Sounds interesting, but I don't want the effect to be ONLY for combat. a party of half-orc bards could use Wuug? as written to solve knowledge skill checks effectively also.
edit: Also, how would you scale the CR for the orcs with that ability?
For a custom setting I've been pondering how to make orcs cooperate. The answer I've come up with is to splash them with a bit of social-insect-like communication, which leaves them appearing to be simple brutes to everyone else, but capable of coordinated behavior despite low intelligence. Just fishing for some feedback.
Added abilities: Wuug? (ex) - Once per day after failing a skill check or seeing another orc die in battle, an orc may use Wuug? as a move action to emit distress pheromones. For skill checks this grants a cumulative +1 racial bonus to other orcs and half-orcs attempting the same check within one minute, though half-orcs do not add to the bonus for their attempt. For battle situations, after at least six orcs within 50 feet of each other have used Wuug? and at least one orc has died, one orc within this area gains the advanced template for the next 24 hours. If all orcs are the same level, the orc is chosen at random, otherwise it is added to the orc with the highest class level.
New feat:
Wuug is in my blood
Prerequisites: Half-orc
Benefit: You gain full use of Wuug? (ex), in addition, when using Wuug? for skill checks you may forgo adding to the current bonus should you fail to instead roll again taking the second result, even if it is worse.
Normal: You can neither start a Wuug?, add to the racial bonus, nor gain the advanced template from it
Right, so we played a mythic game. My wizard character hit 20 and can grant spells now. We started a new game.
Pondering how/why the wizard would just give out spells, it often occurred to me that she wouldn't as she doesn't have a particularly high opinion of CHA based casters and feels that most WIS based casters have cheated their way into power. After all, she studied and learned how to do it herself, meanwhile the other two stats are either making it up as they go or serving something else. She'd be more inclined to work with someone who was already working on their own who had similar goals.
Requirements:
Alignment - Any Lawful
Int based arcane spell casting class - 3 levels
Features:
Changes casting stat for cleric to INT
Cleric spells must now be recorded in a prayer book like wizard spells and are learned the same way
That's literally it. Fluff-wise, wizard-deity-thing seeks out other wizards (or witch or magus, but less likely) and unlocks access to divine power, but they still have to figure it out on their own.
If you haven't guessed, this is entirely a setup to go into mystic theurge at level 7. One of the guys at my table is taking extreme issue with the spell casting class requirement calling it a violation of both rules as written and intended... and while I haven't seen any rules about homebrew archetypes anywhere, he has at least pointed out that other archetypes don't have class requirements, prestige classes do. I personally find that argument silly, as I'm the one writing what my old character's religion works to accomplish and how they would go about it. If you want int based divine casting with full progression on it, prove you can manage to keep arcane power under control first.
I don't see the problem. Despite this, I will at least post here and ask if anyone has a better idea on how to express the wizard's intentions toward followers. Int for divine spells, but prove you're capable before you're given access to any of it. That's the general idea.
That takes 4 Arcane Exploits on Natural Spell Combat to work, but could be pretty cool. Frostbite loves natural attack Magi. At higher level spending a swift action every other round to keep your claws can be limiting, but you aren’t really heading toward spell perfection anyway, so maybe not a big thing.
You're right. Looking at my sheet I've got another problem, no skill focus flying for powerful wings. Easy fixes though. Retrain improved initiative for extra arcana, skill focus flight at 13, then take a 1 level dip for powerful wings at 15, and another extra arcana feat.
I'm actually having a lot of success with my Eldritch Scion Magus/Arcane Trickster Kobold (no, really. Hear me out). So much so that I solo'd an adult black dragon a few sessions ago.
I'm a little behind on sneak attack dice compared to some other options, but I have a lot of attacks. This build would work slightly better with a green kobold and their racial bonus to stealth, but we're playing kingmaker and the local tribe of kobolds is black.
1: Rogue (Unchained)
Feat: Multiattack
Extra feat: (Traded for hero points): Improved Unarmed Strike
Trait: Briar Bandit
Trait: Ambush Training
2: Magus (Eldritch Scion) - Black Dragon Bloodline (gives claws while in Arcane focus)
3: Magus (Eldritch Scion)
Feat: Accomplished Sneak Attacker (You have 4 attacks with 2d6 sneak attack dice. Suck it all other builds.)
