|
Hello All,
I am currently running Carrion Crown and recently we ran into a hurdle - specifically haunts.
The party consists of a Rogue, a Magus and an Inquisitor. Now the game play is fast and there is good chemistry between the players, but I have my concerns with no "positive" energy user in the party, but the players don't want to play with any more than 3 players.
So my question is this:
"Can the Carrion Crown AP work without a Cleric/Paladin in the party and if it can, what are of the pitfalls, and possible fixes to make sure that the party can survive?"
I should point out that an addition of a cleric (NPC of otherwise) would partly fix the problem, but it doesn't solve it entirely. I also don't want to fall into the trap of the NPC saving the day all the time (which becomes a suck for the "real" players).
Surely the AP wasn't designed with the presumption that the players must have at least one cleric. That's dumb design otherwise.
Any suggestions would be great.
I am running the game now, and con damage/drain, energy drain, and other bad stuff make not having a healer(more for status effects) not a good idea. I would advise them to push their saves if they insist on doing a 3 man.
You don't have to have a cleric. I like Oracles also.
What your group can do is have someone focus on UMD, and keep scrolls handy. Potions and wands also help.
Stuff
I'm still going through Harrowstone but I think that not having a cleric would probably greatly enhance the horrible powerlessness that horror preys on. My party of 6 is not quite as susceptible ;).
One way to deal with the Haunts could be to add more Haunt siphons into the game. Maybe 1.5 siphons for each dangerous haunt. That could mean that some Haunts aren't destroyed and they might need to prioritize which ones need to be destroyed that way vs. putting the spirits to rest (i'm looking at you Furnace).
Hope that's some help. Good luck!
Edit: APs out-of-box are designed for a fairly balanced party. If there's going to be something missing (magical healing) that is something that will have to be taken into account by you and you'll probably have to adjust the campaign some.
I am running it right now, as well, and my group is in #2. They got through #1 without a cleric pretty well (party: soulknife, alchemist and bard). However, when they got to #2, the bard decided they needed some healer-type and switched to Oracle (Heavens).
I still contend they could have handled it but in part of #2 there is a big section with a TON of Con Damage/Drain. Sooo...who knows.
|
spoilage:
"Can the Carrion Crown AP work without a Cleric/Paladin in the party and if it can, what are of the pitfalls, and possible fixes to make sure that the party can survive?"
Of course they can. My party doesn't have a cleric (let alone a paladin) and it's working out great. There's plenty of Holy Water and Haunt Siphons around for them to deal with the haunts. They have an inquisitor, he can pick up CLW, and in the beginning, that should be enough, along with a few wands.
|
|
I should also note that the group looked around the grounds briefly and went straight to level 2 (via the balcony with the stairs at the side).
I guess I was looking for something I can give them which isn't an obvious "helping hand" to make things easier.
|
Actually this is something I am wondering about as well. My group just lost our fourth, we aren't replacing her, and we are going to three man Carrion Crown. We currently have a Paladin, a Magus/Rogue, and I'm playing a Gunslinger. Would this be a good group to run with, or should I go ahead and make a Cleric or Oracle? Just curious what everyone thinks.
Paladin AND a Cleric would make it too easy. I imagine the Paladin will soon enough become a pain in the neck for the DM, as he'll have to specially tailor the encounters in order to challenge him or encounters will be a cakewalk.
Oracle is an intresting class, and a Lore Oracle would have been GREAT during the first chapter, but skip the Life Oracle.
I'm running a two PC party, summoner and inquisitor. They're in Trial of the Beast at the moment.
I suspect the lack of cleric will be more pronounced of an issue later on but I figure I can head most of that off by hiding more healing potions and/or wands in loot stashes.
