks" stories.Please don't hate me for stating this)
A few years back I was in a familiar if reversed situation(playing with a lot of females)
These were bad role-players, gossipers, attention seekers and even brought personal issues into the game.
Are all female gamers like that? No. But if I let my anger and a few sympathetic posts (from ''bros'') convince me otherwise I would never have gamed with women again.
My point? Men and women both are susceptible to folly.Find your ideal group and you ll see it works regardless of gender.
Good luck and happy gaming! :)
PS:
About all those stereotypes of social awkward people:
My oldest group is composed by people who are nerdy to most accounts(most of us are scientists or engineers) yet we lead what passes as successful lives in the west(cars,girlfriends,nice apartments)
And if not for our worst/coffee-deprived moments of the week I'd like to believe me and my friends are charming socially.
Oh and our resident womanizer?(I mean this in a non-offensive way) he's overweight.Some people need to stop with all the film cliche
OK I want to delve into this point a bit more. Even as a male player I am not super thrilled with the few FLGS or Con games I have been to. How do you make connections without those especially if you relocate? I am getting ready to move back to the southeast and it took me the better part of a year and a half to find a group that my style fit here in Boulder. Part of what I want is a group of friends that also game which I realize may not be as big a part of the hobby for others. What techniques have you folks who avoid fishing at the FLGS and other venues used to find your groups?If going to a new area the way i used was. They had a board game night at the local FLGS which tends to have some kids attend which put people on better behavior. Also I sometimes would go hang out at the FLGS during game nights and just talk to people. Saying I couldn't stay long enough to get in a game. Let me be exposed to the varies groups and talk to people often one on one while varies games took place. The final thing was answering ads, though this can be as bad as pickup groups. On the plus side with the ads the whole group tends to be similar so a bad one stands out fast and a good one tends to stand out fast.
Now your area might not offer all the above, the ads was on a bulletin board at the same FLGS. Either way best of luck, last time I moved it took me the better part of 18 months to find a good group. I nearly gave up looking.
To quote Adam Jensen: "I'll never stop looking!" ;)
|
|
As a female, I've never found myself to be looked down on. I mean sure the group's munchikin scoffs at me (then again, I call him puddles/the squid... long story involving darknesss and running away) so does the "kill everything in sight"... but that's because I'm a Role Player to the extreme...
Naw... the DM's favourite... that title belongs to his girlfriend... but that's because she can banish him to the couch if he pisses her off too much.
Stuff
I don't see what you're describing all the time, but I have seen it.
I'm not sure it's about "respect" per se, I think most gamer guys are actually trying to be "nice" to you. If anything, it's favoritism. All the same, it makes me sick too. :)
For example, in my personal life, I'm seen lots of favoritism towards the DMs girlfriend (or a girl he likes), which is quite pathetic.
The reason guys are "overcritical" is because they want to talk to you, get to know you. Kind of like asking for the time from someone, even when you have a watch. Some gamer guys have no social skills, so that's their approach. It's not you, it's them. A lot of gamer girls actually like this kind of attention and have gotten boyfriends this way. Of course, some guys just assume you're incompetent, which is annoying. Both are annoying.
I've also seen the following favoritism at conventions:
1) They're treated with "kids gloves" (basically impossible to die, fail a mission, or most other negative consequences). Very obvious GM fudging.
2) Women get boons and awards when it's not deserved.
I can't really disagree that I've seen those trends, except to say that all guy (and girl) gamers aren't like that. If the favoritism bothers you, the trick is finding a group that makes you feel comfortable.
Conventions are hit and miss, for guys as well as girls. It's a science experiment... sometimes you meet people you like, and sometimes not. It's like that for everyone. You have your pet peeves, I have mine.
-----------------
Like any personal issue, it's impossible for us to judge without knowing everyone and seeing the situation firsthand. So I'm going to talk about the dark side of some gamer girls.
Some of the gamer girls I've seen seems to have a chip on their shoulder, like they have something to prove. And some of them have anger issues. And god forbid you correct them on any rules. I don't know what that's about, but it's seems fairly common. I'm wondering, is it possible you're being oversensitive? Is it possible that some guys are treating you like everyone else but you're overreacting?