4: Magus (Eldritch Scion)
5: Magus (Eldritch Scion)
Feat: Tail Terror
6: Magus (Eldritch Scion)
Bonus Feat: Improved Initiative
7: Magus (Eldritch Scion)
Feat: Draconic Heritage*
8: Arcane Trickster
9: Arcane Trickster
Feat: Draconic Breath*
10: Arcane Trickster
11: Arcane Trickster
Feat: Noxious Bite*
12: Arcane Trickster
13: Arcane Trickster
Feat: Powerful Wings
This is as far as I've gotten, but at level 13, I've got Kick (full BAB), Bite (-2), Claw (-2), Claw (-2), Tail Slap (-2), Wing (-2), Wing (-2), Kick (-5). Each with 5d6 sneak attack dice, plus my spell combat. If I am first on initiative, I can use bladed dash to close and land an extra attack (usually a bite to force another roll vs my Noxious bite). If I don't win on initiative, I now use greater invisibility and sneak attack at my leisure. Also keep in mind that spells like Force Punch and Shocking Grasp qualify for your sneak attack dice. At lower levels, I was using spell combat to cast vanish at the end of my attacks to give myself cover until I attacked again. It was very powerful for defense and ensured that I always had at least one sneak attack.
*It's a house rule here that another class feature that gives a dragon bloodline shifts the save from con to cha like it would for a sorcerer. The feats are older than the other classes that give access to it from a publishing standpoint. You may not be as successful if your DM does not agree, but invisible slashy-bitey-slappy lizard is still deadly without half a dozen rounds of the nauseated condition.
Right, so my group is playing the kingmaker campaign. My character is a black kobold that overthrew chief sootscale in the first book. We've been treating the kobolds as a vassal state. They've grown and developed their territory thanks to the peace agreement with the humans.
As we approach the start of the mass combat, I brushed up on the rules and discovered that kobolds, while generally weak and not a threat to parties, they have qualities that make them surprisingly good at mass combat.
Racial -1 penalty to CR as long as they have npc class levels.
This sounds like a drawback, but it isn't. It shifts the numbers in such a way that more kobolds can take the field in an encouter for the same XP value. In mass combat, it means you can give them an extra class level (compared to a human army of the same size).
What good does this do? The humans raise an army of 200 level 2 warriors (ACR 2, 11hp, OM +2 DV 12). The kobolds raise an army of 200 level 3 warriors (also (ACR 2, 11hp, OM +2 DV 12). The kobolds have an extra feat to play with because they are level 3. Pay the feat tax at level 1 and get Draconic Aspect. At level 3, Take either Draconic Breath (Better for Black kobolds than Draconic Magic at level 3) or Draconic Magic (Can be better with any other color depending on your preferences). Draconic Breath adds a breath weapon, which allows the army to attack during ranged attack phases and deal an extra 1d4 damage during both ranged and melee phases. Draconic Magic adds +2 to both OM and DV and allows armies to attack during the ranged phase (except black kobolds, their racial spells are both touch range).
So instead of two equal strength armies, you've got
Human Warriors 11hp, OM +2, DV 12
vs either
Kobold Breath Warriors 11hp, OM +2 DV 12 +1d4 damage
(Can make ranged attacks)
or
Kobold Magic Warriors 11hp, OM +4 DV 14
(Can make ranged attacks, if not black)
Kobolds statistically win this. Even daytime engagements where the kobolds are at a -1 penalty to fighting, nevermind attacking at night where the humans have a larger penalty. Kobolds pay the same price, but have a better army.
That said, I've been looking around for other feats that could boost an army, but haven't had much luck. Most seem to require a specific race to function (like fetid breath for ogres, or enhanced gnome magic for gnomes), a one exception I've found has been Accursed, as it grants SR, it gives +6 DV vs spellcasting armies.
There are a crap ton of feats and I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations for mass combat. Preferably more generic feats that would work with any army.
Tehnically true, but I have no idea why anyone would waste their familiar spells on something like first level spells.
I'm thinking shoot for both traits that lower the spell slot level when you add metamagic to them and put a lot of focus onto baleful polymorph. It's level 5 in both lists. With both traits, it's level 6 as a familiar spell, and the familiar could then carry four castings of it, though I think holding back one for a greater dispel magic would be wiser.
Prerequisites: Spellcaster with familiar class feature.
Benefit: You can transfer a prepared spell to your familiar, allowing the familiar to cast that spell at a later time. Variables that rely on caster level function according to your caster level, not your familiar’s Hit Dice, though your familiar’s Intelligence may influence how precisely it can follow your instructions on how to use these spells.
Your familiar must be able to speak to cast spells with a verbal component (the ability to speak with its master or creatures of its kind is insufficient). Your familiar must be carrying any material or focus components necessary, unless the materials cost less than 1 gp and the spell is prepared with Eschew Materials. Attack rolls use your familiar’s ability scores. A familiar spell counts against the number of spells you may prepare for as long as your familiar retains the spell. Once your familiar casts a retained spell, you can prepare a new spell in that slot the next time you prepare spells.
A familiar spell uses up a spell slot 3 levels higher than the spell’s actual level. Your familiar can store a number of spell levels (including this modifier) equal to your caster level, but no spell’s adjusted level can exceed half your caster level.
