I dunno. Orthogonal-view games just give me headaches after an hour or two, pretty much always have, and even once I get used to the angle, it's still bothersome.
Why haven't the fans already done this?Boundless ambition kills fan projects faster than a bullet to the head?My point exactly. "normal people could make content for it" is usually a meaningless feature. Most content worth downloading is worth paying for.
Which leads us back to finding a real game company to produce a real licensed product. Too bad Pathfinder isn't yet a name big enough to be worth licensing at the scale computer games are budgeted/sold.
I can argue against that, look at mods of some games, Like I don't know, Counter-Strike (which started as a mod made by half-life players). It is possible to make great looking games without a company, Look at some some mods and Total Conversions (TC) for some games, they are well done.
But if people are wiling to learn and practice the skills needed for a mod or TC you can do it, heck some engines have online tutorials to help you get started, like the Source Engine. A game ALWAYS looks awful in it's early stages and as it matures it looks and plays better than it did previously.
heck I am planning to build a mod using the Source engine due to the fact that it has a big online help guide and takes care of most of the work and making mods means I can't make a profit, but it means everyone who has At least ONE source engine game can play the mod and not need to pay for it. True I suck at skinning and Rigging character models, and doing advanced texture work, but I can design the game play, code the mod, and make models and levels with practice and trying.
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I think if we ever do a Pathfinder computer game it should look like Temple of Apshai. The TRS-80 version. You can look up what treasure you got in the book!
I only played the Apple II version, but that game was better than most that they make now. I'd gladly play it over Dragon Age. I think it's also one of the few CRPGs that allowed you to throw vials of holy water at undead to damage them!
I think if we ever do a Pathfinder computer game it should look like Temple of Apshai. The TRS-80 version. You can look up what treasure you got in the book!
I want plaid potions and to be the @ symbol.:)
I can argue against that, look at mods of some games, Like I don't know, Counter-Strike (which started as a mod made by half-life players).
I'll second you and bring up community mods for Morrowind and Oblivion as further examples. Several of the texture and model mods are stunning.
I can argue against that, look at mods of some games, Like I don't know, Counter-Strike (which started as a mod made by half-life players).I'll second you and bring up community mods for Morrowind and Oblivion as further examples. Several of the texture and model mods are stunning.
Thanks for the back up.
If we all tried to learn the skills and put our resources together we Pathfinder players could make our own Pathfinder game / mod (non-profit so no royalties, and may require Paizo's permission) and show that a Pathfinder game is profitable to make commericially and those that worked on it may get hired to help in the commercial version of the game.
Here is proof that the knowledge and tools you need are available
So quit your belly aching, about no knowledge and tool availability,
you learn, you practice, you use that to make what you want.
And you only get better every time you use it.
So unless a real study on marketshare or sales is made public, I just don't see this.
I actually heard from somewhere that Pathfinder and D&D now have a roughly equal share at the moment.
But I don't know where that tid-bit was.
Either way, a game based on the old 3.5 rule-set is bound to happen eventually, given enough time, one will spring up. Whether it's pathfinder inspired or not is a different question, but it for sure can never be associated with D&D because of the 4E rules changes.
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I actually heard from somewhere that Pathfinder and D&D now have a roughly equal share at the moment.
So unless a real study on marketshare or sales is made public, I just don't see this.
Afraid not.
Afraid not.I actually heard from somewhere that Pathfinder and D&D now have a roughly equal share at the moment.
So unless a real study on marketshare or sales is made public, I just don't see this.
While both of the above statements are, ah, equally well supported by their originators, I do have to say that given what I see in the brick-and-mortar marketplace I have a hard time believing Pathfinder has a market share equal to D&D.
My vote is for anything like Temple of Elemental Evil, I have that game and it recreates the rpg experience in the best way
While both of the above statements are, ah, equally well supported by their originators, I do have to say that given what I see in the brick-and-mortar marketplace I have a hard time believing Pathfinder has a market share equal to D&D.Afraid not.I actually heard from somewhere that Pathfinder and D&D now have a roughly equal share at the moment.
So unless a real study on marketshare or sales is made public, I just don't see this.
It varies greatly from area to area. Some stores converted almost entirely over to Pathfinder, others are entirely 4e, and others are a mix. Some conventions have seen drastic swings, others relatively little.
There was an interesting discussion about it a while back. Based off of quartly sales reports from brick and mortar stores, Paizo has been doing quite well.
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The proper game is of course a MMO.
