| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
What are some great combinations for words of power? Please share your thoughts here. Let's build a LONG list!
I'll start:
A selected lengthy corrosive bolt with Intensified Spell metamagic feat is a 2nd-level spell that takes up a 3rd level slot. It has no save and no spell resistance, merely a ranged touch attack to hit.
It does 10d4 acid damage to the target each round for 4 rounds. Not too shabby for a 3rd-level spell slot. For a 6th-level slot it targets 1 creature/level within medium range. :D
I haven't had a chance to look at Words of Power yet, but I'm highly interested in what sorts of combinations can be cooked up. As such, I will be paying close attention to this thread, and when i get that chance to absorb the new rules, I'll contribute.
I am curious, though. Overall, how would you rate the new system in terms of flexibility and power? Would it make a valid substitution for the regular magic system?
Overall, how would you rate the new system in terms of flexibility and power? Would it make a valid substitution for the regular magic system?
There are a LOT of possible combinations, so there is a LOT of flexibility. Is there MORE flexibility than the standard spellcasting system? No, not really. You do have more flexibility in that you can piece together only what you need in a spell when you need it, but you can just plain do more with regular spellcasting (there's just that many base spells out there).
In terms of power, I noticed getting higher damage becomes a little bit easier with Words of Power, but spell durations overall are much shorter. It seems to favor blasters over buffers as a result.
I like the that Bolt, but you need to hit level 10 to get the full benefit of intensifying it.
Summons are great with WoP:
At 1st you get Selected Boosted Servitor I to use a standard action to summon 1d4+1 creatures from the 1st level list.
With Superior Summoning, in a 4th level slot you can use Careful Selected Boosted Servitor III Boosted Fade to use a standard action that doesn't provoke an AoO to summon 1d4+2 invisible (attack without losing invisibility) creatures from the 3rd level list. To keep the metaword price down, drop "careful" and cast defensively.
I like the that Bolt, but you need to hit level 10 to get the full benefit of intensifying it.
Summons are great with WoP:
At 1st you get Selected Boosted Servitor I to use a standard action to summon 1d4+1 creatures from the 1st level list.
With Superior Summoning, in a 4th level slot you can use Careful Selected Boosted Servitor III Boosted Fade to use a standard action that doesn't provoke an AoO to summon 1d4+2 invisible (attack without losing invisibility) creatures from the 3rd level list. To keep the metaword price down, drop "careful" and cast defensively.
That's nice, but fade only lasts for 1 round. Still great for surrounding and attacking your enemies before they even realize there are reinforcements.
Adding mah dot for future reference.
That's nice, but fade only lasts for 1 round. Still great for surrounding and attacking your enemies before they even realize there are reinforcements.I like the that Bolt, but you need to hit level 10 to get the full benefit of intensifying it.
Summons are great with WoP:
At 1st you get Selected Boosted Servitor I to use a standard action to summon 1d4+1 creatures from the 1st level list.
With Superior Summoning, in a 4th level slot you can use Careful Selected Boosted Servitor III Boosted Fade to use a standard action that doesn't provoke an AoO to summon 1d4+2 invisible (attack without losing invisibility) creatures from the 3rd level list. To keep the metaword price down, drop "careful" and cast defensively.
Yup. Three to six invisible Claw/Claw/Bites (Leopard) makes me very happy for a 4th level spell, especially when you add the potential AoOs. Other possible additives instead of Boosted Fade are...
Force Shield: Summoned critters +4AC
Fortify: Summoned critters +7HP(tmp)/+1 Saves
Radiance: Summoned critters glow
I really, really like WoP for summons because you get summoning as a standard action PLUS additional critters for the cost of a metaword.
So a Careful Selected Boosted Servitor III Boosted Fade is actually not a legal combination.
Why not?
EDIT: Nevermind. Servitor doesn't have a boost effect. It's referring to Selected target's boost effect.
That is seriously misleading. No doubt others will stumble into that mistake as well.
That sucks. Who the heck would want to summon a monster 6 levels below standard summon monster, even if there are 1d4+1 of them? Even augmented, you MIGHT have something that sorta works kinda well, rather than something truly on par with real spells.
Combine these with an effect word with an instantaneous duration and you have permanent, undispellable changes to the character.
Or, you know, we can use some God-given sense and realize that instantaneous is effectively permanent, and thus is longer in duration than rounds, minutes, hours, or days.
