As for the topic, I selfishly hope there is no Pathfinder game. I have a weak Will save vs. RGPs and I would neglect work, school, freelancing, etc. just to play it.
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Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.Holy crap...that's amazing. A few years ago I considered that flat-out impossible. You guys realize this is not unlike RC outselling Coke, right?
Flagged for comparing Pathfinder to nasty off-brand sodas.
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Flagged for comparing Pathfinder to nasty off-brand sodas.Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.Holy crap...that's amazing. A few years ago I considered that flat-out impossible. You guys realize this is not unlike RC outselling Coke, right?
Yeah, really! It's more like classic coke outselling the new coke!*
*I had to do it. It was just so... OBVIOUS! :P
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Were I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
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Were I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Where are you at? I'm sure there are plenty of friendly folks around who'd be willing to give you a hand and/or a game. :)
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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Were I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Did you look into Pathfinder Society? I have no idea how it works, but it's function is to bring together gaming groups. Maybe there's someone at your store who runs a game, and you just haven't run into them yet. Or try posting in the gamers seeking gamers section of the boards.
If you're interested in 4e, you probably want to get a subscription to their online toolset rather than purchase the books. Or start with the Rules Compendium or a similar product. Hopefully, someone who has purchased a 4e product within the past 2 years will step in and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the PHB, MM, and DMG are woefully out of sync with the official rules in the online tool and are not an appropriate starting point.
...I believe the PHB, MM, and DMG are woefully out of sync with the official rules in the online tool and are not an appropriate starting point.
That is my opinion as well. However, them there are fightin' words 'round these parts...
Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
You're welcome!
To be clear, though, you're saying that it's your belief that the Pathfinder brand has a higher sales volume than the D&D brand?
At this time in history, that is what I have been told by people in the hobby distribution trade, the book trade, and other avenues that both games sell their products into. If you talk to the various retailers, it is a mixed bag, with one telling you one thing and another a different story. But when you talk to the folks who sell those retailers the product that they sell, then you get a clearer picture.
And I am just talking table-top RPG business. I am not talking about board games or card games or video games or whatnot. Just books and digital copies of those books for use in playing a table-top RPG.
-Lisa
Rock. On.
Awesome!
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Were I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Why not try to get Pathfinder Society games running at your local store? It could juste that nobody wants to pick up the flag and just run with it.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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...I believe the PHB, MM, and DMG are woefully out of sync with the official rules in the online tool and are not an appropriate starting point.That is my opinion as well. However, them there are fightin' words 'round these parts...
If that statement, coupled by my invitation for someone more knowledgeable than me to chime in, consitutes fightin' words, then I say to such hypothetical person: "You, sir or madam, are an epic caliber dick, and should f+!* off and die."
Those are fightin' words.
At this time in history, that is what I have been told by people in the hobby distribution trade, the book trade, and other avenues that both games sell their products into.Thanks for the clarification! And, if your information is representative of the industry as a whole, you and the entire Paizo team deserve some serious congratulations!Thanks! We are pretty excited.
Now as for a Pathfinder computer-based game...
-Lisa
If you could get the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic/Mass Effect people to make it...
If that statement, coupled by my invitation for someone more knowledgeable than me to chime in, consitutes fightin' words, then I say to such hypothetical person: "You, sir or madam, are an epic caliber dick, and should f%~* off and die."
Those are fightin' words.
"Epic caliber dick" would be a really awesome job title...
"Hi, I'm Bob, vice-president of being an Epic Caliber Dick."
...I believe the PHB, MM, and DMG are woefully out of sync with the official rules in the online tool and are not an appropriate starting point.That is my opinion as well. However, them there are fightin' words 'round these parts...
Nah, pretty much every 4e player agrees that if they were going to introduce someone to 4e, they'd start with Essentials - for a player, one of the two Heroes books; for a DM, the DM's Kit. Once you're settled with those, you can consider expanding to the Monster Vault, a Rules Compendium, and/or a DDI subscription, depending on your needs.
Nah, pretty much every 4e player agrees that if they were going to introduce someone to 4e, they'd start with Essentials - for a player, one of the two Heroes books; for a DM, the DM's Kit. Once you're settled with those, you can consider expanding to the Monster Vault, a Rules Compendium, and/or a DDI subscription, depending on your needs.
