Now that I have a heard copy of Ultimate Magic, I've been reading up on the Magus class. Overall, I like it. It has fun, flavorful abilities, the archetypes are pretty neat, and their spell list is solid (a good mix of offense, defense, and utility).
However, I'm a bit nervous about the class. At first glance, it seems to suffer from monk syndrome. Like the monk, it seems a bit MAD, requiring decent scores in Str, Dex, Con, and Int. It has a medium base attack bonus, and its "thing" is spell combat, which produces a -2 to attacks when used. Add into that the fact that they are essentially restricted to light armor for the early levels, and you have the same issues as a monk: need a lot of high scores, low AC, and you are a melee fighter.
What are your thoughts on the class? Again, I actually like the class, something I wasn't expecting.
Now that I have a heard copy of Ultimate Magic, I've been reading up on the Magus class. Overall, I like it. It has fun, flavorful abilities, the archetypes are pretty neat, and their spell list is solid (a good mix of offense, defense, and utility).
However, I'm a bit nervous about the class. At first glance, it seems to suffer from monk syndrome. Like the monk, it seems a bit MAD, requiring decent scores in Str, Dex, Con, and Int. It has a medium base attack bonus, and its "thing" is spell combat, which produces a -2 to attacks when used. Add into that the fact that they are essentially restricted to light armor for the early levels, and you have the same issues as a monk: need a lot of high scores, low AC, and you are a melee fighter.
What are your thoughts on the class? Again, I actually like the class, something I wasn't expecting.
I really want to play a Magus, a blade-bound archetype specifically. It's going to be my backup character to my fighter in the current Council of Thieves campaign I am playing in.
You can work around MAD if you're willing to make your melee capabilities around DEX and ignore strength. A strength build seems to be a more difficult road to go. The spell list seems decent enough. I guess the biggest thing is to not expect to be as good of a caster as a full caster or as much of a melee monster as a fighter or focused melee class. The strength of the magus is in versatility of the class.
Why would you say that a Strength-based Magus is harder to build than a Dexterity-based Magus? Seems like it would be easier since most melee attacks default to Strength without anything special required.
You can go to 13 str for power attack or not worry about it and take Dervish Dance or alternatively Piranha Strike if you go with a light weapon, plus you need DEX for armor class especially important at your lower levels. If you want to rely on STR for your melee attack and damage, you still need respectable DEX along with your INT and either a minimal CON bonus or Toughness feat.
Maybe it's me, I seem to have a easier time with DEX builds for the Magus.
In the early levels it is true that a dex based build will do well.
However as levels progress a strength based build will inch out in terms of everything else and it frees up two feats.
I think the main issue actually arises from Spellstrike using the crit threat but not the critmodiefer of your weapon. Than you'd see more falcatas, rapiers, longswords, and even dwarven waraxes.
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I've played a Magus in 10 sessions 11 sessions of PFS now, and I like it. I don't feel like I'm overpowered, as the 2H fighter in the group usually does a lot more damage than I do. When I crit though, watch out. It can get nasty.
I will note, that since they added Spell Recall, it basically doubled my first level spells, which is a pretty big thing to me. Being able to recall my shocking grasp when I miss on the Caster level check to overcome SR is a nice thing.
My dm has posted elsewhere that while yeah, it can be powerful at times, I have often flubbed the concentration check to cast defensively and lost my spell, and that just sucks.
I went with a Dex build, it really fit my character concept, and using dex for atk & dmg is very nice.
The fact that Spellstrike adds the extra attack with Spell Combat is really nice. Several times I've cast my spell, gotten my free attack and missed, only to use my regular attack and hit getting the spell off.
I've played a Magus in 10 sessions 11 sessions of PFS now, and I like it. I don't feel like I'm overpowered, as the 2H fighter in the group usually does a lot more damage than I do. When I crit though, watch out. It can get nasty.
I will note, that since they added Spell Recall, it basically doubled my first level spells, which is a pretty big thing to me. Being able to recall my shocking grasp when I miss on the Caster level check to overcome SR is a nice thing.
My dm has posted elsewhere that while yeah, it can be powerful at times, I have often flubbed the concentration check to cast defensively and lost my spell, and that just sucks.
I went with a Dex build, it really fit my character concept, and using dex for atk & dmg is very nice.
