Sound Striker - Weird Words

[JiCi]

Upon reading the whole thing...
1) Pretty sure that you can focus all 10 words on one single target, or split them amonst targets fewer than 10.

2) Since it seems to be a sudden and direct attack, I doubt it can be maintained.

As for DR, since it's a supernatural ability, it doesn't count toward DR. However, should a creature be immune to a certain damage type or have a secondary effect upon being hit by a certain damage type, then the word's type applies normally.

[Charlie Bell]

Mrs. Bell has an interesting combo with sound striker. She is a geisha/sound striker bard. Tea ceremony lets you provide the benefits of inspire courage without having to maintain it. So she loads up the heavies and archers with inspire courage, then uses sound striker as needed.

[Ferious Thune]

I'm almost afraid to type this, but Rogue/Bard sneak attack? It's a standard action, so 6 to 10 sneak attacks in surprise round? Or am I missing something somewhere that says Sneak Attacks only applies to Rays or some such? From what I read under rogue, it's any ranged attack.

[claymade]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

These are also not rays, so none of the normal ray attack feats/abilities will stack on them... altho I have seen that tried in play. No: Arcane strike, point blank shot, (although precise will negate the melee penalty as I read it), inspire courage (has to drop to use weird words).

Actually, if we use the fact that the Weird Words aren't technically weapons to disallow the first two feats from applying, then that same technicality means two things:

1) Precise Shot won't have any effect. To quote the PRD, on the Precise Shot feat: "You can shoot or throw ranged weapons at an opponent engaged in melee without taking the standard –4 penalty on your attack roll."

But more importantly...

2) Precise Shot won't be necessary either. To quote the PRD on the Combat section: "If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll."

If the technicality of the Words not being weapons rules out the feat benefit, then it also rules out the penalty since they're both predicated on the same phrasing.

[StreamOfTheSky]

"No response required?"

Hell yeah, one is! To me and many others, it sounds like you can't stack them all on one target, to others you can.

I agree w/ THD's assessment. I don't like it, because IMO even if you can stack them all on one foe, Weird Words is pretty weak. I definitely think it should be errata'd to allow that. I would totally houserule it if I was running a game and a player wanted to take it. But as written? I don't think so...

[Starbuck_II]

StreamOfTheSky wrote:

"No response required?"

Hell yeah, one is! To me and many others, it sounds like you can't stack them all on one target, to others you can.

I agree w/ THD's assessment. I don't like it, because IMO even if you can stack them all on one foe, Weird Words is pretty weak. I definitely think it should be errata'd to allow that. I would totally houserule it if I was running a game and a player wanted to take it. But as written? I don't think so...

No, response translates to yes you can target same target multiple times.

You have to read between lines regarding the FAQ button.

[chaoseffect]

Charlie Bell wrote:

Mrs. Bell has an interesting combo with sound striker. She is a geisha/sound striker bard. Tea ceremony lets you provide the benefits of inspire courage without having to maintain it. So she loads up the heavies and archers with inspire courage, then uses sound striker as needed.

I don't think that's a particularly good use of performance rounds. It takes 10 minutes to buff everyone and then it only lasts for 10 more minutes, plus it costs 4 rounds of performance for each ally. A bard gets 4+cha rounds at first plus 2 rounds per level after, which is might as well be infinite as far as most days are concerned, but suddenly losing 16+ rounds is a huge hit, especially when combat tends to last less than a minute and the buff is only lasting for 10 minutes... which could be enough for you to explore, find nothing, and have the Bard completely empty (which seems likely as it's not a buff you can do the fly).

[belowyn]

Well, for doing buffs, http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/v/virtuoso-performance should give it the ability to keep Inspire Courage while doing Weird Words. Costs an extra use, and need the spell to work, but if Inspire Courage works with the ability, it might be worth it.

Question is, if it counts as a weapon, so one can add Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Good Hope etc, or not.

Theres been a lot of opinions from players and DMs, but not official word on that (only on the DR), and when playing PFS, a players opinion doesnt matter much. If it doesnt count as a weapon, so one cannot use Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot etc, does one still get the penalty of shooting into melee?

[Charlie Bell]

chaoseffect wrote:

Charlie Bell wrote:

Mrs. Bell has an interesting combo with sound striker. She is a geisha/sound striker bard. Tea ceremony lets you provide the benefits of inspire courage without having to maintain it. So she loads up the heavies and archers with inspire courage, then uses sound striker as needed.

I don't think that's a particularly good use of performance rounds. It takes 10 minutes to buff everyone and then it only lasts for 10 more minutes, plus it costs 4 rounds of performance for each ally. A bard gets 4+cha rounds at first plus 2 rounds per level after, which is might as well be infinite as far as most days are concerned, but suddenly losing 16+ rounds is a huge hit, especially when combat tends to last less than a minute and the buff is only lasting for 10 minutes... which could be enough for you to explore, find nothing, and have the Bard completely empty (which seems likely as it's not a buff you can do the fly).

It is when you have a 10-minute adventuring day.

[James Risner]

1) Even though each word can only affect 1 creature, couldn't you have all of them target a single creature? That is, make a maximum 10 words strike against a single target? Or do all of them have to affect separate targets (please don't be the case!)?

Ellington wrote:

Even though each word can only affect 1 creature, couldn't you have all of them target a single creature? That is, make a maximum 10 words strike against a single target? Or do all of them have to affect separate targets (please don't be the case!)

Staff Reply: No Reply Required

Sadly the OP didn't state his position in a way we know the meaning of "No Reply Required", as it could be either of these two positions:

1) You can't combine them because there is no verbiage like Magic Missile allowing you to combine them onto one creature.

