I am running a campaign with mostly evil PCs. One of the PCs (Urban Druid) wants to be a serial killer. I am inclined to let him. It fits a vague theme of the game and he isn’t the only PC to have a similar antisocial personality.
I plan to force the player to limit the PCs killings to in between games while the party is spending one or multiple nights/day in a town. This way I can run his side things and have the fall out happen next game.
I told him that it won’t be a free for all he will eventually attract attention and people will be hunting for him. The higher his body count the more people and more powerful people he will attract.
With most of the PCs evil I laid down a ground rule that whatever plot or schemes the PCs have their party members are exempt from the bad stuff. If they want to take over the world you plan is to give the party their own island. You can unleash plagues on the land but the other PCs get the vaccine.
So, this is something I want to do. But I could use some help/advice on creating the vignettes where he hunts and kills a victim, a system for tracking his infamy, and creating a method of escalating danger as he becomes more well known.
Uh... Are you sure that you can have an evil druid? I thought that they had to be [Any][Neutral]...
World of Darkness has a book called Slasher that is pretty much all about playing serial killers...
However I personally would never have any interest in THIS kind of game...
I would get my hands on PDFs or real copies of Heroes of Horror and Book of Evil Deeds from the 3.5 system. Draw inspiration and rules from those texts. I know they have some of the stuff you're looking for.
On a personal note, be careful with a game like this. It can be fun when done right, but it's this type of stuff that gives RPGs a bad name if word gets out and it's not being handled correctly. I've also had my opinion of people (IRL) change completely after being in a game like this. You'd be surprised what you learn about people, and a lot of time it's pretty clear it's not really JUST roleplaying.
So, this is something I want to do. But I could use some help/advice on creating the vignettes where he hunts and kills a victim, a system for tracking his infamy, and creating a method of escalating danger as he becomes more well known.
Is anyone else thinking that this is just plain wrong on so many levels?
This is what gives RPGs a bad name.
So, this is something I want to do. But I could use some help/advice on creating the vignettes where he hunts and kills a victim, a system for tracking his infamy, and creating a method of escalating danger as he becomes more well known.
Is anyone else thinking that this is just plain wrong on so many levels?
This is what gives RPGs a bad name.
It can be fine if handled correctly. Think of Manhunt or Grand Theft Auto video games....however, the big problem you run into is that RPGs are more open than video games, and thus can devolve REALLY fast. Games like this can quickly spiral down from "My character is a serial killer" to "ok....here is exactly how I torture the young girl I've kidnapped." It's when you start spiraling like this that you get in trouble (again, I've seen it happen...not only do I not game with that group anymore, but I don't even talk to some of the people in it as it became pretty clear they weren't people I wanted around me).
RPGs have no "real" rules once you sit down to play them at the table, and some people use them as an outlet for their real feelings, desires, and frustrations. When you really start going off the deep-end it can get scary. This is why I think games like this need some REALLY clear ground-rules as to what is the limit of "Evil" that will be dealt with in them. The no PC-on-PC action is a good start.
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Interesting, I find I come down on quite the opposite side, encouraging and enjoying the role play and fantasy inherent in this type of gaming whether it involves bringing freedom and hope to country after country or consorting with the princes of hell to orchestrate the fall of a nation and the ensuing torture and agony of its citizens for all eternity.
The critical thing to remember is that it is fantasy, and that those people that can't make the distinction and use it to channel their inherent evil are not twisted by the game, but are already twisted themselves and such desires will always come to the surface somehow, someway.
It's exciting to play the bad guy, to torture the villain into revealing their plot in the nick of time to avert disaster (or perpetrate the disaster yourself but altered to better benefit yourself) and it is exciting because it isn't real, and you can use the fantasy to experience such things vicariously (heck, this is exactly why the word exists).
The game (role play, video, board, etc) is just a set of tools, and like any other it can be put to good or evil. The wonderful thing about role play is you can put it to great evil, enjoy the thrill, and then go back to being a kind, happy, and helpful individual without a second thought.
The people that cannot, while few, are the ones you need to be very careful of, because the game didn't make them that way, that's just a facet of their anima being exposed.