The fact that Spellstrike adds the extra attack with Spell Combat is really nice. Several times I've cast my spell, gotten my free attack and missed, only to use my regular attack and hit getting the spell off.
Would you mind posting your stat array and feat choice for your PFS character?
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I think the main issue actually arises from Spellstrike using the crit threat but not the critmodiefer of your weapon. Than you'd see more falcatas, rapiers, longswords, and even dwarven waraxes.
Done some number crunching, even if crit mod were to be included on average the 18-20/x2 and 19-20/x3(falcata) weapons come out on top still. but that said a heavy pick critting with a shocking grasp would dish out 24d6 compared to a rapier's 12d6
for anyone who is actually interested the worst to best list based on averages would end up
x2
x3
19-20/x2 = x4
18-20/x2 = 19-20/x3
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Dex base builds work pre DR. After you get to the level where every thing hase DR. It dose not work as well. Magus is MAD and in a bad kind of way. In order to hit you need Str or Dex. In order for your spells to work you need Int. You can't keap both where they keap your to hit and spell DC high. You have to pick combat or casting to focus in. So if your focusing in casting you wold be a wizard or a sorcerer. Your focusing in combat. This will leave your save DC to low. So after level 8 or so your spell DC will not be high enough to count. Now it's keaping the rigth buffing, touch, And utility spells.
Considering his ability to increase the enhancement modifier of his weapon, DR should not be that much of a problem, unless it's damage typed or untyped.
Then you include spells like versatile weapon or the black blades ability o make his weapon damage into energy damage or force damage and DR ceases to bea concern entirely.
I'm a fan of dex based builds myself. The only problem I see for a Magus going dex based is that it burns feats, feats that better be used elsewhere, such as Extra Arcana.
Trying to deal with the MAD issue will be of primary concern whenever I get around to playing a magus.
Haven't seen the finished product yet... but I'm kind of looking forward to checking these Magus' out...
For those who HAVE looked them over, Can anyone answer me a couple qeustions?
1) What exactly is MAD stand for... I don't recognize that one.. ;)
2) more importantly... how do these guys compare to the awesomeness of Bladesingers of old?? (by old I mean 2E, never saw what they did in 3E with them...)
Theyr'e the first thing I thought of when i heard about this kit...
Haven't seen the finished product yet... but I'm kind of looking forward to checking these Magus' out...
For those who HAVE looked them over, Can anyone answer me a couple qeustions?
1) What exactly is MAD stand for... I don't recognize that one.. ;)
2) more importantly... how do these guys compare to the awesomeness of Bladesingers of old?? (by old I mean 2E, never saw what they did in 3E with them...)
Theyr'e the first thing I thought of when i heard about this kit...
I can answer the first. MAD stands for Multiple Ability Dependence. Basically, a class is MAD if it requires a lot of high stats in order to do its business. A wizard, for example, only really needs intelligence to be awesome; other high stats are good to have, but not essential. The monk, on the other hand, needs a high Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, and Wisdom.
AHHH Thanks for the definition... From the context i could tell what we were refereing too... but wasn't sure what the acronym was for...
Always loved the bladesingers... they were SUPPOSED to be the 'Jedi' of the Elven Spellfighters.. The stats didn't always match up that way, and the 2E multiclass rules REALLy sucked.. so we house ruled them a lot...
But the Spell-sword characters have always been my favorite.
I sorta had to ban them, IIRC. They had the best rules for any of the multiclass dudes, and until the crew got to about 10th level, those guys were pretty much on top. The casting spells one handed thing was pretty big in a game where only they could do it- other fighter/mages had to drop their weapon or draw it to switch modes.
Top it off that only elves could do it, and it was a bit too much.
Basically, they marginalized a fighter 100%.
Yep... That's why I liked them ^_^
I'm not a powergamer by any stretch, but the whole 'epitome of the Elven race' and 'defender of the Elven homelands' REALLY appealed to me... and the fact that they took 30+ years to train and perfect themselves was icing on the cake...
Also helped that Elves were my favorite race... the immortal and watching time pass thing... (also a highlander fan ;) )
Still.. Hitpoints were the great balancing... those multiclass rules of each class gets 1/2 what they roll for hp... UGGG...
I had a bladesinger around lvl 6/5 or something with only hp...
One of the few actual legitimate casualites I've had in my gaming histroy...
