Which is still one of my main points. Why play a Paladin that shines one in a while if you can be a versatile character right for any situation while not even being outclassed when the other one shines for once in a while...
Well, because in most campaigns, evil opponents are fairly common. In mine, as I indicated above, it's about 65%. Usually, the Pally gets his use out the smites between rests because there's usually a mix of neutral monsters and bad guys around the next corner. Of course, campaigns will differ. A paladin will feel worthless in a campaign where nearly everything is neutral and will be the star of the show if the campaign is all about the war vs. evil.
So why choose pally? Well, of course, there's always the RP aspect. I've seen some really good pally players who do the pally code thing with humor and without being a jerk. For some, it's the big fights. When you're facing the awesome destructive force of a really evil big bad boss, like a Dragon, that time to shine, for some, is priceless. Nothing makes ya feel better than rolling up a bunch of attacks and adding +level (or lv*2) on top of all yer normal stuff. I've seen paladins take down big bads that would have taken longer to beat otherwise, and many times taking down a big bad evil dragon really fast is the key to avoiding deaths or even a wipe.
I think either way, in your average campaign, it's a fair tradeoff. You can either have spiffy damage abilities that work at whatever the situation is at hand, or you can have one that (in most campaigns) shines brighter during those really tough, iconic fights versus evil, but performs more baseline during other types of encounters. I think either is very viable...and the choice should be made depending on your tastes, and the flavor of the campaign you're playing in.
PS... I was thinking about the Litany you mentioned...which I never looked into before. DAAANG. Is there an evil version of that? Dang. I'm not sure I want that in my campaign. That's REALLY powerful!
I looked more into Litany spells... and here's a post from Mr. Jacobs...
Litany of Righteousness
Someone asked, "It is an Inquisitor and Paladin only spell, but a Inquisitor dont have a aura which is needed. Is it right a Inquisitor MUST multiclass to use it? "
James Jacobs Replied, "That spell should have probably have been made a cleric spell instead of an inquisitor spell. It's probably worth flagging as errata or something."
Soooo that would really provide more contrast for the flighting styles of Paladin vs. the Inquisitor... and make pally even more of a burst damage specialist against evil type compared to a more "good against everything" inquisitor. Thoughts?
PS... I was thinking about the Litany you mentioned...which I never looked into before. DAAANG. Is there an evil version of that? Dang. I'm not sure I want that in my...
Only holys get fanservice! So don't get your hopes up.
Dang. My rule with spells, certain combos and stuff, is that whatever the party uses, occasionally the baddies will use against the party... if its something that makes people scream "That's not fair!" it probably should be ruled out...
I'm not sure how many players would like a group with an antipaladin or two to use some evil version of those litanies on them. No save? Double damage? Daaang.
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I'm interested in making a new ranged character with divine powers and/or spells for PFS. Any advice on which would be (1) more combat effective, (2) tactically more interesting, and (3) better party support?
Hello.
I need some more info and then I will gove you some more info.Do you use traits? If yes, do you start with one or two?
What books are OK with your GM? Will you use UM and UC?
Do you play an Pathfinder Adventure Path or what kind if campaign will you play?
Will use use 15 PB, 20 PB or 25 PB or will you roll the dice?
Do you use dump stats?
Hi Zark, My questions are for PathFinder Society play so...
Traits? Yes, 2.
Books? CRB, APG, UC, and UM
Campaign? Pathfinder Society
Point Buy? 20 points
Dump Stats? as low as 7
Thanks, all, for the great info so far...
Hi Zark, My questions are for PathFinder Society play so...Traits? Yes, 2.
Books? CRB, APG, UC, and UM
Campaign? Pathfinder Society
Point Buy? 20 points
Dump Stats? as low as 7Thanks, all, for the great info so far...
Thanks for the answers.
First of. I wouldn't play a Archer Paladin. No because it's bad, but I don't like the idea of a Paladin archer. If playing an archer I would rather play an Inquisitor, ranger or bard.
If you decide to play a Inquisitor check out the Preacher Archetype. They get Determination. It replaces solo tactics.
Link: http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor/archetypes/paizo--- inquisitor-archetypes/preacher
Now here is my take on your questions.
1 more combat effective?