I am running a campaign with mostly evil PCs. One of the PCs (Urban Druid) wants to be a serial killer. I am inclined to let him. It fits a vague theme of the game and he isn’t the only PC to have a similar antisocial personality.
I plan to force the player to limit the PCs killings to in between games while the party is spending one or multiple nights/day in a town. This way I can run his side things and have the fall out happen next game.
I told him that it won’t be a free for all he will eventually attract attention and people will be hunting for him. The higher his body count the more people and more powerful people he will attract.
With most of the PCs evil I laid down a ground rule that whatever plot or schemes the PCs have their party members are exempt from the bad stuff. If they want to take over the world you plan is to give the party their own island. You can unleash plagues on the land but the other PCs get the vaccine.
So, this is something I want to do. But I could use some help/advice on creating the vignettes where he hunts and kills a victim, a system for tracking his infamy, and creating a method of escalating danger as he becomes more well known.
Well, a good way of looking at escalating danger would be to attract a more and more powerful police and political presence. Start with simple watch, then full time guards, all the way up to an all out manhunt with a hefty bounty. Hes the other end of the adventure hook now. And adventurers should show up to take him out. Stat up a watch captain to be a recurring "antagonist". I recommend levels of paladin or inquisitor.
Good luck.
Watch a bunch of episodes of Law & Order and take notes on how the detectives hunt down the bad guys, and then apply similar logic to how your authorities will capture the evil PC. If eluding the authorities is the draw for doing such despicable things for your PC, let him have a little fun (?), but any sizable city will most likely have the magical and skilled resources necessary to take him/her down. I wouldn't encourage this type of rp, even in an evil campaign (which I don't care for to begin with, so take the above with that in mind). /salute!
The big shift is going to be when the killer becomes important enough to get a scryer to find him.
I love it! my wife plays a succubus who was in the service of Merrshaulk and then "abducted" by the forces of Dispater. In the game she became pretty much the whore of Hell, and caused so much mayhem that she eventually attracted the unwanted attention of Asmodeus. One reoccurring joke was that she would go to Cainia to consult some matters with Mphistopheles, he would give the advice, but charge his services with sex. Ol'flames being of quasi-deity status would "sex her to unconsciousness". She would wake up in the courtyard of Dispater's tower all mauled up with only a handful of hp left and a "little gift" usually a minor magical item with some pesky drawback. LOL
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Yeh, the real issue for this kind of campaign (other than moral of course) is diviniation. A city or kingdom's resources for divination will likely outstrip the PC's ability to avoid detection by mid levels.
...and being on the other side of the law is tough. If I was a DM in this situation I would let the player know that this is incredible difficult to pull of and then really let him have it. After a few levels I would assign a "detective" to the case and then ramp it up every level until champions of good are hunting him down. His evil friends may not feel like sticking up for him when the local paladin order comes knocking...
Yeh, the real issue for this kind of campaign (other than moral of course) is diviniation. A city or kingdom's resources for divination will likely outstrip the PC's ability to avoid detection by mid levels.
...and being on the other side of the law is tough. If I was a DM in this situation I would let the player know that this is incredible difficult to pull of and then really let him have it. After a few levels I would assign a "detective" to the case and then ramp it up every level until champions of good are hunting him down. His evil friends may not feel like sticking up for him when the local paladin order comes knocking...
^This. Getting away with it will be the real adventure.
I have mixed feelings about this sort of thing.
On the one hand, I can't really say anything about there being something "wrong" with playing an evil PC, even a serial killer. As the GM I routinely play characters far more evil and nasty than a mere serial killer.
On the other hand, I have to admit that I find playing with people who build PCs of this sort pretty creepy, and would prefer not to be in one of those campaigns.
But on the gripping hand, as long as the player group can keep the distinction between fantasy and real life clear, then I would say just play it as straight as possible, and when the Law nails him, show no mercy.
One thing I never do in my games is tell the PC's that they can't do something - within reason. However, one thing I make very clear to any evil PC is that actions have unforeseeable consequences.
In this case, I'd let it happen - and make sure his victims are important to the plot. The next time someone wants to buy a magic item, they find that the clerk has been murdered and the store shut down, for example.