Would you mind posting your stat array and feat choice for your PFS character?I've played a Magus in 10 sessions 11 sessions of PFS now, and I like it. I don't feel like I'm overpowered, as the 2H fighter in the group usually does a lot more damage than I do. When I crit though, watch out. It can get nasty.
I will note, that since they added Spell Recall, it basically doubled my first level spells, which is a pretty big thing to me. Being able to recall my shocking grasp when I miss on the Caster level check to overcome SR is a nice thing.
My dm has posted elsewhere that while yeah, it can be powerful at times, I have often flubbed the concentration check to cast defensively and lost my spell, and that just sucks.
I went with a Dex build, it really fit my character concept, and using dex for atk & dmg is very nice.
The fact that Spellstrike adds the extra attack with Spell Combat is really nice. Several times I've cast my spell, gotten my free attack and missed, only to use my regular attack and hit getting the spell off.
I'd also be interested in seeing your character choices; I'm still trying to wrap my head around the class and would appreciate seeing one that's been used in actual play, rather than theorycraft.
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I'd also be interested in seeing your character choices; I'm still trying to wrap my head around the class and would appreciate seeing one that's been used in actual play, rather than theorycraft.I've played a Magus in 10 sessions 11 sessions of PFS now, and I like it. I don't feel like I'm overpowered, as the 2H fighter in the group usually does a lot more damage than I do. When I crit though, watch out. It can get nasty.Would you mind posting your stat array and feat choice for your PFS character?
Warenza al-Ramuud
Male Human Magus 4STR 12
DEX 16
CON 13
INT 18 (+2 racial, +1 level)
WIS 8
CHA 10
FEATS:
Weapon Finesse, Combat Casting, Dervish Dance
TRAITS:
Flame of the Dawnflower (+2 fire dmg when confirm crit)
Dervish (+1 dodge vs AoO from movement)
EQUIPMENT
MW Cold Iron Scimitar
Silver Scimitar
+1 Mithral Chain Shirt
Chakram x3
Muleback Cords
Cloak of Resist +1
Pearl of Power (bought before learned of Spell Recall... *sigh*)
Wayfinder
Planning on saving up for an adamantine scimitar and a mithral scimitar to replace the silver one to cover the metal types of DR.
My skills are spread out over the knowledges and spellcraft with a few random ones that I started with.
I know the WIS hurts, but I wanted to play him as impulsive and one who rushes into things headlong without thinking it through first. He's also a little naive.
I'd also be interested in seeing your character choices; I'm still trying to wrap my head around the class and would appreciate seeing one that's been used in actual play, rather than theorycraft.I've played a Magus in 10 sessions 11 sessions of PFS now, and I like it. I don't feel like I'm overpowered, as the 2H fighter in the group usually does a lot more damage than I do. When I crit though, watch out. It can get nasty.Would you mind posting your stat array and feat choice for your PFS character?Warenza al-Ramuud
Male Human Magus 4
STR 12
DEX 16
CON 13
INT 18 (+2 racial, +1 level)
WIS 8
CHA 10FEATS:
Weapon Finesse, Combat Casting, Dervish DanceTRAITS:
Flame of the Dawnflower (+2 fire dmg when confirm crit)
Dervish (+1 dodge vs AoO from movement)EQUIPMENT
MW Cold Iron Scimitar
Silver Scimitar
+1 Mithral Chain Shirt
Chakram x3
Muleback Cords
Cloak of Resist +1
Pearl of Power (bought before learned of Spell Recall... *sigh*)
WayfinderPlanning on saving up for an adamantine scimitar and a mithral scimitar to replace the silver one to cover the metal types of DR.
My skills are spread out over the knowledges and spellcraft with a few random ones that I started with.
I know the WIS hurts, but I wanted to play him as impulsive and one who rushes into things headlong without thinking it through first. He's also a little naive.
Looking at your build, I just realized that pathfinder eliminated the base attack bonus requirement for Weapon Finesse; the last time I took that feat was in a 3.5 game. Neat!
Also, I think Pearls of Power are a good investment for a magus, even with spell recall; the more times you can recast your magic, the better. And the pearls will give you the option of spending points from your arcane pool on something else.
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Looking at your build, I just realized that pathfinder eliminated the base attack bonus requirement for Weapon Finesse; the last time I took that feat was in a 3.5 game. Neat!
Also, I think Pearls of Power are a good investment for a magus, even with spell recall; the more times you can recast your magic, the better. And the pearls will give you the option of spending points from your arcane pool on something else.