Paizo, get it done.
No. A proper Pathfinder game is a nwn1 game with better graphics, pathfinder ruleset and a story worthy of an Adventure path.
Although, i would most certainly play a game called Golarion online or Pathinfder online. Especialy if some part of my montly subscription ended up in paizo's pockets.
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Indie game developers are doing wonderfully atm.
What's needed is a Fallout 2 style 2D isometric dungeon crawler with interactive skill-challenge items, ability to influence NPCs with skills and Mass Effect style dialogue challenges.
It needs multiplayer connectivity through a Hamachi server or something - essentially all 5 players from around the world would log into the server at a GMT already set, and their heroes would spawn in a Tavern/Party Home/Guild Hall and they'd take it from there with headsets irl to chat amongst each other about what to do to make sure the party succeeds in their quest.
BERK (barb): Lothar, you're a bard, go use your diplomacy skill on the Barkeep for information about the location of the ruin on the hex map.
LOTHAR: Can you add 20 rations to your inventory and deposit them in the Party Mule saddlebags while I'm trying my luck?
CLAIRE (cleric): Just wait. I'll use a charge of my cha-boosting wand on you before you try it.
PAUL (paladin): I think the light blue tabbard suits me best... guys? (is trying on vanity items over the top of his standard fullplate)
Oh, and a hex map/dungeon editor for the DM. Essentially the DM would program the session and others can play in it. Not as flexible but just as cool. Locales would be limited in size.
The character creation element for games like Fallout New Vegas are just as complex as Pathfinder character creation, so I think there's a huge market there.
The tech is there, it's just nobody's picked it up yet. I blame the endless freedom of the system. It's better to set some limits to that freedom than try to get the enormous freedom of actual DM pen and paper.
CD Projekt RED (The Witcher series) would probably make a heck of a Pathfinder game.
There was an interesting discussion about it a while back. Based off of quartly sales reports from brick and mortar stores, Paizo has been doing quite well.
Oh, I think it's pretty clear they're doing GREAT, and I'm quite happy about it. I just haven't seen evidence they've passed out D&D. Then again, that's just based on things like Barnes & Noble and Borders (and pretty much any other brick and mortar place I've been, including game stores), and not on sales figure estimates.
The good news is I can't see them ever getting bought out unless things go very, very badly south.
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I can argue against that, look at mods of some games, Like I don't know, Counter-Strike (which started as a mod made by half-life players).I'll second you and bring up community mods for Morrowind and Oblivion as further examples. Several of the texture and model mods are stunning.Thanks for the back up.
If we all tried to learn the skills and put our resources together we Pathfinder players could make our own Pathfinder game / mod (non-profit so no royalties, and may require Paizo's permission) and show that a Pathfinder game is profitable to make commericially and those that worked on it may get hired to help in the commercial version of the game.
There's some diversity of opinion here as to what kind of game people are looking for. I see votes for:
1. A Temple of Elemental Evil-style game: isometric view, turn-based combat that tries to preserve all the combat options and skills of the original game.
2. Neverwinter Nights: single player, 1st-person (with optional overhead) perspective, Dragon Age/Baldur's Gate style simultaneous turns (pause-and-play). This would inherently alter the Pathfinder rules.
Personally, I would prefer a ToEE-style game, set to an epic story of the quality like was seen in the Baldur's Gate series. I love the Pathfinder rules and would prefer to play with them without modification. And there already is a community of people, Circle of Eight, who have been modding ToEE. They'll have some know-how as to the inner workings of the software engine.
On the other hand, Neverwinter Nights has the advantage of being designed from the get-go to allow for people to create their own adventures and worlds.
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And as compelling as the "yeah...it is a game, based on an old version of a game, which when to a new version, spawned this spin-off. We went to this version because we didn't want our old rules to change, which they did with Pathfinder. And we didn't want to buy our products all over again...which uh...we did when Pathfinder products came out." From what I have seen at conventions, the new influx of Pathfinder gamers is not great.
I think it will be interesting to see how successful the Beginner Box is at reining in new young players.
As for the success of the D&D computer games, I think the D&D brand was so recognizable that it could support the release of computer games that attracted buyers who weren't necessarily PnP players. I was never a pen-and-paper player until one year ago, but I bought Pool of Radiance, Baldur's Gate, and other games for the longest time because they were associated with D&D.
There would need to be a paradigm shift in the general public and the media's eyes as to who the bigwig on the scene is, I think, before Pathfinder's brand can do the same.