There are some really nice and cool gamer girls I've met. But on average there have been many more gamer girls with "attitude" than guys I've met. For these girls, it's not that they're being treated differently, it's their interpretation of the world, literally. I'm not sure this is you, but you might want to ask yourself these questions, or even get a neutral 3rd person observation.
|
On several occasions we had to tell her to leave, because she really did nothing but purposely distract players and interrupt the game(having players give her foot rubs, turn the tv on and crank the volume up, talk loudly over the DM, etc). It gets worse, but not sure if this is the place to talk about it.
Oh, it is. Please proceed.
Oh, it is. Please proceed.On several occasions we had to tell her to leave, because she really did nothing but purposely distract players and interrupt the game(having players give her foot rubs, turn the tv on and crank the volume up, talk loudly over the DM, etc). It gets worse, but not sure if this is the place to talk about it.
I'll try to be brief about it, as there's enough to write a book about. She basically used our gaming nights as a convenient means of getting attention from everyone in the room when she needed it. Our gaming group consisted of 90% of our social circle of friends, so this just made it easier for her to get as many eyes on her as possible.
Whenever we would not contact her for any stretch of time longer than 1 day, she would start calling around and miraculously have some earth-shattering horrible situation going on at her house and need somewhere to go. She recycled the same stories time and time again just to get sympathy from everyone. Normal people just call and ask to hang out, with her it was always some big show of emotion and plea for sympathy.
Eventually, more and more people wanted nothing to do with her. But bit by bit, everybody just became "busy" when she'd call, and rather than taking a hint that something was wrong, or trying to initiate talks to fix things, she would resort to blackmailing people to force them to hang out with her. She would dig up dirt on people, and use that as her means of getting people to spend time with her; if they declined or objected, she'd threaten to spill the dirt.
Getting back to gaming, she wormed her way into a game with a guy she was obsessed with for a long time (not me). She used the game to keep tabs on him and keep him and others busy on weekends. Any time he wasn't there, she would interrogate everyone else as to his whereabouts.
I wasn't involved in that game at first, but the others asked me to join and maybe help keep her in check, as she and I had had many arguments and battles in the past, I had absolutely no inhibitions about telling her when she was out of line. So, I join this game. First couple sessions, it's blatantly clear that any actual "gaming" was not the point of everyone being there. Over the course of several hours, a few players may have taken a couple actions, rolled a few die. That was it. The awkwardness and tension in the room was unbearable. Her eyes darted around to everyone like a prison guard.
After "gaming" ended one night, and after she left, I had a discussion with everyone about what was going on. They pleaded with me to help try and fix this, since she didn't have any dirt on me. I instructed everyone to delete and remove whatever contact info they had for her, and to simply ignore her calls. I contacted her and informed her that she was not to approach any of us at any time, or a lawyer would be contacted. No restraining order had been filed yet, and this was her friendly warning. There was no name-calling, no bargaining, no working things out. Most of us haven't heard from her since, and it's been at least 5 years.
This is the shortest, simplest example of a crazy girl using gaming to get attention out of people. This behavior of hers went on for years prior, and as soon as whomever she was attacking would get rid of her, she'd latch onto someone else. You shouldn't have to blackmail people to hang out with you.
A lot of generalisations about female and male role-players have been thrown about. It creates an us and them attitude.... either side becoming defensive when negative anecdotes and con stories are being used to drive home an agenda.
What it does is fractures a community...
Yeh there are bad gamers of either gender and I think you will find an equal proportion percentage-wise. Unfortunately for the time-being the majority of players are male so the population of male A-hats is higher. Once the gender ratio evens out you will have an equal number of A-hats of either gender to complain about.
If I may, I agree with you and dark_mistress and a lot of the previous posters.
Initially its a matter of numbers.
And personal experience will lead to generalization(even from the more intelligent and scholarly of people) since its the human brain that works in patterns..My point? Men and women both are susceptible to folly.Find your ideal group and you ll see it works regardless of gender.
Good luck and happy gaming! :)
Thank you for agreeing.