If you buy the DM's Kit, Monster Vault, and one of the Heroes books, do you have a complete rule set, or do you need the Rules Compendium?
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Scott is totally right here. Pathfinder has surpassed D&D in most of the markets that I check.
Thanks for ninja'ing me Scott!
You're welcome!
To be clear, though, you're saying that it's your belief that the Pathfinder brand has a higher sales volume than the D&D brand?
At this time in history, that is what I have been told by people in the hobby distribution trade, the book trade, and other avenues that both games sell their products into. If you talk to the various retailers, it is a mixed bag, with one telling you one thing and another a different story. But when you talk to the folks who sell those retailers the product that they sell, then you get a clearer picture.
And I am just talking table-top RPG business. I am not talking about board games or card games or video games or whatnot. Just books and digital copies of those books for use in playing a table-top RPG.
-Lisa
Rock. On.
Awesome!
Agreed! Hearing that kind of news fills my shrivelled, decaying heart with joy!
Nah, pretty much every 4e player agrees that if they were going to introduce someone to 4e, they'd start with Essentials - for a player, one of the two Heroes books; for a DM, the DM's Kit. Once you're settled with those, you can consider expanding to the Monster Vault, a Rules Compendium, and/or a DDI subscription, depending on your needs.If you buy the DM's Kit, Monster Vault, and one of the Heroes books, do you have a complete rule set, or do you need the Rules Compendium?
Nope, the Rules Compendium isn't necessary. In fact, the majority of the rules are contained in each of the DM's Kit and Heroes books; they're designed so that you don't need to have both if you're only going to be DMing, or only going to be playing. The Monster Vault itself doesn't contain any system rules, just monsters, so even that isn't strictly necessary if you're just planning on running prepackaged adventures (a large adventure comes with the DM's Kit, too).
The Rules Compendium was designed as a "table reference" book, that could be passed around or quickly opened during a game in case there was any confusion as to how a part of the game worked. I can't really speak to its utility; I own it, but I play with a laptop in front of me at the table, so whenever I need to look up a rule I pull up the online Compendium or just reference the DM Screen.
Nope, the Rules Compendium isn't necessary. In fact, the majority of the rules are contained in each of the DM's Kit and Heroes books; they're designed so that you don't need to have both if you're only going to be DMing, or only going to be playing. The Monster Vault itself doesn't contain any system rules, just monsters, so even that isn't strictly necessary if you're just planning on running prepackaged adventures (a large adventure comes with the DM's Kit, too).
The Rules Compendium was designed as a "table reference" book, that could be passed around or quickly opened during a game in case there was any confusion as to how a part of the game worked. I can't really speak to its utility; I own it, but I play with a laptop in front of me at the table, so whenever I need to look up a rule I pull up the online Compendium or just reference the DM Screen.
I see...thanks. That bit has always been somewhat unclear to me (though maybe it is just me).
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I see...thanks. That bit has always been somewhat unclear to me (though maybe it is just me).Nope, the Rules Compendium isn't necessary. In fact, the majority of the rules are contained in each of the DM's Kit and Heroes books; they're designed so that you don't need to have both if you're only going to be DMing, or only going to be playing. The Monster Vault itself doesn't contain any system rules, just monsters, so even that isn't strictly necessary if you're just planning on running prepackaged adventures (a large adventure comes with the DM's Kit, too).
The Rules Compendium was designed as a "table reference" book, that could be passed around or quickly opened during a game in case there was any confusion as to how a part of the game worked. I can't really speak to its utility; I own it, but I play with a laptop in front of me at the table, so whenever I need to look up a rule I pull up the online Compendium or just reference the DM Screen.
Not just you, I got the red box at pax, and had a heck of a time figuring out whether or not I needed to get the rules compendium and the heroes books, or could get by with just one. The red box made me leery of accidentally buying another pay-to-preview product again. Threw my hands up eventually and started looking at Hackmaster Basic instead.
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Were I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Please check out pathfinder Society on Facebook. You can meet local people interested in the game.
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Please check out pathfinder Society on Facebook. You can meet local people interested in the game.Were I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Also, check out Pathfinder Society on the forums here. There may be a few players by you.