At higher levels the paladin. True, smite evil is limited to X uses / day, but as a Paladin you will won't focus on goons but on the BBEG. Also once you get spells and divine bond you can use these stuff when you are out of smite and you can use wands and scrolls. At higher levels you will have all the smite you need and you can get the "Silver smite bracelet" from the APG (it's a wondrous item).
Full BAB means more attacks per round and it also means you can pick many shot at level 7. One of the best feats out there if you are an archer. Deadly aim is great. With charisma bonus to hit the penalties is not a problem. If you are up against a monster with silly high AC? Just don't use it. If the monsters AC is average use Deadly aim even when not smiting (but perhaps not with rapid shot). Or as Treantmonk put it:
Deadly Aim. This is a great deal, -1 to hit for +2 damage is good, and it gets better as levels increase. Your arrows will be mighty painful at this point. You absolutely need this somewhere down the line. Certainly by 9th level if you haven't taken this yet, get it.
If you play a paladin get the trait that gives you UMD as a class skill. It's a great way for a Paladin to get more versatile. Get wands and cast "See invisibility, Heroism, Shield, Longstrider, etc, etc"
Extra channel and quicken channel are two fine feats. Check out with the DM if extra channel is fine. Do not pick channeling smite. ON the other hand you don't want to be the party healer so you might want to stay away from those feats.
Improved unarmed strike could be nice if you want to threaten when you use your bow.
Must be off to work. Post more later.
First of. I wouldn't play a Archer Paladin. No because it's bad, but I don't like the idea of a Paladin archer. If playing an archer I would rather play an Inquisitor, ranger or bard.
This!
Paladins are Heroes, Archers are sidekicks, simple as that.
If you want to play an archer then please please please go Inquisitor, otherwise you will be another one of these people who play mechanically rather than thematically, and thereby give Paladins a bad name.
First of. I wouldn't play a Archer Paladin. No because it's bad, but I don't like the idea of a Paladin archer. If playing an archer I would rather play an Inquisitor, ranger or bard.
This!
Paladins are Heroes, Archers are sidekicks, simple as that.
If you want to play an archer then please please please go Inquisitor, otherwise you will be another one of these people who play mechanically rather than thematically, and thereby give Paladins a bad name.
Trolling?
This!Paladins are Heroes, Archers are sidekicks, simple as that.
If you want to play an archer then please please please go Inquisitor, otherwise you will be another one of these people who play mechanically rather than thematically, and thereby give Paladins a bad name.
He has a valid point here. Paladins are meant to be the guys in the shiny fullplate with their shiny holy sword and taking down evil demons.
Most people that make archery Paladins don't do so because the flavour of the paladin (as limited as it is) but beacuse Archery gives a LOT of attacks and his smite applies to all attacks and thus making him a DPR monster against evil mobsters.
At higher levels the paladin. True, smite evil is limited to X uses / day, but as a Paladin you will won't focus on goons but on the BBEG. Also once you get spells and divine bond you can use these stuff when you are out of smite and you can use wands and scrolls. At higher levels you will have all the smite you need and you can get the "Silver smite bracelet" from the APG (it's a wondrous item).
This is exactly why I like the mechanics of the Inquisitor more. A battle in which the BBEG is (or at least something dangerous) you throw around your judgements, your bane weapon and even some quickened buffs.
But you aren't just really good against the BBEG but your "abilities" affect everyone in that battle.I think this is just made much better than the Paladin mechanics. They still look a lot AD&D 2nd to me... (not that I ever played a Paladin there... in truth I don't even remember how he was... besides those INSANE ability requirements and that he was a bit over the top)
Most people that make archery Paladins don't do so because the flavour of the paladin (as limited as it is) but beacuse Archery gives a LOT of attacks and his smite applies to all attacks and thus making him a DPR monster against evil mobsters.
Sorry, but you don't have any idea why "most people" make archery paladins. Could be they are dirty-rotten-anti-concept players, could be they think Solars are wicked awesome, or could be any number of other reasons.
You only know why YOU would make an archery paladin. Maybe you shouldn't try to game the system so much. :p
Most people that make archery Paladins don't do so because the flavour of the paladin (as limited as it is) but beacuse Archery gives a LOT of attacks and his smite applies to all attacks and thus making him a DPR monster against evil mobsters.