2) You can combine them because there isn't anything saying you can't combine.

I've always ran this, at every table I've had a Bard with the archetype, where you can only hit one target once per use. I've got a new player looking to bring this build and I came hoping this had been clarified from the original release. Sadly this hasn't happened yet, and the "No Reply Required" means it probably never will be answered.

[James Risner]

Ellington wrote:

Even though each word can only affect 1 creature, couldn't you have all of them target a single creature? That is, make a maximum 10 words strike against a single target? Or do all of them have to affect separate targets (please don't be the case!)

Staff Reply: No Reply Required

Sadly the OP didn't state his position in a way we know the meaning of "No Reply Required", as it could be either of these two positions:

1) You can't combine them because there is no verbiage like Magic Missile allowing you to combine them onto one creature.

2) You can combine them because there isn't anything saying you can't combine.

I've always ran this, at every table I've had a Bard with the archetype, where you can only hit one target once per use. I've got a new player looking to bring this build and I came hoping this had been clarified from the original release. Sadly this hasn't happened yet, and the "No Reply Required" means it probably never will be answered.

Ferious Thune wrote:

6 to 10 sneak attacks in surprise round?

1 Sneak Attack per effect. It is in the FAQ.

[Pyrofiend]

So my group had decided that you can in fact allow the Weird Word to be directed all at one opponent, that's not what made it imbalanced.

What made it imbalanced was the bard in question's (Brd 14) ability to use their move action to begin inspire courage, then drop Heroic Finale to get a standard action and use the Weird Word again on that same enemy. Really bothered the DM that the BBEG was one shot by that.

[TGMaxMaxer]

Direct your GM and bard player to the "one performance type in a round" portion of the rules.

You get one or the other each round, not both.

Unless he uses Virtuoso spell to keep his inspire courage, or Shadowbard, spells that let you have multiple performances up simultaneously.

[TunFiskeMad]

He can use two different types of music in the same round if he so desires , just not at the same time(unless he has another effect that lets the bard do this).

A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time.

[TGMaxMaxer]

CRB First Paragraph of Bardic Performance Description wrote:

A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier. At each level after 1st a bard can use bardic performance for 2 additional rounds per day. Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level.

Now, he can stop each type carried over from a prior round and start a new one each round, but he can only -start one type- per round.

So, you could put up Inspire courage on round one, then drop it for Dirge of Doom on round 2, then drop that to fire off Weird words on round three, but you couldn't use your move/swift to put up inspire courage on round three even if you were high enough level, because of that line bolded right there. Exceptions to this are the Shadowbard spell, and Virtuoso Performance spell.

[TunFiskeMad]

TGMaxMaxer wrote:

CRB First Paragraph of Bardic Performance Description wrote:

A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier. At each level after 1st a bard can use bardic performance for 2 additional rounds per day. Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level.

Now, he can stop each type carried over from a prior round and start a new one each round, but he can only -start one type- per round.

So, you could put up Inspire courage on round one, then drop it for Dirge of Doom on round 2, then drop that to fire off Weird words on round three, but you couldn't use your move/swift to put up inspire courage on round three even if you were high enough level, because of that line bolded right there. Exceptions to this are the Shadowbard spell, and Virtuoso Performance spell.

I missed that sorry, or rather misunderstood it, so it would be inline with this:

CRB Second Paragraph of Bardic Performance Description wrote:

Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action. A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round. A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time.

But wouldn't that first paragraft make Virtuoso Performance not work, since it doen't allow you to use another type of bardic performance, just start and maintain a second performance?

Virtuose Performance wrote:

While this spell is active, you may start a second bardic performance while maintaining another. Starting the second performance costs 2 rounds of bardic performance instead of 1. Maintaining both performances costs a total of 3 rounds of bardic performance for each round they are maintained. When this spell ends, one of the performances ends immediately (your choice).

Virtuoso performance does not stack with any other method of maintaining simultaneous bardic performances.

I know this is nit picking about RAW and RAI but they seem to differ between types of bardic perfomances you can start in a round and the amount you can maintain.

[Wiggz]

Cheapy wrote:

It's not really that good of an ability, in hindsight.

It requires a touch attack, so there's one way to fail.

It requires a fort save, which is a more likely way to fail.

And they come in small spurts, so DR will eat this thing up.

Plus, you can't be Inspiring Courage.

I feel like that last point if most often over-looked. Now, there are plenty of situations when you might not be concerned about Inspiring Courage, but at least as often, you probably want your archers/barbarian/summoned creatures hitting more often than you want to be pew-pew-pewing your foes with highly-resistable highly-savable damage.

[MechE_]

James Risner wrote:

Staff Reply: No Reply Required

Sadly the OP didn't state his position in a way we know the meaning of "No Reply Required", as it could be either of these two positions:

1) You can't combine them because there is no verbiage like Magic Missile allowing you to combine them onto one creature.

2) You can combine them because there isn't anything saying you can't combine.

I've always ran this, at every table I've had a Bard with the archetype, where you can only hit one target once per use. I've got a new player looking to bring this build and I came hoping this had been clarified from the original release. Sadly this hasn't happened yet, and the "No Reply Required" means it probably never will be answered.

On the bright side, there is another thread on this same subject which currently has 53 FAQ requests and a much clearer (if slightly biased) question. I suspect (hope) the fact that they marked this thread as "no reply required" without yet responding to the linked thread to mean that they will be addressing this issue in an upcoming FAQ.

[allisonkaas]

Davor wrote:

The wording on the Diamond Spray spell had me confused, too. Glad to see that's getting changed to make a bit more sense with current abilities. Thanks, Sean.

What are "fled diamonds"?