I have a lot of ladies in my games, and they like to shop, even though it's just make-believe. Believe me, going to town to buy non-magical jewelry, clothes that offer no AC bonus, fancy hats, baskets, nice little boxes, etc., do still matter to some players.
Brunnwald, I also have a mostly female gaming group, and indeed, shopping is a big deal. I recommend the "Kaiser's Bazaar" series, it has all kinds of items from furniture to expensive magical clothing that changes color or gleams with moonlight. Very cool stuff for your ladies to have outfits made out of.
I have a lot of ladies in my games, and they like to shop, even though it's just make-believe. Believe me, going to town to buy non-magical jewelry, clothes that offer no AC bonus, fancy hats, baskets, nice little boxes, etc., do still matter to some players.
Brunnwald, I also have a mostly female gaming group, and indeed, shopping is a big deal. I recommend the "Kaiser's Bazaar" series, it has all kinds of items from furniture to expensive magical clothing that changes color or gleams with moonlight. Very cool stuff for your ladies to have outfits made out of.
Strange, I play in two groups one all male(20+ years together) and the other half n' half (about 6months), it is definitely the guys from both groups that are most interested in "shopping" trips in game. Out of game with the half n half group, it is currently my first experience with so much home baked goods and knitting at the game table.
Greg
It's not that specific must have items are missing, but more when an odd bit comes up there no listed price or weight to go by.
No, I've never bought firewood. But if I'm going to be carrying a supply of it for any length of time (say in the mountains above the tree line) I need to know the weight.
It's not the list of what can be bought so much as the list of values and weights.
I mean how much can I sell this silver hairbrush for?
How much do 6 silver place settings weigh?
How much can I get for this brass chandelier? And how much does it weigh?
There is no way for the book to list every possible item with its value and weight. The items in the rule book are simply a guide and are an attempt to address the most common items characters need. It is the GM's responsibility to translate that into prices and weights of other items.
How much is a silver hairbrush? How much of the brush is silver? How does that compare to the weight of silver coins? Does it have an aesthetic value? Brass chandelier, same thing.
Sometimes the GM simply has to wing it.
Rogue: "How much is this painting on the wall worth?"
GM: "Well, make an appraise check."
Rogue: "19"
GM: "Well, you believe you recognize the work of D'Artman the Magnificent. At an appropriate art auction you feel a masterpiece of that quality should bring 2,500g."
Two days later:
Rogue: "I will sell you this D'Artman original for a mere 2,000g!"
Art Dealer: "What are you talking about? That's no D'Artman!"
It's not that specific must have items are missing, but more when an odd bit comes up there no listed price or weight to go by.
No, I've never bought firewood. But if I'm going to be carrying a supply of it for any length of time (say in the mountains above the tree line) I need to know the weight.
It's not the list of what can be bought so much as the list of values and weights.
I mean how much can I sell this silver hairbrush for?
How much do 6 silver place settings weigh?
How much can I get for this brass chandelier? And how much does it weigh?
So it would almost make more sense to have a section separate from adventuring gear, that simply lists common goods?
Also...a brass chandelier? o_O My groups are never, uh, quite that thorough. I can see the importance of having at least a ballpark estimate though.
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I find the concept of generically 'standard' gear a weird one. If, for example, you're playing an urban character in an urban setting, then why in the nine hells would you be lugging around a backpack and a bedroll? Beyond the clothes on your back and the tools of your trade (be they weapons or a spell component pouch or a holy symbol or lock picks) then most stuff seems circumstantial... although all gear can be useful, with enough thought.
On the other hand, a bear trap costs 2gp, and is strangely useful in all sorts of places... ;)
There is no way for the book to list every possible item with its value and weight. The items in the rule book are simply a guide and are an attempt to address the most common items characters need. It is the GM's responsibility to translate that into prices and weights of other items.
How much is a silver hairbrush? How much of the brush is silver? How does that compare to the weight of silver coins? Does it have an aesthetic value? Brass chandelier, same thing.
I find the following terribly useful for those days your players want to take the adamantine doors from the dungeon and sell them to the dwarven smith in town. :D
From v3.5's Rules of the Game: Carrying Things (Part 3):
The equipment tables in the Player's Handbook don't quite cover everything a character might decide to pick up and carry. Here are weight figures for a few such items.
Item; Weight
Armchair; 20 lb.
Chair, simple; 5 lb.
Door, iron; 3,200 lb.
Door, stone; 2,200 lb.
Door, simple wooden; 150 lb.
Door, good wooden; 225 lb.
Door, strong wooden; 350 lb.
Footstool; 2 lb.
Petrified creature; x8 lb.
Spirits, cask; 18 lb.
Spirits, hogshead; 750 lb.
Spirits, keg; 90 lb.
Spirits, barrel; 375 lb.
Statue, Colossal metal; 1,750 tons
Statue, Colossal stone; 1,250 tons
Statue, Gargantuan metal; 875 tons
Statue, Gargantuan stone; 625 tons
Statue, Huge metal; 112 tons
Statue, Huge stone; 80 tons
Statue, Large metal; 14 tons
Statue, Large stone; 10 tons
Statue, Medium metal; 3,500 lb.