Sorry, but you don't have any idea why "most people" make archery paladins. Could be they are dirty-rotten-anti-concept players, could be they think Solars are wicked awesome, or could be any number of other reasons.
You only know why YOU would make an archery paladin. Maybe you shouldn't try to game the system so much. :p
Every thread I have seen about archery Paladins was full of the "Paladin smite rocks with Archery because you have so many attacks and it also goes on Manyshot".
Most even ended up with people showing that he was dealing significantly more damage than a THW Paladin and that TWF Paladins were mostly not too good because of the high Dex requirement and the MAD hungryness of the Paladin while having so few feats..
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So that left the striking opinion in me that most people do it because you are in the safe back (so you can afford not too high Con) while dealing insane damage via having the smite damage on so many arrows.
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Solars are awesome so you make an Archery Paladin? What?
Solars are NEUTRAL GOOD and they are Angels. You seem to mistake them with Archons. Archons are the outsider version of Paladins.
If you want something comparable maybe make a Aasimar Fighter Archer or maybe a Cleric Archer (that might come close in spirit to them). Or, even better if the DM allows, a Half Celestial Fighter or Cleric Archer.
But trying to imitate a Solar with a Paladin is somewhat awkward.
Solars are awesome so you make an Archery Paladin? What?
Solars are NEUTRAL GOOD and they are Angels. You seem to mistake them with Archons. Archons are the outsider version of Paladins.
If you want something comparable maybe make a Aasimar Fighter Archer or maybe a Cleric Archer (that might come close in spirit to them). Or, even better if the DM allows, a Half Celestial Fighter or Cleric Archer.But trying to imitate a Solar with a Paladin is somewhat awkward.
Angels can be of any good alignment. Description section, second paragraph, first sentence.
Angels can be of any good alignment. Description section, second paragraph, first sentence.
Solars are awesome so you make an Archery Paladin? What?
Solars are NEUTRAL GOOD and they are Angels. You seem to mistake them with Archons. Archons are the outsider version of Paladins.
If you want something comparable maybe make a Aasimar Fighter Archer or maybe a Cleric Archer (that might come close in spirit to them). Or, even better if the DM allows, a Half Celestial Fighter or Cleric Archer.But trying to imitate a Solar with a Paladin is somewhat awkward.
Why does Paizo hide this somewhere? Why not make the creater (any) Good in its description so that people see it? *sigh*
But how does this make them more Paladinish? The concept of a Paladin is not really that of an Angel... so we are still at the point that some Solars might share your alignment but they generally don't. Its like saying Elves are so paladinish because they can also be Lawful Good...
Archons still might come close... but still not really.
The concept of the SLAY ALL EVIL and YOU MAY NOT DO EVIL is rather unique for the Paladin crowds...
How does this make them more Paladinish? The concept of a Paladin is not really that of an Angel...
Archons still might come close... but still not really.The concept of the SLAY ALL EVIL and YOU MAY NOT DO EVIL is rather unique for the Paladin crowds...
I'd bet that Solars of Iomedae act almost if not exactly like paladins. Your claim was that Solars are only neutral good. They are not, they can be any good. Including Lawful Good, the "paladin" alignment.
I'd bet that Solars of Iomedae act almost if not exactly like paladins. Your claim was that Solars are only neutral good. They are not, they can be any good. Including Lawful Good, the "paladin" alignment.How does this make them more Paladinish? The concept of a Paladin is not really that of an Angel...
Archons still might come close... but still not really.The concept of the SLAY ALL EVIL and YOU MAY NOT DO EVIL is rather unique for the Paladin crowds...
Thats your emphasis on that thematic. Not even Archons act like Paladins even though they are Lawful Good outsiders. (also read my edited post above)
But how does this make them more Paladinish? The concept of a Paladin is not really that of an Angel...
Archons still might come close... but still not really.The concept of the SLAY ALL EVIL and YOU MAY NOT DO EVIL is rather unique for the Paladin crowds...
It has nothing to do with being paladinish? Solars are one of D&D's archetypical examples of "shiny holy divine being shooting lots of arrows that kill you dead". Why does it offends you so much that someone might use a Solar as inspiration for a divine archer?
I think what you're not quite grasping is that we're not all you.
But how does this make them more Paladinish? The concept of a Paladin is not really that of an Angel...
