Just a quick question about the above. I know that when you are unarmored, and unshielded as a monk you add your wisdom do your AC. I know that as a druid your wisdom is a very important stat. My question (s) is that in 3.5 when you polymorph/shapeshifted it only changed your physical stats, so say you turned into a wolf, you would be a wolf with 16 wisdom.
So, Question 1, since I can't find it in the Core book, if you Wild shape, do you keep your wisdom modifier?
And Question 2, If you wild shape do you keep the monks AC bonus, since as a wolf you are naked and eligible for being unarmored and unencumbered.
I suppose final question, would a monk/druid combo, get AC bonus in any wild shape form?
1) You only change the stats the spells tell you to change. For example, Beast Shape IV...
Large magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Large magical beast, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +2 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.
You only add 6 to the str, -2 to dex, and +2 to con and +6 to NA. Your wisdom doesn't change at all.
2) You are not wearing armor in wolf form, so yes, you get your wisdom bonus to AC. Provided you are not wearing wildshape armor, and are not wearing barding.
1) You only change the stats the spells tell you to change. For example, Beast Shape IV...
Large magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Large magical beast, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +2 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.You only add 6 to the str, -2 to dex, and +2 to con and +6 to NA. Your wisdom doesn't change at all.
2) You are not wearing armor in wolf form, so yes, you get your wisdom bonus to AC. Provided you are not wearing wildshape armor, and are not wearing barding.
a druid can't do magical beasts, only animals.
but your example stays the same.
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Also don't forget that you can't make a monk's flurry of blows attacks and the natural attacks of the chosen creature at the same time. Nor does the improved unarmed strike damage increase your damage with natural weapons.
no, but a druid5/monk 5 can become a bear and still flurry.
large animal + flurry of blows is good.
Also don't forget that you can't make a monk's flurry of blows attacks and the natural attacks of the chosen creature at the same time. Nor does the improved unarmed strike damage increase your damage with natural weapons.In general, polymorph effects and monks are not good combinations.
If all you're doing is a dip for bonuses to your saves and a boost to AC in animal form, it's not bad.
Four Winds dip would add damage to your strike even in animal form (although a picky GM might restrict that to apes).
Flowing Monk's Redirection ability should work fine in any form.
Maneuver Master's Maneuver Flurry should be usable in animal form as well.
Sohei's Devoted Guardian could be very useful for a wildshape build druid.
Tetori's ability affects his CMB/CMD directly, so no loss of BAB for it.
Four Winds dip would add damage to your strike even in animal form (although a picky GM might restrict that to apes).
normal monks can use unarmed damage and flurry in animal forms.
nothing in the monk class is form dependent.
a bear monk can use claws and bite OR unarmed strikes for example
I believe you are incorrect.
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
Natural Attacks are not Unarmed Strikes. They are Natural Attacks. Unarmed Strikes are treated as both weapon and natural attacks, but Natural Attacks are not Unarmed Strikes, and thus the monk cannot flurry with them.
You are correct that nothing in the monk is form dependent, but the form must have the correct ability to use them. If a form doesn't have an unarmed strike, it can't flurry. Now, what forms can't make unarmed strikes is up to the GM. Me, I usually allow it for anything that's got a head or limbs that it can strike with. Such as a head butt from a dog (but who then can't bite), or a monkey using fists and elbows. However, nothing in the Monk says you can flurry with natural attacks.
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Four Winds dip would add damage to your strike even in animal form (although a picky GM might restrict that to apes).
normal monks can use unarmed damage and flurry in animal forms.
nothing in the monk class is form dependent.
a bear monk can use claws and bite OR unarmed strikes for example
I believe you are incorrect.
Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the monk's base attack bonus is equal to his monk level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the monk uses his normal base attack bonus.
Natural Attacks are not Unarmed Strikes. They are Natural Attacks. Unarmed Strikes are treated as both weapon and natural attacks, but Natural Attacks are not Unarmed Strikes, and thus the monk cannot flurry with them.
You are correct that nothing in the monk is form dependent, but the form must have the correct ability to use them. If a form doesn't have an unarmed strike, it can't flurry. Now, what forms can't make unarmed strikes is up to the GM. Me, I usually allow it for anything that's got a head or limbs that it can strike with. Such as a head butt from a dog (but who then can't bite), or a monkey using fists and elbows. However, nothing in the Monk says you can flurry with natural attacks.
Unarmed Strike
At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet.
last i checked 99% of animals have knees and/or feet. everything but fish.
also having a natural attack doesnt prevent you from making an unarmed strike
Unarmed StrikeAt 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet.
last i checked 99% of animals have knees and/or feet. everything but fish.
also having a natural attack doesnt prevent you from making an unarmed strike
Dogs don't have elbows, or knees that you can strike with. Snakes don't have either. Cats don't have elbows or knees you can strike with either. They don't have fists either. They do have feet, but are either not situated for attacking with them, or they're strikers like hooves or have claws attached like cats. You might be able to get away with a retracted claw attack. However, all that comes down to what your GM allows, which is exactly what I said, if you had read the post.
