I am in a group that are running an evil campaign. I never liked running evil campaign because they always end up being less fun then they actually sound. With most players end up being 1 dimensional kill crazy party.
So I am running a Star Wars Role Playing campaign, but my question is just a general DM question. Two players both want to create a Sith army, one is a wookiee sith, the other one is just a normal sith and base his character after Darth Bane, and god will he not shut up about those books :p .
Originally this was planned to be a Bounty Hunter campaign, but since I was the first DM to actually allow players to pick evil characters, EVERYONE ONE PICKED EVIL! Not just greedy bounty hunter evil, which would have been great, I mean evil dictators type evils...
I honestly do not know what to do with this campaign. I should let them build up their armies, but what would that actually entail? They both agreed to get the leadership feat at level 7, so they could actually have followers.
but yeah, I don't know what they would do from session to session. granted they are right now at square 1, no money, no ship, no base, Star Wars role playing doesn't actually have a wealth per level though, so I don't know how that will pan out for cohorts. Anything I can think of sounds great, but in practice would be really boring for the players. "You set on your throne, what do you do. I ORDER EVIL! Ok, you send your henchmen to do things. You are still setting on your throne. I WAIT UNTIL THEY RETURN FROM EVIL! Ok its 4 days later, they have returned..." I'll be honest, if the movies actually followed empire Palpatine, they would have been hell-a boring, or extremely good depending on the director, we would have gotten some sudo political drama. "Which didn't work for Episode 1-3 if I recall correctly :p"
So right now, they have no money, no ship, no army, and stuck on a planet Yavin 4, in which they where trying to invade, "post return of the jedi". The next few session will probably be more about getting out of that situation, but in the long run, I don't know how to DM an "army of darkness" without making it seem like needless micro management, or how to even let the player get said army.
So...
4 guys are going to invade the Jedi Training Academy? I don't think you have much to worry about. Just hope they don't ask to meet Kyp Duron, I guess. Do NOT let them get a death star. Or a star destroyer. Or a sun crusher. Or a Mon cal cruiser. Or a corellian ANYTHING.
Well, they where with an army, and the invasion failed, "Events of Jedi Outcast" now they are trying to GTFO off the planet.
Well, it sounds like you've encountered a situation that's a bit above what you expected. Nothing like trial by fire. Seems like the players have a few grandiose plans that seem a bit daunting to gm for. A lot of uncertainties. OTOH, you've got a cohesive goal for them, and being a manipulative dictator is better than psychopathic killers simply b/c you have a status quo you need to create and invest into, and attachments to form. This can give you your ways to "hook" the players and get them into invest into the setting.
For example, when I was running a nontraditional supers game with villains wanting to build up good reputations for their characters and then exploit them. At the beginning, I would hit them with traditional superhero stories (defeating other bad guys, etc) and see how they reacted to that. Generally, the urge to build reputation and loot the other bad guys arsenals were enough to get them involved. I'm not that familiar with Star Wars, but I'm assuming they, like Palapatine, may want to be able to use deception at some point on their road to power?
In any case, it sounds like they've got a long road to go before they can even think of building an army. Escaping, getting the funding, these can all be used as adventure hooks for whatever missions you think might be fun. And when, and if, it gets to the point where they're sending out henchmen and the like, would it be possible to get your players to play the henchmen in the missions themselves? Might be a nifty way to play a wide variety of interlocked one shots or short term games in a short amount of time, all enmeshed in a larger narrative.
Ultimately, though, it'll be up to you and your players to decide what set up works for this. If you've got serious reservations about this, talking and collaborating with them on the future of the campaign may be your best option.
Well, it sounds like you've encountered a situation that's a bit above what you expected. Nothing like trial by fire. Seems like the players have a few grandiose plans that seem a bit daunting to gm for. A lot of uncertainties. OTOH, you've got a cohesive goal for them, and being a manipulative dictator is better than psychopathic killers simply b/c you have a status quo you need to create and invest into, and attachments to form. This can give you your ways to "hook" the players and get them into invest into the setting.
For example, when I was running a nontraditional supers game with villains wanting to build up good reputations for their characters and then exploit them. At the beginning, I would hit them with traditional superhero stories (defeating other bad guys, etc) and see how they reacted to that. Generally, the urge to build reputation and loot the other bad guys arsenals were enough to get them involved. I'm not that familiar with Star Wars, but I'm assuming they, like Palapatine, may want to be able to use deception at some point on their road to power?