Yeah, they made many rogues happy the day they took away the +1 BAB prereq. :)
Yeah, I'm sure I'll use it, but I have to admit, I'd probably use the Spell Recall before I use the pearl, at least in combat. I have better uses for my standard actions than recalling a spell, when I can do it six times a day as a swift action instead.
Looking closer at the class, I can see one important difference between it and the monk: the magus's class abilities actually sync, while the monk has a bunch of random abilities that look nice on paper, but don't have any focus.
Don't Muleback Cords and the Cloak of Resistance use the same slot?
I'd also be interested in seeing your character choices; I'm still trying to wrap my head around the class and would appreciate seeing one that's been used in actual play, rather than theorycraft.I've played a Magus in 10 sessions 11 sessions of PFS now, and I like it. I don't feel like I'm overpowered, as the 2H fighter in the group usually does a lot more damage than I do. When I crit though, watch out. It can get nasty.Would you mind posting your stat array and feat choice for your PFS character?Warenza al-Ramuud
Male Human Magus 4
STR 12
DEX 16
CON 13
INT 18 (+2 racial, +1 level)
WIS 8
CHA 10FEATS:
Weapon Finesse, Combat Casting, Dervish DanceTRAITS:
Flame of the Dawnflower (+2 fire dmg when confirm crit)
Dervish (+1 dodge vs AoO from movement)EQUIPMENT
MW Cold Iron Scimitar
Silver Scimitar
+1 Mithral Chain Shirt
Chakram x3
Muleback Cords
Cloak of Resist +1
Pearl of Power (bought before learned of Spell Recall... *sigh*)
WayfinderPlanning on saving up for an adamantine scimitar and a mithral scimitar to replace the silver one to cover the metal types of DR.
My skills are spread out over the knowledges and spellcraft with a few random ones that I started with.
I know the WIS hurts, but I wanted to play him as impulsive and one who rushes into things headlong without thinking it through first. He's also a little naive.
Thanks for posting this. I'm curious: Do you find that you burn through your arcane pool over the course of a day? Or do you think you could've gotten by with a 15 or 16 Intelligence?
Here is my PbP magus. Only been in one fight sofar, but he is currently neck deep in Haunting of Harrowstone. He's been fun to play, though I could have set him up a little better. If I'd known what an aldori dueling sword was when I created him he wouldn't have a rapier...
This is my gush about the magus. I've put it in spoiler text because I went on a little long O.o
here's a link to his character sheet
He's got some campaign specific gear so his AC should be about 2 lower.
What you need to remember is that while a magus doesn't get the same number of spells that a straight caster does, he has all the same power with his even caster level and can simply do more things in a round than any other class besides a summoner. A magus should mainly specialize in touch spells, as he can deliver them through his weapon and crit massively with them. Also, as per the touch spell rules, a magus can hold the charge of his touch spells indefinitely, meaning he can walk around in a dangerous area while holding a Shocking Touch and blow both it and a spell using Spell Combat on his first full attack of a round. If you make your weapon spell storing this means you can hit an enemy with 3 touch spells and all of your melee attacks on your first full attack. You do have to take a -2 penalty on the rolls, and you do have to make a concentration check for one of the spells, but overall the damage you put out from overwhelming your enemy with spells is worth it.
The second reason the magus is awesome is because of the magus only spell force hook charge. This 3rd level spell is pounce with extra force damage, and if you add toppling to it you have a fairly good chance of being able to full attack pounce a prone enemy.
Finally, the magus has use of its spell recall ability. Unlike a wizard, who has to prepare every spell in advance, or a sorcerer, who can only learn a limited number of spells, a magus can learn every spell on his class list like a wizard and then cast them spontaneously like a sorcerer. Certainly the requirement that he spend points from his spell pool equal to the level of the spell cast is a detriment, but the versatility of this type of spellcasting is unmatched, making the magus your go to magical toolbox.
Someone mentioned having to choose between saves and melee combat when using a magus. With a magus all of your most used spells should be those with an attack roll, and most of those don't have saves. Leave save or suck spells and area reflex save blasts to the sorcerer and wizard, you are the boss killer, minions can be taken care of by your other party members. Keep things like fireball on your spell list in case you run into a swarm or something, but don't bother with it for damage as your touch spells are much more potent.
