I'm thinking about making a gunslinger for an upcoming campaign. I've only glanced at the class thus far. Lets say I want to go for sheer damage output. What's the best build for this?
Lets say level 20 so I know what to build to. Multi and/or prestige class is acceptable
20 pt buy
All Paizo material is acceptable
Don't worry too much about gear unless it specifically has to do with the damage
What does my wonderful Paizo community think?
The best gunslinger build out there for pure damage seems to be Archer Fighter.
But seriously, I've heard Pistolero is quite good. You want Rapid Reload as your first feat. One thing I've noticed (and I've been looking at them a lot lately) is that they are mostly status inflicting. Due to the problems with reloading, they aren't great with damage.
If you want to focus on some social skills, take one level of infiltrator inquisitor. Take the Conversion domain. You are now adding 2*mWis to bluff / diplomacy.
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The best gunslinger build out there for pure damage seems to be Archer Fighter.
But seriously, I've heard Pistolero is quite good. You want Rapid Reload as your first feat. One thing I've noticed (and I've been looking at them a lot lately) is that they are mostly status inflicting. Due to the problems with reloading, they aren't great with damage.
If you want to focus on some social skills, take one level of infiltrator inquisitor. Take the Conversion domain. You are now adding 2*mWis to bluff / diplomacy.
Not great with damage ?
Pistoleros TWFing with double-barreled pistols don't seem to agree with you. Also, I'd be more inclined to get Quick Draw intead of Rapid Reload. Primarily because reloading one-handed pistols is quick enough in most cases with alchemical cartridges.
The best gunslinger build out there for pure damage seems to be Archer Fighter.
But seriously, I've heard Pistolero is quite good. You want Rapid Reload as your first feat. One thing I've noticed (and I've been looking at them a lot lately) is that they are mostly status inflicting. Due to the problems with reloading, they aren't great with damage.
If you want to focus on some social skills, take one level of infiltrator inquisitor. Take the Conversion domain. You are now adding 2*mWis to bluff / diplomacy.
Not great with damage ?
Pistoleros TWFing with double-barreled pistols don't seem to agree with you. Also, I'd be more inclined to get Quick Draw intead of Rapid Reload. Primarily because reloading one-handed pistols is quick enough in most cases with alchemical cartridges.
From my understanding, they only get great at that after level 13, when they can't misfire. Otherwise shooting that many shots is just asking for a misfire.
Plus that's a drain on money :)
I'm thinking about making a gunslinger for an upcoming campaign. I've only glanced at the class thus far. Lets say I want to go for sheer damage output. What's the best build for this?
Lets say level 20 so I know what to build to. Multi and/or prestige class is acceptable
20 pt buy
All Paizo material is acceptable
Don't worry too much about gear unless it specifically has to do with the damageWhat does my wonderful Paizo community think?
Wizard Spellslinger 1/ Sorc 19
or for more flavor
Wizard Spellslinger 1/ Witch 19
How do you like shooting a scorching ray or a Ray of bla at a +7 DC and have a 19-20 x3 crit. At 20 look what a x3 crit on a Polar Ray would do... sick!
How do you like shooting a scorching ray or a Ray of bla at a +7 DC and have a 19-20 x3 crit. At 20 look what a x3 crit on a Polar Ray would do... sick!
An average of what, 200 damage? And 3d4 dex damage? Not all that impressive IMO.
An average of what, 200 damage? And 3d4 dex damage? Not all that impressive IMO.
How do you like shooting a scorching ray or a Ray of bla at a +7 DC and have a 19-20 x3 crit. At 20 look what a x3 crit on a Polar Ray would do... sick!
How about a Ray of Enfeeblement that does 3d6+15 dex damage on a crit. As a first lvl spell.
The combo I have worked up is a Musket Master with 4 lvls of Monk of the Sacred Mountain wielding a Double Hackbut.
You get rapid reload for free, reload as though it were a one haned firearm (move action w/ RR), take the Snap Shot feat tree & specialize in dead shot with the signature deed feat. Reload on ammo with Secret Stash Deed feat, and the alchemical cartirdges make it a free action to reload.
Full attacks every round with a 2d12 base damage and 50 ft touch attack range. The monk levels just prevent you from needing to brace.
oh, and note, they even specify that changing the size of a firearm usually doesn't change how many hands it takes to wield, so talk to the DM about an even bigger gun!
How about a Ray of Enfeeblement that does 3d6+15 dex damage on a crit. As a first lvl spell.
Uh... what Ray of Enfeeblement is this? The one I am looking at on the SRD does strength damage, which is minimum 1 (IE, not helpless). That would be quite a spell... less than 10% of the time. Thats the issue; a crit build which fires one attack a turn and threatens on 19-20 is not impressive. Your typical Wizard should have won the fight by then.
The Musket Master build just about negates the low crit chance problem.