Statue, Medium stone; 2,500 lb.
Statue, Small metal; 420 lb.
Statue, Small stone; 300 lb.
Table, banquet; 225 lb.
Table, small; 60 lb.
Tapestry; 100 lb.
Workbench; 300 lb.
Here are a few notes to clarify the table entries.
Armchair: This entry assumes fine hardwood construction and a leather or cloth cover. The weight given is for a chair built for a Medium creature. Cut the weight in half for each size category below Medium and double the weight for each size category above Medium.
Chair, Simple: This is a plain chair made from inexpensive hardwood, and it has no arms. See the armchair entry to adjust the weight for larger or smaller creatures.
Doors: All doors are assumed to be 8 feet high and 5 feet wide, with thickness as noted on Table 3-10 in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The listed weight includes hinges, handle, and lock appropriate for the door's overall construction.
Footstool: This assumes a plain, wooden stool about 6 inches high, with a round top about 18 inches across.
Petrified Creature: To calculate a petrified creature's weight, multiply the creature's normal weight by 8 and add the weight of any gear the creature was carrying at the time of petrification. When a creature is magically turned to stone, it and all its gear turn to stone. This tends to make metal gear weigh a little less, but nonmetal gear gets heavier, so the two tend to average out.
Table, Banquet: This table is built to comfortably seat twelve Medium creatures (about 4-1/2 feet wide and 8 feet long). See the armchair entry to adjust the weight for a table built to seat larger or smaller creatures.
Table, Small: The represents a plain wooden table that might be found in a modest home or merchant's shop. It's big enough to seat six Medium creatures (about 3-1/2 feet wide and 7 feet long). See the armchair entry to adjust the weight for a table built to seat larger or smaller creatures.
Spirits: The spirits entry assumes a barrel-shaped container made from hardwood staves and iron hoops. A cask contains 2 gallons of liquid, a hogshead holds 88 gallons, a keg holds 10 gallons, and a barrel holds 44 gallons. You can use these figures for any liquid-based contents. Containers with dry contents might weigh anywhere from one quarter to two-thirds as much.
Statues: Metal statues assume hollow construction from bronze or wrought iron. Stone statues are solid marble. Statue sizes refer to creature sizes from Table 7-1 in the Monster Manual, and they represent figures in the mid range for each size category. A statue of the listed size could easily weigh anywhere from one half to twice the listed weight. All statue weights include an attached base or pedestal.
Tapestry: Assumes a woven wool tapestry about 10 feet square and about 1/4 inch thick. You also can use this figure for carpets or rugs.
Workbench: This is a bench about 3 feet high, 3 feet wide, and 8 feet long, with sturdy legs and top and a shelf or footrest below.
I'm the Rules Lawyer From Hell. I have to be familiar with even such insignificant details as these. :P
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How much can I get for this brass chandelier? And how much does it weigh?Also...a brass chandelier? o_O My groups are never, uh, quite that thorough. I can see the importance of having at least a ballpark estimate though.
One of my favorite characters of all time, Elar Stravan, was originally created specifically to mock my own players tendency to do exactly this. Elar's weapon of choice was a "large crowbar" (treated as a maul), and his primary motivation to adventure was entrepreneurial. He didn't give a crap about the BBEG or the plot, he was just interested in how much he could get for the villain's four poster bed on the antiquities market. He also was full of schemes to turn every dungeon cleared into a resort/casino.
I would say Elar was willing to salvage anything not nailed down, even if it was worth only a few coppers, but thanks to his crowbar he was willing to go after a lot of stuff that was nailed down. Did you know there is an aftermarket for used doors?
I also have idea of with players that loot everything the dungeons might need tools in them as well. Which can help with making the dungeons realistic without the Gm having to make up prices. There is a chance a hungry monster could break into a dungeon by breaking down the door and the dungeon residents kill him so a hammer and saw will be useful in the dungeon to make repairs.
holly and mistletoe? no one? Its free and weightless... I carry tons of it, always, regardless of character.
holly and mistletoe? no one? Its free and weightless... I carry tons of it, always, regardless of character.
I probably stopped carrying that and other "magical herbs" when the rules allowed you to purchase a spell component pouch which presumably includes holly and mistletoe.
But that brings back memories...
Holy water? I didn't mention holy water? Wooden stakes? Wolfsbane? Potion bandolier? Sleeve-mounted dagger? Boot with hollow heel? Steel file? Pebble with continual light cast on it in a tube with a levered up lid?
What am I missing....
What am I missing....
Marbles - nice for slowing pursuit at low levels...and for checking slopes in dungeons ("weren't we supposed to be going up?").
Soap
Perfume/Cologne - all my characters have soap and perfume. Just because you spend a lot of time in the wilderness/dungeons doesn't mean you hafta look or smell like it, after all. Besides, don't you want the bards to sing songs about "the beautiful sorceress" instead of "the filthy witch-woman"? ^_-
Marbles - nice for slowing pursuit at low levels...and for checking slopes in dungeons ("weren't we supposed to be going up?").
+1
This is clever, I personally think of a plumb bob in this situation.