In any case, it sounds like they've got a long road to go before they can even think of building an army. Escaping, getting the funding, these can all be used as adventure hooks for whatever missions you think might be fun. And when, and if, it gets to the point where they're sending out henchmen and the like, would it be possible to get your players to play the henchmen in the missions themselves? Might be a nifty way to play a wide variety of interlocked one shots or short term games in a short amount of time, all enmeshed in a larger narrative.
Ultimately, though, it'll be up to you and your players to decide what set up works for this. If you've got serious reservations about this, talking and collaborating with them on the future of the campaign may be your best option.
Yes, those are indeed good ideas. So for a good long while most sessions will probably just be them building up reputation and capital then?
The thing about the Sith is that they don't work well together. They will try to stab each other in the back at the first opportunity. So even if they build their army that doesn't mean they will have an easy time keeping it together especially if they don't have a clear enemy for the characters to point said army at and that's assuming they continue to be successful in their raids and attacks any weakness real or perceived will incite such a group to turn on their leaders. Heck it was hard enough to keep the Emperor and Darth Vader together with out them turning on each other and their was only two of them and a whole empire to share between them. All kinds of role playing opportunities
I've played in evil star wars campaigns before. Some general comments:
1) Raising a sith army from nothing isn't easy. You've typically got to work your way there through another route, among those being:
pirate
criminal empire
politics
military mutiny
Each of these routes lends itself to adventure plots that could/should take years of gameplay to achieve.
2) Once you 'win' that still doesn't mean you're just sitting on a throne being awesome and bored. When the good guys attack, the good guy heros always seem to infiltrate the bad guy lair and challenge the bad guy to a scene of roleplaying exposition followed by a lightsaber battle.
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I'll be honest, if the movies actually followed empire Palpatine, they would have been hell-a boring, or extremely good depending on the director, we would have gotten some sudo political drama.
If it went anything like how robot chicken envisioned it I would watch that over actual star wars any day, and I LOVE star wars.
First I will say that people say Good is dumb which is hardly the truth, at least in the Star Wars sagas but it really was just that Evil was really good at staying in the shadows.
Make sure there is a consequence for every evil action they do unless they cover their tracks well.
They don't seem to smart to take on the Jedi Academy so don't hold back. As soon as the good guys know what is going on they come on in full force and they can do this openly except in dodgy areas but those dodgy areas that can keep a bad guy safe can also kill him.
If somehow they manage to get an army started then make it so any time they argue with each other that effects the troops. Perhaps they loose confidence or they will get greedy and turn on their masters, hey it has happened before, again and again and again.
Evil is often greedy for power so be sure to tempt them. Perhaps introduce a rule that if they turn or defeat another Sith then their power grows even more. Kind of like from the good old days of Vampire the Masquerade.
Don't forget the Hutts, despite being really good at delivering pizza they are also the mafia of the stars; sorry couldn't resist the spaceball joke. They might help the PCs if there is a lot of profit but are just as likely to stab them in the back because they are horning on to their territory. The Hutts are also resistant to Force mind powers.
Not only the hutts but also the entire underword might get in there way for some reason.
Make sure that they need to understand that often the path to power is politics. Palpatine was a good example of this.
Anyways, hope that helps.
I think if there were a story following Palpatine there would be a lot more individual evildoing than he is getting credit for here. Sure everything he did in the timeline of the movies was shadowy and political but that was already the endgame for him. We have to remember that he was one of the most powerful beings in the galaxy before the beginning of episode 1. Imo a comparison to anakin would be much more appropriate.
You need to remind your young future evil bosses that they are b*%##es, and if they don't go out into the galaxy and earn a name for themselves that is what they will remain.
High level former imperial warlords and crime bosses are everywhere and just waiting to hire/force your players to do all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons. High level alliance will hunt them to put a stop to their shenanigans.
"You set on your throne, what do you do. I ORDER EVIL! Ok, you send your henchmen to do things. You are still setting on your throne. I WAIT UNTIL THEY RETURN FROM EVIL! Ok Luke Freaking Skywalker killed all your minions and it was so easy for him it wasn't exciting enough to make it into any of the books what do you do next?"
Fixed that for you.
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Well, I would suggest immediately deciding whether you'll be playing a "pvp" campaign or not. While sith traditionally kill their allies, for a long term roleplaying game you might want to set it off limits.
The second thing here is that an evil campaign is far more player-driven, and thus they'll need a broader base of information they can research. What might be interesting to do is to have them set up a sort of spy network. Each player can get certain tidbits depending on their roll. What they share, or pursue is up to them. That way, they can open up more secretive plots than a standard campaign would allow.
And, of course, if they fail to cover their tracks, then someone comes after them. Probably while they're in the middle of some scheme or other.
I would also think about instituting unique game mechanics similar to kingmaker that streamline everything for you.
