Pow is basically tome of battle/book of 9 swords PF edition afaik.
Without an extensive knowledge of PoW I can't really say what feats would and wouldn't break things though unfortunately which is why i'd advocate cherry picking with modular options opposed to using PoW whole cloth (i'm also lazy and that sounds like less work to me :P).
But as an example i'm not sure how the boost, multi-attack interaction you were describing would play out and/or why it would be overpowered.
Also a note about mechanical depth. Martials in KF are more or less given the basic tools needed for competency in fighting in the form of free scaling damage. A level 1 Barbarian is my favorite example, with 0 player choice it automatically does ridiculous damage to the tune of something like 17-20 2-handing, which is grossly excessive at level 1. (Vital strike, rage, power attack, strength, weapon damage)
Yes in fact you can easily covert the strikes and such over to feats that scale as the ever advancing maneuvers would.
As an example
Throwing Shell [Combat]
You have learned the art of hurling your shield in such a way so that it returns after striking.
Prerequisites: Martial Shield Profiency, BAB +1
Benefits: Using a special technique developed for surprisingly effective ranged attacks, the disciple of the Iron Tortoise knows how to deliver his shield in a powerful throw in a manner similar to a champion discus thrower. As a Standard Action the initiator throws his shield (light or heavy shields; this does not work with bucklers or tower shields) with a range increment of 20 ft. as a ranged attack, inflicting damage as if the character had just shield bashed his opponent and inflicting an additional 1d6 points of damage and the shield falls to a space adjacent of his target (the player may choose which space it lands in). If the attacked target is within the first two range increments, then the initiator may catch the shield as a free action and regain use of his shield on his turn.
* If your BAB is at least +6 you now do an additional +3d6 damage and may ricochet to up to 3 additional targets within 20ft of each other before returning to the thrower, the additional damage is reduced by +1d6 per target (+2d6 for the second, +1d6 for the third, none for the forty)
*If your Base attack bonus is at least +11 you may instead take a full-round action to throw and ricochet your shield to all enemies within a 20ft burst for 12d6 damage reflex save (16+Str Mod) for half.
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Can I tie a string to it and call it a yo-yo?
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Can I tie a string to it and call it a yo-yo?
I'll allow it!
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Of course you can do that with a small spiked shield!
Hey, I don't suppose there's a Strike Feat that allows martial characters to hit swarms, is there? Or alternatively, a Strike that does AoE damage and forces a save? Or is that firmly in the court of spellcaster niche protection?
Hey, I don't suppose there's a Strike Feat that allows martial characters to hit swarms, is there? Or alternatively, a Strike that does AoE damage and forces a save? Or is that firmly in the court of spellcaster niche protection?
IIRC, an updated Whirlwind Strike feat lets you do full damage vs. swarms of Tiny critters, and half damage vs. Diminutive and Fine ones, at BAB +1. You'd do full damage vs. swarms at BAB +6.
Funny you should ask that now, since I spent the weekend converting swarms to KF... unless you've got a spy-bot on my computer?
Is it intended that Practiced X be able to be taken multiple times? The text does not call it out, but Practiced Bloodline (for example) calls out that it does stack with itself if taken multiple times even though it is lacking the text specifying that it can be taken multiple times.
Relevant loophole and/or clarification: if Practiced X can be taken more than once, and feat pricing is based on 2000 * effective level after taking the feat, then there are two options for a 10th level fighter/8th level Druid wanting to have a vest increasing his fighter level to 18th for purposes of X: Either 2000 * 18 = 36,000, or 2000 * 14 (first +4) + 2000 * 18 (second +4) = 64,000 numen.
Secondly, does a standard racial paragon class have to be completed before standard classes can be taken? I know the level-adjusted races need to complete the specified number of levels, but does a Dverge or Deep Gnome, etc, need to complete their racial levels?
Is it intended that Practiced X be able to be taken multiple times?
Not unless it says so. Otherwise no.
Secondly, does a standard racial paragon class have to be completed before standard classes can be taken? I know the level-adjusted races need to complete the specified number of levels, but does a Dverge or Deep Gnome, etc, need to complete their racial levels?
No; you can gain them anytime as long as you're eligible, and leave off and come back as desired. There's nothing wrong with an elf, for example, taking 2 levels in fighter, then 4 levels of wizard, then a level in Daoine Sidhe, then another 2 fighter levels, then 3 more DS levels, then 2 more levels of wizard, etc.
Had a couple more questions about possible typos or things I found unclear in their meaning.
1. The Ranger Favored Terrain Plane of Shadow benefits only apply in dim Light on material plane… so no see in darkness on the material plane? Shadowboxing has no benefit in darkness on material plane, and with a +10 favored terrain bonus you lose the Shadow Creature template on the material plane, or in bright light or darkness at a +12 bonus?