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I'm working on some houserules, and I'm looking at the d20PFSRD equipment list and finding it a bit...excessive. So, which items do you think are absolutely critical to any adventurer? Are there items listed that you can't even imagine a use for? Has anyone ever actually needed to buy a basket or a block and tackle?
At one point or another in the games I've played in ofer the years I've used just about everything on the equipment list. Just last night a shovel and a hand mirror saved the day.
If I had to choose something that needed to be on a pared down list it would be the shovel.
Marbles - nice for slowing pursuit at low levels...and for checking slopes in dungeons ("weren't we supposed to be going up?").
+1
This is clever, I personally think of a plumb bob in this situation.
Plumb bob works too, but like Alton Brown, I try not to take unitaskers if I can get multitask items instead.
Iron spikes and a hammer are always an excellent idea. Also manacles and a decent lock for when you need to hang someone upside down in your portable hole for a few weeks.
The one thing you never go without is a good towel. Should only cost about a s liver piece.
Now there's an adventurer who really knows where his towel is. ;)
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Everything has a use. The problem is that magic items, and the boring nature of using some of the items can make them feel useless. For example, water skins might not be used at all but we all know the characters need to carry water somehow.
Every item has a good use though. Most of them are clever.
Candles don't just shed light, they provide melted wax you can pack into closed doors. Later, you can check to see if those doors have been opened. This is really useful in taverns.
The pound of powder doesn't just help find invisible creatures, you can use it on the floor to keep track of who and what is moving through the area. You can also use it along with that waterskin to make a paste, the applications of which are many.
Most of the time, the Creative uses of items is ignored. It pays when the items are really used well.
There was a wonderful article in one of the Dragon magazines. I will see if I can find it. It talked about all the different uses for the mundane items.
I also really enjoy books that have lots and lots of items. I have two 2nd Ed books full of items for all classes, as well as different foods, laboratory supplies, and toys. Much of it won't really be bought by PCs, but they make great treasure. People like seeing a cask of ale, they love having a name attached to it, or hearing that it tastes way better the the cheap stuff they just had at the tavern.
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One of my long running Pcs has an office built in town and has much of the decor looted from dungeons. From the art and trophies on the wall to his clerk's (a rescued slave so he counts to) fancy quills and inkwell.
Another in kingmaker has every conceivable mundane gear loaded on a mule drawn wagon. Hell we gotta explore, might not sell civilization for weeks so skip out on nothing that can be used to stay safe and comfortable as you can
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Everything has a use. The problem is that magic items, and the boring nature of using some of the items can make them feel useless. For example, water skins might not be used at all but we all know the characters need to carry water somehow.
Every item has a good use though. Most of them are clever.
Candles don't just shed light, they provide melted wax you can pack into closed doors. Later, you can check to see if those doors have been opened. This is really useful in taverns.
The pound of powder doesn't just help find invisible creatures, you can use it on the floor to keep track of who and what is moving through the area. You can also use it along with that waterskin to make a paste, the applications of which are many.
Most of the time, the Creative uses of items is ignored. It pays when the items are really used well.
There was a wonderful article in one of the Dragon magazines. I will see if I can find it. It talked about all the different uses for the mundane items.
I also really enjoy books that have lots and lots of items. I have two 2nd Ed books full of items for all classes, as well as different foods, laboratory supplies, and toys. Much of it won't really be bought by PCs, but they make great treasure. People like seeing a cask of ale, they love having a name attached to it, or hearing that it tastes way better the the cheap stuff they just had at the tavern.
Hell yeah, i loved the silly certs in living campaigns. Gp value is nice but i love the fluff
The first part made me giggle. Does that make me a bad person?I have a lot of ladies in my games, and they like to shop, even though it's just make-believe. Believe me, going to town to buy non-magical jewelry, clothes that offer no AC bonus, fancy hats, baskets, nice little boxes, etc., do still matter to some players.
But the most important thing not to discount is the GM's ability to MAKE something necessary, or to work the seemingly unnecessary things into an adventure. It can add realism, character, color and flavor to an adventure, just to shut the magic item chapter and tool around a bit with the standard equipment list.
I'm with you....the first part sound funny
And a Babel fish.
Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy taught me none of this is necessary; just bring a towel.
Thsi takes me back. The first D&D game I ever DMed for, my friends at the time tried to create characters based after the characters in HGTTG. Fun times.
The one thing you never go without is a good towel. Should only cost about a s liver piece.Now there's an adventurer who really knows where his towel is. ;)
Hoopy!
All characters I create have various items from the equipment list, going from "life support" (tent, rations, etc) to "light" (torch, flint, etc) to "skills" (healing kit, climbing kit, etc). All items under "alchemic substances" too - cost less than magical items. And caltrops. And spare clothes. And an armor I can sleep in.
The water clock is misplaced, though. It should belong to the (yet to appear) list of furniture and other household items. But Pathfinder&D&D are mostly about adventuring, alas...
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We we're fourth level and had just netted ourselves about 75,000 GP.
Of course, the strict WBL crew here would have had you return to town to discover that your home and all posessions not taken on the adventure had burned to the ground. And then invisible thieves would steal everything else you owned that night.