.......give the character's knockers the proper bounce, if they're female........
I demand gainaxing in this potential game! Seoni's chest needs it's own development team!
CEO
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Gains additional marketshare...over what? Pathfinder's core market is made of a group of devoted 3.5 players who did not want to transition to the new version of the game. So Pathfinder's market had it's initial influx of players when it released, and I am betting has remained stable since then.
And you would have lost your bet. :) We have seen an every growing number of folks getting into Pathfinder. We are selling Core Rulebooks at a faster clip now than we were a year ago. Not exactly sure where these people are coming from, but they are coming and FAST!
-Lisa
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CEO
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Afraid not.I actually heard from somewhere that Pathfinder and D&D now have a roughly equal share at the moment.
So unless a real study on marketshare or sales is made public, I just don't see this.
Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
-Lisa
*high-fives Lisa* While the whirlpool of nerd-rage, bile, rumor-mongering (what the hell does it mean to 'mong' something?) and fragile hope has you in the general vicinity, any themes you would like to see in a Pathfinder game?
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Afraid not.I actually heard from somewhere that Pathfinder and D&D now have a roughly equal share at the moment.
So unless a real study on marketshare or sales is made public, I just don't see this.
Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
-Lisa
Thanks for making my week, Lisa.
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Maximum justice: achieved.
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Well done Paizo/Lisa! That is awesome to hear (and represents very much
what I hear around my local area when polling the game stores).
I reminds me of a certain rant: "When life gave you lemons, you make lemonade."
No, when life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. GET MAD! I DON'T WANT YOUR DAMN LEMONS! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THESE?! DEMAND TO SEE LIFE'S MANAGER! Make life RUE the day it though it could give Paizo lemons! I'm going to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that's going to BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!
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Well done Paizo/Lisa! That is awesome to hear (and represents very much
what I hear around my local area when polling the game stores).I reminds me of a certain rant: "When life gave you lemons, you make lemonade."
No, when life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back. GET MAD! I DON'T WANT YOUR DAMN LEMONS! WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THESE?! DEMAND TO SEE LIFE'S MANAGER! Make life RUE the day it though it could give Paizo lemons! I'm going to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that's going to BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN!
I think you're supposed to be using your Cave Johnson alias there. :D
Thanks for the back up.
If we all tried to learn the skills and put our resources together we Pathfinder players could make our own Pathfinder game / mod (non-profit so no royalties, and may require Paizo's permission) and show that a Pathfinder game is profitable to make commericially and those that worked on it may get hired to help in the commercial version of the game.
There's some diversity of opinion here as to what kind of game people are looking for. I see votes for:
1. A Temple of Elemental Evil-style game: isometric view, turn-based combat that tries to preserve all the combat options and skills of the original game.
2. Neverwinter Nights: single player, 1st-person (with optional overhead) perspective, Dragon Age/Baldur's Gate style simultaneous turns (pause-and-play). This would inherently alter the Pathfinder rules.Personally, I would prefer a ToEE-style game, set to an epic story of the quality like was seen in the Baldur's Gate series. I love the Pathfinder rules and would prefer to play with them without modification. And there already is a community of people, Circle of Eight, who have been modding ToEE. They'll have some know-how as to the inner workings of the software engine.
On the other hand, Neverwinter Nights has the advantage of being designed from the get-go to allow for people to create their own adventures and worlds.
I happen to have played both and like the two styles equally, each has it's own advantage and disadvantage.
If the community does decide to make a mod, the engine should be picked carefully as some are more friendly, modular, better supported and or configurable. But who says we make one game/mod, why not two games; one following ToEE style and the other Never Winter Nights style or you could make the game configurable to real-time or turn-based (thinking Chrono Trigger on Play Station 1)
I'll ask this now;
WHO is willing to make the game,
WHO has the DESIGN DOCUMENT (critical part for game dev) ready
WHAT style of the game is used (ToEE, or NWN),
WHAT Engine will it use (Source, Unreal, Unity, Build, etc..),
WHO knows how to Program,
WHAT will you use to program it (MS Visual Studio, Borland, etc..),
HOW will you program it,
WHO Knows how to create Assets (models, animation, textures, etc..),
WHAT will you use to create the Assets (3DsMax, MAYA, XSI),
HOW will you create the Assets,
Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
You're welcome!
To be clear, though, you're saying that it's your belief that the Pathfinder brand has a higher sales volume than the D&D brand?
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
You're welcome!
To be clear, though, you're saying that it's your belief that the Pathfinder brand has a higher sales volume than the D&D brand?
I can't exactly speak for Lisa, but I suspect she stated what she did based on more than just a hunch.
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CEO
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Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
You're welcome!
To be clear, though, you're saying that it's your belief that the Pathfinder brand has a higher sales volume than the D&D brand?
At this time in history, that is what I have been told by people in the hobby distribution trade, the book trade, and other avenues that both games sell their products into. If you talk to the various retailers, it is a mixed bag, with one telling you one thing and another a different story. But when you talk to the folks who sell those retailers the product that they sell, then you get a clearer picture.
And I am just talking table-top RPG business. I am not talking about board games or card games or video games or whatnot. Just books and digital copies of those books for use in playing a table-top RPG.
-Lisa
Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
You're welcome!
To be clear, though, you're saying that it's your belief that the Pathfinder brand has a higher sales volume than the D&D brand?
I can't exactly speak for Lisa, but I suspect she stated what she did based on more than just a hunch.
I'm sure she did. I just want to make sure I understand what she's saying before I repeat it elsewhere. I dislike it when people misrepresent the words of others, even unintentionally, and I'd like to avoid doing the same myself.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2012
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I'm sure she did. I just want to make sure I understand what she's saying before I repeat it elsewhere. I dislike it when people misrepresent the words of others, even unintentionally, and I'd like to avoid doing the same myself.Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
You're welcome!
To be clear, though, you're saying that it's your belief that the Pathfinder brand has a higher sales volume than the D&D brand?
I can't exactly speak for Lisa, but I suspect she stated what she did based on more than just a hunch.
That is very thoughtful of you.
Looks like she clarified things for you, so you should be good to go.
At this time in history, that is what I have been told by people in the hobby distribution trade, the book trade, and other avenues that both games sell their products into.
Thanks for the clarification! And, if your information is representative of the industry as a whole, you and the entire Paizo team deserve some serious congratulations!
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CEO
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At this time in history, that is what I have been told by people in the hobby distribution trade, the book trade, and other avenues that both games sell their products into.Thanks for the clarification! And, if your information is representative of the industry as a whole, you and the entire Paizo team deserve some serious congratulations!
Thanks! We are pretty excited.
Now as for a Pathfinder computer-based game...
-Lisa
<Insert maddening teaser>
Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Holy crap...that's amazing. A few years ago I considered that flat-out impossible. You guys realize this is not unlike RC outselling Coke, right?
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Either way, the point was more market share than sales. How many people play the game? I won't have any numbers more than anyone else would, but all you need to do is walk through the Pathfinder vs. D&D gaming areas at a neutral con to get an idea.
Uh, you do know that Lisa is not some rube who fell off the turnip truck and wandered in here to share anecdotal evidence about sales at her local gaming store, right?
Also, the plural of anecdote is not data. Walking into a "neutral" con (whatever that is) and seeing who's playing what is about as useful as going to your neighborhood bar, asking who everyone will vote for, and claiming you conducted a presidential poll. Further, given that revenue for Paizo and WotC is generated through books/products sold, and not per game played, I have diffculty believing that market share is the more appropriate measure, particularly if you can't tie it back to purchases. At least insofar as you're concerned with the ability of the game to continue existing because it generates sufficient revenue.
Gains additional marketshare...over what? Pathfinder's core market is made of a group of devoted 3.5 players who did not want to transition to the new version of the game. So Pathfinder's market had it's initial influx of players when it released, and I am betting has remained stable since then.And you would have lost your bet. :) We have seen an every growing number of folks getting into Pathfinder. We are selling Core Rulebooks at a faster clip now than we were a year ago. Not exactly sure where these people are coming from, but they are coming and FAST!
-Lisa
If you design it, they will come... But seriously, the last two Saturdays, I've run "We be Goblins" and "Realm of the Fellknight Queen." Both games included a total of 5 players who hadn't tried Pathfinder before. They all loved it and want to play again. I'd like to say it was my GM skills that got them excited, but I think having well written, fun, interesting adventures is what sold it. At my local FLGS, card games and mini games trump both Pathfinder and 4e as far as what games are frequently played there. I'm working with the store owner to hopefully do more games there to increase exposure. For example, it'd be awesome to have a short scenario using Ultimate Combat when it comes out, even if its something downloadable like a PFS scenario to help spread the gospel though I realize Paizo's resource are always severely taxed.