Archons still might come close... but still not really.The concept of the SLAY ALL EVIL and YOU MAY NOT DO EVIL is rather unique for the Paladin crowds...
It has nothing to do with being paladinish? Solars are one of D&D's archetypical examples of "shiny holy divine being shooting lots of arrows that kill you dead". Why does it offends you so much that someone might use a Solar as inspiration for a divine archer?
I think what you're not quite grasping is that we're not all you.
Now you almost got it. A Solar is a Divine Archer (or Melee type, depends on what he uses actually'). He is not a Paladin. A Paladin has a Codex he has to stick to and slay all evil stuff and never do any trickery things and be the archong of uber lawfulness. A Solar doesn't.
I would really never have thought that someone might wanna be a Solar when he is playing a Paladin. Lol.
I would really never have thought that someone might wanna be a Solar when he is playing a Paladin. Lol.
Maybe you never did, but there are plenty of others that have. Just because their ideas differ from yours don't make them wrong, in this case. There's no RAW either way that says a paladin can't emulate a Solar's behavior, because there is no RAW that dictates exactly how a Solar behaves.
Maybe you never did, but there are plenty of others that have. Just because their ideas differ from yours don't make them wrong, in this case. There's no RAW either way that says a paladin can't emulate a Solar's behavior, because there is no RAW that dictates exactly how a Solar behaves.
I would really never have thought that someone might wanna be a Solar when he is playing a Paladin. Lol.
Oh the good old sentence "it doesn't make them wrong". Sometimes it just does. Sometimes people happen to be wrong, even if they might dislike it. Personal freedom does not include the right to be always right.
A Paladin can't use trickery. A Solar can.
A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
A solar doesn't need to respect any legitimate authority if its in its way (mostly in the way of its quest), doesn't have to act with honour (it can cheat and lie if its necessary). Plus he doesn't have to punish those who harm or threaten innocents (which could be devestating for his mission if he was discovered easily because he was helping innocents against some mooks of the BBEG).
And this codex is the BASIS of the class Paladin. Everything around it (the smite etc pp) are just fluff.
Maybe you never did, but there are plenty of others that have. Just because their ideas differ from yours don't make them wrong, in this case. There's no RAW either way that says a paladin can't emulate a Solar's behavior, because there is no RAW that dictates exactly how a Solar behaves.
I would really never have thought that someone might wanna be a Solar when he is playing a Paladin. Lol.Oh the good old sentence "it doesn't make them wrong". Sometimes it just does. Sometimes people happen to be wrong, even if they might dislike it. Personal freedom does not include the right to be always right.
You're taking the general guidelines of a solar and using them as hard fact. The fact of the matter is different gods are going to put different restrictions on their angels, and that makes it completely reasonable for some of them to follow the same guidelines as paladins. And, in the end, what a person chooses for their inspiration is their right.
Secondly, an archer paladin has less need for con than an inquisitor, so the paladin isn't really that mad. And just as the inquisitor can get a stat boosting item for wisdom so can the paladin for charisma. Funny how that works, no?
If you don't mind reading you will find a Cha boosting item on the Paladin. But thanks for reminding me.
You're taking the general guidelines of a solar and using them as hard fact. The fact of the matter is different gods are going to put different restrictions on their angels, and that makes it completely reasonable for some of them to follow the same guidelines as paladins. And, in the end, what a person chooses for their inspiration is their right.
Aaaah... now I get it!
All those Paladins just want to be Erinyes!
You are just taking the general guidelines of Devils and Erinyes and use them as a hard fact. It is perfectly reasonable for some of them to follow the same guidelines as paladins.
Still Personal Freedom doesn't make you right. And people can do whatever they want in their groups. I am in no position to influence that at all.
But trying to explain all those "Archery Paladin" Threads here with people trying to be Solars... lol... this is somehow approaching compulsionary nerdism for me ;)
more combat effective part 2)
Inquisitor obviously will have an edge when dealing with non evil foes, but then on the other hand if you don't have a plan B it's not really a class problem.
Since this is for Pathfinder Society the VAST majority of the foes are going to be evil. Those that are not are probably animals, aberrations, Constructs and summons. Then there are the very few neutral villains, not many of them. I Guess the encounters that will be most problematic will be those vs. Constructs. So get some Adamantine arrows and some scrolls or a wand with versatile weapon. Or use a big blunt weapon in two hands or cast spells or use tangle foot bags or whatever.