Special: If you are a spontaneous caster, you must select a specific spell with which to imbue your familiar; you cannot imbue your familiar with an open spell slot.
the familiar can hold 13 levels of wizard spells, and 17 levels of druid spells, for a total of 30 spell levels.
So, I went through and looked at all the class/race/feat options that I could find for giving kobolds a breath weapon. Most of them are awful. For references, these are the ones I could find:
Spoiler:
Dragonbreath Kobold
Type: Racial Ability
Uses: 2x daily, MOVE ACTION
Damage: 1d8
Save: 10+Con Mod+Racial HD (see zero)
Thoughts: Amazing at early levels, pretty useless after about level 3 or 4.
Draconic Aspect: Dragon Breath
Type: Feat, Taxed first
Uses: 1x daily, standard action
Damage: 2d6
Save: 10+Con Mod+Character level
Thoughts: If you give up your hero points to get it at level one with the previous 1d8 breath attack, you'll be the most terrifying level one kobold ever... but this feat chain does not advance well. Pay another feat at level 10 to get two more d6 of damage and an extra use. Yawn.
Breath Weapon: Dragon Bloodline
Type: Class ability or Feat (via Eldritch Heritage)
Uses: 2-4 uses daily, standard action.
Damage: (Sorcerer Level)d6
Save: 10+Cha Mod+Sorcerer Level
Thoughts: This is the one good breath attack for PC's. This amounts a repackaged fireball.
Dragonbreath: Dragon Subdomain
Type: Clerical Domain
Uses: 1-3 daily, standard action
Damage: (Cleric Level/2)+1 d6
Save: 10+Wis Mod+(Cleric Level/2)
Thoughts: This one is not that bad. The damage at least scales. It's still bad because by the time you get it at 4th level (or 6th for arcane hunter), 3d6 damage is easily outscaled by spells.
Breath Weapon Bomb
Type: Alchemical Discovery
Uses: Alchemist Level + Int Mod
Damage: (Alchemist Level/2 ROUND UP)+1d6+Int Mod
Save: 10+Int Mod+(Alchemist Level/2)
Thoughts: This is probably the second best breath weapon available to PC's. It scales slightly better than the clerical domain, and has a bunch more uses.
Various Form of the Dragon ablities
Type: Spell like ability, Dragon Disciple, Draconic Druid, and Wyrm Singer Skald
Uses: 1 per 1d4 rounds
Damage 6d8 or 8d8
Save: 10+Casting Stat Mod+(6 or 7)
Thoughts: This is pretty neat, the Draconic druid gets this at level 10 and 12. Makes for another way to get it besides dragon disciple. Great for destroying villages... except for skald not being able to use the breath weapon.
Sovereign Breath
Type: Spell like ability for Sovereign Blade
Uses: 1-3 daily
Damage (Samurai Level/2)d6 SONIC DAMAGE
Save: 10+Cha Mod+4
Thoughts: This one is a lot of fun once you take quicken spell like ability. Bust into a room, BLARG! STAB!
Breath Weapon: Wyrm Singer
Type: Class Feature
Uses: 1 daily
Damage: (Skald Level/2)d6
Save: 10+Cha Mod+(Skald Level/2)
Thoughts: Being able to grant this to an ally is pretty cool, but unless you're giving it to the wizard's familiar or something for a sneaky 6d6 blast cone out of nowhere, this one is pretty underwhelming by the time you get it... and it never progresses past once daily.
Ok, looking back through that, maybe they're not all awful, but they are largely underpowered, especially when looked at through the lens of action economy.
I present my thoughts on a feat to make breath weapons great again. Feel free to mock this openly, though helpful feedback would be appreciated.
Spoiler:
Kobold Breath Specialization
Prerequisites: Kobold, At least two qualifying breath attacks
You lose all other breath attacks from any non-item/non-spell source and lose any new ones gained other than from this feat. Breath attacks gained from items (other than alchemist bombs) or spells spells do not count for the purposes of this feat and work normally. Breath attacks gained via spell like abilities only count if they directly generate the breath attack, not via transformation effects such as Form of the Dragon.
Combine the total uses per day of all breath attacks you previously possessed and any new ones gained (For alchemists with the Breath Weapon Bomb discovery, decide on a number of bombs to give up, you lose those permanently. This goes for any other class with a pool of resources to draw from which can produce a breath attack, such as a Scaled Fist Monk loses some ki permanently). You gain a new breath attack with this many uses per day as a supernatural ability. Choose an element Fire, Acid, Lightning, or Cold, your breath attack does this damage type. Choose either line or cone, your breath attack is this shape. These choices cannot be changed later. Special: Sovereign Blades may choose Sonic for their element, even if they do not yet qualify for their Sovereign Breath ability, but must take cone for their shape.
