My friend recently opened up a new LGS next to a pub. We told him he needs to tear a hole through the wall. I know lots of people who would love to see this type of thing.You know what would be an awesome draw for me and my group, that will never actually happen?
If our FLGS got a liquor license for their basement gaming space and sold beer.
I am realistic enough to know that, at least in Ontario, this opens up a WORLD of problems and difficulties for a store owner. But it's still a hell of a potential revenue stream!
I'd rather organized play could be combined with parents night out but realize that the liability issues would make the prohibitive.
i dont work in retail at all but i think its in paizo's best interest to offer support. If you owned a gaming store would you run a pathfinder event with no support or a 4E/magic event with wizards spoon feeding you formats, prizes and promos ?
Well thats right, it is in the interest of Paizo to put on activities that encourage a consumer base to buy and use their products, it is similarly of benefit to the retailer to have a support system in place, as it in turn brings in consumers. Win/Win. What I am objecting to is the tone some people seem to have which implies Paizo is somehow obliged to offer said support.
I've been at this hobby for coming on three decades now, and until PFS organised play cropped up I can only say that no games house had provided such a system to its players in this country. PFS is pioneering to be frank.
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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You know what would be an awesome draw for me and my group, that will never actually happen?
If our FLGS got a liquor license for their basement gaming space and sold beer.
I am realistic enough to know that, at least in Ontario, this opens up a WORLD of problems and difficulties for a store owner. But it's still a hell of a potential revenue stream!
This is exactly the situation at the new Card Kingdom store in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle, within walking (er, stumbling) distance from my apartment. The place is _always_ packed with gamers, and I am now running a bi-weekly Pathfinder campaign there.
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You know what would be an awesome draw for me and my group, that will never actually happen?
If our FLGS got a liquor license for their basement gaming space and sold beer.
I am realistic enough to know that, at least in Ontario, this opens up a WORLD of problems and difficulties for a store owner. But it's still a hell of a potential revenue stream!
This is exactly the situation at the new Card Kingdom store in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle, within walking (er, stumbling) distance from my apartment. The place is _always_ packed with gamers, and I am now running a bi-weekly Pathfinder campaign there.
I have got to get out of FloriDUH.
SM
You know what would be an awesome draw for me and my group, that will never actually happen?
If our FLGS got a liquor license for their basement gaming space and sold beer.
I am realistic enough to know that, at least in Ontario, this opens up a WORLD of problems and difficulties for a store owner. But it's still a hell of a potential revenue stream!
This is exactly the situation at the new Card Kingdom store in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle, within walking (er, stumbling) distance from my apartment. The place is _always_ packed with gamers, and I am now running a bi-weekly Pathfinder campaign there.
I would love it if someone opened a game store bar around here. Especially if they had good cider (for my wife, who is allergic to beer).
Of course, I miss the bear and pizza movie theaters they have up in Oregon too.
I'm conflicted right now with my own FLGS. The store is great and has really expanded it's space to run in-store gaming and events. We have a thriving PFS community there.
My problem is that I'm done with buying printed material. I don't want to own books anymore. They are heavy, clutter up the house, and aren't searchable/copy-pastable. The iPad works great to use at the table or anywhere and so all I'm interested in is to buy PDFs, which can't be done through the store.
Yes but your feelings do not seem to be the same as those in European countries that haven't seen a decade to stagnant wage growth. Could it be that you are identifying three dimensional clutter because you can not afford books and a are justifying the cheaper pdf purchase. Without the cheaper price point of pdf would you still be buying gaming material? If the answer is no than pdf's aren't killing your purchasing they're still getting you into a game store where you might buy something every now and again. Keep in mind correlation is not causation.
I should also point out the deep lineup of pathfinder products (maps, cards, minis) that can't be used as a pdf.
Remember folks as a retailer would you rather be selling stuff for a game that has 1000 players that buy books or a game that has 100,000 players that buy books and pdfs.
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This is exactly the situation at the new Card Kingdom store in the Ballard neighborhood of Seattle, within walking (er, stumbling) distance from my apartment. The place is _always_ packed with gamers, and I am now running a bi-weekly Pathfinder campaign there
Just an side, but are you sure, Erik that you don't have cause and effect mixed up there? ;) You must have quite some draw after all!
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I'm a little surprised not a single store in the greater DC (or Baltimore) area is listed on the site. I know there ARE stores around here, although many of them are shadows of their former selves. In any case, I would have thought there would be enough PFRPG players in the area that it would be worth the time of a gaming store or two to list itself on the registry here on Paizo.com.
Well the two stores I know in my area are COLLECTORS CORNER and
Hope this helps a little.
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I miss the bear and pizza movie theaters they have up in Oregon too.
Daaaaaamn! I knew life in Oregon was tough in the 1880's. But I would think 'yall figured out a way to keep bears out of movie theaters by now.
I miss the bear and pizza movie theaters they have up in Oregon too.Daaaaaamn! I knew life in Oregon was tough in the 1880's. But I would think 'yall figured out a way to keep bears out of movie theaters by now.