As far as tracking notoriety goes, play it by ear. If he makes no mistakes, don't punish him. But definitely have a few bluff checks on the go if he ever becomes a suspect and gets questioned.
And if he gets high profile, maybe the local law will put their best man on the case... As Phyrric Victory pointed out above.
As far as content goes, there's a good article in Dragon #300 called 'How Far Should You Go?' which provides good food for thought on how violent or 'mature' content should be handled with different groups.
So, this is something I want to do. But I could use some help/advice on creating the vignettes where he hunts and kills a victim, a system for tracking his infamy, and creating a method of escalating danger as he becomes more well known.
I would borrow a concept from some story games. Give the player complete narrative control. During the course of these scenes require a couple of rolls, stealth, bluff, attacks, caster level checks, etc. When a failure occurs, it isn't the action that necessarily fails, but rather a twist is introduced. After the player is done with his narration, add a couple facts where he left clues, how the victim is related to someone powerful or how the local population is reacting in a way that antagonizes the character further.
I would also talk to the player about what he wants to see for his character. The biggest question is how he would feel if his character were to be caught. Ask about why he wants to play this character, what kind of challenges he wants him to face. A common thing we use in one of my groups is to ask a leading question, the one I would have for this guys is "Why won't you kill your nemesis?". The player gets to come up with whatever reason he wants, but that gives you as the DM a lot to work with for improving the story.
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I don't feel a problem with the theme in the least. Fantasy is for fantasizing, after all, and who hasn't fantasized about being the bad guy in the police procedural?
Instead of running the vignettes outside of the campaign and then telling the players, you might try having the group play them. That is, Mr.Killer Druid plays himself and the rest of the party play the cops. This saves you on telling them and lets them be active participators instead of merely passive listeners. It also saves you the work of RPing all of the cops. Just set a little time aside at the end of the adventuring day for it, and start with "Last time, on Law and Ogre..."
It'll get fun at higher levels when his pursuers are using speak with dead, raise dead, and divinations to find him. I think it would be an entertaining game.
Playing a psycho is just fantasy, so that's not any sicker than an actor playing one (and we all enjoy movies and shows about that). Of course, a druid would have his own tricks for avoiding capture.
Just don't let him be Dexter! LOL
Seriously have someone play a witch, the new UM options are awesome for an evil campaign.
A few gaps to fill in but basic outline of how this can work.
Pro tip: any sadistic ideas from players should follow the rule of cool, don't do any gore/uncomfortable describing and treat all sadistic ideas as off screen things, torture results in unconsciousness or death with nothing in between. Really just don't let players describes these kind of actions, if they try, time skip to the persons death.
For Gods sakes make sure you take note of any and all tricks the players use to prevent divination's.
Then you have a nice arsenal of things to use against them when they play more goodie goodie types.
For Gods sakes make sure you take note of any and all tricks the players use to prevent divination's.
Then you have a nice arsenal of things to use against them when they play more goodie goodie types.
+1 and Share
My co-DM ran a (mostly) evil campaign and we had a CE wizard who was a serial killer. What he did basically happened "off camera," so our group wasn't even aware of his extracurricular activities. We got hints here and there. For example, one time we had to trek deep into a swamp. He passed out small talismans enchanted to keep biting insects away. The LN cleric was fairly certain hers was made from a section of human rib bone. It was a prominent part of his character, but not one that played center stage.
Eventually, we killed him. C'mon, the guy was CE. It was going to happen at some point.
With the right group, and if you know everyone's boundaries this can work pretty well, but you need to make sure you're not going to put off one of the other players by taking it too far.
I actually did this a few years ago. My group was playing WoD Vampire and when my previous character got retired, the GM and I decided that the game was a little too pg-13 for a game about monsters. The GM and I roleplayed a couple "events" (something we decided afterwards was interesting, but best not repeated) and he used that as a template for murders that the party ran across, with me telling him by note or out of session if I had any specific ideas.
The party was mostly good (as vampires go) and they were all my character's friends, so I avoided backstabbing, aside from trying to throw off the investigation. I didn't last long after they found out, but the chase scene while I was trying to get away was great, and the character was never meant to last.