You may use this attack as a standard action every 1d4 rounds, up to your total uses per day. Special: If you are a dragonbreath kobold, you may expend two uses to use this ability as a move action. A Soveriegn Blade with Quickened Sovereign Breath may spend two uses to use this ability as a swift action.
The save DC for this new breath weapon is the save DC from the best breath weapon sacrificed. The breath weapon deals the same number of damage dice as the highest sacrificed breath weapon. Special: If you have the Draconic Paragon feat, add two dice to this number.
The size of your line or cone is the same size as the most powerful breath attack sacrificed.
If you sacrificed at least three breath attacks, you roll d8's for damage.
If you sacrificed at least four breath attacks, and for each breath attack after that, increase line distance by twenty, or cone width by 10, up to a maximum of 140-foot lines and 70-foot cones.
Abuse I can already see, level one Wyrm Chymist Dragonbreath Kobold has some amazing action economy, as does a level 11 Sovereign Blade with Improved Eldritch Heritage Feat... though I am not sure I want to call this broken without playtesting it.
Right, so Curse Terrain Supreme lets the caster create up to a CR 15 encounter using hazards that up to CR 14 each... but only up to 7 hazards can be included.
This pretty much pigeon holes the caster into using the CR 9+ hazards in order to maximize the effect of the spell.
Which basically means these:
Abyssal Geysers (CR 2+)
Apocalypse Fog (CR 12)
Bottomless Pit (CR 9)
Claws of Frozen Rage (CR 10)
And then with however many hazards are left after stacking those how you want, fill in the gaps with other hazards.
Why not one huge field of bone (CR 6) that is 24 fields rolled into one generating 24d6 worth of skeletons (not under caster control) per turn? It's a CR 15 encounter, and even though the skeletons aren't a real threat to the players, they do have to spend resources squashing them, and you could always do this while the party is on an escort mission. The skeletons might not be a threat to the players, but they might be a threat to the escort.
I realize this technically can be fixed with a simple "The GM says so" ... but I like working with the established rules on how things work with only minimal use of "I'm god, stfu."
Is there a mechanical or fluff reason that I've missed on why there is a limit of seven hazards?
So, I'm trying to build a horrible (see awesome) poison based magus.
So I gave him a +1 Toxic Virulent longsword.
Spoiler:
Toxic: Weapons with the toxic special ability reinforce the effects of applied poisons. The save DC of a poison applied to the weapon and delivered via an attack increases by 2. In addition, each time such a weapon strikes a target, there is a 25% chance that the poison dose is not expended in the attack and can be used to make an additional attack. A single dose of poison can be preserved by this property only once.
Virulent: A virulent weapon magically intensifies any poison it delivers. The saving throw DC of any poison applied to either a virulent weapon or any ammunition fired from it increases by a number equal to the weapon’s enhancement bonus. The duration of the poison increases by a number of rounds equal to the virulent weapon’s enhancement bonus.
(emphasis mine)
I also gave took spell blending to get Toxic Gift.
Spoiler:
Toxic Gift
School necromancy [poison]; Level antipaladin 2, sorcerer/wizard 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
EFFECT
Range touch
Target living creature touched
Duration instantaneous; see text
Saving Throw Fortitude negates (see text); Spell Resistance yes
DESCRIPTION
You can cast this spell only if you are currently poisoned. You draw upon the poison in your body and duplicate its effects in the target, which is affected by the same poison you are, except it uses this spell’s DC instead of the poison’s normal DC. If you are affected by more than one poison, you must choose one to afflict upon the target.
And spellstrike...
Spoiler:
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks. This attack uses the weapon’s critical range (20, 19–20, or 18–20 and modified by the keen weapon property or similar effects), but the spell effect only deals ×2 damage on a successful critical hit, while the weapon damage uses its own critical modifier.
All together for the question now, does the weapon boost the save dc of the spell? It is technically delivering poison since the spell has the poison descriptor, and the end result of the spell is poisoning someone. I'm trying to play a guy that chugs a rough poison at the start of a fight, wades in casting toxic gift and stabbing people. Having a sword that helps with that seems like the way to go.
I've thought up a way to turn animate dead into a snall scale tac-nuke.
Kill a bunch of rats or other tiny creatures.
Put them all into a pile.
Cast animate dead with reach metamagic added to it.
Raise one rat as a burning skeleton, raise the rest as exploding skeletons.
If you have a desecrate effect going, you can raise twice your caster level of single-template skeletons, which if you're an agent of the grave with the undead master feat, we're talking at level 10, effective caster level 19 on animate dead, so 38d6 damage with a crapton of saves for half.
My question is, since the spell doesn't say you cannot, can you put different templates on creatures you raise in a single casting of the spell?