That's what happens when I post just after waking up. Beer goes better with pizza. :P
"I say this to Paizo: give me a reason to turn me into a loyal profit base for you. You exist to serve me. I do not exist to provide free advertising for you. You need to provide me a reason to push your product."
Just my 2 cents.
Yeaaaah. That kind of mentality is what creates an LGS, not an FLGS.
As much as I want to see the FLGS thrive and reproduce, I equally want to see stores ran by people with the mentality you just illustrated wither and die.
The reason to push Paizo's product? Because it's popular and desirable.
Paizo provides a number of marketing tools (Free RPG Day product, promotional posters, PFS, etc.) for a store to utilize - in addition to the product that the store buys for roughly half of MSRP, in order to sell and profit from the nearly 100% markup.
That's not really "free" advertising.
Not that kind of bear, not that kind of movie theater.
Been to Portland recently? :D
Daaaaaamn! I knew life in Oregon was tough in the 1880's. But I would think 'yall figured out a way to keep bears out of movie theaters by now.
Give us a break. Caulking our wagons and floating them down the Columbia was pretty rough.
We ran out of ammo to deal with the bear problem a couple weeks ago, right about the time dysentery hit us hard.
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Daaaaaamn! I knew life in Oregon was tough in the 1880's. But I would think 'yall figured out a way to keep bears out of movie theaters by now.Give us a break. Caulking our wagons and floating them down the Columbia was pretty rough.
We ran out of ammo to deal with the bear problem a couple weeks ago, right about the time dysentery hit us hard.
Hey, our mentality is "Leave the bears alone, and they'll leave you alone."
The deer, on the other hand, are like a zombie plague.
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Yeaaaah. That kind of mentality is what creates an LGS, not an FLGS.
No it creates a new 'dollar store' where the old FLGS used to be :P
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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The OP can set me straight (I haven't read through all the kabillion posts) but I think you're providing advice he/she doesn't need. To turn your quote around, I suspect the OP's response might be...
"I say this to Paizo: give me a reason to turn me into a loyal profit base for you. You exist to serve me. I do not exist to provide free advertising for you. You need to provide me a reason to push your product."
Just my 2 cents.
I think Brian and Shifty have the customer side of any response to this covered.
On the business side: I can only wish that there was a business model that existed where you opened your doors and methods for making money rained down upon you from the vendors you chose to work with. As that is a fantasy, I will continue to work at attracting a customer base and providing reasons for them to shop with me. Part of that work will be picking products I hope they like. Happily, Paizo (and many others like them) make that part easy.
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"I say this to Paizo: give me a reason to turn me into a loyal profit base for you. You exist to serve me. I do not exist to provide free advertising for you. You need to provide me a reason to push your product."
You realize of course, with a little bit of changing, that ALSO applies to customers speaking to FLGS, right?
To FLGS I say this: give me a reason to turn me in toa loyal profit base for you. You exist to serve me. I do not exist to provide free money for you. You need to provide me a reason to frequent your store."
To FLGS I say this: give me a reason to turn me in toa loyal profit base for you. You exist to serve me. I do not exist to provide free money for you. You need to provide me a reason to frequent your store."
Which is a 100% correct point of view.
If retailers can answer that challenge, their success is assured.
The stores exist to serve the customers, not the other way around.
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Which is a 100% correct point of view.If retailers can answer that challenge, their success is assured.
The stores exist to serve the customers, not the other way around.
Unfortunately, many gamers and some store owners dont seem to think so, with the "support your FLGS" mantra that has been going around.
Unfortunately, many gamers and some store owners dont seem to think so, with the "support your FLGS" mantra that has been going around.
Which is a 100% correct point of view.If retailers can answer that challenge, their success is assured.
The stores exist to serve the customers, not the other way around.
Hum didn't that die at the start of the recession, the same time the person doing the retailer advice column over at RPG.net (never discount) basically admitted that he didn't carry many RPGs anymore and retired the column/stepped down from his GAMMA position. I remember a fairly bruising thread going on about LGSs just before that happened.
Unfortunately, many gamers and some store owners dont seem to think so, with the "support your FLGS" mantra that has been going around.
Which is a 100% correct point of view.If retailers can answer that challenge, their success is assured.
The stores exist to serve the customers, not the other way around.
There may not be as much of a disconnect as you think. Many areas have more than 1 LGS. I'm sure they don't try to support them all. They pick the store(s) that provide the seervices they want to spend their money on.
You'll also notice that those who support their local store have stores that are worth supporting, at least from the posts they have left.
Unfortunately, many gamers and some store owners dont seem to think so, with the "support your FLGS" mantra that has been going around.
Which is a 100% correct point of view.If retailers can answer that challenge, their success is assured.
The stores exist to serve the customers, not the other way around.
Well, the "support your FLGS" mantra comes from a desire to preserve what is typically the only community space available to gamers. Gaming stores were traditionally where you bought your books, so the first answer people came up with to preserve that community space was "buy more books". Now that buying things through the internet has been here for ever the decade, people realize it isn't going away and new solutions need to exist.
