Deadly Aim and Firearms

[Mad Beetle]

Hello everyone.
Me, and a another player have had a bit of an argument about the rules regarding the feat Deadly Aim and using it with firearms.

Now the rules are saying that:

PRD wrote:

Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target's touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.

I have bolded what stated the argument.

He reads the rules as this: When using Deadly Aim, guns target full AC, not Touch AC, not even within the first range increment.

I read it: You can use Deadly Aim and target Touch AC within the first range increment with guns.

Who is right? Is there an official ruling or clarification anywhere i can point to?

Thank you for your time.

[Maxximilius]

Deadly Aim doesn't work on touch attacks.
Firearms hit touch AC, but aren't considered as doing touch attacks for the purpose of Deadly Aim. This doesn't mean you target full AC with Deadly Aim.

Thus, you are right : Deadly Aim allows you to deal more damage and you can still hit touch AC with a firearm.

This is one of some lines of the firearms rules that had to be rewritten a bit during the Gunslinger playtest, since the fact Deadly Aim didn't work with touch attacks was unintentional, and at first overlooked.

[Martin Sheaffer]

I would have to go with: "You can use Deadly Aim and target Touch AC within the first range increment with guns." due to the last sentence of the description of Deadly Aim (The bonus damage does not apply to touch attacks or effects that do not deal hit point damage.).

Early fire arms don't count as a touch attack for deadly aim therefore the last sentence does rule out it's use. Just my thoughts on it and nothing official but that's how I would rule.

[Mad Beetle]

Thanks for the answers, i hope this thread can convince him.

[SirPeter]

So, is there any official answer for this question?

[Bronnwynn]

The RAW is pretty clear cut.

[SirPeter]

?

[StreamOfTheSky]

Officially, you are correct, OP.

But the gun rules are stupid and broken and shouldn't target touch AC...period. So if I were in your group, I'd be backing up the other guy. Of course, I don't play by strict RAW when it's dumb.

[YogoZuno]

I agree, the RAW is clearcut - Deadly Aim works with firearms in the first range increment, despite the firearm attacking Touch AC. The only reason for saying the attack doesn't count as a Touch attack is so that Deadly Aim still works. Deadly Aim was originally written prior to the firearm rules, and was (presumably) ruled to not work with touch attacks to avoid adding extra unwarranted damage to spells, especially when said spells are already fairly likely to hit, even with a reduced to hit bonus.

[Mojorat]

SirPeter wrote:

So, is there any official answer for this question?

Deadly aim works with firearms they still target touch ac.

[Nefreet]

SirPeter wrote:

So, is there any official answer for this question?

Yes. The bolded section in the very first post.

[Selina Dex Parnell]

StreamOfTheSky wrote:

Officially, you are correct, OP.

But the gun rules are stupid and broken and shouldn't target touch AC...period. So if I were in your group, I'd be backing up the other guy. Of course, I don't play by strict RAW when it's dumb.

Have you seen what even an early gun does to armor at a close range? It shreds right through it. Pretty accurate in my opinion, and no more broken than magic is.