For 8 total attacks at really low bonuses. Even being invisible you'll have some trouble hitting with that. Might want to pick up multiweapon fighting if your GM allows it.
Also see if you can talk your GM into using fractional BAB from PF unchained. Your bab would go from 7 to 9.
I've got point blank shot, reckless aim, and weapon focus shuriken boosting my attack rolls. Good point with the multiweapon fighting, not sure what I was doing without that. Right now with non-masterwork shurikens, I'm looking at +12/+12/+12/+12/+12/+12/+12/+7, not the best, but against flatfooted spellcasters, that invokes the chunky salsa rule.
I'll ask about the fractional bab, but I think your math is off.
3.75 bard
1.5 ninja
3 arcane trickster
=8.25, rounded down to 8.
According to hero lab, this nets 17 attacks with shurikens in a single round.
As I understand this, it should be 8 attacks total.
1 at highest bonus normally
3 at highest bonus from Rapid Shot and Flurry of Stars
3 more at +6 from the off-hands
1 one more from the main hand
Am I right or do rapid shot and flurry of stars modify the off hand weapons as well? Greater invisibility turning all these into sneak attacks gets ugly quick.
Right, so my party killed a Vrock at the end of our last session. I'm a necromancer and wish to raise it as a Mudra Skeleton, the question is the extra claws, how much damage do they do?
Normally Vrock's get 2d6 for claw damage.
Mudra template give it two extra arms with claw attacks.
Do the extra arms have claws standard for a large creature (1d6), or are they the same size as the claws on it's original hands (2d6)?
Was hoping for more with prepackaged rules on their use, like frost fallen has an abdominal gemstone cost. My GM is notoriously wish washy when there isn't something prepared already. =/
This really isn't a rules question, more of a "Are all of the rules for this spell condensed to one place anywhere on the internet?"
I was talking with my gaming group and discussing my plans to go all Night King on our antagonist.
We got to talking about making GoT style wights and I was pitching raising bloody zombies and just sweet talking the GM into letting me add the cold template to them for 8x cost, and somebody else pointed me to the frostfallen template which actually includes rules for use with animate dead. So... instead I can raise a bloody frostfallen creature for 4x cost... which functions pretty much exactly like GoT wights.
I'd never heard of this before.
So, I'm really just looking for a list with all the templates that can be raised with just animate dead.
This isn't exactly a homebrew, it's more taking a couple of existing prestige classes (one Paizo, one 3pp) and throwing them into a blender. Basically, this is Agent of the Grave minus the preparing for the character's undeath, plus the non-plague or feast related bits of Lord of the Dead. I've also changed the alignment restriction from Any Evil to Any Non-good so as to exclude white necromancers. Posting here to see what other people think.
Grave Shephered
Requirements: Alignment: Any non-good
Must be able to animate dead without the aid of items, either via a spawn ability or by casting animate dead or a similar spell.
1st +0 BAB +1 FORT +0 REF +1 WILL
Inspired necromancy, lich’s touch, unholy fortitude
—
2nd +1 BAB +1 FORT +1 REF +1 WILL
Undead manipulator
+1 level of existing class
3rd +1 BAB +2 FORT +1 REF +2 WILL
Negative energy conduit
+1 level of existing class
4th +1 BAB +2 FORT +1 REF +2 WILL
Spawn mastery, Negative Energy Affinity
+1 level of existing spellcasting class
5th +2 BAB +3 FORT +2 REF +3 WILL
Cheat death, Secrets of Death
+1 level of existing spellcasting class
Inspired necromancy (Ex)
When determining the maximum number of Hit Dice of undead he can control with spells like animate dead, a character counts his Grave Shepherd levels twice. This ability does not factor into how many undead he can create with a single casting of a spell. Thus, a cleric 7/Grave Shepherd 3 would be able to control 52 Hit Dice worth of undead with animate dead.
Lich’s touch (Su)
At 1st level, the Grave Shepherd becomes a conduit for negative energy and the chill powers of death, allowing him to make a melee touch attack dealing 1d6 points of damage from negative energy per level of the Grave Shepherd class he attains. This ability allows him to heal undead minions, and himself upon attaining Negative Energy Affinity at 4h level. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma bonus.
Unholy Fortitude (Su)
At 1st level, the Grave Shepherd can tap into his conviction and bolster his health. Starting with the hit points he rolls for gaining his first Grave Shepherd level and every time he gains a level in any class thereafter, the character may choose to add either his Constitution bonus or his Charisma bonus to the number of new hit points he gains for that level.
Undead manipulator (Ex)
At 2nd level, the Grave Shepherd gains great insight into the minds and necromantic forces controlling undead creatures. A Grave Shepherd’s spells and spell-like abilities with mind-affecting effects treat undead creatures as their original type. Thus, an Grave Shepherd can use charm person against a humanoid zombie or confusion against a horde of skeletal champions.