Community spaces are important to social hobbies. As members of the hobby, we need to avail ourselves of the spaces that exist and attempt to preserve them. If brick and mortar stores are having difficulty competing in books sales, than it isn't just their responsibility to find new ways of doing business, it's also our responsibility as customers to communicate to them what we need and want. Good store owners will listen to their customers, they'll adapt and change to a new and successful model. Bad store owners will ignore their customers and probably go out of business eventually.
StuffThe problem with this attitude though is that our hobby is small and is not leaning towards growth. If people decide all they care about is cheaper books, the hobby will continue to contract, fewer books will be published, meaning the hobby contracts more until all that remains is a hobby, with no business.
Supporting a "good" FLGS helps build the hobby.
I see this popping up on the rare occasion, and I continually find it fascinating.
I care about "building the hobby" as much as I care about "building the video game industry", "building the movie rental industry", and "building the golf industry" (to use a few examples of other things I spend my entertainment dollar on). I'm sure you can imagine how much that really is. I'll buy if the product/service meets my needs and price point, otherwise I won't. If my local Best Buy can't meet my game needs, I'll get it from Amazon. If my local movie rental place can't provide my movie needs, I'll use the VOD from my local cable provider.
There isn't any "problem" with Dragnmoon's attitude at all. He has stated what's important to him, and that's that.
I see in later posts you talk about the importance of community spaces, and indeed - I'm sure that's important to some people. If community space is truly that important, then those people who find it important are sure to visit... and if there's enough of them, then the survival of the store isn't an issue. (Look! No problems!) But I, for one, am certainly not going to "support" a store that offers community space because I don't need that space.
Any interaction with gaming strangers is more than sufficiently covered by the internet when I take a breather at the office.
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Hum didn't that die at the start of the recession, the same time the person doing the retailer advice column over at RPG.net (never discount) basically admitted that he didn't carry many RPGs anymore and retired the column/stepped down from his GAMMA position. I remember a fairly bruising thread going on about LGSs just before that happened.
Really where? Because I still see that mantra going around a variety of places.
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Well, the "support your FLGS" mantra comes from a desire to preserve what is typically the only community space available to gamers. Gaming stores were traditionally where you bought your books, so the first answer people came up with to preserve that community space was "buy more books". Now that buying things through the internet has been here for ever the decade, people realize it isn't going away and new solutions need to exist.
Except its NOT the only space available to gamers. We had space long before the came around, and long after many of them die off.
No, thats NOT where we traditionally bought them. I recall WAY back when, amny of us bought them in bookstores like walden books, with the sci-fi discount card. And that was LONG before game stores, at least for me.
Community spaces are important to social hobbies. As members of the hobby, we need to avail ourselves of the spaces that exist and attempt to preserve them. If brick and mortar stores are having difficulty competing in books sales, than it isn't just their responsibility to find new ways of doing business, it's also our responsibility as customers to communicate to them what we need and want. Good store owners will listen to their customers, they'll adapt and change to a new and successful model. Bad store owners will ignore their customers and probably go out of business eventually.
Sure. But LGS arent and havent been the only place, for socialization. As pointed out....where are you now speaking to more people then any one game store could possibly hold.
There isnt, at this junction of my life, anything LGS could do to fill my needs. Looking back over the last 3 decades, (F)LGS has been detrimental, not instrumental in my gaming life, whether its RPG's or wargaming.
Its not my job to preserve a dinosaur.
The deer, on the other hand, are like a zombie plague.
An excuse to tie a pitchfork to a shotgun and attack them with it?
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On a side note, I got asked by a local council if I could cobble enough gamers together to have a games day in their community spaces on some sort of regular basis... simply put there's a lot of people with room to let crying out for people to occupy the space. I was tossing up pitching an offer to a FLGS to sponsor the space and maybe have a 'bookstand' or similar, but then there's no games store within a bajillion miles of Sydneys North Shore.
Would you as a Gamer be happy to pay a couple of dollars to use a nice airconditioned conference style room with WiFi thrown in and close to all amenities and a great coffee shop next door, loads of free parking and ready public transport access?
I'm certainly interested to hear more about this. I mostly play but have been considering trying my hand at GMing as well.
Saw a thread on another forum, bit of a different topic, but it touched on some similar ideas. It amazed me the difference.
Here: I don't care about the hobby, I got mine, what have you ever done for me?
There: I love gaming, I want to share it with as many people as possible, I want to hear new ideas and teach others my favorite ideas, I want to give back to the community
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Saw a thread on another forum, bit of a different topic, but it touched on some similar ideas. It amazed me the difference.
Here: I don't care about the hobby, I got mine, what have you ever done for me?
There: I love gaming, I want to share it with as many people as possible, I want to hear new ideas and teach others my favorite ideas, I want to give back to the community
If that's what you're taking from this thread, then you really didn't read it.
Wouldn't people just be able to use the pdf then return the book? Even if they couldn't return it they could just sell it on ebay.
Wouldn't people just be able to use the pdf then return the book? Even if they couldn't return it they could just sell it on ebay.
The first part is a concern.
The second, not so much.