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Ok players, I have run into this a couple times, and it is becoming terribly relevant in the near future. Too many of you think your faction is just a name or nationality and you get told to do weird things during the course of an operation. Please know the following as the fate of the Pathfinder Society lays in the balance.
1. WHO YOUR FACTION LEADER IS, oh and a bit of information about them, could be useful.....maybe.
2. What your faction stands for and it's main goals.
3. Should your character find out information about another or rival faction, remember that information belongs to that character, don't bring it about with another PC.
4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.
There are going to be several new factions soon and some of them may be Shadow Lodge factions, though you probably won't know it. Also some factions that exist now will likely be revealed as Shadow Lodge factions. Recent chronicles make it imperetive that you know your faction and know it well. If you do not you will make things difficult for your GM and may cause the demise of other players because you had your thumb up your nose.
Th factions are a driving force behind to PFS and what makes it a really great living campaign. Take it seriously. You players are generally great and as a GM the quality of play is superior oitherwise I wouldn't be so ready to pick up a chronicle for ya. However, help out your GM and know this stuff.
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1. WHO YOUR FACTION LEADER IS, oh and a bit of information about them, could be useful.....maybe.
2. What your faction stands for and it's main goals.
3. Should your character find out information about another or rival faction, remember that information belongs to that character, don't bring it about with another PC.
4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.
5. If you are unable to adhere to rules 1-4, join the Andoran Collective.
-Matt
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#4 has nothing to do with being a Paladin. Factions were *initially* supposed to be secret. Over the years "it didn't matter" any more, but yr3 will make it matter again.If you want to broadcast who you work for, that's fine. But it has NOTHING to do with being a paladin.
JP
I'm not sure what the emphasis on Paladin is here. Paladins have a code and severe alignment restriction. In that way they are likely to feel more bound in their actions. I don't think the player said that everybody has to act that way because they are paladins. I think he just said that his character did and is a paladin. Kudos to the player if he refuses a mission on the grounds that it violates his code.
I don't play a paladin character, but it seems that many people who post don't like them much.|
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Deluge,
Read Jesse's post, He refuses to keep his allegiance a secret BECAUSE he's a paladin.JP
No I don't think so. It's all in how you read it. There's no "because" in his post. Go easy on the guy.
I find most players don't keep their allegience secret (for many reasons). It is hard to maintain the illusion of secrecy once you have adventured with the same people for a while. No excuses though, I like the idea of secret factions, but I accept the reality of matters.
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The Interpretation on paladin actions has been a derisive discussion for decades. Let's not go down that path again.
Focusing on AZhobbit's post, I think he makes some good points. Too often we see the factions relegated to secondary concepts and players do not invest much, if any, time or effort to incorporate into their character's bio. With the upcoming release of five new factions, it should be possible for nearly every player to embrace a faction and its ideology.
That being said, I don't want to see the factions over-shadow the overall goals of the society. We've all seen players who are more concerned with completing faction missions than the primary task. Hopefully that will change at the start of season four and the new PA awards process.
Also, with the "competition" starting in season four, we may see more players keeping their faction, and missions, secret.
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Problem at our lgs is majority of the players barely know how to play the frakkin game, let alone what their character would do outside of what is fun at the time, and definitely dont care enough to read info about the factions to properly pick one that fits your character before the game starts.
Honestly, this sounds like a leadership issue in your gameday. You should always have your veteran GM's run the newer tables to help the PC's acclimate to the game and enhance their experience, and make them want to comeback. We were all new players at some point and a fun time made us keep role playing. Pathfinder does require a bit more savvy to role play since we are not random adventurers hacking our way through the countryside. You do sound angry in your post, and if you are still this peeved at your group then they know it and this causes them not comeback or just outright defy you. If you are a veteran player then talk with them and help them rather than criticize.
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Deluge,
Read Jesse's post, He refuses to keep his allegiance a secret BECAUSE he's a paladin.JP
Yep. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to play the class to me. Having a principled stand against lying and deceit sounds like how I tend to play the class as well. Though one could make an argument that refusing to inform someone of something that is not their business is not the same as lying.
