So if you kill an outsider, like a demon or a devil and you kill it, its body apparently disappears and it goes back to its home plane.
My question is, if you cast dimensional anchor on the outsider, can you kill it permanently on the material plane?
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So if you kill an outsider, like a demon or a devil and you kill it, its body apparently disappears and it goes back to its home plane.
My question is, if you cast dimensional anchor on the outsider, can you kill it permanently on the material plane?
Planar Ally and Planar Binding bring them over "for real' and when killed that way they are dead.
If its going to fade on death its just a "copy" and not the real thing. Dim Anchor wouldn't change that AFAIK.
I believe there is wording somewhere (or maybe this is 3.5 lore I am remembering) that when you kill a demon/devil on the Material Plane, all that happens is it is banished back to hell/the abyss and cannot return to the material plane for one hundred years.
If that is still true in Pathfinder, then I would say dimensional anchor does not help any more than it prevents a mortal's soul from leaving their body and going to the Outer Planes.
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The difference is between being Summoned and Called.
check Summoning and Calling in this page
A summoned creature can't be permanently killed and work in a way similar to someone using astral projection.
A called creature has a real physical presence and leave behind his body and gear.
A creature stepping through a permanent gate or another "passage" between the planes bring with it his physical body, so it work like a called creature.
thank you very much for the clarification
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Outside the Abyss: If a demon is killed on another plane,
its body eventually returns to the Abyss—unless trapped
through magical means, such as a dimensional anchor spell.
(See the Demonic Death Throes sidebar for more details on
how demon bodies sometimes disappear.) No matter what
happens to the demon’s body, if it is killed outside the Abyss,
its “essence” falls back into the raw chaos of the Abyss, where
it is then be reformed as a new demon.
It is unclear whether these reincarnated demons begin
again at the bottom of the cycle, or if they are just demoted,
but everyone seems certain that death can only be seen as
a failure for a demon, so it is unlikely to avoid punishment
altogether. Thus, when a demon dies on another plane, it risks
falling back into the general pool of demonspawn and can
find itself “demoted” in power and essence, which is not to be
taken lightly. For example, a vrock sent to wreak havoc on the
Material Plane faces a very real danger if it fails in its mission.
If the PCs defeat it and send it shrieking back to the Abyss,
it can fi nd itself back in the body of a dretch, a rutterkin, or
even a mane. Even balors risk this eternal cycle when they
battle for their Abyssal lords. Only the direct intervention
of a demon prince can possibly spare this punishment.
The important exception to all of this occurs when a demon
is summoned out of the Abyss magically, in which case it
simply returns unharmed when the spell ends (or when the
demon is destroyed), no matter what happens to it in the
meantime. Thus, demons summoned to the Material Plane
have little fear of death.
Within the Abyss: If a demon is killed while within the
Abyss, it is permanently destroyed—both its body and its
essence. For this reason, many demons are relatively more
cautious on their home turf than when wreaking havoc on
another plane. While a demotion through reincarnation is
not ideal, most demons view it as a much better option than
complete annihilation.DEMONIC DEATH THROES
“. . . and as the marilith’s head fell from its shoulders, blood bubbled
forth. Tiny grubs swam in the gore, and as we watched, they consumed
the demon’s body and attempted to crawl away to freedom.
Revolted, we threw the stone table onto the corpse, hoping to squash
the foul creatures. Later, when we cleared away the broken stone,
we found only the demon’s swords and a spattering of black and red
blood. The larvae were gone.”
—“The Battle of Darkspur,” as related in the Black Scrolls
of Ahm
Spoiler:When a balor dies, it explodes in a blinding flash of light and
flame that consumes its corpse and sends whatever soul it possesses
shrieking back to the Abyss. Few lesser demons die as
spectacularly, but neither do they usually just fall to earth and rot.
The following table includes suggestions of what might occur
when a demon dies outside the Abyss.
Demonic Death Throes
d20 Effect
1 The corpse melts into a pool of black, tarlike ichor.
2 The head (or what remains of it) begins cursing in
a dozen different languages and voices, after which
the corpse simply winks out of existence.
3 Two snakes force their way out of the killing wound
and begin devouring the corpse from either end. If
attacked, the snakes disappear along with the
remains.
4 The corpse crumbles to dust, leaving enough
powdery remains to fi ll a small bag.
5 The fl esh of the demon rots away (as if a hundred
years pass by in an instant), leaving behind only a
skeleton.
6 Half the demon’s body is engulfed in fl ame
(harmless to nearby characters), while the other
half freezes solid and falls to the ground, shattering.
7 A hole opens up in the fabric of the universe, and
an unseen force sucks the demon into the hole with
a loud “pop.”
8 The skin of the demon peels away, leaving its
muscles and organs exposed.
9 All the bones and muscle tissue in the demon leak
out its wounds in purple, smoking rivulets of blood.
The remaining sac of skin bubbles quietly on the
ground.
10 The body discorporates into a foul-smelling mist.
11 Sparks and lightning burst around the killing
wound, blackening the demon’s skin. In moments,
the lightning consumes the corpse, leaving a
smoldering spot on the ground.