When using Dead Shot Deed against most opponents, you are all but guaranteed 3 hits (base 6d12) and your total chance to roll at least one crit threat is about 15% and only requires one confirmation roll. Plus, since nothing states that the crit only applies to the additional damage from the individual attack, that's a 15% chance for 24d12 (with the x4 crit mod).
Add in the spell Gravity Bow, which despite it's name is only limited to projectiles in the text, and your damage increases as though the weapon were one size larger. Now, I wasn't sure how the 2d12 would size up, so I used a program, or rather 2 just to be safe. Both Combat Manager and PCGen used this size-up scheme:
2d12 to 4d12 to 8d8.
Doing the math, avg base damage is 36+Dex (medium), 72+Dex (large), 96+Dex (huge)
On a crit (15% threat) that increases to 144+Dex (medium), 288+Dex (large), 394+Dex (huge)
Now Depending on your DM, you may not be able to get or wield a large Double Hackbut and so will only be able to apply the Gravity Bow spell to amplify your damage, but that still puts you in the large weapon damage range which gives you well in excess of the massive damage threshold for just about anything on a normal hit using Dead Shot.
Hint: you'll need guns, lots of guns.
Hint: you'll need guns, lots of guns.
No actually, just lots of alchemical cartridges, paper cartridges in particular. These, in combination with Rapid Reload reduce reloading a one handed firearm to a free action. And alchemical cartridges are and freely available to any character who has the Secret Stash Deed feat.
Hello full round attacks!
And since the Musket Master already reloads two handed firearms as though they were one handed, this allows the Gunslinger to make use of bigger, more powerful weapons. :)
The Musket Master build just about negates the low crit chance problem.
When using Dead Shot Deed against most opponents, you are all but guaranteed 3 hits (base 6d12) and your total chance to roll at least one crit threat is about 15% and only requires one confirmation roll. Plus, since nothing states that the crit only applies to the additional damage from the individual attack, that's a 15% chance for 24d12 (with the x4 crit mod).
Add in the spell Gravity Bow, which despite it's name is only limited to projectiles in the text, and your damage increases as though the weapon were one size larger. Now, I wasn't sure how the 2d12 would size up, so I used a program, or rather 2 just to be safe. Both Combat Manager and PCGen used this size-up scheme:
2d12 to 4d12 to 8d8.Doing the math, avg base damage is 36+Dex (medium), 72+Dex (large), 96+Dex (huge)
On a crit (15% threat) that increases to 144+Dex (medium), 288+Dex (large), 394+Dex (huge)Now Depending on your DM, you may not be able to get or wield a large Double Hackbut and so will only be able to apply the Gravity Bow spell to amplify your damage, but that still puts you in the large weapon damage range which gives you well in excess of the massive damage threshold for just about anything on a normal hit using Dead Shot.
Gravity Bow most certainly does not work on firearms.
Gravity bow significantly increases the weight and density of arrows or bolts fired from your bow or crossbow the instant before they strike their target and then return them to normal a few moments later. Any arrow fired from a bow or crossbow you are carrying when the spell is cast deals damage as if one size larger than it actually is.
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20 pt buy
All Paizo material is acceptable
Don't worry too much about gear unless it specifically has to do with the damage
Human Gunslinger (Pistolero)
12 Str, 18 Dex (+2 race), 12 Con, 8 Int, 16 Wis, 8 Cha1st- Deadly Aim, Point Blank Shot
3rd- Two-Weapon Fighting
4th- +1 Dex; Rapid Shot
5th- Rapid Reload (Double Barrelled Pistol)
7th- Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8th- +1 Dex; Precise Shot
9th- Clustered Shots
11th- Signature Deed (Up Close and Deadly)
12th- +1 Dex; Signature Deed (Targeting; use torso shots to increase critical threat range to 19-20)
13th- Improved Critical (Double Barrelled Pistol; with the Targeting deed, your double barrelled pistols' critical stats are 17-20/x4)*
15th- Weapon Focus (Double Barrelled Pistol)
16th- +1 Dex; Snap Shot (Double Barrelled Pistol)
17th- Improved Snap Shot (Double Barrelled Pistol)
19th- Combat Reflexes
20th- +1 Dex; Greater Snap Shot (Double Barrelled Pistol)
Weapon cords on both double barrelled pistols are essential for reloading until you can afford a glove of storing, after which you only need one pistol on a weapon cord (which lets you switch to melee combat more easily). Invest in +x distance double barrelled pistols ASAP to increase the range increment (for touch AC). Feats can be re-ordered somewhat to suit your taste; you may want to consider switching out Greater Snap Shot for Sword and Pistol (and Clustered Shots for Weapon Finesse; rapier is probably your melee weapon choice in this case). Also, consider maxing out Use Magical Device and getting a wizard to supply you with a wand of reloading hands (and/or having them craft a custom X per day wondrous item).
