If I choose a feat at 1st level - let's say Cleave - and at 8th level decide to retrain it, can I retrain into a feat that I did not qualify for at level 1 but do now... like Lunge, for example?
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If I choose a feat at 1st level - let's say Cleave - and at 8th level decide to retrain it, can I retrain into a feat that I did not qualify for at level 1 but do now... like Lunge, for example?
I do not see any reason why not. As long as you currently meet all the pre-reqs for the feat.
Also, make sure that you do not remove a feat that is a prereq for other feats you have (in your example, you could not remove cleave if you had great cleave.)
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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If I choose a feat at 1st level - let's say Cleave - and at 8th level decide to retrain it, can I retrain into a feat that I did not qualify for at level 1 but do now... like Lunge, for example?
This is an ask your DM question.
There is no retraining rules in pathfinder (or If I'm wrong I'm unaware they were introduced in an expansion book.)
If they are allowed, they typically assume the retrain is a valid option at the point in your build that it was taken.
So a 1st level feat retained will have only +1 BAB (if Fighter etc) as a prereq support so things like Vital Strike wouldn't be valid options.
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There is no retraining rules in pathfinder (or If I'm wrong I'm unaware they were introduced in an expansion book.)
Fighter can retrain their bonus feats.
From the Core book[/url]]
Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and at every even level thereafter, a fighter gains a bonus feat in addition to those gained from normal advancement (meaning that the fighter gains a feat at every level). These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats, sometimes also called “fighter bonus feats.”Upon reaching 4th level, and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, and so on), a fighter can choose to learn a new bonus feat in place of a bonus feat he has already learned. In effect, the fighter loses the bonus feat in exchange for the new one. The old feat cannot be one that was used as a prerequisite for another feat, prestige class, or other ability. A fighter can only change one feat at any given level and must choose whether or not to swap the feat at the time he gains a new bonus feat for the level.
The text in the book explains it well. It does not matter when you picked up the feat that you intend to drop...as long as the dropped feat is not a requirement for another feat, ability, etc and you qualify for the new feat.
All right, so for further clarification:
Let's say that upon reaching level 16 I have the Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike already amongst my feat selections. Can I take Stunning Assault for my level 16 feat and then retrain Cleave from 1st level into Greater Vital Strike since I technically qualify for it?
FAQ'd for ya.
The text in the book explains it well. It does not matter when you picked up the feat that you intend to drop...as long as the dropped feat is not a requirement for another feat, ability, etc and you qualify for the new feat.All right, so for further clarification:
Let's say that upon reaching level 16 I have the Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike already amongst my feat selections. Can I take Stunning Assault for my level 16 feat and then retrain Cleave from 1st level into Greater Vital Strike since I technically qualify for it?
I don't see why not. It says nothing about only being able to take new bonus feats which you qualified for at the time you took the first.
More interestingly, could you use the retrained feat to qualify for the regular bonus feat? (or the regular bonus feat to qualify for something to retrain into?)
That is, let's say you took cleave at lvl 1, weapon focus (X) at lvl 2, and combat reflexes at 3. At 4 could you take combat expertise and then drop cleave to grab improved trip, which you only just now qualified for?
The text in the book explains it well. It does not matter when you picked up the feat that you intend to drop...as long as the dropped feat is not a requirement for another feat, ability, etc and you qualify for the new feat.All right, so for further clarification:
Let's say that upon reaching level 16 I have the Vital Strike and Improved Vital Strike already amongst my feat selections. Can I take Stunning Assault for my level 16 feat and then retrain Cleave from 1st level into Greater Vital Strike since I technically qualify for it?
It's kind of cheesy, but there's nothing that stops you. And there's precedent for it. A human fighter with 15 dex could take TWF & Double Slice at 1st level. Or TWF and TWF Defense.
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You should be able to take any feat you currently meet the prerequisites of.
I don't think this just because of the RAW, but because anything else would be bad design. PF has gone a long way to make sure you shouldn't have to know when you got something, when you took what level and so on (see the class skill change for example). Having to track excactly when you got which feat and what your stats where at the given time would be extremely counter-productive to that. If you're 16th level and want to retrain cleave, if that was the case, you'd not only have to know that at 1st level you had BAB +1, but also what skills you had trained, what your ability scores was, what traits you'd chosen and so on.
And it gets even more complicated with multiclassed characters.
I would question one thing, I believe this falls under a situation where once you are 4th level you can switch your 1st level feat, but once you hit 8th level, your 1st level feat is locked, I believe this is similar to the Inquisitor Teamwork Bonus feat section, I could be wrong, but this would make sense so as to avoid abuse of the "retraining"
There's absolutely nothing in the text of retraining that says you are limited based on level.
Retraining something taken at a lower level into something you couldn't qualify for at the time, but do now, is part of the point of the retraining feature. At 1st level, you may have to take a 'filler' feat that's useful early but not so later, simply because you don't yet qualify for much else.
Take this as an example:
Whirlwind Falchioner
This fighter takes Cleave as the 1st level fighter bonus feat, but drops it at 4th once qualifications for Whirlwind Attack have been met. Since Cleave is not needed as a foundation for anything else the fighter has, there's no problem. The trade also happens to make some thematic/style sense, though that's not required by the rules.
Necromancy may not be evil, but thread necromancy is at best chaotic neutral. Just sayin'.