^
|
|
|
|
^
Only funny because I'M the one saying it.
Bah! Humbug! *sheesh*
I still like the speed, but I'm a LOT less impressed with Summon Servitor 'X'.
The Words of Power allows for instantaneous duration transformation effects:
Multiple Effect Words and Duration: If a wordspell has more than one effect word, the shortest of all the effect words’ durations is used for all of the effect words.For Reference, see
Now, it may be argued that bonuses will...School transmutation; Level druid 5
Casting Time 24 hours
Components V, S, M (herbs and oils worth 2,000 gp), DF
Range touch
Target animal or tree touched
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes
You awaken a tree or animal to human-like sentience. To succeed, you must make a Will save (DC 10 + the animal's current HD, or the HD the tree will have once awakened). The awakened animal or tree is friendly toward you. You have no special empathy or connection with a creature you awaken, although it serves you in specific tasks or endeavors if you communicate your desires to it. If you cast awaken again, any previously awakened creatures remain friendly to you, but they no longer undertake tasks for you unless it is in their best interests.
An awakened tree has characteristics as if it were an animated object, except that it gains the plant type and its Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores are each 3d6. An awakened plant gains the ability to move its limbs, roots, vines, creepers, and so forth, and it has senses similar to a human's.
An awakened animal gets 3d6 Intelligence, +1d3 Charisma, and +2 HD. Its type becomes magical beast (augmented animal). An awakened animal can't serve as an animal companion, familiar, or special mount.
An awakened tree or animal can speak one language that you know, plus one additional language that you know per point of Intelligence bonus (if any). This spell does not function on an animal or plant with an Intelligence greater than 2.
Instantaneous is not duration: permanent. Doubtful you'll get away with that one with any but incredibly gullible DMs or DMs that like to allow such options.
Why not go with the spell Baleful Polymorph rather than Awaken? The duration says permanent.
Instantaneous is more of a way to say "no duration". The effect happens and is over. That most certainly would not work for energy immunity.
And you can also argue that if "instantaneous" equals "permanent", then it is not the shortest duration for a given spell is it? So you would lose by the rules either way.
The words of power say "shortest duration". "Permanent" is not the shortest duration whether the duration says "permanent" like Baleful Polymorph or you interpret duration: instantaneous to mean "permanent". Either way, you're out of luck. Neither duration or interpreation of duration would be the shortest duration.
Only funny because I'M the one saying it.
hah! That did actually crack me up ;)
I would say pretty easily. Like maybe using a different baseline spell more in line with a similar effect rather than searching for the one instantaneous spell with a unique effect that supports an assertion you know full well is not in line with the intent?
I ask again why are you using Awaken as support for your particular interpretation of the spell?
Are there not many other spells with instantaneous duration that show a completely different interpretation? Yes, there are. But you go and find a single spell, a spell with an extremely unique effect, that you somehow think is the baseline spell for how to adjudicate an instantaneous duration? Really?
If you can get a DM to fall for your line of thinking, more power to you. I know finding one spell that breaks the system to support your assertion is not going to fly in about 99% of campaigns out there. I know with absolutely certain the designer of the Words of Power system was not thinking "Yeah, Awaken is the spell I would use as an example of shortest duration. So players can get permanent energy immunity and fly. That's exactly what I'm thinking."
Sorry, you're trying to use the one different spell to justify your interpretation. That's nothing more than rules lawyering at its worst. There are countless other examples of instantaneous duration that don't in any way suggest what you are suggesting be the interpretation for words of power.
I would say you know very well that it would function differently than Awaken. By the text of the spell itself, which is worded far differently than Awaken. Two, by the fact that Awaken is different from every other instantaneous duration spell, and is thus not what would be considered a baseline spell. So why are you attempting to use it as such?
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
No offense Maddigan, but you're incorrect on this one.
This was an issue in 3.x with Psionic Lion's Charge As written the duration was instantaneous, when it should have been one round. The result was a power, RAW, you manifest once and then can charge all the time (with bonuses to damage if you augmented it)
per the CRB
Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might
be long-lasting.
(emphasis mine)
Animate dead is another example of an instantaneous. Are you saying they're only animated for a microsecond then collapse?
Other instantaneous spells which have effects that outlast their magic
bless water (bonus for also being transmutation)
clone
create undead
diminish plants (also transmutation)
fabricate
Just to name a few.