One more thing. Unlike Bane, smite by pass DR. ALL DR even slashing, etc. and unlike bane damage ALL smite damage multiply on a critical hit.
(2) tactically more interesting.
Playing tactically is a matter of who the player are. But over all I say the Inquisitor is probably tactically more interesting if you by "more interesting" mean more versatile.
(3) better party support?
It depends on the rest of the party. The Paladin can be the party face and is a great healer. Let's face it healing in battle is not a great idea unless you heal much (heal or mass heal) or if it only cost a swift or move action. A 12 level paladin using LOH heal average 21 HP and can remove stun. Seriously, how many spells and abilities can remove stun. And the mercies are cumulative. A 12 level Inquisitor can fast heal 5 HP / round. Pathfinder is balanced around 4 rounds per combat so that's 20 HP and activating fast healing means there is some other judgment not active. LOH is far better. and it's a switch action when you heal yourself. You won't heal other using LOH. You will only use LOH during battle because of the raider effects. True, being able to neutralize poison, Sickened, Nauseated, etc is circumstantial, but when you need it you do need it and how many clerics prepare neutralize poison, etc?
Paladin auras: Well that's one reason I don't like Paladin archers. if you are 20 ft away how is your auras going typo benefit the rest of the party fighting that BBEG? Not that you need to be 20 ft away, but you know what I mean. Aura of Justice: The best buff in the game. Not even a bard can match this. If you play a Divine Hunter
you will lose this ability.
The Inquisitor? Well where should I stop.
More spells per day, better spells, full caster elevl, spontaneous caster, more skills, more class skills, Monster Lore, Detect Alignment, Track. His a bit like a divine bard. If the party has a jack of all trade Play paladin if not play an Inquisitor.
If damage is what you seek, play a Paladin but remember try to make it versatile. Pick Use magic device as a class skills as a trait and have a plan B. Seriously, you could start with 13 str and just go dex and char. Paladins are NOT MAD, but for a paladin I'd probably start something like this:
Str 14, Dex 16 (18), Con 12, Int 10, Wis 7, Chr 15. Paladin s have d10 HD and Inquisitor have d8HD so paladin don't need as much con.
Really you don't need str at higher levels and once you hit level 2 wisdom is never going to be a problem. Charisma to all saves and immunities. Since you are going to play an archer you may even start with 10 con and boost wis to 9. Don't dump int. You want to max UMD, and have some ranks in diplomacy, some knowledge skills and perhaps perception and sense motive.
Gloves of storing, rod of quicken spell and the feat still spell is good at higher levels. Or just pick quick draw.
Do you want more feedback?
Post more later. Must go to work
But trying to explain all those "Archery Paladin" Threads here with people trying to be Solars... lol... this is somehow approaching compulsionary nerdism for me ;)
No one (well, maybe except you) have actually tried this.
A few, however, have suggested that cool images of divine archers could be one of many reasons why some people like the idea of a paladin archer.
But to sum up the original point: Every time you use the term "most players", you are probably wrong (unless you can provide impartial statistical data to back up your claim, anyway).
Inquisitor isn't really a buff class, with the exception of some spells.
All the Inquisitor abilities only affect/bennefit the Inquisitor
The Paladin on the other hand have abilities that affect his allies. In fact a lot of the is designed to help others.
Mechanically the Inquisitor is a selfish class, the Paladin is not, that is why I like the Preacher Archetyp.
Also, most (if not all) teamwork feat are 'less than useful' if you are an archer.
The Inquisitor? Well where should I stop.
More spells per day, better spells, full caster level, spontaneous caster, more skills, more class skills, Monster Lore, Detect Alignment, Track. His a bit like a divine bard.
Well, let me rephrase that. The spells are perhaps not better, but the spell list is far bigger and far more versatile. Also, a spell list with many spells means you can use more wands. On the other hand at higher level a Paladin with UMD can use any wand.
better party support?
If the Paladin or anyone else in the party has craft wand spells like Lesser Restoration and Bless Weapon are very nice, since both are first level spells.