You guys realize this is not unlike RC outselling Coke, right?
Totally unlike. It would be like a good soft drink outselling Coke. :)
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Were I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Wow how did this post end up here. I posted in a different thread. At least I thought I did
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Wow how did this post end up here. I posted in a different thread. At least I thought I didWere I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Nope, it's here! Still, you should heed the advice here. It's good stuff. Check out PFS or the gamer connection forums. :)
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Nope, it's here! Still, you should heed the advice here. It's good stuff. Check out PFS or the gamer connection forums. :)Wow how did this post end up here. I posted in a different thread. At least I thought I didWere I live i find Pathfinder non existent. both the game store near me sell the books, they sell fast I am told by the shop keep, but neither store runs a game.
I have purchased the core book, advanced plays guide, ultimate magic,game mastery guide, inner sea world guide, bestiary 1 and 2, and also some module, i planed on starting my own game. No takers. I can not get it off the ground.
I am actually considering buying into 4e because at least I can play at the local store that way.
Also, I've had good luck with this site.
At this time in history, that is what I have been told by people in the hobby distribution trade, the book trade, and other avenues that both games sell their products into.Thanks for the clarification! And, if your information is representative of the industry as a whole, you and the entire Paizo team deserve some serious congratulations!Thanks! We are pretty excited.
Now as for a Pathfinder computer-based game...
-Lisa
I know it is a possibility,
but would you have Pathfinder fans try to make "The Game" or would you have a company make "The Game".Each choice will have Advantages and Disadvantages
If it's Pathfinder fans, I will toss in my hat as I am almost done My Game Development program at Algonquin College. I know A DESIGN DOCUMENT will be needed along with the fans (Volunteers will get more say) or Paizo (Mostly) deciding Who, What, When, Why, and How for the development.
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A Pathfinder digital game is something that an established studio (irrespective of size) ought to be handling, not a barely-connected group of fans.
A Pathfinder digital game is something that an established studio (irrespective of size) ought to be handling, not a barely-connected group of fans.Why not both?
Because one of the two is more likely to be critically successful and reflect well on the Pathfinder brand.
The other is more likely to fall apart 10% of the way through the development process.
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A Pathfinder digital game is something that an established studio (irrespective of size) ought to be handling, not a barely-connected group of fans.
Was Counter-Strike made by a studio, Answer NO, it was made by Half-life players.
True, a studio could make a way better game, but would require upfront payment for EVERY milestone reached, and the company could request I.P. acquisition as a form of wager (rare, but it happens) if certain events happen.
A group of Fans, with the skills, could form a MOD team, it would be free for Paizo, as each Volunteering Fan is doing it because he wishes to see the end result and you have a bunch of people who may pull off a mod of equal quality to a studio. Also if the MOD team does a really GOOD job, Paizo could get them to produce new Content, or a sequel to the MOD.
Mind you if it is done by the Pathfinder Fans, Paizo should become the PUBLISHER meaning the Pathfinder Fans are the DEVELOPER. The Pathfinder fans WILL have to listen to Paizo on any item that concerns the game's development.
All the tools are out there along with the tutorials of how to use them.
Note- if Pathfinder looks into making a computer-based game (which would be awesome), please have some thought for the Mac users. Because I would buy a Pathfinder computer game. As soon as it came out.
If the right Game Engine (like the Source Engine) is used, Macs should be OK to run it.
Was Counter-Strike made by a studio, Answer NO, it was made by Half-life players.
Was Counter-Strike a video game extension of an established media brand with a hardcore fanbase? No.
Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, especially when the apple you're trying to tie the comparison to is a mythical golden apple that has only fallen off a tree a handful of times in the history of digital entertainment.
A fan project is not a reliable wagon to hitch your brand to when it decides to branch out into new markets.
True, a studio could make a way better game, but would require upfront payment for EVERY milestone reached, and the company could request I.P. acquisition as a form of wager (rare, but it happens) if certain events happen.
That's if you contract out the development of your project, rather than licensing out the IP for development. The latter is more common in situations like this.
A group of Fans, with the skills, could form a MOD team, it would be free for Paizo, as each Volunteering Fan is doing it because he wishes to see the end result and you have a bunch of people who may pull off a mod of equal quality to a studio. Also if the MOD team does a really GOOD job, Paizo could get them to produce new Content, or a sequel to the MOD.
No. I'm bursting your bubble, here, but this is not a good way to breach the digital gaming space.
Don't believe me? Name five examples in the last 10 years of video game titles produced by a start-up group of internet fans of a specific IP, developed with the blessing of the IP holder - and free of licensing royalties - which went on to become critical and commercial successes.
Meanwhile, I can name five examples in the last 10 years featuring the D&D brand alone where a studio (or publisher) received license to produce a Dungeons & Dragons video game that went on to receive commercial success and critical acclaim.
If you can't think of five examples of your proposed path turning out well, why would Paizo decide to go down such an unreliable path?
If you would like to develop a Pathfinder video game, grab a bunch of people with some serious coding and digital asset creation chops (oh, and someone capable of effectively managing them), make a game that has nothing to do with Pathfinder and get it to sell like hotcakes. Then, once you've got a runaway indie success under your belt, come to Paizo with an offer to obtain a license to produce a Pathfinder game.
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A Pathfinder digital game is something that an established studio (irrespective of size) ought to be handling, not a barely-connected group of fans.Why not both?Because one of the two is more likely to be critically successful and reflect well on the Pathfinder brand.
The other is more likely to fall apart 10% of the way through the development process.
On one hand i would say screw critical success...if an indipendent studio of fans made a pathfinder game, would you buy it? I know i would, even if it turned out to be crap. Plus fans are more likely to make a GOOD pathfinder game, because studios care about profit first and other things second, and that is not what i am looking at in a PF game.
And as i said, why not let both make a game? Paizo could hire a major game studio to make an officital Pathfinder game, and the fans could be making the unofficial version. And then, if the unofficial version turned out to be good, then Paizo could "officilize" it.
Do not underestimate fans.
I'd love to see the same flexibility afforded paper / PDF products via the OGL extended to computer games. It couldn't be via the OGL but perhaps something that Paizo drafted separately that allowed for free use of the rules, monsters, etc. (OGC, of course) in computer games. Though I doubt that'd be legally feasible, however, as the PFRPG rules are OGC themselves and bound by the original OGL.
Wouldn't mind seeing Blizzard develop a game.I would. i'd like to play it in this lifetime...
Conversely, I wouldn't want Bethesda to develop it, since it would be released, but they would leave hundreds or thousands of bugs and broken quests unpatched in perpetuity. It's just not a Bethesda game if there isn't a collection of unofficial patches made by the players.
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I think the PMG should make it. ;)
EDIT: Well him and the 12 year olds.
I'd love to see the same flexibility afforded paper / PDF products via the OGL extended to computer games. It couldn't be via the OGL but perhaps something that Paizo drafted separately that allowed for free use of the rules, monsters, etc. (OGC, of course) in computer games. Though I doubt that'd be legally feasible, however, as the PFRPG rules are OGC themselves and bound by the original OGL.
If I remember correctly parts of the OGL can be used and apply to software.
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A Pathfinder digital game is something that an established studio (irrespective of size) ought to be handling, not a barely-connected group of fans.
Yeah, leave the fanbois to magazine publishing, website building or other simple stuff like that :)
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A Pathfinder digital game is something that an established studio (irrespective of size) ought to be handling, not a barely-connected group of fans.Yeah, leave the fanbois to magazine publishing, website building or other simple stuff like that :)
Hoo boy! No kidding. I'm so glad we went with an established artist for our book. :P
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Wouldn't mind seeing Blizzard develop a game.
Blizzard is a great company no doubt, but
I would prefer a company with more RPG experience, like Obsidian (NWN2) or BioWare (BioWare did Balders Gate, NWN1 and Dragon Age).As for the Engine I think the Source Engine would do, as it's Modular, Flexible, tools are easily available for modding nuts(a great bonus), Has vertex Deformation (great stuff, like Morphing PC models, or Configurable PC Models), and usable on PC and Mac.
For goodness sake, the question isn't "who would be better to develop a Pathfinder game?" Rather, the question is "why are we arguing about it?"