Well, that just illustrates a new point for errata :)
Assuming that instantaneous is a duration which is separate from non-instantaneous durations, Wrack is the great low-level combining word for damage spells:
3rd level
(Line/Cone/Burst) (Burning Flash or Shock Arc) Wrack = caster level d4 (max 5d4) (Fire or Electricity) damage + Sickened 1 round/level. Reflex save for 1/2 damage and avoid sickened condition.
4th level
(Line/Cone/Burst) (Fire Blast or Lightning Blast) Wrack = caster level d6 (max 10d6)(Fire or Electricity) damage + Sickened 1 round. Reflex save for 1/2 damage and avoid sickened condition.
*also*
Selected Paralyze Humanoid Wrack = Paralyze+Sicken 1 round/level. Will negates. Target gets new save attempt each round (at -2 for sickened condition).
I don't mind that sentence much so long as they clarify that the proper format for duration is (instantaneous/non-instantaneous), (round-minute-hour-day/non-round-minute-hour-day). Thus, any spell can have only instantaneous effects, only non-instantaneous effects or both instantaneous and non-instantaneous effects with duration separated by a comma. In other words, these are all valid durations:
1) Instantaneous
2) 1 round/level
3) Instantaneous, 1 round/level
So any time a non-instantaneous duration is combined with an instantaneous one they simply get the comma separation.
Awaken VS Baleful Polymorph, Instantaneous VS Permanent:
Instantaneous spells do their work and fade away, leaving the effect. (Example : Flesh to Stone) Once effect takes place, you cannot remove it with Dispel Magic, because there's no ongoing magical effect.
When permanent spells do their work the magical effect stays in presence, maintaining the effect. Therefore, they're still susceptible to being countered / removed by Dispel Magic, as well as detected by Detect Magic and so on.
I suppose this goes further and reduces the duration of all non-instantaneous effects to the lowest duration effect. I don't see that as particularly necessary. This system has enough limitations, as is.
Agreed for the most part, though I understand (for example) why they wouldn't want you to be able to add a Boosted Fade to something with a longer duration for the "freebie" greater invis for a round on top of the other effect. Also, I assume there will be more effect words and more meta words in the future and they want some built in limitations for the system. Having said that, is there any more useless thing to point out than the ability to waste *ahem* I mean... use a 2nd level spell slot to prepare an effect of TWO simultaneous cantrips?
I don't mind that sentence much so long as they clarify that the proper format for duration is (instantaneous/non-instantaneous), (round-minute-hour-day/non-round-minute-hour-day). Thus, any spell can have only instantaneous effects, only non-instantaneous effects or both instantaneous and non-instantaneous effects with duration separated by a comma. In other words, these are all valid durations:
1) Instantaneous
2) 1 round/level
3) Instantaneous, 1 round/levelSo any time a non-instantaneous duration is combined with an instantaneous one they simply get the comma separation.
Isn't that functionally the same as simply removing the rules text that is causing the problem? I suppose this goes further and reduces the duration of all non-instantaneous effects to the lowest duration effect. I don't see that as particularly necessary. This system has enough limitations, as is.
IMO, the vast majority of options presented in Ultimate Magic are substantially inferior to Core and APG options. I understand wanting to avoid power creep, but after my first reading there's very little I expect to be used by my gaming group.
Not really. If you remove the whole thing, people won't know whether to use the lowest duration, the highest, or all of them. It would become too vague.
So does the use the lower duration thing mean I can't have a word spell that fireballs an area then raises anything killed as a flaming zombie?
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
So does the use the lower duration thing mean I can't have a word spell that fireballs an area then raises anything killed as a flaming zombie?
Well animate dead has a duration of instantaneous, so I don't see why it would be an issue.
Edit, from a RAW issue I mean, not a balance issue.
No offense Maddigan, but you're incorrect on this one.
This was an issue in 3.x with Psionic Lion's Charge As written the duration was instantaneous, when it should have been one round. The result was a power, RAW, you manifest once and then can charge all the time (with bonuses to damage if you augmented it)
per the CRB
Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might
be long-lasting.(emphasis mine)
Animate dead is another example of an instantaneous. Are you saying they're only animated for a microsecond then collapse?