The "All men are bastards, all women are b!~*&es" meme wears very thin as you get older. You tend to notice that nobody is perfect but most people are just trying to make the best out of their lives.
I find that people that go on the "<insert gender, race, religion, and so on> do horrible things" rant are themselves flawed or one eyed and unpleasant to be around. I prefer to remove myself from their vicinity and find nicer people to talk to or game with.
If you don't like who you are interacting with socially then rather moaning about it, move on or talk to the people that are making you upset don't expect others to fix it for you it is both lazy and cowardly. If you stay within the group and make no moves to rectify the situation then it is your fault that you are miserable.
Oh, it is. Please proceed.On several occasions we had to tell her to leave, because she really did nothing but purposely distract players and interrupt the game(having players give her foot rubs, turn the tv on and crank the volume up, talk loudly over the DM, etc). It gets worse, but not sure if this is the place to talk about it.
I'll try to be brief about it, as there's enough to write a book about. She basically used our gaming nights as a convenient means of getting attention from everyone in the room when she needed it. Our gaming group consisted of 90% of our social circle of friends, so this just made it easier for her to get as many eyes on her as possible.
Whenever we would not contact her for any stretch of time longer than 1 day, she would start calling around and miraculously have some earth-shattering horrible situation going on at her house and need somewhere to go. She recycled the same stories time and time again just to get sympathy from everyone. Normal people just call and ask to hang out, with her it was always some big show of emotion and plea for sympathy.
Eventually, more and more people wanted nothing to do with her. But bit by bit, everybody just became "busy" when she'd call, and rather than taking a hint that something was wrong, or trying to initiate talks to fix things, she would resort to blackmailing people to force them to hang out with her. She would dig up dirt on people, and use that as her means of getting people to spend time with her; if they declined or objected, she'd threaten to spill the dirt.
Getting back to gaming, she wormed her way into a game with a guy she was obsessed with for a long time (not me). She used the game to keep tabs on him and keep him and others busy on weekends. Any time he wasn't there, she would interrogate everyone else as to his whereabouts.
I wasn't involved in that game at first, but the others asked me to join and maybe help keep her in check, as she and I had had many...
Yeah, we've had an attention monger at the table, too. But here's the thing: she was - and is - an attention monger no matter what we're doing. We might be at an anime con, we might be seeing a movie, we might be at an amusement park. Sometimes we're just hanging out. Somehow she finds a way to make everything about her, and to drum up some kind of drama.
The girl need not be a gamer, nor does gaming create this person's need. It's just one more in a long line of social situations that help to enable her further.
Now, please people. This thread had peacefully wandered off to its much deserved pasture. How about we all agree that everybody HERE ON THESE FORUMS will be nice and respectful to the ladies, so that this
CAN
GO
AWAY.
Please. There are only so many times we can hash and rehash the same observations.
Yeah, we've had an attention monger at the table, too. But here's the thing: she was - and is - an attention monger no matter what we're doing. We might be at an anime con, we might be seeing a movie, we might be at an amusement park. Sometimes we're just hanging out. Somehow she finds a way to make everything about her, and to drum up some kind of drama.
The girl need not be a gamer, nor does gaming create this person's need. It's just one more in a long line of social situations that help to enable her further.
Now, please people. This thread had peacefully wandered off to its much deserved pasture. How about we all agree that everybody HERE ON THESE FORUMS will be nice and respectful to the ladies, so that this
CAN
GO
AWAY.Please. There are only so many times we can hash and rehash the same observations.
Believe me, the girl from my story was definitely the exception, and not the rule. As I've posted earlier in this thread, I play with several other female gamers and they are kick ass gamers all around. The Red Hand of Doom game I run has an even 3 guys 3 girls split.
I never even delved into the CRAZY part of the girl from the above. I know I've mentioned it on other posts, maybe worst DM, PC thread or whatever. The thing I learned is that, you can't reason with someone on that level of crazy. Attention mongers can't be convinced not to be attention mongers. You have to treat them as you would an internet troll; cut them off, stop feeding them the attention they crave(even negative attention).
If the person is a friend, or has some other redeeming qualities, maybe you can help figure out where the deficiency in attention is coming from (parents, school, etc), but the person in my above example had become nothing but a social parasite. She was not happy unless someone else was miserable.
