Cognatogens are treated as mutagens. Ferral mutagen discovery applies to any mutagen you drink.
Would Ferral apply to Cognatogens ?
Now in case your wondering why the hell would you want to have 3 natural attacks while boosting mental stats.
Here's the Combo
Ferral Cognatogen + Guided Amulet of Mighty fists (+1)
The Guided enchantment uses WIS instead of STR for attacks and damage. since natural attack only use 1x STR for dmg they don't lose out for using guided enchantment.
Thus the cognatogen is improving both your bomb extracts and melee attacks.
The secondary benefit is now the one weak spot for the alchemist, her will save is now strong.
If you take this to it grand cognatogen conclusion then a starting WIS of say 14 is now +6 from Cognatogen (+8 goes to INT) and +6 from headband and you've got 26 WIS = +7 to your will save which should see it on par with your strong Ref and Fort saves.
heh no one want to touch this one ?
I understand the concept and have already begun converting contagions into the master chymist PRC.
It was an idea that was just crying to be made but wasn't so I'll do the footwork if I have to.
Cognatogen MC PRC interesting hadn't thought that far, its an interesting concept the Viscous and Feral Super Genius
It makes me think early days X-Men Beast tbh.
-
I was thinking Pak Protector from Ringworld
just digging up this old question as I never actually found an answer anyone want to weigh in ?
I don't see why it wouldn't work. Mutagen and Cognatogen are largely interchangeable. I see the combination, but I'm not sure how it's useful. If you were able to gain something to attack using Intelligence, sure, but Wisdom isn't generally an important alchemist stat.
Honestly, I'd stick with the standard mutagen, apply it to Dexterity. Use an Amulet of Mighty Fists for the Agile enchantment, letting you add your Dex to damage. The Dex boost would also increase your AC, reflex, and ranged attack rolls for your bombs.
I'll show the combo it works for
Greater or Grand cognatogen using secondary stat bump for WIS , combine with Guided Amulet of Mighty Fists
apply WIS bonus to attack and damage
the really nice thing about this combo gives you a reason to put a few extra points into WIS, dump strength. and then with cognatogen on you've got a will save worth a damn.
guided specifically doesn't let you use 1.5x mod for two handed but for 1x dmg mod on natural weapons it makes no difference
I'd personally go more for Sunset's Agile amulet over the guided. Dex bumps way more stuff than Wis. Sure higher will saves and 5 skills bumped are nice, but when weighed vs. Reflex, AC, Init, CMD (possibly CMB also with Agile maneuvers) and 7 skills, I'd go for dex over wis any day.
Sunset's Agile amulet? never heard of it where's it from ?
as for wis vs dex
as a flat comparison sure, for the alchemist not as much, alchemist gets a boatload of natural armor and can use regular armor as well , even his bombs don't need much dex to hit and hit often.
Besides if you want to be a dex alchemist you'd have just gone with normal mutagen with the dex boost
occurred to me that you can make this work without ferral mutagen by simply using one of the many polymorph spells to give you a bunch of natural attacks.
so I guess no real reason why you couldn't allow it
occurred to me that you can make this work without ferral mutagen by simply using one of the many polymorph spells to give you a bunch of natural attacks.
so I guess no real reason why you couldn't allow it
InsaneFox has the right of this. Cognatogen has no text in it stating that it counts as a mutagen for the purposes of feats and the like. It only says it has the same limitations. It also specifically says:
The infuse mutagen discovery and the persistent mutagen class ability apply to cognatogens.
This implies an exclusive list. These are the only mutagen things which also apply to cognatogen. So you cannot have a feral cognatogen.
Also isn't guided 3.5, not PF?
occurred to me that you can make this work without ferral mutagen by simply using one of the many polymorph spells to give you a bunch of natural attacks.
so I guess no real reason why you couldn't allow it
InsaneFox has the right of this. Cognatogen has no text in it stating that it counts as a mutagen for the purposes of feats and the like. It only says it has the same limitations. It also specifically says:
The infuse mutagen discovery and the persistent mutagen class ability apply to cognatogens.This implies an exclusive list. These are the only mutagen things which also apply to cognatogen. So you cannot have a feral cognatogen.