2. Ranger feats: several of the ranger feats have different ways to qualify for very similar-themed bonuses/effects. There’s Quarry and/or favored enemy (Hunter’s Critical, Hunter’s Dodge, Practiced Quarry) , Quarry only (Hunter’s Power) , Favored enemy only (Hunter’s Defense).... Was this intended so that you cannot get the bonus to saves vs your quarry, or cannot get the bonus to power attacking vs favored enemies? Favored enemies says to treat the favored enemies as your quarry… so Hunter’s Power does actually apply?
3. Is Endurance “Exert” a daily total or sequential number of rounds before being fatigued? Is it Take 19 on sleeping in armor for trained or supposed to be take 10? Restless slumber conflicts with Rank 16 bonus - Restless slumber goes down to 1 hour while the Rank 16 bonus specifies 2 hours.
4. Can Intimidation to demoralize be used from partial concealment (for example, 16 ranks of Stealth gives permanent, Extraordinary partial concealment)? Total Concealment? Does the Frightful presence ability from Staredown work within a darkness spell (ie, raging/charging)? If you cast a darkness spell on yourself, and then move into an area with opponents who were not affected by the original castings area, are they still demoralized if they fail their save? Can you cast darkness on opponents within a silence field and still demoralize them?
5. Secondary Skills says “Every character gains 1 skill rank per class level in a specific secondary skill for free. “ Is this part of the class bonus skills, or in addition to that? Is it 1 rank per HD in a skill selected at first level, or 1 rank per HD spread across multiple skills (20 ranks total). Multiple comments in the forum, and several references in the documents, make me think it should be 1 rank per HD in a specific skill chosen at first level.
6. Would a practiced X for ranger lores cover only lores, or would it be balanced to extend it to favored terrain progression as well? Seems like existing practiced X that increase lores/talents/powers also increase one other ability (weapon training, resistances, etc), and there is already quarry and tracking progression as separate feats.
Read Magic is a cantrip on the Ranger list despite Ch 7 subsuming it into linguistics
The haste pricing example from December 2015 (forum) prices the speed bonus as per the table (3^2 *1000), while the CH.6 document uses expeditious retreat as an example of speed pricing (under Enhanced Companions in the “Other” section) at 2000 (1*1*2*1000). Pretty sure that the expeditious retreat example is counter to the intention of how permanent bonuses should be priced.
Fly: Fail the DC 25 check and get blown away, fail the DC 20 check and cannot actually move? Text says that when blown away, must still make the DC 20 fly check to be blown away.
My apologies if the repeated rounds of questions are wearing thin, but I keep having thoughts!
1. The Ranger Favored Terrain Plane of Shadow benefits only apply in dim Light on material plane…
Same reply as for speak with animals for forest terrain (x2), up-thread.
2. Ranger feats: several of the ranger feats have different ways to qualify for very similar-themed bonuses/effects.
Partly answered above. Sometimes it's appropriate for them to be interchangeable, sometimes not. At some point I'll go through them more carefully, but that's low on the priority list right now.
3. Is Endurance “Exert” a daily total or sequential number of rounds before being fatigued?
Sequential. I've updated the skill description -- I'll try and remember to post it.
Is it Take 19 on sleeping in armor for trained or supposed to be take 10?
It's a typo. Take 10.
Restless slumber conflicts with Rank 16 bonus - Restless slumber goes down to 1 hour while the Rank 16 bonus specifies 2 hours.
Not a conflict, just missing a phrase, "at least 2 hours (1 hour at 20 ranks)."
4. (a) Can Intimidation to demoralize be used from partial concealment? (b) Total Concealment? (c) Does the Frightful presence ability from Staredown work within a darkness spell (ie, raging/charging)? (d) If you cast a darkness spell on yourself, and then move into an area with opponents who were not affected by the original castings area, are they still demoralized if they fail their save? (e) Can you cast darkness on opponents within a silence field and still demoralize them?
(a)-(e) Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. Nowhere does it say that demoralizing is a [visual] effect, so it's not. Indeed, an unseen foe can be scarier than one you're looking at.
5. Secondary Skills says “Every character gains 1 skill rank per class level in a specific secondary skill for free. “ (a) Is this part of the class bonus skills, or in addition to that? (b) Is it 1 rank per HD in a skill selected at first level, or 1 rank per HD spread across multiple skills (20 ranks total).
(a) In addition; (b) player's choice.
6. Would a practiced X for ranger lores cover only lores, or would it be balanced to extend it to favored terrain progression as well? Seems like existing practiced X that increase lores/talents/powers also increase one other ability (weapon training, resistances, etc), and there is already quarry and tracking progression as separate feats.