*- I haven't done the math, but it might be interesting to see the breakdown of Targeting vs. Dead Shot; Dead Shot may very well end up causing more damage than firing both barrels at -4.
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This is a character that i am making to play on my next game. I was really disappointed with the gunslinger class and them i came up with this build. Its kind of the "be-all-you-can-be gunslinger". It hits pretty hard when it lands its sneak atqs and has some nice support abilitys. I am pretty sure its all legal but if there is a problem let me know and plz point the oficial ruling. I believe this guy would make one of the strangest sights ever seen on a battlefield.
High fantasy point buy.
Double Trouble Al
Human
Musket Master Gunslinger 3 / Preservationeist Vivisectionist Alchemist 7 / Master Chymist 1
Str 9
Dx 20
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 7
Traits:
Reactionary
Some other...
Feats:
Point Blank Shot
Improved Initiative
Rapid Shot
Weapon Focus (musket)
Two weapon Fighting
Snap Shot
Sword and Pistol
(next feats would be Improved Snap Shot, Prescise Shot, Combat Reflexes and Deadly Aim)
Discoveries:
Feral Mutagen
Vestigial Arm
Vestigial Arm
Deeds:
Quick Clear
Fast Musket
Basically you are a four armed beast who shots with two muskets every round, have sneak atq and summom mosters to your help. Making the sneak atqs in lower lvls will be more tricky, winning iniciative helps, if you have a spellcaster friend improved invisibility is your dream come true, the Stag Lord's Helm also helps.
After Sword and Pistol it gets easier, you only have to assume flanking position since you always threaten with your bite attack. Improved Snap Shot makes it even more sweet.
The ideia is to run dex mutagem on all the combats(the dip in Master Chymist is for the 2 more mutagens everyday). You only have one grit point that you can not spend. On a normal combat i would open with all the sneak atqs that i could pull off with a summoned monster already casted to help control the battle field. On later lvls i would flank with the summoned monster.
The main problem with the build is that it takes a while for it to come together. But i still havent found anything with more flavor or more fun to play.
The combo I have worked up is a Musket Master with 4 lvls of Monk of the Sacred Mountain wielding a Double Hackbut.
You get rapid reload for free, reload as though it were a one haned firearm (move action w/ RR), take the Snap Shot feat tree & specialize in dead shot with the signature deed feat. Reload on ammo with Secret Stash Deed feat, and the alchemical cartirdges make it a free action to reload.
Full attacks every round with a 2d12 base damage and 50 ft touch attack range. The monk levels just prevent you from needing to brace.
oh, and note, they even specify that changing the size of a firearm usually doesn't change how many hands it takes to wield, so talk to the DM about an even bigger gun!
Ooh, I like that. Drawback even with Gunsmith Double Hackbutt is expensive (4K becomes 2K to craft). So not viable till 3rd level.
Plus, even with Monk of SM, you take -4 hit (from not being braced). Although, since capacity is 2, you get 2 attacks before needing to reload. Combine with vital strike?
Gravity Bow most certainly does not work on firearms.
Gravity bow significantly increases the weight and density of arrows or bolts fired from your bow or crossbow the instant before they strike their target and then return them to normal a few moments later. Any arrow fired from a bow or crossbow you are carrying when the spell is cast deals damage as if one size larger than it actually is.
Well, it does seem I stand corrected on Gravity Bow. I normally take care to read for anything that would trump overpowered assumptions, so thank you. Still, the oversized weapon is still a viable (if expensive) option.
As for Starbuck_II, I would not use Vital Strike, but would invest in Signature Deed (Dead Shot). The benefit is that you get your full alotment of attacks, multiplying your base damage for each hit, which will normally hit 3+ times against a good Touch AC of 16, and 2+ times against a Touch of 21, and you now have 4 chances to roll a Crit, which multiplies TOTAL base weapon damage with just ONE confirmation roll, boosting Crit chance to 15% vs your normal 5%. Furthermore, this still only uses one bullet, which is cool as ammo can be expensive.
Also, read carefully, Lightning Reload (deed) specifies a limit of one free action reload a round, but the entry in Alchemical Paper Cartridges has no such limit if you qualify for the free action reload, so if you treat the free action reloads as you would drawing and nocking arrows from a quiver for a bow, you can get your full attack.
One thing about the Double Hackbut, grab an immovable rod and add a pintle mount on it. Now instead of having to drag around a cart as a full round option you can place the immovable rod as a move action.
Also don't forget the value of alchemy, since you have to have a few ranks don't forget to spend some of your free time making things like smokesticks and fuse grenades.
Also siege weapons, they might not be useful normally but they are light enough to carry in a bag of holding, Bombs ignore the hardness of stone and wood some sometimes it might be handy to have a few stuffed into your bag of holding just in case.
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you can't use deadly aim with a gun slinger though... it says you can't use it with a touch attack... guns are touch attack
And again... *yawn*
Quote UC: "Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target’s touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim."