The bestiary entry on the Tarrasque states that there is no known way to slay it. Well, let it be known that I have discovered a virtually foolproof way to slay it permanently, without breaking rules, or even resorting to cheesy interpretations of things.
The Tarrasque is immune to: Permanent wounds, mind affecting effects, acid, fire, polymorph, ability damage, bleed, disease, energy drain, paralysis, petrification, and poison. Also, has SR 36, and a will save of +12
Magic Jar is a 5th level spell of the necromancy school, and does not overlap any of the Tarrasque's immunities. A wizard of 20th level, who has Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, and applies Piercing Spell metamagic to Magic Jar must roll a 7 or better to penetrate the spell resistance of the Tarrasque, and, assuming a +10 Int mod, and spell focus/greater spell focus necromancy, and using Heighten Spell 3 levels (along with piercing, to cast as a 9th circle spell) the Tarrasque must roll a natural 20 to succeed his will save versus possession. And, due to the way magic jar works, he would to roll a 20 each round for HOURS.
Upon possessing the Tarrasque, you may not access its extraordinary or supernatural abilities. Regeneration, in the universal monster rules, is called out as an extraordinary ability. As such, it is not active at the time of possession. At this point, the Tarrasque's body can be slain in virtually any way; trivial to do in 20 hours' time. When the host body is slain, as per magic jar, your soul returns to the gem, and "the life force of the host departs" (it is dead and gone).
If that is not sufficient, my possessed Tarrasque can submerge fully in water until such a time as it suffocates (which, specifically, can kill creatures with active regeneration).
So this means that a castor with interplanetary teleport can go on a whirlwind adventure across the stars as the Tarrasque.
So like, plant flags all over the solar system and claim them as your new-found Solar Empire.
As Gorbacz said regeneration is constant ability. Magic jar prevents possessor from activating extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the body, not benefiting them.
Also note that first successful saving throw render the target immune to possession attempts by the caster (depending upon reading of the paragraph until the next casting or forever).
You possess the body and force the creature's soul into the magic jar unless the subject succeeds on a Will save. Failure to take over the host leaves your life force in the magic jar, and the target automatically succeeds on further saving throws if you attempt to possess its body again.
If you'd like to rule it in that specific way, I understand, and accept those terms. Which is why I added the "If that is not sufficient," clause at the end. So, even if the regeneration does remain active, that doesn't prevent me from voluntarily suffocating it (and choosing to fail my fort saves vs. suffocating until "death"). At which point it is dead, and its soul *vanishes*
Also, I will admit it's my bad for having missed that clause in magic jar, but he still has only 5% chance to succeed. At worst, I get another wizard or sorcerer or whoever to handle it.
Edit: Or, instead of drowning and submerging in water, I could Silent/Still Greater Teleport out of the atmosphere, go on adventures in space until suffocation happens.
If you'd like to rule it in that specific way, I understand, and accept those terms. Which is why I added the "If that is not sufficient," clause at the end. So, even if the regeneration does remain active, that doesn't prevent me from voluntarily suffocating it (and choosing to fail my fort saves vs. suffocating until "death"). At which point it is dead, and its soul *vanishes*
Was it errated somewhere that suffocation can kill regenerating creature? In the Universal Monster rules it is only stated that Regeneration does not heal damage from suffocation and says nothing on the cannot be killed part.
Also, Tarrasque has special rule stating that no form of attack can supress its regeneration. I would say that it is more specific (as monster-specific) than generic "regeneration does not heal suffocation damage".
If we consider suffocation final effect as intant kill then Tarrasque specifically says that after any instant kill effect Tarasque returns to life 3 rounds later.
Edit: Or, instead of drowning and submerging in water, I could Silent/Still Greater Teleport out of the atmosphere, go on adventures in space until suffocation happens.
Remember that if the host dies when you are outside the range of your reptacle (200 feet for 20th level caster) then your soul cannot return home and you both die. Your sacrifice for the case of riding the world of the Tarasque will be appreciated, however ;)
so I guess that means that you are likely to find a tarrasque either kept at the bottom of the ocean (perhaps where the ocean's pressure and the the tarrasques regen cancel each other out?) or in the depths of space? Neat.
You could always teleport yourself to the sun and end the effect. Yeah, it might be able to regenerate through the sun's damage, but hell, it's on the sun!
|
| 6 people marked this as a favorite. |
Brilliant! And in the next campaign, set a thousand years into the future, your new heroes have to deal with a hellish, blazing, fire-immune and fire-breathing Solar Tarrasque. After long enough bathing in the sun's energy, it adapted to its environment.
And finally, the tranformation into Godzilla will be complete!
there is already a way to kill the tarrasque:
sphere of annihilation (minor artifact): only direct intervention of a deity can restore an annihilated character.
You could always use my favorite method in which all the terrasque's defenses, including saving throws, spell resistance, and the like are completely useless against. The only caveat is you have to be fairly quick about it, but the actual perma-killing need only be done by an 8th level cleric, wizard, sorcerer, or oracle.
Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.
Simply pop over to the tarrasque, throw down a desecrate spell and then cast animate dead on the corpse. Since animate dead can legally target the tarrasque while it is dead, the tarrassque animates into a giant zombie tarrasque under your control. When it does so, it loses all of special qualities, attacks, and so forth.
At which point the tarrasque's soul passes on, the tarrasque's body no longer has all the special features, and then can be destroyed easily.
In all your fancy figuring, you overlooked the simplest way for the spell to kill the Tarrasque.
If the spell ends while you are in a host, you return to your body (or die, if it is out of range of your current position), and the soul in the magic jar returns to its body (or dies if it is out of range). Destroying the receptacle ends the spell, and the spell can be dispelled at either the magic jar or the host's location.
You now have a soulless Tarrasque. You can feed a town forever! Tarrasque is cookable, right? Sure you sacrifice yourself, but you can just use a clone or be resurrected as your body is intact.
And, due to the way magic jar works, he would to roll a 20 each round for HOURS.
What? Where does it say this? If that is the way it works, whoever fixed the spell from 3.5 overlooked the fact that, statistically, there is no way the spell will EVER reach its max time. The shortest this will last is 9 hours. That is 32,400 saves (60 rounds/min * 60min/hour, if I'm right). Even if the opponent has to roll a 20, they will probably succeed before 1 hour is out (3600 saves)
there is no way you say?
the probability to save everytime during 9 hours is 1,757e-722, it might be unlikely, but not impossible :)
(sorry, couldn't resist)
there is no way you say?
the probability to save everytime during 9 hours is 1,757e-722, it might be unlikely, but not impossible :)
(sorry, couldn't resist)
It only has to save once. That's the point of a save.
I thought the idea behind killing it was you had to actually get it unconscious and then blow two wishes, one to wish it couldn't regenerate and then a 2nd to wish it would stay dead.
Screw that. Magic Jar it. Teleport your party across the continent (or just Dimension Door a mile over) and then cast Antimagic Field. Both the Tarrasque and you die. The tarrasque can't rise because a save-or-die didn't kill it - it's soul just goes away. Then you either go to a clone or someone True Resurrect's you.
Of course you have to pimp Magic Jar to the point where it's a threat.
I thought the idea behind killing it was you had to actually get it unconscious and then blow two wishes, one to wish it couldn't regenerate and then a 2nd to wish it would stay dead.
The "-30 Hp and Wish it dead" methond existed in previous editions, but they removed it from Pathfinder. Which means that moving it elsewhere, getting super rule-bendy creative or plot device are the only ways to stop it.
It only has to save once. That's the point of a save.there is no way you say?
the probability to save everytime during 9 hours is 1,757e-722, it might be unlikely, but not impossible :)
(sorry, couldn't resist)
^^that^^ You don't save every round. That would render the spell pointless.
Yeah... who said you get to save every round? That's only for Dominate.
Unless you have Slippery Mind or Greater Iron Will (then you get to try x2).
|
The "-30 Hp and Wish it dead" method existed in previous editions, but they removed it from Pathfinder. Which means that moving it elsewhere, getting super rule-bendy creative or plot device are the only ways to stop it.
Ahhh, well look at that. Learn something new every day. :)
Not that our games ever get to the level where we fight that kind of thing.
Brilliant! And in the next campaign, set a thousand years into the future, your new heroes have to deal with a hellish, blazing, fire-immune and fire-breathing Solar Tarrasque. After long enough bathing in the sun's energy, it adapted to its environment.
You can even do a Space-Campaign where the Tarraaque is eating up the chemicals that make up the sun, causing it to begin to fizzle out at an alarming rate! So then the players throw themselves into a black hole with the tarrasque, merge together into one super-being, and ho, you have just joined the ranks of the great old ones!
Yeah... who said you get to save every round? That's only for Dominate.
Unless you have Slippery Mind or Greater Iron Will (then you get to try x2).
Sorry I meant Hold. :P
have a 20th level shadow blood line sorcerer cast shades to achieve a trap the soul effect. 100% real due to blood line, no need for pesky material component.
sure it might make the first few saves, but once it fails it is trapped forever in a shadowy gem.
Of course not a good chunk of campaign history is centred around protection of said gem.
gmome sorcerer.
base cha 19
+ 6 circlet
+ 5 inherent
+5 stat boosts =35
gnome bonus +1
spell focus +1
grt spell focus +1
DC 34
Of course, when you finally kill the thing, you find out it was only a baby, and now mommy and daddy tarrasque are pissed... ;)
oooh a collection of tarrasque shadow soul gems you say?
Of course, when you finally kill the thing, you find out it was only a baby, and now mommy and daddy tarrasque are pissed... ;)oooh a collection of tarrasque shadow soul gems you say?
When they come out, they'll have repented for their crimes and ascend into Celestial Tarrasques xD.
In all your fancy figuring, you overlooked the simplest way for the spell to kill the Tarrasque.
If the spell ends while you are in a host, you return to your body (or die, if it is out of range of your current position), and the soul in the magic jar returns to its body (or dies if it is out of range). Destroying the receptacle ends the spell, and the spell can be dispelled at either the magic jar or the host's location.You now have a soulless Tarrasque. You can feed a town forever! Tarrasque is cookable, right? Sure you sacrifice yourself, but you can just use a clone or be resurrected as your body is intact.
And, due to the way magic jar works, he would to roll a 20 each round for HOURS.What? Where does it say this? If that is the way it works, whoever fixed the spell from 3.5 overlooked the fact that, statistically, there is no way the spell will EVER reach its max time. The shortest this will last is 9 hours. That is 32,400 saves (60 rounds/min * 60min/hour, if I'm right). Even if the opponent has to roll a 20, they will probably succeed before 1 hour is out (3600 saves)
I was tired when I wrote the original post, and so my wording got a little messy. There's one "attack" allowed by magic jar per creature, and only one save for it. That...was basically a brain fart.
Anyhow, yes, that is certainly a good use of Occam's Razor. Doesn't require as much work as the other method, but I was doing my best to be super thorough in ending the threat (After all, if a CE 20th level wizard got to use its form, due to the first wizard not eliminating the remains as well as possible, suddenly we have a threat worse than either the Tarrasque or a 20th level CE wizard).
Anyway, on an unrelated note I'm really pleased at this thread's reception, and that a lot of the big name users on these forums are involved. You can go on space-wizard journeys as the Tarrasque, and feed empires forever. People should know.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Of course there's the other point that the Tarrasque is an ancient offspring of Rovagug itself. More or less a demigod on it's own terms with the essence of the most powerful engine of destruction in the multiverse flowing through it's veins.
You want to expose your unprotected soul to that? Good luck...
Personally as a GM if my players tried that then I would ask for the player's character sheet. Then I would buff up using the PC's spells. Yup now the Tarrasque has spells losers!
The point is that the Tarrasque is pure Chaotic Evil in a can. You can't control the thing, nor can you possess it.
A strict RAW interpretation might go in your favour but no GM worth his salt should let you get away with that.
Too bad there isn't a spell that suppresses a creature's immunity (at best for 1 round)... because that spell (remove immunity to Polymorph), plus Pup Shape spell (Ultimate Combat), plus Permanency equals cute, lovable and harmless Tarrasque in infant form.
Of course there's the other point that the Tarrasque is an ancient offspring of Rovagug itself. More or less a demigod on it's own terms with the essence of the most powerful engine of destruction in the multiverse flowing through it's veins.
You want to expose your unprotected soul to that? Good luck...
Personally as a GM if my players tried that then I would ask for the player's character sheet. Then I would buff up using the PC's spells. Yup now the Tarrasque has spells losers!
The point is that the Tarrasque is pure Chaotic Evil in a can. You can't control the thing, nor can you possess it.
A strict RAW interpretation might go in your favour but no GM worth his salt should let you get away with that.
Chaotic Evil you say.........
I for one would totally enjoy the turn of events if this happened in a game I GM'd. But the again, I have high blood pressure, and shouldn't be worth my salt.
As a further aside, the Tarrasque cannot speak and thus any spells requiring verbal components would fail. Further, he has spell resistance, so the new-found Wizard Tarrasque must over come it, or lower it as a standard action.