There currently is no such feat. If a particular table were to add one, it would be up to them to draft the language and vote on it.
7. Read Magic is a cantrip on the Ranger list despite Ch 7 subsuming it into linguistics
8. The haste pricing example from December 2015 (forum) prices the speed bonus as per the table (3^2 *1000), while the CH.6 document uses expeditious retreat as an example of speed pricing (under Enhanced Companions in the “Other” section) at 2000 (1*1*2*1000). Pretty sure that the expeditious retreat example is counter to the intention of how permanent bonuses should be priced.
9. Fly: Fail the DC 25 check and get blown away, fail the DC 20 check and cannot actually move? Text says that when blown away, must still make the DC 20 fly check to be blown away.
7. Cutting the ranger a break when it comes to skills. Everyone else uses the skill; the ranger, as the ultimate world traveller, can "cheat" a bit and use a cantrip.
8. Speed increases actually seem to work better on a linear pricing scale; that's been clarified in the current master documents. I'll try and remember to post the new quote for that.
9. As part of the spells rules work, I've also been working on standardizing the rules for winds; they make more sense now, and I'll update Fly accordingly.
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There are a lot of cases in which I've made a minor correction, thinking "I'll just release a new edition one of these days, instead of posting them all." Unfortunately, I never seem to remember that, with a two-year-old at home, "one of these days" is on a time scale of years instead of months!
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P.S. Swarms are done. They work nicely as a template, and then add racial HD to taste:
To create a swarm, start with an animal, vermin, etc. as appropriate, then apply the Swarm template and possibly additional racial HD.
SWARM TEMPLATE (CR +1)
hp: Reducing a swarm to 0 hp or less causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack (no wound categories). Swarms are never fatigued, exhausted, staggered, or reduced to a dying state by damage. A swarm rendered unconscious by means of nonlethal damage becomes disorganized and dispersed, and does not reform until its hp exceed its nonlethal damage.
DR: A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage.
Immune: flanking, precision damage, targeted effects (see below)
Weaknesses: A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells.
Melee: Swarms don't make standard melee attacks. Instead, they deal automatic damage to any creature whose space they occupy at the end of their move, with no attack roll needed. Swarm attacks are not subject to a miss chance for concealment or cover. A swarm's statistics block has "swarm" in the Melee entry, with no attack bonus given. The amount of damage a swarm deals is based on its Hit Dice, as shown below.
Swarm HD Base Damage
1-5 1d6
6-10 2d6
11-15 3d6
16-20 4d6
21+ 5d6
Face: 10 ft. x 10 ft. For larger swarms, use multiple contiguous 10’ x 10’ swarms.
Reach: Swarms do not threaten creatures, and do not make attacks of opportunity with their swarm attack.
CMB ―; CMD ―
Special Atks: distraction (see below)
Attributes:
vermin: Str 1, Dex 15, Con 12, Int ―, Wis 11, Cha 4;
animals: Str 12 (-4 per size below Small), Dex 15, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 4.
Feats: Some feats work differently for swarms:
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Cling (Ex): If a creature leaves the swarm's square, the swarm suffers 1d6 points of damage to reflect the loss of its numbers as several of the pests continue to cling tenaciously to the victim. A creature being clung to takes Vital Strike damage at the end of his or her turn each round. As a full-round action, the ants can be removed with a Reflex save (Dex-based save DC). Any amount of damage from an area effect destroys all clinging creatures.
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that takes damage from a creature with the distraction ability is nauseated for 1 round; a Fort save (Con-based save DC) negates the effect. Within the area of a swarm, spellcasting, concentrating on spells, or using skills that involve patience requires a Concentration check at the appropriate DC (plus 2x spell level, if casting).
Immune to Targeted Effects (Ex): A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of [mind-affecting] effects if the swarm has an Intelligence score and a hive mind.
From Chapter 4, under Demoralize:
You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you.
On the Favored Terrain Plane of Shadow, it explicitly says it applies at a -2 bonus in areas of shadow on the material plane - thus my questioning it. "In shadow or darkness" would mostly give back the utility of the +6, +8, and +10 bonuses on the material plane.
You can only threaten opponents in this way if they are within 30 feet and can clearly see and hear you.
Holdover text copied from Pathfinder; I'd recommend keeping the range, but losing the rest of the sentence.
On the Favored Terrain Plane of Shadow, it explicitly says it applies at a -2 bonus in areas of shadow on the material plane - thus my questioning it. "In shadow or darkness" would mostly give back the utility of the +6, +8, and +10 bonuses on the material plane.
Let's go with that, then.