Negative energy conduit (Ex)
At 3rd level, a Grave Shepherd bolsters undead around him. As a standard action, an Grave Shepherd manifests an aura identical to the desecrate spell, except this foul aura has a duration of 10 minutes per level. An Grave Shepherd can use this ability once per day. In addition, any undead the Grave Shepherd creates is treated as having been created within the area of a desecrate spell.
Spawn mastery (Su)
At 4th level, whenever a Grave Shepherd would create a free-willed undead, that undead is instead under the Grave Shepherd’s control. A Grave Shepherd can control up to 4 HD of undead per Grave Shepherd level in this manner. Excess undead are free-willed unless previously controlled undead are released.
Negative Energy Affinity (Ex)
At 4th level, the Grave Shepherd, while still technically alive, is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy, as if it were an undead creature. If the Grave Shephered is already undead, this ability grants no additional benefit.
Cheat death (Ex)
At 5th level, if a Grave Shepherd is ever slain or destroyed, he rises as if affected by raise dead 1d4 hours after its death. This affects even destroyed undead, but not a creature that has been dismembered or had its body destroyed.
However, escape from death is fleeting. A creature restored in this manner will simply drop dead after 2d6 days, unless otherwise restored to full life. The GM should roll this secretly, so the Grave Shepherd does not know how much time remains. A raise dead or similar spell will restore a living creature to life. Undead creatures, such as a lich, can replace a destroyed phylactery. As most undead cannot be restored to life (or unlife), they will be destroyed when the effect ends.
Secrets of Death (Ex)
At 5th level, an Grave Shepherd gains new insights into the dark arts of necromancy. At the time he gains this ability, the character may add a number of necromancy spells that are not normally a part of his class’s spell list to his spell list. The number of spells that the character may add is equal to his Intelligence modifier. For example, an Grave Shephered with levels of wizard might choose to add spells like death watch, inflict critical wounds, and slay living to his spell list, while an Grave Shepherd with levels of cleric might choose to add spells such as enervation, magic jar, and vampiric touch. An Grave Shepherd may choose to add spells he cannot yet cast—this does not allow the Agent of the Grave to cast spells of a higher level than he normally could, but rather merely grants him access to those spells when he reaches the level required to cast them.
Nah, I think I might have just been really sleep deprived and looking at both Lord of the Dead and Agent of the Grave at around the same time. Thanks though.
I don't remember where, but I'd have sworn I saw a class description for an agent of the grave that was from a third party publisher. I might be horribly mis-remembering, but I can't find the class description.
Am I losing my mind or is there another Agent of the Grave write up that doesn't push the character toward becoming an undead creature?
Let's just say my DM has signed off on a Neutrally aligned undead cleric. We've run into the snag of what happens when he tries to channel positive energy to heal other people? As I understand the RAW, if he targets the living, he's fine. If he targets undead, he risks crispy crittering himself.
You are looking at a spell with expensive components, this also factors into the cost. See the notes on the last line of the chart for items using spell effects.
That part we get, just need the price for the rest of the item.
Alright, so you've missed step 1 on making a magic item: compare it to existing items. The table you're using is the last resort, not the first.
I did actually. The similar item is a higher level version of the spell with a higher caster level. The listed price for the item was cheaper than the formula said it should be.
Cauldron of the Dead, casts animate dead on bodies placed inside, allows non-casters to control corpses. No daily limit on how many zombies can be made, only on how many it can control for the user. Costs 30,000... 15,000 to make.
I want a ring of Lesser Animate Dead that makes skeletons, doesn't control any for the user, and has a limit on how many it can raise in a day.
Bob Bob Bob wrote:
Xelah wrote:
Since it is a charged item, I get the 1/2 discount for it having a limit. So...
This is wrong. The exact line is "Charged (50 charges)". Does your ring have a maximum of 50 charges? Does it run out and become worthless?
Fair point, but what is the point of a daily restriction then? I could take the 5xday restriction off since there is no discount for it. Personally I think not being able to completely raise the entire orc tribe to do my bidding in an afternoon to be a meaningful restriction, but if the rules say it isn't meaningful, I could take it off. (Not trying to be overly facetious here, 5xday isn't a meaningful restriction on some spells, but others with lasting effects... )
Right, so it's been a decade or so since I played 3.5 and this is my group's first pathfinder campaign. I'm trying to make an enchanted item and my comprehension of the rules could use a nudge.
Basically I need a non-wand item that gives me a 5xday spell. I know this can be done more easily with a wand, but I am stuck having to make it a non-wand.