12 The demon’s body immediately transforms into
stone and shrinks down to the size of a tiny statuette.
13 Vermin explode out of the corpse, consuming it and
then fl eeing in all directions.
14 The demon turns translucent and then disappears
in an explosive fl ash of light, leaving its shadow
image on all nearby walls.
15 The demon’s skeleton tears itself free of its fl esh,
takes three steps, and then crumbles into dust.
16 Shadowy hands reach up from the fl oor and pull the
corpse into the ground, leaving behind no sign of
the demon.
17 As the demon falls, its corpse explodes into tiny,
1-inch-high duplicates of itself. The tiny demons
immediately begin fi ghting among themselves until
only one remains, which then vanishes in a puff of
smoke.
18 Blinding, yellow light explodes out of the demon’s
eyes and ears. Cracks appear in the creature’s skin
as the light spreads, consuming the fi end’s body in
harmless but spectacular energy.
19 The demon falls to the ground, and its fl esh rots
away in an instant, leaving behind a sickly odor.
The bones remain, but they will turn to dust at the
slightest pressure.
20 Nothing special. The demon expires as if it were a
normal, Material Plane creature.
I like this page, so there. I don't remember any other mention of a dimensional anchor effect on outsider corpses, in 3.5 or pathfinder, but we can assume it's the same, except for the death throws.
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FC:I talking about demonic death throes was a really nice bit of work. :)
The topic of 'what happens to a fiend's body/essence if you kill it and where' is something that massively varies by just about every source that covers the topic. Usually it just doesn't get covered.
I have my own preference, but I wouldn't necessarily make it a blanket case for everyone to use. I typically have something similar to the FC:I idea, with no true physical body being left behind, and the fiend's essence migrating back to their home plane to either regenerate slowly or be absorbed back into their home plane to subsequently be belched back out as a new fiend, or a dozen new fiends, each being a hodgepodge of similarly recycled fiendish essence.
I'm generally loathe to allow a dead fiend's body to remain behind as it is, because that brings up instances of people trying to raise balor zombies and stuff like that which really rubs me the wrong way as a concept and with some logical problems I find inherent in the topic.
But use what fits your campaign the best. :)
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FC:I talking about demonic death throes was a really nice bit of work. :)
The topic of 'what happens to a fiend's body/essence if you kill it and where' is something that massively varies by just about every source that covers the topic. Usually it just doesn't get covered.
I have my own preference, but I wouldn't necessarily make it a blanket case for everyone to use. I typically have something similar to the FC:I idea, with no true physical body being left behind, and the fiend's essence migrating back to their home plane to either regenerate slowly or be absorbed back into their home plane to subsequently be belched back out as a new fiend, or a dozen new fiends, each being a hodgepodge of similarly recycled fiendish essence.
I'm generally loathe to allow a dead fiend's body to remain behind as it is, because that brings up instances of people trying to raise balor zombies and stuff like that which really rubs me the wrong way as a concept and with some logical problems I find inherent in the topic.
But use what fits your campaign the best. :)
No balor zombies. Those explode even in core-only games.
Babaus and such I could see as a problem, though. The FC:I death throes work great.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There are two different matters here:
1. the outsiders body
This has been clarified by Diego Rossi. called = body/gear stays and demon is really dead, summoned = body/gear goes away as the summoning magic is broken and said demon returns to the abyss without any penalties
2. the outsiders essence/soul
This is what the Fiendish Codex describes. As soon as an CALLED outsider is killed on Golarion, its essence/soul goes back to its homeplane and reforms its body over an uncertain amount of time. This may have severe consequences (such as a Balor reforming as a Dretch) or it may have minor consequences (being the laughing stock of your peers).
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Have you been waiting six years for clarity on this? What is your question?
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So now that this thread is necromanced, if anybody wonders the original question, answer is that in Pathfinder setting demons don't reincarnate like in 3.5, if they physically die, they die permanently xP Summoned demons go poof, called demons perma die when killed
A demon dying does what?
Oh, right, Pharasma returns it to the Abyss, where it already has its chops.
It might try another form, it is chaotic after all.
You must teach it a new way, or it will remain a demon.
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Except that they don't cease to exist. The real difference between a demon dying and just being popped back to the abyss is that it has to stand in line before it gets returned to the abyss and gets a body again.
Life after death is a debate for the real world, life after death is definitely a thing in this fantasy game world. Will this make a difference in your module? Probably not.
Regarding Pathfinder cosmology, would the demon really return to the river of souls -- I thought this was only for mortals who haven't been judged, as this soul was judged I assume it would either cease to exist or return to the abyss to be reabsorbed.
If a demon is reduced to negative hit points but not more negative than its constitution score, does it bleed and remain alive until it reaches a negative hp value equal to its con score, or does it die as soon as it goes negative, like an undead?
Demons are living creatures so yeah, they can bleed and remain alive when they are on negative HP but not more than their constitution score.
edit : a special case is for the creatures called by a Summon onster spel : these creatures can't die and they just return to where they come from when their HP reach zero or lower.
Thanks. It just became important as one demon is slightly negative but another is about to cast an inflict wounds spell that will heal the fallen one. They are Vermleks, so they are healed by negative energy.