Sorry for the paragraphs, but the magus is definitely my favorite class in Pathfinder. Rather than going the same way others have and failing, paizo made a class that's not a fighter or a wizard but its own unique entity with its own party role. It has so many cool, cohesive abilities that make playing it very interesting and fun.
Don't Muleback Cords and the Cloak of Resistance use the same slot?
Gah! I have to fix 10+ character sheets now. :(
So I *think* the magus is ok -- but it feels like a close call at our table. Just used force punch with spell strike last night -- the 20d4 on top of 2d8+26 damage was very eye opening. The ability to recall spells used has been of great value and worry to me, however it certainly helps with having what spell I want when I want it. The ability to boost my weapon to +5 and on the next round get an extra +6 to hit with arcane accuracy has certainly caused my melee damage to be very nice as well.
While at any given point I'm not going to outshine the wizard at spell casting, or the fighter at swinging steel, I do come rather close on a frequent basis and have constantly been the one that has something to do when others are searching for new tactics when an enemy presents a new problem -- this has caused my character's performance to be strong and very stable for the several months I've been playing him now.
Currently I'm the only one at our table to play a magus though, so I'm not certain if its me playing the class that makes it seem strong or if it is really that the class simply is that strong -- but I'm hoping others will try the class in the next AP and we'll get a more balanced idea.
My experience is with the playtest magus only.
He did fine. Very good when the player learned to balance the use of self buffs, offensive spell in melee or blasting (rare the latter).
It's an awesome class and has utilities too. Is perhaps the best perto of the book, until now (I admit I dind't tried every combination and archetype but I will try soon an hexcrafter ina a PbP).
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I feel Paizo dd a good job wth the Magus arcana. It made the class interestng to me. I am very skeptical on how reliable their chances to ht are. Ths leads me to feel that the Duskblade from 3.5 is more the go to class for this sort of character. That beng said, I suspect I will evenutually give it a try. Not soon though, I am not convinced Dex is the right way to go and I think the class is fragile otherise without free xp getting him heavy armor levels. I disdain free xp save starting at level 2 or the way pfsop does it.
I feel Paizo dd a good job wth the Magus arcana. It made the class interestng to me. I am very skeptical on how reliable their chances to ht are. Ths leads me to feel that the Duskblade from 3.5 is more the go to class for this sort of character. That beng said, I suspect I will evenutually give it a try. Not soon though, I am not convinced Dex is the right way to go and I think the class is fragile otherise without free xp getting him heavy armor levels. I disdain free xp save starting at level 2 or the way pfsop does it.
I strongly suggest to try out buffing spells. I used to think the class was too fragile until I've seen a good use of buffs. expecially used timely with class features.
Additionally, there are arcanas or spell able to increase the hit chance. The class needs no more.
(again, at least this is valid for the playtest version)
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The vanilla Magus, IMHO, has some issues...
He's based around melee combat, but lacks a full BAB, decent AC, or a decent sized Hit Die. His ability to 'empower' his weapon via his arcane pool helps to make up the BAB shortcomings at low levels, but as soon as everyone else starts to get magic weapons, he starts to fall behind the curve. By the highest levels, when every melee character has a +5 weapon (with sugar on top...) he's back to being 5 behind the full BAB characters in his chances to hit. His lack of full BAB also means it takes longer to qualify for the combat Feats he really wants (like the Critical Feats), and doesn't give him as many extra attacks.
His AC is low... He's not a shield-using class, so has to fall back on the Shield spell for that boost - which, again, starts to fall behind when magic armour and shields start to make an appearance in the game. He lacks the Fighter's ability to boost the maximum Dexterity to AC allowed by armour, so even when he qualifies to use medium and heavy armours he's starting to drop behind (especially if he's a Dex-based build to start with).
The amount of Arcane Pool points he gets is really low. Assuming a 'standard' (whatever that means) day's adventuring is 4 to 6 encounters, and that the Magus will want / need to empower his melee weapon in all of them, he needs at least 6 pool points set aside to do that. Assuming a starting Intelligence of 16 (a 15pt buy character with a need for physical stats as well) he'll be level 6 before he even has that many of the things... unless he starts blowing Feats to get a few more (and he needs both combat and casting releated Feats, so he doesn't have many to spare). Then... lots of his other class features steal points from his pool as well...