Non-wands use either command word or continuous effect, since I don't want a continuous effect, the formula is:
Spell Level (2) x Caster Level (3) x 1800
Since it is a charged item, I get the 1/2 discount for it having a limit. So...
10800 x 0.5
It is 5xday, so no further discount there.
I am making the item myself, so another 1/2 discount.
5400 x 0.5
I am also putting a class restriction on the item
2700 x 0.7
Assuming I'm right, the ring would end up costing me 1,890 gold to make. Right?
I'm just trying to figure out what the trade off is for this.
No one else can use the powers on your bonded item.
It loses any enchantments you put on it if you die.
If you get another bonded item, the first one loses the enchantments.
I was going to enchant a ring with create undead so that if I died, I would come back, angry get some revenge on whatever killed me... except for death erasing the ring. >=/ I'm still going to do this, except now I have to use my other ring slot and I have to pick some kind of undead thing that isn't a spellcaster since the undead me would lose the bonded item immediately.
In any case, what's the deal with this? Where is the incentive to enchant the bonded item aside from the self repairing. That's okay on a staff or a wand, but baubles and rings? Not so much. Not once in 20+ years of tabletop gaming has an npc ever tried making a called shot to a ring.
Cleric might win on buffs, but take a necromancer wizard and raise a few 3 HD spellgorged zombies, load them up with fireballs and the buffs are a footnote on the outcome of the battle. Granted, there are many situations where fireballs just aren't apropriate and I'd rather have some beefy minions holding the line, but I don't think a cleric could produce this kind of opening volley as easily.
In which case you are playing a blaster :P
I prefer the term "necromancer with a more flexible army" ;)
Clerics can do anything Wizards can in this case, but better.
"Slavery theologians can't raise new minions", what? You get Animate Dead as a 3rd level Cleric spell, while it's a 4th level spell for Wizards. You get Create Undead as 6th level spell, and, as a Theologian, you get also Dominate Person as 5th. Since both need the Sorcerer dip (or Threnodic Spell), it seems a tie to me. Except that Wizards get Command Undead as a spell, while Clerics get Animate Dead one spell level earlier. Between the two, the latter is absolutely better.
Plus the fact that, as a Theologian, you can add some metamagics to your domain spells for free (Bouncing Dominate Person to be sure you don't waste your slots). Add the already mentioned Channel Energy, Desecrate and some of the best buffs that ever existed, and we are done.
Wizards are good necromancer too, don't get me wrong, but you can't absolutely say that are better than Clerics in this field.
Yeah, I get rules and spell lists muddled if posting when just waking up. It happens at my gaming table too :p.
Cleric might win on buffs, but take a necromancer wizard and raise a few 3 HD spellgorged zombies, load them up with fireballs and the buffs are a footnote on the outcome of the battle. Granted, there are many situations where fireballs just aren't apropriate and I'd rather have some beefy minions holding the line, but I don't think a cleric could produce this kind of opening volley as easily.
You've made a strong case for Theologian or a Cleric/Sorcerer, but I can't agree that it is definitively better. Both have their merits in different situations... I just tend to not care as much about collateral damage... much to the chagrin of my fellow players at times.
Anzyr wrote:
This is a general reminder of things I always say in these threads, but abilities like Channel or 6/HD Animate Dead to control undead are pointless. Command Undead is a 2nd level spell that will let you easily control several hundred HD of undead if you want. And once you over 200 HD under control, another 7 or 8 don't really matter.
The most valuable spells for a necromancer to have are:
1. Animate Dead - If you can't do this you don't count as a necromancer in my book.
2. Command Undead - If you can't order a 20+ HD mindless undead around with no save using a 2nd level spell slot you're not very good at controlling undead.
3. Blood Money - Not inherently important to being a necromancer, but extremely important if you want to Animate Dead both on the fly and on the cheap.
4. Desecrate - But not really. Or rather any character can get a desecrate effect by picking up a voidstick for 2,500 gp.
My vote for best Necromancer continues to go to Gravewalker Witch as they can at-will control undead from level 1, get all the relevant spells, and can at-will magic jar undead later on.
You raise a fair point with the pool being fairly small in comparison to late game, though gravewalker's bonethrall is mechanically pretty much the same as necromancer or cleric's command undead, it is still a limited HD pool ability. No arguments with your most valuable spells, except that I'd add Magic Jar. You get it for free as an ability playing a gravewalker though. 11th level onward, Create Undead also. Most of the undead it creates are intelligent, but even if you're not going as an undead sorcerer multiclass, you can use it to make spellgorged zombies... which are not intelligent, and probably my favorite undead minion. Raise a 20HD spellgorged zombie and load it with two castings of meteor swarm. Tie this in with the 3HD fireball spellgorged zombies I mentioned earlier and give them all the same discharge condition and you're pocket nuking an area. Assuming you have a 20HD critter, and 3x3HD critters, and your condition is "Anyone that I cast meteor swarm at" ... goodbye most things caught in the blasts.