Den
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Deluge,
Read Jesse's post, He refuses to keep his allegiance a secret BECAUSE he's a paladin.JP
Yep. Sounds like a perfectly reasonable way to play the class to me. Having a principled stand against lying and deceit sounds like how I tend to play the class as well. Though one could make an argument that refusing to inform someone of something that is not their business is not the same as lying.
Den
And i just noticed that i bit the worm on a potential paladin thread. All done.
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This could be a useful thread to remind people they're also making characters who are members of the Pathfinder Society, an organization dedicated to Exploring, Reporting and Cooperating.
Please take some knowledge skills and don't focus entirely on combat when you build your character. That isn't helpful for a table to have two or three people playing dead weight combat brutes who should have joined a mercenary company. I really don't want to see this turn into an arms race like Living Greyhawk did in the Shield Lands. Seriously folks, pretty please with sugar on top.
Something talky, something sneaky, something smart, have some diverse skills and be active in the story of the module. Don't tank your intelligence!
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I really don't want to see this turn into an arms race like Living Greyhawk did in the Shield Lands. Seriously folks, pretty please with sugar on top.
Seriously? I don't know who you played with in the Shield Lands, but the people I played with were heavy on the role-playing and light on the roll-playing. There was many a battle that we barely made it through by the skin of our teeth, just because somebody wouldn't do something because it wasn't in character. I also lost a lot of treasure and experience because we were playing in character instead of battle mode.
BtT, Some groups just don't want to role-play. You can't stop them from playing the game. Asking people now days to know their faction leader, his/her favorite food and tactics, and what are the general goals, is like asking an average American if they know who is the current President and Vice President and where they stand on the issues. Quite a few don't know and don't care.
Just to show I know.
President: Barrack Hussein Obama
Vice President: Joe Biden
Goals: Progressive Liberal Democrat (enough said)
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Honestly, this sounds like a leadership issue in your gameday. You should always have your veteran GM's run the newer tables to help the PC's acclimate to the game and enhance their experience, and make them want to comeback. We were all new players at some point and a fun time made us keep role playing. Pathfinder does require a bit more savvy to role play since we are not random adventurers hacking our way through the countryside. You do sound angry in your post, and if you are still this peeved at your group then they know it and this causes them not comeback or just outright defy you. If you are a veteran player then talk with them and help them rather than criticize.
9/10 times a vetern GM runs any given session at our venue. Unfortunately, we dont have enough attendance (especially lately) to have tables just for newer players, so they get lumped in with everyone else, which is generally fine.
A bit angry perhaps, in all honesty, though its of no concern to me if they want to push through roleplay to just hack n slash. If they go off course and try to kill every npc in sight, that can be annoying sure, but its easy to reign them back in. Also, I make it a point (especially with the younger players) to make helpful suggestions rather than criticize.
We do have several people who want to do the roleplay as well as the rollplay, but we are a little squashed for time most days we meet, so that probably adds to the 'lets hurry and get through the encounters so we can make sure we dont go over time' attitude.
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I don't think it's up to the GMs to provide "leadership" regarding factions, or explain them to players (besides a minimal amount for new players). If players really want to know about factions, they have to look it up themselves.
Fyi, of all my GMs (top GMs from Gencon), none of them explained factions or featured them in a scenario.
The truth is, there is very little TIME to roleplay the factions (let alone explain them through storytelling) during our very short scenario sessions.
In most scenarios, I sometimes wish factions missions weren't even there because most of the time they don't add anything to the story, and they take time away from the overall mission. I'm finding this is really a problem, because my home group likes to roleplay and has been playing the factions, but it's caused a few sessions to go overtime. After some scenarios, my players have expressed that they wish the faction missions weren't even there. My players (all former LG players) don't really like the factions tbh (except for the Cheliax guy).
Two of my players only understand their factions minimally... yet they've played their factions as well as any player I've ever seen at Gencon or elsewhere. So whether a player "knows their faction" or not, I see very little difference.