Personally as a GM if my players tried that then I would ask for the player's character sheet. Then I would buff up using the PC's spells. Yup now the Tarrasque has spells losers!
Despite having 3 Int and completely unable to cast spells from Wizards or anything above 4th level for Sorcerers.
The point is that the Tarrasque is pure Chaotic Evil in a can. You can't control the thing, nor can you possess it.
Clearly you bloody can if that is what you commit your entire bloody character to doing.
A strict RAW interpretation might go in your favour but no GM worth his salt should let you get away with that.
No GM worth his salt should be a dick. There aren't a lot of GMs worth whatever value they are measured in salt, I'd say.
|
|
No GM worth his salt should be a dick. There aren't a lot of GMs worth whatever value they are measured in salt, I'd say.
Nor should players be dicks. Seriously? Building a character specifically to be a Magic Jar monkey? It's an interesting academic exercise but really how much fun is it to play a character like that? "Hah! GM screw you I have won Pathfinder!" is not the way a sensible adult plays.
Yes academically this is a fun exercise but just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.
No GM worth his salt should be a dick. There aren't a lot of GMs worth whatever value they are measured in salt, I'd say.Nor should players be dicks. Seriously? Building a character specifically to be a Magic Jar monkey? It's an interesting academic exercise but really how much fun is it to play a character like that?
The DM is arbiter of how fun it is to play characters for the players now?
And with the build posited, you would be an effective offensive Necromancer in general, not just a "Magic Jar monkey."Yes academically this is a fun exercise but just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.
Just because you can go all Judge Dredd with the players and shout "I am the law!" at them doesn't mean you should.
Huh! Whadya know I stand corrected. Doesn't make much sense to me but there you go. I'm houseruling that in my games (not that I'd ever use the Tarrasque).Chaotic Evil you say.........
It makes perfect sense - that's how those things are all done. It is too stupid to be good or evil. It's simply a destruction engine.
Oh, there's no reason to get into a wrong-bad-fun argument here.
FoC doesn't want his players using Magic Jar to dick with the herald of the apocalypse god. That's fairly reasonable, and it's his game to cooperate with his players on. I'm sure if one of his players brought up this idea as something he wanted to do, he'd probably work with them to hash out any differences on perspective (Making it CE, having possesion taint the soul of the possessor).
On the other hand, I wanna establish a Mythological French Solar Empire.
|
I'd actually been planning on a 20-level-campaign to culminate with a Tarrasque battle. Since there was no known method of "killing" it, I was actually curious to see if my group could come up with a creative way to destroy/permanently neutralize the creature.
I think if one of my players had come up with that, I would've allowed it. It's smart, it's not impossible but no obvious, and it's not really "cheese" since it's merely doing exactly what the spell descriptor says it does.
Brilliant! And in the next campaign, set a thousand years into the future, your new heroes have to deal with a hellish, blazing, fire-immune and fire-breathing Solar Tarrasque. After long enough bathing in the sun's energy, it adapted to its environment.And finally, the tranformation into Godzilla will be complete!
No, no, the Tarrasque is Anguirus.
(A big plastic Anguirus toy makes a great Tarrasque miniature!)
Tarrasque is cookable, right?
It's immune to fire, so maybe not.
Hope everyone likes reptile tartare. At very least, searing it will kill any potential germs.
Just one thing to add to this conversation...
In Golarion, in canon, it's dead. Literally, it's dead. Not sleeping, not unconscious, but dead. So, you know, it can be done. The trick is that it can also be raised... with a weird ritual involving virgins or cows or something, I don't know, it's all kind of sordid (no, seriously, it requires, something like 1,000 cows and/or virgins' blood poured into its shell, IIRC). But that's Rovagug for you. Sordid.
Each of his spawn (of which the Tarrasque is but one, and the only herald I know of) are all epic destruction machines, are all able to be killed in some way, and all save for one (or maybe two, I don't recall now) are destroyed and/or dead but still have some means of resurrection.
The Tarrasque is one of the (currently) dead ones. It was slain after it annihilated an ancient empire, granted, but it's still dead. And the grave-site is known.
Almost every country in the world claims that it was their hero who killed it, so make of that what you will.
Oh, and I'd love some reptile tartare! I detect poison, magic, and analyze dweomer first. Also remove curse. And Mage's disjunction. What? I'm paranoid!