The whole thing was never intended as a way of exploring being a killer, it was all about making the game's feel a little darker and more unsettling. It worked perfectly, and was one of the best ongoing subplots we've had.
How to DM for a serial killer
Carefully.
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Depending on who his victims are and if he disposes of them, the authorities may never even care/notice that they have a serial killer on their hands. If the bodies are never found, speak with dead and such can't be used; if no one reports someone missing, then as far as the authorities know, no crime has been committed. And even if someone is reported missing, it could be blamed on a boogey man type figure, this is a fantasy setting after all, there are plenty of things that could cause people to disappear.
Just some things to keep in mind
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Yeh, the real issue for this kind of campaign (other than moral of course) is diviniation. A city or kingdom's resources for divination will likely outstrip the PC's ability to avoid detection by mid levels.
...and being on the other side of the law is tough. If I was a DM in this situation I would let the player know that this is incredible difficult to pull of and then really let him have it. After a few levels I would assign a "detective" to the case and then ramp it up every level until champions of good are hunting him down. His evil friends may not feel like sticking up for him when the local paladin order comes knocking...
This. And it's not just the law that'll be after their hides. If the evil PCs manage to get the "bad" side of other evil groups out there, well, the enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that jazz.
Essentially, you're running a reverse murder mystery campaign for that PC as a B-level side plot. I've run two traditional murder mysteries in the past, so maybe my experiences there can help you. Basically, you and your player are collaborating on creating murder mysteries for the police to come ever closer to solving. I'd also recommend asking on enworld, as they're great with stuff like this. I got a lot of this advice from there.
First off, I found this site very helpful for general principles on how to run a murder mystery: http://www.web-den.org.uk/falconer/games/whodunit.php
Some additional notes:
1) Twist the Plot. If it's twisty, then a few dropped clues by the PC doesn't necessarily lead to his capture. Twistiness allows NPC investigators to make real progress, but still take a while to solve everything.
2) Everyone's got secrets. When the investigators find out the murder victim wasn't an angel, it noirifies the scene.
3) Variety of good guys. The PCs got in a couple great fights against the low-level creeps, but also had a lot of fun facing off in some purely diplomatic scenes.
4) Bad guys are active. When the murderer finds out the NPCs are on their tail, give the druid a chance set up a couple of ambushes.
Players want to search everything. Make sure you roll up full gear/possesion lists for the bodies, and make up their living quarters (criminals and investigators like to look at where people live). Their living quarters should have clothes, food, hobby stuff, and at minimum evidence of their profession (something showing recent work they've done, mud, documents).
Some tropes to use for possible independent investigators:
Agatha Christie: whoever gets the least screen time in the middle/end game is the guilty party. The police are allies who understand their limits.
Arthur Conan Doyle: Make something truly bizarre about the situation, along the lines of the Red-Headed League or The Speckled Band or The Copper Beeches or whatever. The police are nitwits.
Nero Wolfe: Assumes the police are wrong, because if they were right, their enormous resources means they will win.
Philip Marlowe: When things slow down, 2 guys enter the room with murder on their minds. The police may be corrupt or lazy.
Most NPCs do not know what has happened; if they do, they're accessories after the fact. They are scared and unhappy and deeply worried. They may well resent the police. If the investigators or the serial killer are polite and charming, they have no reason not to want to help out. Some people will dislike them, of course, on general principles; some will think
privacy is everything. These people are a pain in the ass. But lots of people will help just because they are basically honest people.
Most NPCs are basically not so bright about things like murder (or whatever). They don't know anything about a murder investigation, they don't know anything about crime, and they don't care. They have their own lives to lead. If they try to deceive the PCs, it will be
about stupid things: "No, I wasn't there with my girlfriend, we're not that kind of friends, I was, um, ah, playing pool. Yeah, playing p-pool. And nobody saw me. Okay? Hah. So there."
Some steps:
Step One: The Straight Story
Who? What? When? Where? Why? How?
A few essential questions should take you further on.
Why now? If Dave has had these compulsions for a while, why did he decide to strike now?
Why this way? If Dave used rat-poison, why did he choose it?