The truth is, if you're truly playing your faction, it can create a lot of conflict at a table, and some scenarios are worse for this than others. Almost every scenario I've GMed or played, I've seen conflict, but players always "let it go".
This isn't to say I don't like factions, they have a lot of potential, however time is always the issue. Right now factions are given just a token knod at most tables, but that's all we have time for.
I'm glad that in season 3, factions only have one (interesting / difficult) mission per scenario.
In most scenarios, I sometimes wish factions missions weren't even there because most of the time they don't add anything to the story, and they take time away from the overall mission.
+1
With regards to the original post -- I have characters who revel in their faction, and I have characters who barely give a hoot about their faction. I don't think that I'm playing the game wrong when I play the latter type, but YMMV.
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Ummm, you see that little eagle next to my name? Yeah, that's how secret my faction affiliation is.
Anyone I game with can find me on this message board and see it plain as day. Since I play with a regular crowd at the FLGS, this is alot easier than you think.
And whomever said Andoran was a good class choice for a Ranger needs to have their head examined. Diplomacy isn't a class skill for me, and Charisma's not something a Ranger places a high number in, but at least one of my faction missions are always dependant on some god awful high Diplomacy roll.
The only way I've been able to complete them all thus far is by finding out which player has a decent skill in it and asking them for help, and offering to help them with theirs if I can.
I think this whole secret faction mission stuff is nonsense of the highest regard. There's no interparty conflict allowed, so no one has to help anyone with their mission, but they're really not supposed to try to sabotage them either. So who cares?
Besides, everyone in the group has to work together to complete the adventure, so why shouldn't they work together to complete their faction missions as well? Everyone wants to survive and everyone wants their prestige points. They need them so that they can have access to buying more expensive equipment, and for their other fringe benefits.
So yes, I am going to help the Cheliax person collect theirs because I want that player to be happy and enjoy the rewards of surviving and completing their task, and if they can help me complete mine? I'll be happy too.
If faction missions were for roleplaying only, then I can see them as useful to make the game more enjoyable for roleplayers. But since they are directly tied to how your characters power and survivability increases, they are must haves for anyone serious about thier meta-game advancement.
You can't put something out there who's effects are solely tied to the meta-game, and then complain when people want to meta-game it.
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Seriously? I don't know who you played with in the Shield Lands, but the people I played with were heavy on the role-playing and light on the roll-playing. There was many a battle that we barely made it through by the skin of our teeth, just because somebody wouldn't do something because it wasn't in character. I also lost a lot of treasure and experience because we were playing in character instead of battle mode.
I played at almost all of the conventions after year 3 and helped play test a lot of mods as well. Did quite a few games down in St. Anthony, ran a few too. Morgen here was one of the characters that got to watch Yoseph pretty much solo an Aspect of Tiamat at the Summoner's Ball. Good for you that you were having a fun time role-playing but seriously it got way out of hand. We had a Werewolf and a Shadow in an intro adventure. That kind of ridiculousness needs to not happen in the Pathfinder Society.
Ok players, I have run into this a couple times, and it is becoming terribly relevant in the near future. Too many of you think your faction is just a name or nationality and you get told to do weird things during the course of an operation. Please know the following as the fate of the Pathfinder Society lays in the balance.
1. WHO YOUR FACTION LEADER IS, oh and a bit of information about them, could be useful.....maybe.
2. What your faction stands for and it's main goals.
3. Should your character find out information about another or rival faction, remember that information belongs to that character, don't bring it about with another PC.
4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.There are going to be several new factions soon and some of them may be Shadow Lodge factions, though you probably won't know it. Also some factions that exist now will likely be revealed as Shadow Lodge factions. Recent chronicles make it imperetive that you know your faction and know it well. If you do not you will make things difficult for your GM and may cause the demise of other players because you had your thumb up your nose.