As promised:
ENDURANCE
Active Checks: To continue exerting oneself beyond normal limits, an Endurance check is needed. Use Endurance in place of Constitution checks when dealing with drowning and suffocation, starvation, thirst, etc., as shown in the following table. Unless otherwise noted, the DC is always 10 + 1 per previous check.
Condition (see below) ... Base Time ... Check Frequency Thereafter
Exertion (light activity) ... 8 hours... 1/hour
Exertion (strenuous exercise) ... 2x Con score or Endurance skill bonus, in minutes... 1/minute
Exertion (maximum exertion) ... Con score or Endurance skill bonus, in rounds... 1/round
Sleep Deprivation ... 20 + Endurance modifier, in hours... 1/hour
Starvation... 3 days... 1/day
Thirst... 1 day + number of hours equal to your Con score ...1/hour
Avalanche or Landslide... 0 (As soon as pinned)... Once, after falling unconscious, to avoid suffocation.
Exertion, Light Activity: You can engage in light activity (not resting) for up to 8 hours without difficulty. Continuing thereafter requires checks as shown in the table. If the check fails, you take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and are fatigued. Eliminating the nonlethal damage also eliminates the fatigue. It’s possible to march into unconsciousness by pushing yourself too hard. Light activity includes:
Walking (or other normal movement) at normal speed (1 mph per 10 ft. of base speed);
Maintaining a bardic inspiration;
Playing games;
Working in an office, or overseeing work being performed by others.
Exertion, Strenuous Exercise: You can perform strenuous exercise for a number of minutes equal to your twice your Constitution score or Endurance skill bonus, whichever is greather. Continuing thereafter requires checks as shown in the table. On a failed check, you take nonlethal damage equal to the number of checks made, and are fatigued if you take any nonlethal damage. If you are swimming, you go under and must hold your breath or begin to drown; if climbing, you must succeed at another check (adjusted for fatigue) or fall. Conditions of strenuous exercise include the following:
Climbing, for creatures without a climb speed;
Concentrating on an ongoing spell effect;
Hustling/jogging at 2x normal speed (1 mph per 5 ft. of movement speed);
Swimming, for creatures without a swim speed.
Exertion, Maximal: A character can maximally exert him or herself for a total number of consecutive rounds equal to his or her Constitution score or Endurance skill bonus, whichever is greater. Continuing thereafter requires Endurance checks as shown in the table. Failure means you are exhausted for 1 minute, and fatigued thereafter; if you are holding your breath, you begin to suffocate/drown as well. If you stop before that maximum length of time, you are instead fatigued for a number of rounds equal to the length of the exertion.
Conditions of maximal exertion include:
Combat;
Holding one’s breath;
Running (4x normal speed, or 5x if trained in Athletics);
Spellcasting;
Swimming while holding one’s breath at depths greater than his or her Athletics skill (Chapter 4) would normally allow.
Sleep Deprivation: You can stay awake a number of hours equal to 20 + your Endurance modifier. Each additional hour requires an Endurance check, starting at DC 10 (the DC increases by 1 per subsequent check). An untrained character makes Constitution checks instead of Endurance checks to remain awake. If in the midst of combat or a similar situation, the character need not make checks until the situation is over, but the DC increases by 1.
Trained Only: A trained character is capable of the following tasks:
Task DC
Delay poison onset As poison save DC
Ferocity 20 + hp below negative Con score
Ignore caltrop 20
Ignore fatigue 20
Ignore exhaustion 30
Sleep in armor:
Light 15
Medium 25
Heavy 35
Stabilize 10 + hp below 0
Delay Poison Onset: If you fail the initial fortitude save to avoid being affected by a poison, you can attempt an Endurance check against the poison’s DC as a free action. If successful, the onset is delayed by one frequency unit as listed for that poison (generally 1 round or 1 minute). When that time elapses, you can attempt another check to delay the onset again. There is no limit to how long you can delay the onset in this manner, but each check after the first suffers a -1 cumulative penalty.
Ferocity: If reduced to 0 hit points (disabled), you can attempt a DC 20 Endurance check. If successful, you can take a normal action while at 0 hit points without taking 1 point of damage. You must make a check for each strenuous action you want to take; the DC of each such successive check increases by 1. On a failed check, you can choose not to take the strenuous action and thus avoid the hit point loss; if you take the action anyway, you drop to –1 hit points, as normal when disabled.
When reduced to negative hit points, on a successful Endurance check at DC 20 + the number of hp below 0 (i.e., DC 25 at –5 hp), you may choose to act as if you were disabled, rather than dying. You must make this decision as soon as you are reduced to negative hit points (even if it isn’t your turn). When disabled, you have the staggered condition. You can take a partial action without further injuring yourself, but if you perform more than one partial action (or any other action deemed as strenuous, including some free actions, swift actions, or immediate actions, such as casting a quickened spell) you take 1 point of damage after completing the act. If you reach a negative number of hp equal to your Constitution score, you immediately die.
Ignore Caltrop: If you are wounded by stepping on a caltrop, your speed is reduced to one-half normal. A successful Endurance check removes this movement penalty. The wound doesn’t go away—it is just ignored through self-persuasion.
Sleep in Armor: If you sleep in armor, you do not become fatigued for doing so if you make an Endurance check at the listed DC upon awakening. (You cannot take 20 on this check.)
Stabilize: When reduced below 0 hp, you can roll an Endurance check at DC 10 + the number of hp below 0 (i.e., DC 15 at –5 hp) to auto-stabilize.
Ignore Fatigue: By succeeding at a DC 20 Endurance check, you can ignore the fatigued condition (and associated penalties) for a number of rounds equal to the margin by which your check succeeds. If you are exhausted, you might be able to similarly reduce (DC 25) or ignore (DC 30) penalties for the same length of time, as shown on the table.
Untrained: The number of consecutive rounds a character can run or otherwise maximally exert him or herself is equal to the character’s constitution score. A character can hustle (double normal speed) for 1 hour. Checks to avoid nonlethal damage are Constitution checks. The chance to stabilize when below 0 hp is a flat 10%. An untrained character cannot ignore wounds or sleep in armor.
Take 10: You can choose to Take 10 to stay awake, automatically nodding off when the DC reaches 10 + your Endurance bonus. You can likewise Take 10 to resist starvation and thirst. Trained characters who regularly sleep in armor can Take 10 to do so. Trained characters can Take 10 to ignore caltrops and ignore fatigue.
Class Skill: If you have Endurance as a class skill, you receive the following additional benefits:
Reduce Armor Penalty: For every 3 ranks you possess, you eliminate –1 worth of armor check penalties for any armor you wear. If you reduce the armor check penalty to –0, then you suffer no penalties to your speed while wearing that armor. For example, a paladin with masterwork full plate (-5 check penalty) with 15 ranks in Endurance as a class skill can wear that armor with no check penalty and no penalty to movement.
Reduce Encumbrance: When determining your carrying capacity, add your number of ranks in Endurance to your Strength score. This does not affect your actual Strength in any way, merely the amount of gear you can carry. It also has no effect on encumbrance due to armor. If you wear armor you still take the normal penalties for doing so regardless of how much weight you can carry. This ability subsumes the Armiger’s “tough as nails” class feature, from Iron Heroes (Fiery Dragon Productions).
Restless Slumber: If you have at least two ranks in Endurance as a class skill, you regain hp and daily-use class features, including spells, after 7 hours of sleep/rest instead of the normal eight. The amount of sleep you need is reduced by an additional hour for every 2 ranks thereafter until it is reduced to 4 hours (at 8 ranks as a class skill). The amount of sleep needed is reduced by one additional hour per 4 ranks thereafter (minimum of 1 hour of sleep to be fully refreshed, with 20 ranks as a class skill).
You gain the following additional abilities as you gain ranks:
Stalwart: If you have at least 6 ranks in Endurance as a class skill, you are immune to effects that would leave a normal person fatigued. Effects that would normally leave you exhausted cause you to be fatigued instead.
Indefatigable: If you have at least 11 ranks, you are immune to fatigue and exhaustion.
If you have at least 16 ranks, you are immune to magical sleep and cannot be knocked unconscious (although you must still sleep at least 2 hours a night (1 hour at 20 ranks)).
Try Again: No, for most uses. To reduce fatigue or exhaustion, you can try each round as a swift action.
SPEED
– Longstrider: +10 ft. for 1st level x CL 1st x 500 = 500 numen, or 250 numen per +5 ft.
– Wind Walk: 6th level x CL 11th x 500 x 1 (hour/level) = 33,000/600 feet = 275 numen per +5 ft. in speed.
The prices are more or less comparable at 250 numen per +5 ft. in speed.
There was a recent discussion that might be relevant to some of your recent tinkerings/thoughts on the skill system. I realize that you've made a fair bit of progress in this area, but there might be some useful insights to help any further revisions.
My work laptop has it blocked, so I'll have to fire up my antique machine when I get home.
I'll probably do Son Goku first as he was the first one I played around with.
If you're still making DBZ Son Goku as a Kirthfinder character, may I suggest a Barbarian? He can get the Ape Totem to represent his Saiyan Heritage, and with the right Rage Power, might even be able to turn into an Ape.