Why there? If Dave did it in Phil's home, why there? Why not at his office?
Step Two: Messiness
Something went wrong. There are no perfect crimes, and clues were left.
What were they? Why were they left? Who saw or heard? What did the killer forget? How did he deal with it?
When something goes wrong, is there a coincidence that allows the killer to get away with it? Until the players know the game, avoid this trick.
Step Three: Bystanders
A man dead of a gunshot wound in a secluded apartment where nobody knew he lived, with no friends or acquaintances, and only footprints leading away, leaves nothing to work on. Eventually, there will be a murder where that's not the case. When it isn't, here's some things to think about with the bystanders.
Who are the friends? Who are the servants? Who are the lovers and family? What's the story about the victim? How do these people feel about the death? Who gains? Who loses? What's in the will? Who knows that? You don't need to know all of this, but you need the gist.
Step Four: The Result
This whole story is now in motion. What was the timetable of events? Who was where? What are the basic clues left? Don't get cute; just keep it straightforward. What, at base, will the police find out within a few hours?
For every NPC who isn't involved, have them have a reasonably normal schedule that they generally stick to. One or two NPCs who couldn't follow their routine because of some personal complication is fine, but a lot is annoying. Consider one NPC who couldn't follow her routine because she got a message telling her her mother was dying, but when she got there her mother was just fine; it was placed by the killer to get this NPC out of the way.
Step Five: The Difficulty
Why can't the police solve it? What makes the whole thing seem much more complicated than it really is?
Step Six: The heroes
Who calls them in, and why?
The point of this whole exercise is to generate an actual Case that seems very complicated but is actually extremely simple. Once you have very clearly in your head who did what when, and what is immediately apparent on initial investigation of the crime scene, you're set to go.
Why did the killer kill the person on whom suspicion has fallen? It's much more common for the second death to be someone who knows something but hasn't told anyone yet--whether because they were thinking of blackmailing the killer or because they haven't yet realized what it means.
The hero investigators must come up with a plan to expose the killer and bring him to justice. This will depend a lot on their style and the type of mystery. Do they confront him head-on? Do they try to bait a trap? Do they convene all the suspects and grill them by presenting the
whole Case as a hypothetical?
Spells:
What will the corpse say when Speak with Dead is used?
They summon up the soul of a murder victim... and the soul says in a whispy ghost-voice....
"Murderer? My murderer? How am I to know his face, when all I felt was a blade in my back?"
"I saw nothing... nothing... only the sound of bells and the scent of lavender herolded my end..."
In a world where "Speak with Dead" is publically known of, then the murderer will takes steps so it can not be used: Casting it on the corpses himself, Hiding the body, Dismembering the body- or just the mouth
Where things get tricky is divination. Once your serial killer PC kills the wrong important person, then the investigators get extraplanar clues that start leading directly to him. Bring this out when you want to move the entire party and this will give the serial killer PC a reason to move.
On a personal note, be careful with a game like this. It can be fun when done right, but it's this type of stuff that gives RPGs a bad name if word gets out and it's not being handled correctly. I've also had my opinion of people (IRL) change completely after being in a game like this. You'd be surprised what you learn about people, and a lot of time it's pretty clear it's not really JUST roleplaying.
+1. You may find you just don't want to go back to the table after some sessions, and my advice is that if you feel that way, don't.
It's exciting to play the bad guy, to torture the villain into revealing their plot in the nick of time to avert disaster (or perpetrate the disaster yourself but altered to better benefit yourself) and it is exciting because it isn't real, and you can use the fantasy to experience such things vicariously (heck, this is exactly why the word exists).
No, that is not playing the bad guy, that's playing the ruthless cynical 'evil' person who is on the good-guys side. Playing the bad guy is about being the villain who likes to torture, hatches infernal plots to bring about disaster and so on.
Personally, I just don't run games like this any more. When I did, many years ago, I generally discovered that the players that liked those games were basically not the kind of people I wanted to associate with.
Personally, I just don't run games like this any more. When I did, many years ago, I generally discovered that the players that liked those games were basically not the kind of people I wanted to associate with.
+1 to this. As I said above, the players who enjoy this sort of thing have always creeped me out.