On a vaguely related note, as the Tarrasque's regeneration never stops, and isn't overcome by acid, bludgeoning [like digestive crushing] or the like does that mean that if you eat some you'll never go hungry again, have it slowly 'regenerate' out of you like an alien's movie, simply stay in your digestive tract for seven years (like gum) or does the part you carve off rot away normally. I don't recall at the moment.
Cut off parts that are not reattached die normally -- otherwise the world would have already been overcome by skin cells that flake off and the like.
A simple bloody nose would increase the population exponentially.
Cut off parts that are not reattached die normally -- otherwise the world would have already been overcome by skin cells that flake off and the like.
A simple bloody nose would increase the population exponentially.
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they regenerate the whole creature. But yes, your point is taken and fully accepted. Is Big T's regeneration a supernatural (Su) variant of the ability? 'Cause that's weeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiirrrrrrrrrd. (Then again, no one ever said magic was science! ... oh, wait...
But the dead skin cells thing makes sense because they're dead, thus don't regenerate. ... oh, wait... :)
Just one thing to add to this conversation...
In Golarion, in canon, it's dead.
Huh? Where is this? I'd like to read up on it more.
Also, I remember one of the spawn of Rovagug to be CR 15. granted I could've misread.
|
You could always use my favorite method in which all the terrasque's defenses, including saving throws, spell resistance, and the like are completely useless against. The only caveat is you have to be fairly quick about it, but the actual perma-killing need only be done by an 8th level cleric, wizard, sorcerer, or oracle.
Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.Simply pop over to the tarrasque, throw down a desecrate spell and then cast animate dead on the corpse. Since animate dead can legally target the tarrasque while it is dead, the tarrassque animates into a giant zombie tarrasque under your control. When it does so, it loses all of special qualities, attacks, and so forth.
At which point the tarrasque's soul passes on, the tarrasque's body no longer has all the special features, and then can be destroyed easily.
You can't use animate dead because, thanks to regeneration, it is never "dead".
Regeneration (Ex) ... but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning
You could always use my favorite method in which all the terrasque's defenses, including saving throws, spell resistance, and the like are completely useless against. The only caveat is you have to be fairly quick about it, but the actual perma-killing need only be done by an 8th level cleric, wizard, sorcerer, or oracle.
Regeneration (Ex) No form of attack can suppress the tarrasque's regeneration—it regenerates even if disintegrated or slain by a death effect. If the tarrasque fails a save against an effect that would kill it instantly, it rises from death 3 rounds later with 1 hit point if no further damage is inflicted upon its remains. It can be banished or otherwise transported as a means to save a region, but the method to truly kill it has yet to be discovered.Simply pop over to the tarrasque, throw down a desecrate spell and then cast animate dead on the corpse. Since animate dead can legally target the tarrasque while it is dead, the tarrassque animates into a giant zombie tarrasque under your control. When it does so, it loses all of special qualities, attacks, and so forth.
At which point the tarrasque's soul passes on, the tarrasque's body no longer has all the special features, and then can be destroyed easily.
You can't use animate dead because, thanks to regeneration, it is never "dead".
Regeneration (Ex) ... but they cannot die as long as their regeneration is still functioning
RAW "it rises from death...". It seems to die to me, but its special regeneration brings it back to life.
RAI may make it immune to Ashiel's idea, but the RAW does not seem too.
Huh? Where is this? I'd like to read up on it more.
Also, I remember one of the spawn of Rovagug to be CR 15. granted I could've misread.
Sorry, I should have been more specific regarding "spawn". I do believe there is a creature type called "Spawn of Rovagug" or something similar (honestly, I don't know, though that sounds kind of familiar... maybe something about a "seed"... I don't recall for sure), but what I was talking about was the unique, individual Spawn of Rovagug which are all epic monsters of terror and dooooooooooooooooooom. (The extra "o"'s help make it more ominous.)
Also, though not the most clear or complete that I've read: the Tarrasque.
Also, Diego, it's a little bit weird the wording of the two - in the one (general) category it states that a creature can't die while it's regeneration is functioning, however in the Tarrasque category, it specifies that it rises "from death" in three rounds - that's a contradiction in terms if it can't die. I'm not actually disagreeing with you, in fact I think it's a more consistent ruling to say that it can't really die, however in the specific case of the Tarrasque's regeneration it separates itself from other regenerations in the general category in several ways already, which is a source for potential problems in interpretation.