For one adventure, you could put them up against a group of Jedi trying to get some sort of artifact. Have this be an artifact that will increase their leadership ability in some way. They won't be able to just ignore the hook, since if they do the Jedi will get the artifact and use it against them. You could run several subplots based off this idea that will keep them busy for a while.
I would not make the campaign about running an empire, but about them building the empire, and I would probably have them work together so there is no PvP.
If you do the "run an empire" thing then make it mostly background stuff. You might was to look at the Kingmaker books for this.
I'll just offer my 2 cents as a fan of the Star Wars movies (and the genre in general) and a long-time DM. Evil characters have twice the enemies to worry about: good guys out to put an end to them and other evil guys who don't want the additional competition! Exploit that to your adventure-creating benefit.
But as someone pointed out already, I was under the impression that the Sith liked to have one master and one apprentice. Are the PC's servants of the same Sith Lord? If so, use the Lord as a metaplot hook to keep them busy while they are building up their own power under his/her tutelage. The villain-as-benefactor plot hook can work if done properly. Eventually, the benefactor will perceive the PC's as threats to their power, though, so plan accordingly.
As far as how to design adventures that challenge your PC's, I'm afraid I can't help you there. I don't know anything about the Star Wars rpg. Just remember that the more you can keep the PC's busy with tasks from someone they can't refuse, the less you have to worry about them coming up with bizarre schemes to take over the galaxy...at least for a while anyway. Good luck!
Where is this king maker everyone keeps talking about.
Also, since the star wars d20 rule book doesn't actually have wealth per player. How should I balance leadership? Since that is the core factor with leadership. Technically, the weapons you get at the start of the campaign can easily last you the entire game, with how these rules are set up. Should the cohort be 4 levels lower? Maybe they can only be npc versions of classes?
So far, there has only been two sessions with the campaign. The campaign started with the invasion failing, their "boss" who is now dead, screwed up the invasion, base on star wars story anyway.
One of the players actually got himself captured, because he tried to blow up the base on his own, since another player fired a few warning shots at him, telling him if "You get in my way ect..." being evil, that was all fine, but there is literally no logical reason ether player actually should want to work together. I'm actually having problem with this players character, the one that ran away. He is based on a childhood Id he use to write short stories about when he was 13.
You know, the "hardcore punisher, don't give a f##& anti-hero", who is completely anti social, and is next to impossible to work with unless he is the leader. Basically, he was arrested instead of killed because the player protested that he won't play anymore if he died. He is really attach to this character. He actually had him in 3 other campaigns, two of which he was out right killed by the party for being evil "NO YOU GUYS MISS UNDERSTAND HIM", and the final time because the DM got bored after one session, not because of him.
The other three players. One of them I didn't care at the time and just said he is a geonosian "those bug guys from episode 2 that some how has 2 extra arms now" and let him play as a thri-kreen he is a min maxed thri-kreen who rolled two 18s, and I swear didn't give himself any negatives on the other stats, and was trying to run him as a level five character, when he should only be ran as a level 1 character, now level 2 since the part is now at level 6. So he has 22 dex, and 20 strength. As far as role playing, he doesn't really care, so long as he uses multiweapon fighting general grievous style to dominate combat, also a jedi class. I was thinking dirty fighting to blind and grapple him to show how bad of an idea it is to min max, but I don't want to out right make a characters meant to counter my players.
The other two players really just have normal characters, they both rolled high though, but they just want to be Siths, build an army, take over the universe. One of them didn't really put much thought into, he just want to make a wookiee sith army, since he is a wookiee and take over. I was probably just going to have him doing it under the guise of "Freedom" since the wookiees have a tendency of getting enslaved, even when they aren't suppose to be.
The Other Sith character gave me this back story where he was a child with his father hidding on Korriban because of mob reasons ect. Dead dies, he is alone, evil sith sprites tell him to become a new bringer of the sith, teach him the darkside, ect ect. When you lived for thousands of years as a sith lord, you take anything you can get, so just because they are ancient doesn't meant they have any higher success rate.
So yeah, that's the party.
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Well, tell the problem player that, if he doesn't want the other players to end up killing his character, he has to figure out his own reasons for COOPERATING with them.
You've already given in to the *My way or I QUIT* threat once. A player that actually uses that will tend to fall back on it more often once he realizes that it works.
So you need to make clear to him that it was a one-time deal only, and that he'd better give the other players a good reason to keep his character alive because next time he'll suffer the consequences of his actions.
If he does end up leaving, then despite how good a friend he might be, he's just not someone you want to play rpgs with.
As far as kingmaker goes...
http://paizo.com/pathfinder/adventurePath/kingmaker
:)