I have the feeling that this thread might soon go downhill simply judging from some of the posts here. So unless there are still some unresolved issues that someone will want to bring up, how about someone lock this thread before anything bad happens?
I have the feeling that this thread might soon go downhill simply judging from some of the posts here. So unless there are still some unresolved issues that someone will want to bring up, how about someone lock this thread before anything bad happens?
What do you think is going to happen? We're having a conversation and sharing some experiences. I shared a story(after I was asked to) about a particularly crazy girl gamer, but I've also shared, several times, that I play with several awesome girl gamers, and that the stereotype is untrue.
You have yet to contribute to the conversation, yet walk in and ask it to be closed? I'm sorry, but that seems sort of rude. Nobody is name-calling or flame-baiting in here, we're sharing some experiences, and hopefully breaking stereotypes. If the conclusion to the topic has been reached, this thread will die out on it's own.
Apologies if I came off rude (wait, how was being concerned a rude gesture?), but I just had this uneasy feeling about this. Also, I have my own experiences to share, but I don't have the time to do so right now (I need to get back to work), since I know a fair share girl gamers myself, one of them being my childhood friend with whom I played through two 3.5e campaigns.
Apologies if I came off rude (wait, how was being concerned a rude gesture?), but I just had this uneasy feeling about all this. Also, I have my own experiences to share, but I don't have the time to do so right now (I need to get back to work), since I know two girl gamers myself, one of them being my childhood friend.
Ok, but why the concern? Everyone else here seems to be ok, and again, nobody is directing any hostility at anyone else, so what's the worry? Yes, some of us have had some very bad experiences, but isn't part of the point to brings these negative thing into the light and figure them out? I had a particularly bad encounter with someone, and I was able to resolve the situation and live my life better for it. If you don't like the subject being discussed, you don't have to join in.
After being in the middle of a few hundred threads that turned into edition wars, I thought this thread was pretty tame. Almost more of a confessional thread than anything.
I find edition war threads to be rather humorous by now, but anyway.
My experiences with girl gamers are a bit hard to describe, mainly because I don't feel like I treat them any better or worse than I treat males who play the same games (I value all my friends equally, which might affect my judgement), and I can be equally nice or mean to people, regardless of gender. Of course an exception to this is my childhood friend, but I try to be careful with her because we go way back and also because she has problems with depression and anxiety. Anyway, me and my pal managed to convince her to join us in the first ever D&D game that I played in, which was a homebrew 3.5e campaign (which later shifted into Pathfinder).
She usually asked me how the game mechanics worked, and quite often (sometimes as a joke, and sometimes in a serious manner) said she will probably fail at something in the middle of the game, but I always tried to help her out when the DM couldn't. I also noticed that it was far easier (and more fun) to focus on the RP aspect of the game with her around, mostly because she (like me) was less focused on game mechanics and more towards the interaction between our characters, as my naive but headstrong Half-Elf Cleric of Pelor always tried to keep her Chaotic Good Elf Ranger (who was sometimes not so heroic) in line.
Meanwhile, in the other group that I play in (all males), it was more about "durrhurr SPACE MARINES" jokes and "your mother" insults aimed at Orcs or Hill Giants while the players proudly proclaimed about getting "Exp" off them (meaning all my plot points and insistence on roleplaying were more or less thrown out the window). I've gotten weary of some of these antics after I finished DMing a Pathfinder campaign for them (I made mistakes here and there, but it was more or less enjoyable for the players, though I wish it had been as fun for me) and kinda miss the other group now.
Anyway, what else can I say? I plan on returning to the group where my girl gamer friend hangs out at (I exiled myself after some rough arguing over things with the DM, since I felt like he didn't respect me as a friend) and playing with them again. I just hope I don't end up fighting with the DM again (he easily gets on my nerves, if only because his cynical antics have made my childhood friend cry, and I was next to the two when that happened).
And now this post really feels like a confessional.
I've only had one really bad experience relating to being female, and that's when I was introduced to a new group by the guy I was dating, and they were playing a system I wasn't familiar with. I had a hard time even convincing them I actually wanted to play, and the GM wanted to just make everyone's character before I got a chance to even look at the book.
