|
I have sifted through the threads looking for an answer, but it looks like "Grapple" is a problematic subject.
Is there no penalty for Power Attacking into a grapple? No chance of hitting the wrong target within that grapple? If not, that's bogus.
Here is the situation I have run into. I have six 9th level players in my CoT campaign, and they have discovered a tactic which has become more than a little annoying. The Cleric and the Sorcerer buff the party to the max before entering any place new. Then the Monk rushes in and grapples any solo targets (which he rarely ever misses), three of the other players come in and assist the grapple, and then the Fighter comes in and power attacks the crap out of the creature who now has a -4 to its AC and no Dex bonus, and finally the rogue comes in and sneak attacks it. This has now become a recurrent theme.
Now, as I see it, if a creature or NPC is locked in a grapple, that creature or NPC is always struggling to escape, not standing there "ok, you got me, I give up'. With that being said, a fighter who is power attacking is putting everything into a swing to inflict more damage, not performing a precision attack. Something wrong with this picture. Any ideas or am I missing something?
I see a house rule coming real soon.
there is no penalty for attacking I to a grapple. grappled targets are no longer I'n the same square. power attack does not play a role I'n this one way or another.
I have sifted through the threads looking for an answer, but it looks like "Grapple" is a problematic subject.
Is there no penalty for Power Attacking into a grapple? No chance of hitting the wrong target within that grapple? If not, that's bogus.
Here is the situation I have run into. I have six 9th level players in my CoT campaign, and they have discovered a tactic which has become more than a little annoying. The Cleric and the Sorcerer buff the party to the max before entering any place new. Then the Monk rushes in and grapples any solo targets (which he rarely ever misses), three of the other players come in and assist the grapple, and then the Fighter comes in and power attacks the crap out of the creature who now has a -4 to its AC and no Dex bonus, and finally the rogue comes in and sneak attacks it. This has now become a recurrent theme.
Now, as I see it, if a creature or NPC is locked in a grapple, that creature or NPC is always struggling to escape, not standing there "ok, you got me, I give up'. With that being said, a fighter who is power attacking is putting everything into a swing to inflict more damage, not performing a precision attack. Something wrong with this picture. Any ideas or am I missing something?
I see a house rule coming real soon.
don't confuse being grappled with being pinned.
If you grappling your still on your feet and your simply locked in some form with your opponent its not like your rolling around on the floor.
Consider something like the NFL two players on their feet pushing against each other arms locked are grappling.
Two Sumo wrestlers could be described as grappling
in both those instances how easy is it to hit one of them without hitting the other, the answer is quite easy.
If you have two or three grappling that target? I'm going to take my great sword and with a mighty swing, power attack for incredible amounts of damage without the risk of hitting a friendly character? Come on. We're not talking sumo wrestlers here.
Let me put this to you
people in grapple has a lower AC, if you then give a penalty to those attacking that target becuase he's in a grapple you've just raised his AC again canceling out the penalty, so from a pure mechanics standpoint it makes no sensefrom a game standpoint we're also not talking about amateur night at the fight club these are season fighters and in the case of the power attacking fighter a very experienced fighter. He knows exactly when and where to strike in a grapple without hitting his allies because he's had an awful lot of practice at it.
The only possible house rule worth considering is the critical fumble roll of 1 when attacking into a grapple. but that a pretty high risk at 5% I'd prob apply a 2nd roll to confirm the fumble, before you started letting allies take friendly hits.
Just remember combat is an abstraction of whats really happening its not like everyone waits 6 seconds while someone takes a turn the rules are simple designed to simulate combat without making it ridiculously complex by trying to make it too realistic.
I can see where this tactic could become annoying. Make sure you're giving your NPCs the breaks they deserve (Perception to hear spells being cast, No meta-gaming of heres-the-enemy-time-to-buff, etc).
If you have six characters, it wouldn't be unreasonable to increase the threat by adding some mooks to some fights.
Since you know the party's tactics, review each fight to see what the enemy might be able to do counter it.
I generally advise against nerfing a specific tactic, but make sure you aren't handing them the guy on a silver platter either.
|
|
Thank you all for the feedback.
I can see where this tactic could become annoying. Make sure you're giving your NPCs the breaks they deserve (Perception to hear spells being cast, No meta-gaming of heres-the-enemy-time-to-buff, etc).
If you have six characters, it wouldn't be unreasonable to increase the threat by adding some mooks to some fights.
Since you know the party's tactics, review each fight to see what the enemy might be able to do counter it.
I generally advise against nerfing a specific tactic, but make sure you aren't handing them the guy on a silver platter either.
I agree with where you are coming from. It is not my intention to nerf a party tactic, as that would not only be unfair, but also punish the players for being creative. I will look at this as an opportunity to expand on a rule that will allow the players to use their tactic, but to provide consequences should they make a bad roll.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Also remember to focus on other aspects: a 6 player group requires some buffing of the encounters. Not by making the existing creatures stronger, but by increasing the number of creatures. The monk has to succeed on two grapples to get the pinned condition (the -4 AC and flat-footed that you mention).
Depending on the situation, remember that misdirection can help tremendously. For example they might *think* that they grappling the main boss for the room, but actually that was a trick having one of the henchmen pretend to be the boss.
Illusion magic can easily waste grapple attempts, and there are several spells that (if a round of preperation are available) will make grappling a caster hard. And on the other side, trying to grapple a higher BAB higher physical stats enemy is tough even for a specialist monk. Unless the situation is very favorable it should be rare to have better than 50-50 odds on landing the grapple.
You can also reverse the game - there are several nasty monsters you can bring into the room that play the grappling game much better than the PCs can.
Finally remember that the game goes both ways. Have minions that help the grappled BBEG focus on sunder attacks, that usually gets the attention of the characters quickly.