Other instantaneous spells which have effects that outlast their magic
bless water (bonus for also being transmutation)
clone
create undead
diminish plants (also transmutation)
fabricateJust to name a few.
Those are better examples than the 24 hour casting time Awaken.
Even using those spells as a baseline example you can still easily adjudicate the result. Not a single one of those spells provides permanent effect on a PC or an NPC. I do not think there is a single spell in the game that has an instantaneous duration that permanently enhances a PC with an effect or enhancement save for wish and that duration is "see text".
If some of you can get a DM to fall for your interpretation of the rules, more power to you. I see this as very easy to adjudicate. Which is to go with the shortest duration that is a duration.
Instantaneous has always to me been a placeholder for no duration and in essence means "duration" none, not duration "permanent". In terms of a spell like animate dead, it creates an undead creature and then is done. The rules for the undead creature are separate, but the spell creates them. Much like a fireball does damage and is done. Or fabricate creates an item and is done.
Personally, I won't need the designers to eratta this nor will there be any debate amongst my players as to how to adjudicate Words of Power used in this manner. I find it ludicrous that any would find this situation difficult to adjudicate. I really do.
Now the Lion's Charge example sounds like it was a mistake.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Lion's charge was a mistake, but WotC was... difficult to get any psionic errata from (psicrystals anyone?)
And I understand your interpretation, just saying RAW, instantaneous effects do have lasting effects after the spell 'does its work'
It is a hole that needs to be closed. Though the Fireball-that-animates-people-killed-by-it above sounds cool. I think I'd peg it at a 7th/8th level spell in normal rules though.
Not really a combo, more like a 1-2 punch, but boost selected lengthy paralyze creature to keep a group in place, then burst lengthy winter's wrath to freeze them for 20d6 cold and 1d4 Dex each round for up to 39 rounds (depending on loads of saves, of course). Since I'm playing a Boreal Sorc WoP right now, this is the first high-level thing I've come up with.
Some of these combinations list many dice of damage. I have a question about the following paragraph:
Multiple Effect Words and Damage: If more than one effect word causes the wordspell to deal damage, the total number of dice of damage the wordspell can deal can be no greater than the wordspell’s caster level. The caster can decide which dice belong to which effect word, in any combination, so long as the total number does not exceed his wordcaster level and the number of dice allocated to a specific effect word does not exceed its maximum.
I guess the bold parts means that I need to increase both my caster level and level to increase the maximum number of allowed dice? This probably makes a lot of feat/traits/etc that increases one of those pretty useless for wordcasters.
Also it mentions "total number of dice of damage". Does this mean that RAW spells doing damage each round does damage the first round and then the coming rounds potentially could have used up all their dice? RAI I assume its the dice cap per target for each time you are damaged by the spell.
Some of these combinations list many dice of damage. I have a question about the following paragraph:
Multiple Effect Words and Damage: If more than one effect word causes the wordspell to deal damage, the total number of dice of damage the wordspell can deal can be no greater than the wordspell’s caster level. The caster can decide which dice belong to which effect word, in any combination, so long as the total number does not exceed his wordcaster level and the number of dice allocated to a specific effect word does not exceed its maximum.I guess the bold parts means that I need to increase both my caster level and level to increase the maximum number of allowed dice? This probably makes a lot of feat/traits/etc that increases one of those pretty useless for wordcasters.
Also it mentions "total number of dice of damage". Does this mean that RAW spells doing damage each round does damage the first round and then the coming rounds potentially could have used up all their dice? RAI I assume its the dice cap per target for each time you are damaged by the spell.
Wordspells don't determine caster level, casters do, so the first bolded part is erroneous unless you are referring to a scroll or some such. The second part doesn't prevent CL boosts, since CL boosts boost YOUR caster level.
The rule was put into place to prevent people from having a burst acid wave/fire blast/ice blast/lightning blast word spell that does 40d6 damage.
Some of these combinations list many dice of damage. I have a question about the following paragraph:
Multiple Effect Words and Damage: If more than one effect word causes the wordspell to deal damage, the total number of dice of damage the wordspell can deal can be no greater than the wordspell’s caster level. The caster can decide which dice belong to which effect word, in any combination, so long as the total number does not exceed his wordcaster level and the number of dice allocated to a specific effect word does not exceed its maximum.I guess the bold parts means that I need to increase both my caster level and level to increase the maximum number of allowed dice? This probably makes a lot of feat/traits/etc that increases one of those pretty useless for wordcasters.