How are you healing your undead minions as an arcane caster? The cleric gets full channel negative energy and can spontaneously convert any spell to an inflict wounds to heal undead. The oracle has all inflict spells on his spell list. You have a couple of ways to heal undead and a few buffs but a lot less than a divine caster. Dominate person will allow you a few more undead minions but you have less ways to buff and heal them than a divine caster.
The dominated minions aren't just a "few more" minions. They're intelligent undead with better stats already. Also, cleric might be king of buffs, but wizard is king of debuffs. I consider it a tie that gets decided by who has better minions to start with.
Gray Warden wrote:
Ehem...except for this domain. Take the Theologian archetype and you can spam Dominate Person all day. Want to affect undeads? Dip in Sorcerer or Threnodic Spell metamagic rod, or even the feat to be used with Spell Perfection if you really like it.
Are you really neglecting the whole channel energy thing? It's one of the best things of necromancer cleric: get an army of undeads, cast sanctuary on yourself, and heal them all together from the middle of the battle.
Wizards are the top for a lot of things, but concerning undeath, Divines do it better.
Forgot about slavery domain. Slavery theologians can't raise new minions, you'd only be able to steal others.
Undead-Slavery Cleric / Undead sorcerer looks appealing, but you still can't do the puppeteering trick, which I find to be a better spell than sanctuary if I've stashed my body before the battle. Though being able to heal them all, buff them, and have the better minions is really appealing.
I think I'm still going to go wizard though. Thanks for the input guys.
Maybe I'm missing something but why not go full undead sorcerer?
Because the undead sorceror doesn't get the pool for the command undead feat. You don't really get to do any cool necromancery things until level 6. You can have a small collection of minions you've hijacked if you're primarily a wizard.
Sorcerer can't cast animate dead or dominate person until 8th level, undead sorcerer gets animate dead for free as their 9th level class spell, so it is pointless to take it at 8th. A wizard can cast animate dead and dominate person at 7th level. Take 7 levels of wizard and your 8th level as sorcerer and you've already got a force of bloody skeletons and can start adding intelligent undead by the time the sorcerer can start doing either one. And there is no downside, unless you just really really don't like prepcasting.
The only real reason I'd ever take a full undead sorcerer would be to get those level 20 perks, which with two castings of wish can be yours anyway.
Dominate Person is a compulsion, mind-affecting spell,which undead are immune to.
Except for this:
Undead Bloodline
Bloodline Arcana: Some undead are susceptible to your mind-affecting spells. Corporeal undead that were once humanoids are treated as humanoids for the purposes of determining which spells affect them.
I've seen a few posts both here and on other websites advocating various builds for necromancer, generally advocating cleric or oracle of bones as the two best choices.
These same threads also tend to steer newcomers away from wizard necromancer and undead sorcerer builds.
Gravewalker witch tends to fall somewhere in the middle.
I've been scouring the rules, and unless I'm missing something all of the above is bad advice. Single classed, a necromancer wizard or an undead sorcerer are quite a bit weaker than a single class cleric. Necromancer wizard with a single level in undead sorcerer outscales the clerics at mid-high levels. The only real drawback is a slower start.
At character level 8
A single class cleric has the following pools:
32 HD for animate dead's HD pool
8 HD for command undead feat
x HD in whatever held by command undead spell
A wizard 7 / sorcerer 1 has the following pools:
28 HD for animate dead's HD pool
7 HD for command undead feat
x HD in whatever is held by command undead spell
**y HD in whatever is held by the Dominate Person**
The level 1 class perk for undead bloodline sorcerer applies to all spells that character casts. Which means a level of this, plus a wizard that can cast dominate person There isn't a cleric domain that grants dominate person.
Now, in addition to having an entirely new pool to play with and store minions, reading the spell description for dominate person, it looks like the perfect place to store intelligent undead. There are no daily saves, no charisma checks, and no HD pools to worry about. I would never use Create Undead with any single class necromancer, the spell becomes much more appealing with a necromancer wizard undead sorcerer. Dominate Person is also 2 harder to resist than command undead. Drop a Heighten Spell metamagic on this and you have a spell that can completely wreck a lich way better than control undead.
Also, unlike clerics, wizards have access to Magic Jar. The advantage here is pretty obvious, especially if you have a totally slick minion to posses like a dragon zombie (See dracolich as far as anyone knows :D ).
The only real drawback here (aside from having to suffer at low levels) is that a wizard sorcerer cannot cast desecrate. That's solved readily enough with points spent on Use Magic Device, which happens to be a sorcerer class skill, and buying a wand of desecrate.
Have I missed a rule somewhere or does anyone have a better build?