Moreover, Goku's various power boosts can mirror Barbarian "Rage," starting from the basic "Kaio Ken" going to Super Saiyan 1, 2, 3 all the way up to his current "Super Saiyan Blue" appearance as a "Primal Rage" (though Super Saiyan 4 also works if you're into GT).
Mutagenic Rager is a thing, so you can always say that your hair changes color/shape whenever you rage.
I'll probably do Son Goku first as he was the first one I played around with.If you're still making DBZ Son Goku as a Kirthfinder character, may I suggest a Barbarian? He can get the Ape Totem to represent his Saiyan Heritage, and with the right Rage Power, might even be able to turn into an Ape.
Moreover, Goku's various power boosts can mirror Barbarian "Rage," starting from the basic "Kaio Ken" going to Super Saiyan 1, 2, 3 all the way up to his current "Super Saiyan Blue" appearance as a "Primal Rage" (though Super Saiyan 4 also works if you're into GT).
Mutagenic Rager is a thing, so you can always say that your hair changes color/shape whenever you rage.
I am using barbarian and did Saiyan as a Monstrous humanoid. I haven't been able to spend a huge time working on it with work, new baby and our annual musical at the college but I'll post what i have.
Monstrous Humanoid 3 / Barbarian 3/ Battle Sorcerer (Giant)
Male Saiyan (Monstrous humanoid 3 )
CG Monstrous humanoid [Saiyan, human]
Init +7; Senses threat assessment (swift action); Perception +
Languages Common, Orcish, Draconic
AC , touch , flat-footed
(+2 Dex,)
hp 71 (HD 9[3d10,3d12,3d6]; LW35 /HW17);
Hero Points
Immune;
Fort +, Ref +, Int +, Will +;
Spd 30 ft.
Melee
Ranged
Face 5 ft. x 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Atk +8 CMB CMD
Special Atks Eldritch Blast +
Attributes Str 15, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 12 , Cha 12
SQ ;
Feats Toughness, Fast Recovery
Skills Athletics 6/; Concentration 3/; Endurance 6/; Perception 6/
Possessions PC gear (numen ; par ):
How does Pierce the fog of work?
Benefit: Through superior tactical reasoning, you deduce the true locations of your enemies. You ignore all concealment when attacking, including invisibility, blur, displacement, and mundane and magical darkness, fog, or other concealing conditions. Furthermore, you are able to deduce the true caster from the images when facing an opponent under a mirror image spell, and can deduce when and where a blinking opponent will appear (negating that spell’s usual miss chance). By observing a projected image, as a free action you can determine the location of the image’s caster.
Basically is the first line flavor text?
If yes then I read it as when attacking foes do not gain the benefits of concealment/miss chance regardless of its source. And You automatically know where the caster of a projected image is located.
However outside of that you do not gain additional insights into what square an opponent is in.
For example if they were invisible and using stealth you wouldn't get the benefits of this talent until you successfully deduced their square with perception (or got lucky and pick the right one).
Is that the correct interpretation?
How does Pierce the fog of work?
Benefit: Through superior tactical reasoning, you deduce the true locations of your enemies. You ignore all concealment when attacking, including invisibility, blur, displacement, and mundane and magical darkness, fog, or other concealing conditions. Furthermore, you are able to deduce the true caster from the images when facing an opponent under a mirror image spell, and can deduce when and where a blinking opponent will appear (negating that spell’s usual miss chance). By observing a projected image, as a free action you can determine the location of the image’s caster.Basically is the first line flavor text?
Yes. It's there because if you put an (Ex) ability allowing a martial character to do (Ex) things, everyone yells "You're making the fighter into a wizard!!!!11!" unless you include a bunch of (Ex) flavor text justifying it.
As far as deducing the right square, Perception is the mainstay, but I'd allow the fighter to substitute a Knowledge (Warfare) check instead -- and the stealthy people were actively sniping, I'd make the success automatic (as for project image), even though the text doesn't spell that out (it probably should).
Yea At first glance I read it as rules in that knows where all enemies area all the time. But revisiting that that's a bit absurd.
It seems like the intention is that the Blind Sight from Blind fight feat (Which is required) was intended to work in tandem.
I like the idea of adding "Can deduce the true location of foes that are have actively attacked the fighter and that are participating in combat" or some such wording.
Meaning you can still sneak past but once you engage him in a fight he knows your location until you either flee or are dead.
It seems like the intention is that the Blind Sight from Blind fight feat (Which is required) was intended to work in tandem.
I can't remember now if the blindsight function was added to Blind-Fighting before or after I wrote PtFoW, but in any case, yes, they should indeed work in tandem.