Also it mentions "total number of dice of damage". Does this mean that RAW spells doing damage each round does damage the first round and then the coming rounds potentially could have used up all their dice? RAI I assume its the dice cap per target for each time you are damaged by the spell.
Wordspells don't determine caster level, casters do, so the first bolded part is erroneous unless you are referring to a scroll or some such. The second part doesn't prevent CL boosts, since CL boosts boost YOUR caster level.
The rule was put into place to prevent people from having a burst acid wave/fire blast/ice blast/lightning blast word spell that does 40d6 damage.
I'm a bit confused. What I was trying to ask was if:
maximum number of dice = minimumOf(Caster's CL, Caster's Level)
The text says that "# of dice <= wordspell’s caster level" and "# of dice <= wordcaster level".
So does the use the lower duration thing mean I can't have a word spell that fireballs an area then raises anything killed as a flaming zombie?I really like the flavor, but, RAW, I don't think the Undeath (Death) effect word lets you do this. You'd either be targetting dead creatures with a Fire Blast effect, or using the Burst Target word, which isn't legal with Undeath.
School necromancy [evil]; Level cleric 2, sorcerer/wizard 3
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
Target Restrictions selected
This effect word can only target the corpses of dead creatures.
These creatures rise as either skeletons or zombies, as decided
by the caster. These undead follow the caster’s commands to
the best of their limited ability. They remain undead creatures
until destroyed. The caster can create at most 2 Hit Dice worth
of undead per caster level with each casting of a wordspell
with this effect word. The caster can control more than 4 HD
per caster level of undead creatures. If additional undead are
created, the caster chooses which undead to lose control of to
get back under the limit.Boost Selected Fire Blast (6) Undeath (5) would be a pretty cool 8th level wordspell, though. You could throw in Cantrip too, like Light to make them glow and still be in the 8th level slot. I don't think there's an effect word to make them Burn, but you'd be entering 9th level territory then I think.
What's interesting to note here -- Undeath is an instantaneous effect word which produces a permanent effect. And it's not Conjuration [Creation].
RAW, a Boost Selected Undeath Enhance Form is a 7th level wordspell. Creates Skeletons and Zombies with a permanent +4 STR, CON, or DEX.
By RAW would you not have to create the undead first before enhancing them? Do not all effects occur at once? As in that enhance spell would go off and the create undeath at the same time wasting the enhance effect?
And instantaneous enhance would mean the stats would last for a millisecond and then be done. So your skeletons would have a +4 str, dex, and con for an instant.
Animate Dead does not enhance a skeleton. It turns a non-living skeleton into an undead creature and is done. I still don't understand how you all are getting added enhanced effects as long lasting.
Even for the spells listed, they create something and are done. An enhancement bonus or an effect are ongoing magic.
Animating the dead is not a duration. It is an effect that happens and is done. You create a skeleton. That is the effect. It happens and is done. Now you have a living skeleton.
I still do not see how you can say go it enhances your strength and is done. The enhancement bonus stays on after the magic is done.
Can you find a single spell with an instantanous duration that provides an enhancement or inherent bonus?
Even Awaken does not "enhance" intelligence. It's effect is to make a creature with animal intelligence or a living plant into a creture with a human sentience. It provides neither an inherent bonus nor an enhancement bonus.
It's effect has nothing to do with boosting stats. The stat alterations are a byproduct of the effect. The effect is to awaken the creature to a level to a human-like level of awareness. Once the magic works, it is done.
I don't understand the misinterpretation. All the spells list are no different than the instantaneous effect of a fireball or a restoration spell. They just have a different instantaneous effect which happens and is adjudicated differently.
So no reason whatsoever to believe that you will somehow be able to gain fly or enhancement bonuses permanently. It is more likely that you would gain fly or enhancement bonuses for an instant, and then are gone. Do you really want to run the spell in that fashion?
It is quite proveable by taking every instantaneous spell and appllying the "what does the magic do?" test to determine a proper duration for instantaneous spells. All instantaneous spells have an effect, but it is not an ongoing magical effect. For example, you cannot dispel a skeleton. Not even to my knowledge does Mage's Disjunction work to destroy animated undead because once they are animated, they are considered a separate living entity. There is no further magical effect on them. The magic animated them and then was done.