Most of his arcana are pretty poor - many are the horrid 'once per day' type of thing, or 'boosts for a single turn' type of thing. This, coupled with the sheer amount of spells he needs to cast to survive, and make any contribution to, combat means that he's the most nova-bait class around: if an adventuring day was a single encounter then sure, he'd rock... but wouldn't everyone?
Spellstrike is vastly overrated - you basically trade (difference between opponent's full AC and touch AC) chance to hit for another dose of your melee weapon's damage, and an increased chance of a critical with the spell - it's the critical chance which is worth it, if anything, but don't be fooled into thinking your getting any more attacks that you'd get casting a melee touch spell with spell combat anyway... you're just making it harder to actually hit with the thing...
Luckily the Magus archetypes save the guy...
The Bladebound archetype, whilst very flavourful, is probably the poorest option mechanics-wise (he'd actually do better just taking Craft Magic Arms and Armour and keeping his own weapon up to snuff).
The other three arechetypes are great (and all of the Magus archetypes, including Bladebound, can be taken by the same character thanks to the way they're designed).
Hexcrafter replaces the arcane pool draining Spell Recall feature with a Witch class Hex and allows you to pick Hexes instead of arcana from there on out (although you can still pick arcana if you so wish). Many Hexes can be used all day, everyday, which is something the Magus desperately needs, and this archetype even qualfies the guy for Major and Grand Hexes eventually. Plus, with the right Hexes, you may actually be of some use to your friends... ;)
Spellblade replaces the not-as-good-as-you-think-at-first-glance Spellstrike with the ability to trade spells to create an off-handed magical weapon... which lasts all fight, and does force-based damage, but without restricting the Magus's ability to cast spells or deliver touch spells. The Athame arcana are, generally, superior to many of the vanilla arcana too.
The Staff Magus is great - you basically trade +5 worth of potential armour bonus (the difference between a chain shirt and full plate) for a potential +8 worth of shield bonus... and your Dexterity bonus to AC, if you have one, is less limited too (not to mention your overall mobility). Not only that, but now a single magic item (a magic staff) acts as a staff, a weapon, and a shield, all together - so it's a nice economical option as you level.
In general, I'd suggest either the 'typical' scimitar-wielding 'critical-based' Magus - who's all about maximising the chance of those Spellstrike-fuelled shots getting a critical - and go Bladebound + Hexcrafter Magus ('cos, at the end of the day, Bladebound is a really fun concept!); or go with a Hexcrafter + Spellblade + Staff Magus.
Alternatively, if the idea of the Magus class appeals, I'd suggest taking a look at the Arcane Duelist archetype for the Bard in the APG - it basically does a similar thing... but better (for example, you can actually help your friends out with your abilities, use a shield in combat, and get a load more Skill points... and a better Skill selection... all whilst still boosting weapons and having a personal magical weapon as well).
All, absolutly, IMHO, natch! ;)
Dealing an average of 85 points of damage on a critical hit isn't that impressive for a 10th level character.
Cleared that by quite a bit, but I rolled very well too. Also 85 isn't unimpressive either:
Fighter level 10
2 weapon spec
2 weapon training
3 magic weapon
12 strength (two handed weapon)
9 power attack
= 2d6+28 normal = 4d6+56 (great sword) or 3d12+84 (great axe).
So it certainly isn't a poor hit either -- especially using 1 hand -- and that spell was left over from the last round, which means I got off the black tentacles on the bearded devils that round as well. Didn't get to finish the full attack since I didn't have any targets in range to hit (force punch pushed the erynies away).
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Cleared that by quite a bit, but I rolled very well too. Also 85 isn't unimpressive either:
Fighter level 10
2 weapon spec
2 weapon training
3 magic weapon
12 strength (two handed weapon)
9 power attack
= 2d6+28 normal = 4d6+56 (great sword) or 3d12+84 (great axe).So it certainly isn't a poor hit either -- especially using 1 hand -- and that spell was left over from the last round, which means I got off the black tentacles on the bearded devils that round as well. Didn't get to finish the full attack since I didn't have any targets in range to hit (force punch pushed the erynies away).
I'm not saying that 85 is bad. But it was a lucky hit. A fighter would deal the damage with any confirmed critical, while a magus has to get a critical while using a high damage spell. A magus should do fine in the DPR department but in my opinion it's better to judge a character on his average contribution instead of lucky spikes.