Th factions are a driving force behind to PFS and what makes it a really great living campaign. Take it seriously. You players are generally great and as a GM the quality of play is superior oitherwise I wouldn't be so ready to pick up a chronicle for ya. However, help out your GM and know this stuff.
That sounds fair enough but there can be problems.
I for one did try out a PFS modul today, i think it was called Dasline affaire or something. I did indeed get some basic info regarding about lvl, items and other basic stuff but i never got a link for the factions. To make it even more funny, i don't a have computer these days, cause it's old and melted down about a half year ago.
So for me today, i had myself an oracle of bones. I had no idea whatsoever what would happen. To make it short only one player survived this session and that was NOT me.
Yeah i got killed but i am cool with that, because it was my first time trying this, so i got a idea about how things were running and how the setting for PFS were which was my reason for joining this session
So what did i learn today?
For starters, i should NOT use my spells right away and think that i would be allowed anytime to rest.
Think more over about the char i make for the next time.
Lastly but not least, i need to get a basic grib of some of the basic rules regarding the different kinds of action.
I may have ben killed but still i'm game for this kind of thing.
Don't EVER excpect that one of your players know about the factions, sinds it's a organized game and open for everybody. I just feel lucky that the GM i had today was calm and cool, so he gaved me 5 mins of basic info which was all i needed.
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The factions are a driving force behind to PFS and what makes it a really great living campaign. Take it seriously.
1) As has been pointed out on a different thread, PFS is not one of the "Living" campaigns. If it were, then the factions would be secret societies (instead of one secret society encompassing the whole of playable options), be more numerous, and more directly tied to character ideology than location.
2) The factions are the driving force? Really? I honestly don't see it. Granted, I've missed a few mods and make no effort to stay abreast with the blogs (because I'm old and don't take blogging to be a serious means of conveying important information, especially in regards to a print-based company), but I honestly and truly don't see it. The factions seem to be something to distract us from the fact that Pathfinders aren't heroic characters (meaning they aren't out to do Good and Save the World) but they aren't allowed to be purely selfish (read: moralistically evil), so most of what the PCs do involves killing, theft, deception, and occasional acts of charity toward no clear end.Well, there's my major quibble with the campaign. I like most of the Golarion setting and feel that Paizo is better than expected as a company in terms of product quality, quantity, and receptivity to customer concerns. I like that Society play allows me to play locally and regionally with a stable of PCs as well as the fact that it has allowed me to run adventures for close to a dozen players who had no PF experience beforehand. I am aware the factions are supposed to be moving toward something, but it feels no different than any other from on-high directive I've seen in other OP situations.
So I will go ahead and apologize, as a player, for not being particularly concerned with the factions when only one of them even mildly appeals to me when considering making characters I would enjoy playing. The rules state they must be selected, and when the mission calls for secrecy, I try to oblige. But I'm not about to get concerned about how faction missions affect the future. Paizo can steer the boat anyway they want; whatever impact the players have through these missions is wholly theirs to determine.
TMc
4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.
Yeah, well... you see, that is kind of tough to pull off when people wear faction t-shirts to get goodies for their characters.
Yeah, well... you see, that is kind of tough to pull off when people wear faction t-shirts to get goodies for their characters.
4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.
Why do you assume people will always wear the same shirt as the faction of the character they are playing at the time?
Why do you assume people will always wear the same shirt as the faction of the character they are playing at the time?Yeah, well... you see, that is kind of tough to pull off when people wear faction t-shirts to get goodies for their characters.
4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.
Because, historically, they have.
Because, historically, they have.Why do you assume people will always wear the same shirt as the faction of the character they are playing at the time?Yeah, well... you see, that is kind of tough to pull off when people wear faction t-shirts to get goodies for their characters.
4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.
In my experience, they don't. I seldom seem to match up the character I am playing with a faction shirt. It depends on such factors such as if I am playing multiple characters that day, which shirt is clean, or even if I own the relevant shirt. From what I see from my tables, I am not the only one.
In any case, I am not sure how seeing what the player is wearing has any impact on what your character does, unless you are metagaming.