I can live with it a Monsterous Humanoid Cognatogen or Undead Anatomy Cognatogen, should suffice for providing natural attacks
Also isn't guided 3.5, not PF?
its from curse of the crimson throne
I made a combo like that using cognatogens once. I buffed my Int a bunch and and used the explosive missile discovery to strap it to a crossbow bolt. I also took focused shot so my bolt/bomb would do bolt damage + bomb damage + int mod (from focused shot) + int mod (from bombs). Oh and plus splash damage.
Ha was a rather effective character. Quite a fun background too
I'd personally go more for Sunset's Agile amulet over the guided. Dex bumps way more stuff than Wis. Sure higher will saves and 5 skills bumped are nice, but when weighed vs. Reflex, AC, Init, CMD (possibly CMB also with Agile maneuvers) and 7 skills, I'd go for dex over wis any day.Sunset's Agile amulet? never heard of it where's it from ?
as for wis vs dex
as a flat comparison sure, for the alchemist not as much, alchemist gets a boatload of natural armor and can use regular armor as well , even his bombs don't need much dex to hit and hit often.
Besides if you want to be a dex alchemist you'd have just gone with normal mutagen with the dex boost
He was referring to my comment about sticking with the standard mutagen, applying it to Dexterity, then getting an Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Guided property, allowing you to use Dexterity for attack and damage. The extra AC (stacking nicely with the natural armor of the mutagen), reflex, initiative, and saves are a nice result of this, as well.
He was referring to my comment about sticking with the standard mutagen, applying it to Dexterity, then getting an Amulet of Mighty Fists with the Guided property, allowing you to use Dexterity for attack and damage. The extra AC (stacking nicely with the natural armor of the mutagen), reflex, initiative, and saves are a nice result of this, as well.I'd personally go more for Sunset's Agile amulet over the guided. Dex bumps way more stuff than Wis. Sure higher will saves and 5 skills bumped are nice, but when weighed vs. Reflex, AC, Init, CMD (possibly CMB also with Agile maneuvers) and 7 skills, I'd go for dex over wis any day.Sunset's Agile amulet? never heard of it where's it from ?
as for wis vs dex
as a flat comparison sure, for the alchemist not as much, alchemist gets a boatload of natural armor and can use regular armor as well , even his bombs don't need much dex to hit and hit often.
Besides if you want to be a dex alchemist you'd have just gone with normal mutagen with the dex boost
errr ... the guided property is what I'm using to add WIS to attack and damage , how are you adding DEX to attack and damage ?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
Ok... a few more thoughts on this.
You can't use your wisdom on any other weapons, so you are going to be terrible in melee when you don't have your mutagen going. Similarly, you won't be able to take strength based feats such as Power Attack... which is pretty severely limiting.
its from curse of the crimson throne
And CotCT is a 3.5 product, not PF. So since it's not PF it isn't legal, you need your GM to house rule you can take it. Or am I missing something?
Thus the cognatogen is improving both your bomb extracts and melee attacks.How is it improving your bombs? I guess because it doesn't reduce your INT?
On a direct hit, an alchemist’s bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier.
Cognatogen starts at +4INT, then +6INT/+4WIS and finally +8INT/+6WIS/+4CHA
your effectively increasing bomb dmg by +2/+3/+4
Ideally your prime stat for such an alchemist is INT meaning you have a larger number of extracts to play with as well, not to mention a better supply of bombs which are going to hurt even without the mutagen.
I consider the Guided Amulet a backup when you've exhausted your bombs and can flick on a polymorph and use your increase WIS modifer to melee with, its not a primary ability more a handy backup.
|
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
On a direct hit, an alchemist’s bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier.
Yeah, I get that. With all the talk about the guided amulet of mighty fists I thought you were talking about boosting WIS not INT.
I suppose once you get past 12th level you boost both.
On a direct hit, an alchemist’s bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier.Yeah, I get that. With all the talk about the guided amulet of mighty fists I thought you were talking about boosting WIS not INT.
I suppose once you get past 12th level you boost both.
yeah that's basically the plan. turns him into pretty decent switch hitter