Lack of a cleric shouldn't be that big of an issue in HoH. My group got through it just fine without one, though admittedly theirs was a large and at times varied company. The adventure is well padded with healing loot, and Holy Water is not hard to come by. Also, if the group is small there's always the option of recruiting an ally. I had Kendra assisting my group for a bit (they were also short on arcane casters), and you could always see about the local Temple sending along an Acolyte if things are looking truly dire.
|
|
I've seen the words Holy Water used a bit here in this thread, so I'll re-post my question here:
In the rules, a Haunt can only be affected by Positive Energy either through the use of spells that inflict that energy type (i.e. Cure Light Wounds, Disrupt Undead, etc) or through Channel Positive Energy such as that used by Clerics and Paladins.
I have a few questions:
1) What affect does Holy Water have on a haunt?
2) If it has an affect, how is it used against the haunt (i.e. missile splash weapon, needing an attack roll, just poured on, etc)?
3) Also, if it does, is it a requirement that it has to be used in the area of the haunt or on a specific place within the haunt?
4) What affected does a Cure potion (any type) have on the haunt?
5) If it has an affect, how is it used against the haunt (i.e. missile splash weapon, needing an attack roll, just poured on, etc)?
I'm not sure if I have my head around how a haunt can be affected by anyone other than a spell caster (using the spells mentioned above) or a Cleric/Paladin.
Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
My party pretty much ran from the more dangerous haunts (specifically, Old Ember Maw), but on the lesser ones (the slamming doors, par example) they would sprinkle holy water on the haunt object(s). I allowed this to deal normal damage to the haunt without an attack roll, but if it survived, it angered the haunt and reset immediately (the Branding Room was fun for them :) ).
Their healer was an oracle who didn't have access to channel, and was also stingy with healing spells. As such, he never cast a single positive energy spell at ANY of the haunts. Haunts that have a ghostly manifestation (such as the Mosswater Marauder, or the Piper), I required a melee attack roll against AC 10, but haunted objects or spaces (the Cold Spot) simply worked if they touched the right spot or cast the spell in the right area.
As far as cure potions, I would make them not work, simply because a Bull Strength potion won't buff Str if you break it over someone's head. Potions must be imbibed.
I admit, we had an amount of running from things. Some things scared the living sh*t out of my (single) PC. Some things... did not.
They got through it by not trying to put everything to rest and through strategically ignoring certain things. My PC didn't take orders or tactical metagaming hints from my GMPC. And they didn't have to throw holy water on hallway walls.
My party pretty much ran from the more dangerous haunts (specifically, Old Ember Maw), but on the lesser ones (the slamming doors, par example) they would sprinkle holy water on the haunt object(s). I allowed this to deal normal damage to the haunt without an attack roll, but if it survived, it angered the haunt and reset immediately (the Branding Room was fun for them :) ).
Their healer was an oracle who didn't have access to channel, and was also stingy with healing spells. As such, he never cast a single positive energy spell at ANY of the haunts. Haunts that have a ghostly manifestation (such as the Mosswater Marauder, or the Piper), I required a melee attack roll against AC 10, but haunted objects or spaces (the Cold Spot) simply worked if they touched the right spot or cast the spell in the right area.
As far as cure potions, I would make them not work, simply because a Bull Strength potion won't buff Str if you break it over someone's head. Potions must be imbibed.
i believe haunt siphons and holy water damage any undead including haunts (holy water is a splash weapon i believe).
My players include an Inquisitor and a Magus. Both have access to unlimited use of "Disrupt Undead": Ranged touch vs any Haunt or undead, and 1d6 positive energy damage each round... They have fared very well with the Harrowstone nasties...
Paladin AND a Cleric would make it too easy. I imagine the Paladin will soon enough become a pain in the neck for the DM, as he'll have to specially tailor the encounters in order to challenge him or encounters will be a cakewalk.
Oracle is an intresting class, and a Lore Oracle would have been GREAT during the first chapter, but skip the Life Oracle.
I have a Paladin, Cleric and Inquistor in my party. They breezed through HoH taking down the Splatter man whey they were 2nd level. But it was still an epic fight. I also disliked that they accidently killed Father Charlatan by using channel envegy on other undead/haunts but unknowingly hitting him also. But they ran into problems during the next 3 AP's. So this mix made HoH a bit easy but they had no significant advantages in the next 3 AP's.