Are you planning to make Mage's Disjunction capable of killing undead now or undoing inherent bonuses? Or do you already allow this?
Wordspell's don't have Caster Levels. Characters have a Caster Level. Scrolls have a caster level. Magic items have a caster level. The phrase "wordspell's caster level" is non-sensical, and needs to be errata'd. That's like asking the question "what is Fireball's caster level?" It doesn't have one.I'm a bit confused. What I was trying to ask was if:
maximum number of dice = minimumOf(Caster's CL, Caster's Level)
The text says that "# of dice <= wordspell’s caster level" and "# of dice <= wordcaster level".
Why doesn't a wordspell have a CL when cast? Is this something special for wordspells? I thought normal spells did have a CL?
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.
Maybe I'm reading this wrong. I read it as casters having a CL that was also used for the spells he casts (unless he chooses to lower it).
No offense Maddigan, but you're incorrect on this one.
This was an issue in 3.x with Psionic Lion's Charge As written the duration was instantaneous, when it should have been one round. The result was a power, RAW, you manifest once and then can charge all the time (with bonuses to damage if you augmented it)
per the CRB
Instantaneous: The spell energy comes and goes the instant the spell is cast, though the consequences might
be long-lasting.(emphasis mine)
Animate dead is another example of an instantaneous. Are you saying they're only animated for a microsecond then collapse?
Other instantaneous spells which have effects that outlast their magic
bless water (bonus for also being transmutation)
clone
create undead
diminish plants (also transmutation)
fabricateJust to name a few.
I've done some more thinking on this. And a just as viable RAW DM interpretation of instantaneous duration can be used to make every single spell you join together with an instantaneous and non-instantaneous duration nearly useless.
A DM can look at what each instantaneous spell effect does and see if it is ongoing:
bless water (bonus for also being transmutation): imbues flask of water with positive energy.
clone: makes inert duplicate of a creature.
create undead: infuses a dead body with negative energy to create more powerful undead.
diminish plants (also transmutation): Causes normal vegetation to shrink to normal size or reduce potential productivity to 1/3 over next half a year.
fabricate: convert material of one sort into product of same material.
None of the spells above have an effect that is ongoing. The effect happens and then is over.
People are confusing the byproduct of a spell with its effect. You must look at the effect of the spell itself, not the byproduct.
For example, the byproduct of animate dead is that you have a group of 2 HD skeletons that obey you. But that is not the spell's effect, that is the spell's byproduct or result.
Because the text in the spell may go on to explain the result or byproduct of the spell, does not mean the magic is ongoing. The magic has already taken effect and is gone. Which is why you can't dispel animated dead or dispel an awakened creature.
Even if you look at some of the healing spells like restoration or ressurection. The effect happens and is gone. The spell text goes on to explain the possible results of the spell, but does not at all indicate the spell has an ongoing effect. You cannot dispelled restored ability damage or ressurected person's life.
And if you take Words such as enhance. The effect is to give a +4 enhancement bonus to Str, Dex, and Con. This is not a byproduct of the spell, it is a direct effect from the magic. If it is instantaneous, then it occurs instantaneously and is done. As in you get the enhancement bonus for an instant and then it is gone. Same with a Word spell whose direct effect is to grant the ability to fly.
As a DM I can just as easily interpret by RAW that this is how the instantaneous duration works. How would any of you folks generously interpreting instantaneous duration feel if your combined fly or energy immunity were interpreted by your DM in this fashion? Would you still be pumped to combine them? Very doubtful. Yet by RAW I can interpret it in this fashion and prove it by using every single instantaneous duration spell listed here.
Not a single one has an ongoing enhancement bonus, effect such as fly or energy immunity, or the like. The results of an instantaneous spell are immediate and ongoing, the effect of an instantaneous spell is not. You do not get to keep animating dead, ressurecting people, blessing water, or doing fireball damage over and over again with one casting.
This very much does mean you cannot continue to be immune to energy, gain +4 enhancement bonuses to stats, or fly continuously with an instantaneous duration spell unless you can somehow prove that the fly is the result or byproduct of the effect of the spell rather than the direct effect. Otherwise the magic happens, you can do the thing for for an instant and then it is done.
|
Not a single one has an ongoing enhancement bonus, effect such as fly or energy immunity, or the like. The results of an instantaneous spell are immediate and ongoing, the effect of an instantaneous spell is not. You do not get to keep animating dead, ressurecting people, blessing water, or doing fireball damage over and over again with one casting.
Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5 inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus, three wishes for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
Granted, Wish has a costly material component, but so has Raise Dead.
|
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
|
Maddigan,
So Bless water imbues the water instantly with positive energy and then the spell is done.
The wordspell imbues the creature with a +x inherent bonus, and then the spell is done.
Same thing. It's the problem with the instantaneous effect. You're the one who's decided that instantaneous can change to mean different things in different situations.
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.Maybe I'm reading this wrong. I read it as casters having a CL that was also used for the spells he casts (unless he chooses to lower it).Just read that sentence again.
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level"
Okay, so a Spell has a Caster level. Then it goes on to state:
"which for most spellcasting character's is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell"
So the Spell's Caster Level is equal to HER Class Level? How did the Spell gain a gender - apparently they're all female? And Spells now have a class? And wait ... HER just referenced the SPELL, and then later in the same sentence it says "she's using to cast the spell." Is HER the spell, and SHE the caster? The sentence is rife with pronoun errors.
The sentence should make just as must sense like this:
"A spell’s power often depends on its spellcaster level, which is equal to her class level in the class she’s using to cast the spell."
Clearly it makes no sense when written that way.
I read it as "her" referencing the "spellcasting character" and "the class she's using" referencing the class of the "spellcasting character" used to cast the spell.
If divided into parts something like:
A spell has a caster level.
The character has levels in a class that allows it to cast spells.
The caster level of a spell cast by this character is (for most characters) equal to the character's level in the class used to cast the spell.
The sentence is pretty much directly copied from 3.5 except they use "her" instead of "your" and "she's" instead of "you're".
Admittedly English is not my primary language and of course I might be wrong. I agree that the sentence could be written much more clearly. I'd never thought about spells having caster levels at all (only characters) before reading the paragraph in the words of power rules which lead me to read the above line in the Core Rulebook.
Come on guys, there's gotta be more cool combos than this!
|
A spell's power often depends on its caster level, which for most spellcasting characters is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell.Maybe I'm reading this wrong. I read it as casters having a CL that was also used for the spells he casts (unless he chooses to lower it).Just read that sentence again.
"A spell's power often depends on its caster level"
Okay, so a Spell has a Caster level. Then it goes on to state:
"which for most spellcasting character's is equal to her class level in the class she's using to cast the spell"
So the Spell's Caster Level is equal to HER Class Level? How did the Spell gain a gender - apparently they're all female? And Spells now have a class? And wait ... HER just referenced the SPELL, and then later in the same sentence it says "she's using to cast the spell." Is HER the spell, and SHE the caster? The sentence is rife with pronoun errors.
The sentence should make just as must sense like this:
"A spell’s power often depends on its spellcaster level, which is equal to her class level in the class she’s using to cast the spell."
Clearly it makes no sense when written that way.
I'm surprised people have an issue with this. In the PG and APG classes use the Him and Her pronouns because they are used to describe the iconic character of each class. For sorcerers you will read "She can cast..." and for monks "He loses..." If you look at the art for the Words of Power chapter in Ultimate Magic you will see the iconic Oracle so it's easy to infer, at least to me, that they are following the same format as the PG and APG.
Irresistable Selected Horror Slay - Witch/Sorc/Wiz 9th slot, 20/level damage to a single target with spell resistance and a single Fort save, which they roll twice on and take the worse result. Mind Warp for Will save replacement. Not great, but a situationally good use of the slot.
Irresistable Barrier Lengthy Torture Terror - Bard 5, everyone else 6 - Invisible wall lasts 2 rounds/level, creatures who cross it are Nauseated and Frightened for 2 rounds/level on a failed save.
(at this point, I would like to point out that the Barrier targeting word needs some errata)
Barrier <insert any damage word> - min level 3, pick your word - Remind me why I want to use the Line target word when I can create a line that is not adjacent to me within close range, scales with my level without boosting, and handles Instantaneous effects just fine? They may as well have called this the ultimate cheating target word.
Selected Perfect Form Lesser Curing - Cleric 5, Druid 5 - Instantaneous +4 Enhancement Bonus to all physical stats. Equivalent to your entire WBL + 18k at minimum caster level. :-)