Oh, for the "goodies" I get for my characters, the last reroll I made saved the lives of myself and three other party members.
As an aside, whether or not I keep a faction (or even the missions) secret depends on what faction I have and how I am roleplaying the character. I don't particularly like such inflexible advice such as "never" tell anyone your faction. My stupid characters often just blurt it out, and even my smarter/wiser characters have been known to be tricked out of the info by another player.
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1. WHO YOUR FACTION LEADER IS, oh and a bit of information about them, could be useful.....maybe.
This has come up in a senerio or two, but I don't feel it's critical. It all depends on your character and his/her alliegance to their faction. My dwarven barbarian doesn't give a hoot who hands him his mission, but my friend's Cavalier...he notices ever time the Baron spells his name wrong.
2. What your faction stands for and it's main goals.
Why is this here? This should be #1. This IS what your faction is all about.
3. Should your character find out information about another or rival faction, remember that information belongs to that character, don't bring it about with another PC.
Arguable. If you know something is for someone else and they ask for it, you hand it over. It's sort of a "you scratch my back I scratch yours" thing. If I'm looking for a book and the Chelaxian finds it first, he hands it over to me, knowing that I'll owe him one and look the other way as he extorts a man for information. In our gaming group, we have a system of marking "I owe Bob one favor" on our chronical sheets.
That said, if it isn't brought to light that someone needs something, then that's their loss.4. Your faction is secret, so don't go blabbing it about. This could be very important in the near future.
Again, arguable. Its as secretive or blatant as you desire. Our cavalier intorduces himself with the line "I am Hernando Ruiz, Taldan Knight of the Shield." When we see him do something...off, he responds "Taldor requires it." Our one rogue remamined so secretive that everyone just kept guessing (Turns out he was Osirion, the only one we DIDN'T guess." Either option is equally viable. It's all about personality, of both the player and the character.
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Factions in our region (Finland) have become a way to define a character's personality. A chelish character oftend displays nihilistic realism and ruthlessness, where as Andoren are all about freedom freedom freedom.
To say every character should know a bunch of stuff about their faction is wrong in my mind. A character's allegiance always goes to Pathfinder Society first. To support this sentiment, every pathfinder attendee must undergo a three-year tutoring period during which they are taught to survive and fight along with other skills needed during expeditions. Having the strenght of mind to pull through this exhausting training period must be a sign of commitment. They can have allegiances towards other factions, of course, but getting to be a Pathfinder never was or will be an easy task.
What I'm trying to say is that a character needs to know more about Pathfinder Society than his or her faction.
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Being a member of a faction doesn't necessarily mean you support their goals, for some PCs their faction could just be some group they occasionally do favours for and receive favours in return.
That said I agree players should at least know and understand their faction. Even if only to avoid working against their benefactors goals.
With the new factions coming out there is opportunity to think about what motivates a character and who they support, and that's never a bad thing.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As a GM, I usually prepare only one faction briefing slip per faction. If the OP expects factions to be secret, then I'd have to prepare something like 30 or 40 pieces of paper. (After all, if you're keeping your faction secret from everybody, that would include other secret agents of the same government. And if I know that Bill is playing an agent of Osirion, and I see that Bill and Alicia are sharing a secret faction briefing, well, now I know where Alicia's loyalties lay.
Genadiy, my paladin, is very up-front about the missions he performs for Cheliax. It hasn't caused a problem so far.
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I find that players have an annoying habit of knowthing their faction and forgetting the main mission. Most of the time I would much rather they forget about collecting flowers from the side of the road and pay attention to the main mission.
+1
This has partly to do with the lack of general knowledge about the Society itself. Common belief is you can just apply to the Society and you're done. Seekers of Secrets cleared many things for me, but that book should have come out a long, long time ago.
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I find that players have an annoying habit of knowthing their faction and forgetting the main mission. Most of the time I would much rather they forget about collecting flowers from the side of the road and pay attention to the main mission.
I think this will be mitigated to an extend in season three with one PA being tied to completing the mission objective.