Interesting exchange on another thread about equipment, that I'd like to share here:
Hey Kirth, I'm a fan of Krithfinder, and that chapter 6 was a very interesting reading that gave me some ideas, kudos for writing examples, and the section about special materials was very detailed, but also I must say that your system requires some streamlining, I understand Kirthfinder was written for your group but I found some parts a little confusing.
BTW, reading about your 'numen' system makes me think about this: the Advanced template gives a +4 to all ability scores a +2 of natural armor, if you wanted to replicate that with magic items it will cost4*4*1,000=16,000*6=96,000
+
2*2*1,000=4,000
=100,000
(I know natural armor cost 2,000 but that have always seems odd to me, also multiplying by 1,000 allows for a practical number of 100,000)So in theory you can increase the Cr by +1 giving magic items equivalent to 100,000 gp.
And if you wanted to replicate how the advanced template stacks, each increase on CR will cost more and more GP so +2 to CR will be 400,000, a +3 will be 900,000, and so on. In summary it will be the intended increase to CR squared * 100,000
That's a very nice insight -- a connection I hadn't thought to make, previously. It implies to me that I should probably revisit the numen values -- instead of matching them to (roughly) 3.5 or PF WBL, match them to CR increase instead. Thank you!
One thing I do notice is that the template is better than the bonuses, because the +4 to all attributes from the template are not enhancement bonuses, and can therefore be further enhanced; you'd almost need to use the "other" bonus pricing instead. So the Advanced simple template would run you something closer to 488,000 numen, if you bought it as a magic item, which seems a little steep. (Then again, it's very close to the difference between minimum and par for a 19th level character.)
One thing I do notice is that the template is better than the bonuses, because the +4 to all attributes from the template are not enhancement bonuses, and can therefore be further enhanced; you'd almost need to use the "other" bonus pricing instead. So the Advanced simple template would run you something closer to 488,000 numen, if you bought it as a magic item, which seems a little steep. (Then again, it's very close to the difference between minimum and par for a 19th level character.)
On the other hand making the same comparison for level 2 between minimum and Par you got a difference of only 120 gp, but 120 gp of items really gives enough power increase to justify +1 to CR? I really don't think so, I mean it is not even enough for a masterwork weapon, and specially when you consider that you could have added the Advanced template and get a +2 to everything for the same +1 to CR.
I definitively think the way to go should be to match numen to CR increases. Also it will allow you for more granularity. I will stick to my previous formula of CR increase squared * 100,000 for the following examples:
Using Par as the intended character wealth by level, if a character (I'm using character indistinctly from PC, NPC, or monster) has 100,000 gp worth of numen his CR will increases by +1, so a 10th level/CR character with 149,000 will be instead CR 11, on the other hand a 18th level/CR character with only 40,000 gp worth of numen will be instead CR 16.
Is that every 100,000^(+cr) Over/under Par for +/- CR?
The level 1 limit may be somewhat low, but I still don't think anywhere near 100K worth of gear is really needed for a 1st level PC to be CR 1.
If you wanted to get super into the math you could use the various monster creation tables and determine how that relatively impacts CR.
I.e if as a martial damage dealer you boost your to hit and damage to that of a cr 6 creature when you are cr 4 then the Numen you spent is effectively +2 CR. Though that sounds more or less impossible to track
Is that every 100,000^(+cr) Over/under Par for +/- CR?
No, it would be (+CR)*(+CR)*100,000
So +1 to CR requires 100,000 GP, a +2 to CR would be 400,000 gp, a +3 to CR would be 900,000 gp, and so on. And yes every deviation over/under Par would be a +/- to CR
The level 1 limit may be somewhat low, but I still don't think anywhere near 100K worth of gear is really needed for a 1st level PC to be CR 1.
Actually a PC level 1 with 100,000 gp would be CR 2. But yeah I see your point, it would still looks like a lot of gear for such a low level character.
Actually a PC level 1 with 100,000 gp would be CR 2.
I many not be fully grasping what you propose, then. A level 1 PC with no gear, by the core rules, is CR 1/2 (just as a 10th level fighter with NPC gear is CR 9). At what amount of gear is the 1st level PC equal to CR 1?
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I many not be fully grasping what you propose, then. A level 1 PC with no gear, by the core rules, is CR 1/2 (just as a 10th level fighter with NPC gear is CR 9). At what amount of gear is the 1st level PC equal to CR 1?
Actually a PC level 1 with 100,000 gp would be CR 2.