You are correct that nothing in the monk is form dependent, but the form must have the correct ability to use them. If a form doesn't have an unarmed strike, it can't flurry. Now, what forms can't make unarmed strikes is up to the GM. Me, I usually allow it for anything that's got a head or limbs that it can strike with. Such as a head butt from a dog (but who then can't bite), or a monkey using fists and elbows. However, nothing in the Monk says you can flurry with natural attacks.
Also, you did explicitly say a Natural Attack could be used with a flurry.
a bear monk can use claws and bite OR unarmed strikes for example
And you can't.
I suspect you are both saying the same thing, just misunderstanding each other.
It comes down to this:
A monk in animal form can either make natural attacks (claw, bite and whatever) OR make his unarmed attacks. But not combine them in the same attack.
Just keep in mind that smaller animals would deal less unarmed damage. Actually not a big fan of keeping unarmed strikes in forms that differ too greatly from your base form. Unless its more of an internal damage that the monk does with his ki. (oops I was ranting there for a bit)
this is what i mean. yesI suspect you are both saying the same thing, just misunderstanding each other.
It comes down to this:
A monk in animal form can either make natural attacks (claw, bite and whatever) OR make his unarmed attacks. But not combine them in the same attack.
Ok, it just looked originally like you were saying they could flurry with natural attacks, and combine natural attacks and unarmed attacks with the flurry. Both of which are explicitly disallowed.
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Unarmed StrikeAt 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet.
last i checked 99% of animals have knees and/or feet. everything but fish.
also having a natural attack doesnt prevent you from making an unarmed strike
Dogs don't have elbows, or knees that you can strike with. Snakes don't have either. Cats don't have elbows or knees you can strike with either. They don't have fists either. They do have feet, but are either not situated for attacking with them, or they're strikers like hooves or have claws attached like cats. You might be able to get away with a retracted claw attack. However, all that comes down to what your GM allows, which is exactly what I said, if you had read the post.
You are correct that nothing in the monk is form dependent, but the form must have the correct ability to use them. If a form doesn't have an unarmed strike, it can't flurry. Now, what forms can't make unarmed strikes is up to the GM. Me, I usually allow it for anything that's got a head or limbs that it can strike with. Such as a head butt from a dog (but who then can't bite), or a monkey using fists and elbows. However, nothing in the Monk says you can flurry with natural attacks.
Also, you did explicitly say a Natural Attack could be used with a flurry.
And you can't.
a bear monk can use claws and bite OR unarmed strikes for example
you could argue human feet arent good for kicking too. I'm not trying to make a case by case judgement call.
there is no disclaimer that makes a dogs knee, a cats knee, or my knee any less viable for use in an attack. Got knees or feet or elbows or hands? yup? go ahead and attack.
for what its worth, 3.5 wizards had a gelatinous cube monk. no limbs what-so-ever and it could flurry and had unarmed strikes.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20060922a
just scroll down
Am I the only one, who disagrees with this?
The AC ability of the monk is marked as (EX). It is highly discussable whether it is connected to the body or not.
I would say so, as the monk's AC ability isn't tied to a humanoid form, otherwise you'd never had awakened animals that take levels of monks, or centaur monks because they are not humanoid shaped. Again pointing back to the gelatinous cube monk example Wizards did for 3.5 back in the day. A wild shaped or polymorphed monk doesn't lose his wisdom AC I'd say for the same reason that an elarged monk wouldn't lose his wisdom bonus to AC.
Monk's AC has nothing to do with form.
OP, if dipping Monk, I suggest using master of Many Styles, since you can't flurry and use natural weapons anyway, may as well swap it out for the ability to have 2 styles if you want. I have a build idea for druid that dips 1 level of monk that's pretty good in melee, though the casting suffers for the lost level a lot.
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The wisdom bonus to ac and the bonus to ac that increases over levels both come from the same entry. Given that, and given that wisdom is a mental stat, I would say that the ac bonus is based on mental stats and is thus not form based, and consequently works in wild shape.
Also, lots of thread necros lately.
Isn't there a feat that lets you use natural weapons when flurrying? So couldn't you take that and flurry while in bear form?
Isn't there a feat that lets you use natural weapons when flurrying? So couldn't you take that and flurry while in bear form?
Yes, but said feat wasn't around when the thread was originally made. The issue with thread necromancy is they awaken in a new era not knowing what has happened in the intervening years.
Sort of like waking up a prohibition era gangster in 2012 New York and taking him into a strip club for a drink and some fun. The guy has no idea that's legal now.
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Isn't there a feat that lets you use natural weapons when flurrying? So couldn't you take that and flurry while in bear form?Yes, but said feat wasn't around when the thread was originally made. The issue with thread necromancy is they awaken in a new era not knowing what has happened in the intervening years.
Sort of like waking up a prohibition era gangster in 2012 New York and taking him into a strip club for a drink and some fun. The guy has no idea that's legal now.
So whats the FEAT?
You cast necrothread for this?
The feat was feral combat training, but it has since been changed and no longer applies.
The issue with thread necromancy is they awaken in a new era not knowing what has happened in the intervening years.