All in all, I felt like I was being treated as "the girlfriend" rather than a gamer, even though I'd been the one to run the D&D game that introduced the boyfriend to tabletop gaming! (He had been an avid computer gamer including stuff like the Baldur's Gate series)
I just stopped gaming with that group, though, and most of the people I've gamed with have been pretty cool. Of course, I don't care if they make off-color jokes (you think you're going to offend me? I used to work in a casino). My biggest problem is probably getting people to realize that I really like combat, and I'm more interested in rules than my fiance, who's big on RP and story and less interested in mechanics.
Believe me, the girl from my story was definitely the exception, and not the rule. As I've posted earlier in this thread, I play with several other female gamers and they are kick ass gamers all around. The Red Hand of Doom game I run has an even 3 guys 3 girls split.I never even delved into the CRAZY part of the girl from the above. I know I've mentioned it on other posts, maybe worst DM, PC thread or whatever. The thing I learned is that, you can't reason with someone on that level of crazy. Attention mongers can't be convinced not to be attention mongers. You have to treat them as you would an internet troll; cut them off, stop feeding them the attention they crave(even negative attention).
If the person is a friend, or has some other redeeming qualities, maybe you can help figure out where the deficiency in attention is coming from (parents, school, etc), but the person in my above example had become nothing but a social parasite. She was not happy unless someone else was miserable.
Yeah, this is definitely not stereotypical anyone except a stereotypical crazy lady.
I think sometimes the crazy does inject itself into RP groups because, well, let's face it--gaming's a fringe activity. It's not mainstream, and it attracts smart people who like to engage in creative interplay like pretending to play knight who slays the mean dragon. Not saying that derisively--I'm a gamer after all, duh. But that kind of activity is going to attract some... differently minded people, some of whom do not have a healthy social background. So you're going to catch the crazy in gamer groups (and other non-mainstream fandoms) -- it doesn't make all gamers bad or crazy, it just that it's something we have to deal with.
It's a shame you had to go to the extreme of threatening a restraining order in your case, but if that's what it took... I once got latched onto by a needy crazy lady type--wasn't a gamer, but certainly within the geek circles I ran in. She didn't do the emotional blackmail thing, but she was unreliable, thoughtless, and thankless while being VERY demanding of my and others' time. Not going into the details, but after dealing with her for awhile I said, something along the lines of "You know what, I don't think our interests intersect, and I'm very busy right now, so I don't have any time to spend with you." I still feel mean for doing and saying it, but I think it was the best thing in the end. Sometimes with people like that you need to cut loose.
Maybe the lesson to take to gamerdom is that the first time you meet a member of the opposite sex gaming, don't assume they're all alike. Demand respect from everyone equally, and likewise show it, and you'll find the right group for you. Sometimes crazy, unpleasant people are crazy, unpleasant people and they are EVERYWHERE, but it's not healthy to assume all of a gender act that way.
Maybe the lesson to take to gamerdom is that the first time you meet a member of the opposite sex gaming, don't assume they're all alike. Demand respect from everyone equally, and likewise show it, and you'll find the right group for you. Sometimes crazy, unpleasant people are crazy, unpleasant people and they are EVERYWHERE, but it's not healthy to assume all of a gender act that way.
Very well said. With that, I think we've reached a pleasant conclusion to the topic.
+1 to almost everything Jess Door has added in the thread already. I had the good fortune for her to sit in on my home game for a little while, and while there were a few minorly awkward gender-related issues with the group (generally revolving around a male PC who was statted up as something of a gigolo), as near as I can tell they were largely solved. From my standpoint, it was a pleasure to see the girl gamer's PC be the party leader, rather than being relegated to some kind of sideshow attraction.
I like to think that her departure was from generally being busy and maybe from differences in gaming philosophy -- rather than from any lingering gender issues.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would just like to reiterate that replacing one's teeth with unknown magical objects is rarely advisable. And misuse of crown funds, even during the course of an approved investigation, is frowned upon.
That is all.
Mud, meet stick. :P