BAB/Saves/HD: The only category where the Paladin definitely wins out. Unfortunately, it's a little too late to make up the difference. The only thing that happens here is that the Inquisitor has less feat access due to BAB. You rarely care about the difference of d10 vs d8 HD and, since you're able to put points in all of your stats that affect saves, you'll be relatively ok vs. the Paladin here as an Inquisitor.
I would say this is wrong. in 3.x the charisma boosting item was a cloak and paladin used wis to cast spells. Now all a paladin needs is char and dex if you are an archer or char and str if you are a melee paladin. Now a paladin can get an headband of char AND a cloak of res. Unlike the Inquisitor's Judgments the char bonus to saves is always on. So no need to activate it and the paladin is not limited to rounds per day.
A little too late? At level 2 he will have Divine grace. At level 3 he will have Aura of courage and divine health. And all these are always on. No need to deal with resource management. And the Paladin just keep on getting immunities.
" since you're able to put points in all of your stats that affect saves, you'll be relatively ok" Well the Paladin only needs char and dex. Since he is an archer he could theoretically start with con 8. I wouldn't, but con 10 is indeed and option. Str? Well 13 could be an option. I would probably start with 14, but 13 is valid if the campaign focus on evil foes.
BAB, a little too late to make up the difference?
Combat effective pt 3:
BAB is always on. No need to deal with resource management or activating your BAB. Better BAB means more damage, because you hit more easily, but it also means more attacks. At level 7 a Paladin have two attacks per round and if the players is smart the Paladin also have many shot. That's 3 attack per round with no penalty. Even if some encounters during one day is vs. non evil foes overall the Paladin will out damage the Inquisitor. If Paladin faces low or medium AC foes like animals and other creatures he can also use deadly aim (and rapid shot). The Paladins Damage bonus applies to all arrows when using many shot. And it just keeps on getting worse. At level 8 the damage bonus from deadly aim kicks in even more.
My questions are for PathFinder Society play so...
Traits? Yes, 2.
Books? CRB, APG, UC, and UM
Campaign? Pathfinder Society
Point Buy? 20 points
Dump Stats? as low as 7Thanks, all, for the great info so far...
Hi again.
How did it turn out?It would be great if you like to share your build or class. I think any of the two classes will be fine and provide you with a lot of fun.
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My questions are for PathFinder Society play so...
Traits? Yes, 2.
Books? CRB, APG, UC, and UM
Campaign? Pathfinder Society
Point Buy? 20 points
Dump Stats? as low as 7Thanks, all, for the great info so far...
Hi again.
How did it turn out?
It would be great if you like to share your build or class. I think any of the two classes will be fine and provide you with a lot of fun.
Hi Zark, thanks for asking I have not finalized, but I am looking at the following...
PALADIN - Human
STR 12, DEX 16+2, CON 12, INT 13, WIS 8, CHR 14
Add Dex +1 at lvl 4&8
The Int 13 is for unsanctioned knowledge for some spell variety and more skills... acrobatics, escape artist, perception, diplomacy, UMD.
Also, the higher int is also for RP, although RP'ing a low int character is fun also.
Alternatively for stats, I am looking at:
STR 14, DEX 16+2, CON 12, INT 8, WIS 10, CHR 14
Add Dex +1 at lvl 4&8
Deity: Sarenrae... scimitar as backup weapon for flavor
INQUISITOR - Human
Preacher archetype
STR 14, DEX 16+2, CON 14, INT 10, WIS 14, CHR 8... or...
STR 14, DEX 16+2, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 14, CHR 7... or...
Add Dex +1 at lvl 4&8
Deity: Abadar - Travel domain
Alignment: not sure yet
I think worshiping Abadar would be fun... like being a bill collector... "my employer wants his two dollars, sir..."
Thanks for the suggestion of the Preacher archetype... I also thought that the inquisitor's solo tactics would go to waste with a ranged character.
I'll probably create both these characters for PFS and alternate as needed.
Cool, "Unsanctioned knowledge" I have totally missed that feat. Very nice.
What traits are you going to pick?
I think worshiping Abadar would be fun... like being a bill collector... "my employer wants his two dollars, sir..."!
LOL. Very cool.
edit:All builds look good. As for the Paldin build:
STR 14, DEX 16+2, CON 12, INT 8, WIS 10, CHR 14
I would swap stats for Int and wis, but bonus no penalty to wis isn't bad. It's I just, like skills.