Just to clarify this is a theory and may need more adjustments. But part of what I'm proposing is to replace the NPC gear equals to -1 to CR with the following table, I hope it helps to explain things better CR adjusted by Wealth
So for a level 20 character with gear between
1,160,000 gp and 1,660,000 gp will be CR 22
860,000 gp and 1,160,000 gp will be CR 21
760,000 gp and 860,000 gp will be CR 20
660,000 gp and 760,000 gp will be CR 19
360,000 gp and 660,000 gp will be CR18
less than 360,000 gp will be CR 17
So answering your questions a PC level 1 with no gear will be indeed CR 1/2, and a Fighter level 10 with less than 27,000 gp will be CR 9. Although the value listed on Par for level 1 perhaps should not be 0, maybe 100 gp?
Kirth, if you have the time and inclination, could you expand on what a prestige paladin (Liberator) would look like? I am assuming chaotic good, but what about channeling smite/divine bond/domain options/auras, divine grace, mercy changes, etc? Really curious, because that's always been my reason not to play paladins - I prefer chaotic/neutral good/neutral characters for PCs.
Kirth, if you have the time and inclination, could you expand on what a prestige paladin (Liberator) would look like? I am assuming chaotic good, but what about channeling smite/divine bond/domain options/auras, divine grace, mercy changes, etc? Really curious, because that's always been my reason not to play paladins - I prefer chaotic/neutral good/neutral characters for PCs.
I'd sort of left that to be developed based on the needs of an individual group. I'd probably keep most of the stuff the same, except smite would work against slavers, police, bureaucrats, and so on. Maybe design a new suite of auras including magic circle against law and freedom of movement. Mercy options would include stuff like remove paralysis and break enchantment.
Kirth, TOZ,, I found an older reference to a ranger lore "Favored Enemy Adaptation". Was that cut from the most recent documents, or am I a few revisions behind?
Hey Kirth.
I noticed that Evasion and Mettle are a lot more widespread than in regular Pathfinder. These do a very good job of protecting players against Fort/Ref/Will saves, but I noticed that both exclude Intuition saves. As far as I know, there is no way to really "Save Negate" an Intuition save, is there?
Given that Intuition saves are curses, divination, illusions, charm effects, confusion, and insanity.
Which are by and large all or nothing saves anyways I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Insanity is Wis drain, so that could be ameliorated -- and, as currently written, charm effects are Cha damage. That said, those two examples are pretty corner-case to be spending a feat on by themselves. What I can see doing is making it a function of the Deep Intuition feat.
Come to think of it, maybe all of the evasion/mettle stuff could be handled by save boost feat + "X" associated skill ranks?
Perhaps give the save boosting feats a synergy with the Skill Focus or Skill Synergy feat to provide the evasion/mettle effect?
Insanity is Wis drain, so that could be ameliorated -- and, as currently written, charm effects are Cha damage. That said, those two examples are pretty corner-case to be spending a feat on by themselves. What I can see doing is making it a function of the Deep Intuition feat.
Come to think of it, maybe all of the evasion/mettle stuff could be handled by save boost feat + "X" associated skill ranks?
That's...not a bad idea, actually.
Question: Should Bards and Witches have Heal as a class skill? Since ranks in Heal as a class skill are now necessary to cast healing spells it would seem logical given that both classes have healing spells on their respective class spell lists.
Question: Should Bards and Witches have Heal as a class skill? Since ranks in Heal as a class skill are now necessary to cast healing spells it would seem logical given that both classes have healing spells on their respective class spell lists.
Thematically, I suppose that depends how you view "healing" in your campaign:
For some reason this gets really controversial, and people actually argue heatedly over this distinction, so I'd suggest leaving it up to each group to decide.
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Progress updates:
Question: Should Bards and Witches have Heal as a class skill? Since ranks in Heal as a class skill are now necessary to cast healing spells it would seem logical given that both classes have healing spells on their respective class spell lists.Thematically, I suppose that depends how you view "healing" in your campaign:
If you imagine it as bleeding wounds actually magically closing, the witch should get it, but not the bard.
If you imagine the character recovering from fatigue and becoming better able to face additional fighting, the bard should get it, but not the witch. For some reason this gets really controversial, and people actually argue heatedly over this distinction, so I'd suggest leaving it up to each group to decide.
You could allow them to choose a specific class skill. That way, if they want to go into healing, they can have that as an option.
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Maybe roll it into a Hex / Bardic Lore?
In the case of the witch maybe expand on the healing hex.
The Bardic lore could maybe also give healing spells as spells known and or let them apply cure spells to their performance easier.
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Wanted to come by and admit that, thanks in large part to the participants on this thread, I overcame my dislike for all things Anime long enough to watch Episode 1 of "One Punch Man."
It was excellent -- a very clever deconstruction of the whole superhero genre. I look forward to seeing more, although I hope it doesn't descend into what it's commenting on.
Rofl well if you decided to watch more I am sure we have suggestions