I'm not saying that 85 is bad. But it was a lucky hit. A fighter would deal the damage with any confirmed critical, while a magus has to get a critical while using a high damage spell. A magus should do fine in the DPR department but in my opinion it's better to judge a character on his average contribution instead of lucky spikes.
Okay I understand your comment more in that light then -- it just seemed to me you were suggesting that the 85 was at best 'meh' instead of good.
I think part of the problem is my magus seems to be constantly getting those lucky spikes -- this could be partially tactics though, I've had good luck choosing when to use key abilities and then had them hit in very effective manners too.
Well like a monk you want to design well and play smart.
Done well you'll be fine, done without either of the above and you're less than worthless.
About on par for any of the 'light infantry' types. You need a higher degree of game mastery/experience rather than play out of the box. This is not to say that other classes can't be played to excess in either, just that the initial learning curve is harder here.
-James
This is well said -- Generally I wouldn't give anything in ultimate magic or the advanced player's guide to someone new or without a good level of system mastery.
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+1 to that - the Magus looks cool, and reads cool, but is very easy to play badly.
Thinking on the Dex-based Vs Str-based thing, I'm actually leaning towards Str-based in order to get the most out of those new polymorph spells the Magus has on his list (which he didn't during the playtest). Polymorphing for Dex means reduced size, damage, and reach. Polymorphing for Str means increased size, damage, and reach. I'll take the extra damage and reach for my melee character, please! :)
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+1 to that - the Magus looks cool, and reads cool, but is very easy to play badly.
Thinking on the Dex-based Vs Str-based thing, I'm actually leaning towards Str-based in order to get the most out of those new polymorph spells the Magus has on his list (which he didn't during the playtest). Polymorphing for Dex means reduced size, damage, and reach. Polymorphing for Str means increased size, damage, and reach. I'll take the extra damage and reach for my melee character, please! :)
Maybe the magus plays better for people who aren't fixated on wielding quarterstaffs?
With Dervish Dance, reduced size doesn't change the average damage while increasing AC and attack bonus. Unless you are already small, you don't lose reach either.
+1 to that - the Magus looks cool, and reads cool, but is very easy to play badly.
Thinking on the Dex-based Vs Str-based thing, I'm actually leaning towards Str-based in order to get the most out of those new polymorph spells the Magus has on his list (which he didn't during the playtest). Polymorphing for Dex means reduced size, damage, and reach. Polymorphing for Str means increased size, damage, and reach. I'll take the extra damage and reach for my melee character, please! :)
Maybe the magus plays better for people who aren't fixated on wielding quarterstaffs?
With Dervish Dance, reduced size doesn't change the average damage while increasing AC and attack bonus. Unless you are already small, you don't lose reach either.
I haven't seen a huge different between a strength build and a dex build myself in over all outcome -- simply method of getting there.
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Maybe the magus plays better for people who aren't fixated on wielding quarterstaffs?
'Fixated' - ooh, snap!
Seriously, opinions were asked, I happened to have time to answer - if that's 'fixated' then... well, I don't know... 'sorry' for bothering I guess... :/
With Dervish Dance, reduced size doesn't change the average damage while increasing AC and attack bonus. Unless you are already small, you don't lose reach either.
Reduced weapon size = reduced weapon damage.
My assumption was that the 'str or dex' argument was for after Intelligence.
My assumption was that the 'str or dex' argument was for after Intelligence.I kinda got the impression from the focus on doing hp damage in melee, and another thread where someone suggested starting with a 14 int and using a circlet to get it up for casting higher-level spells, that the discussion was on str or dex as a primary stat here.
As secondary stats after Int, I'd recommend Str and Con. Dex has an AC advantage at lower levels, but not only does that fade by mid level, but you'll start wanting to use magic for defense at later levels anyway.
Here's how I'd do a magus for PFS play (levels 1-12 for the most part):
STR 10
INT 18 (16+2 racial)
WIS 07
DEX 19 (17+2 racial)
CON 12 (14-2 racial)
CHA 07With level bumps into DEX, using Dervish Dance & Weapon Finesse.
Arcana I happen to like would be the wand wielder arcanas, at low levels a DC 15 color spray from a wand works very well.. especially in a campaign that lets you trade in 'favors' (i.e. TPA) for 750gp items (namely level 1 wands).
-James
Why take a hit on Will save with that Wisdom score? I understand Cha as the de facto dump stat for Magus but I was curious as to why you would have such a low Wisdom score? Just curious.