Usually serial killers are the villain in various horror media, but shows like Dexter and to a much lesser degree House, use the sociopath as way of building to a catharsis. Things have got be pretty terrible/out-of-balance for an anti-hero's morally reprehensible tactics to "make it right". This means that some extent the victims need to have it coming. That's not to say that they don't have families or good reasons to live, but the victims actions have to be bad enough in the context of the story for the anti-hero to "be destined" to punish them.
But what also separates a villain/anti hero from a hero is not just who they kill, but why they kill. Both villains and anti-heroes do it for the same reasons, selfish need. Even when they are killing for other people, its generally to get the self satisfaction of being "the one with power/in control".
Conversely you can play an antihero type who has to kill out of need, or as a curse, such as vampirism or lycanthropy. Usually though, these types are not in control of their "evil side", and the story is about conquering that aspect of themselves. Your druid sounds like he's in the first camp, not the second.
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I ran an evil game a while back where one of the players was an Urgathoan priest who cooked what the party killed (and subsequently fed it to the mostly* unknowing party). His character wasn't a serial killer, per se, but a frequent killer. His victims provided themselves (prostitute in the bad part of town, groundskeeper at their manor, etc.), and it was easy to bring down the guard on his group when he got a bit megalomaniac with it.
Posters above have mentioned a key point though, don't let the murders be asides that don't impact the central plot. If they're going around killing a certain demographic, the cityscape will evolve. Perhaps prostitution takes a nosedive, and the killer's penchant for prostitutes leaves him with only one viable target: the temple to Callistria. Perhaps too many wealthy families are losing heirs and they pool their resources to hire Glass-eye Willy, the most powerful Diviner this side of the mountains. The kingdom may even invest heavily in magical gear for its guards in order to better see during night and increases patrols in hopes of catching the criminal.
Just as if the heroes save the Magic Mart from a fire and get a discount from thereout, consequences should be creatively and equally applied to malevolent actions.
*The cannibal halfling knew what was in the stew and loved it.
Loads of good tips already. From my experience with evil games it's dead important to not only outside but also inside the game create character bonds - most thieves etc. still have friends, and while this might be less true for serial killers for example having some (important!) use for the other characters will often motivate better realtions so the "I could just kill the rest of the team since they don't agree to my idea" issue does not come up.
As for infamy, I don't think a system like this has been mentioned, but it's something I once discussed with a friend for a crime-oriented game.
Basically make sure to record which people are killed and assign each evil act (murder in this case) an "infamy value" - often 1-3 beggars dying doesn't even attract any attention from the law enforcers in my games - medieval realism. If the player wants to go "random" serial killing, lets his "random" targets slowly get him more and more infamy. Consider that only very similar murders are likely to be linked quickly in a fantasy setting (no DNA tests etc to prove that it is the same killer)
Consider letting his infamy decay over extended period of inaction. Waiting a year or two should make most law enforcers forget to connect two separate, different and differently "motivated" murders.
Also, remember that the further away you get the less known the murder will be, and the infamy therefore virtually unexistant if far distances are travelled between the kills.
Should the player (maybe more probably) wish to target specific people or even act as a hired killer, it might provide for more exiting - and trackable (therefore dangerous) - situations.
Try to give him some interesting people to wish to kill - this might make it easier for you to plan too. If you can anticipate his target, you can give this target certain defensive measures and concerned relatives.
Basically, the best tip on GMing for evil characters (that actively act evil) is to make good bonds in the party, keep it at a level everybody can enjoy, keep solo-acts out of the shared time and use the rule of consequence - even one teensy evil act without consequence is somewhat improbable and will encourages they players to get stupid.
Also, remember, it's just as common for evil to work against a different evil, than against good. And be aware that druid shapeshifting can get VERY nasty on a serial killer - a fly can get in anyware and feats will let you casts spell in shapeshifted form - which could be stuff like the poison spell, the contaminate spell or even damage spells from no obvious source. I had a players shock be fairly badly with some inventive shapeshifting.
One other thing, as much as you need to prep the tools of the Law. So too do you need to prepare for the tools of the Killer. Be prepared with descriptions of possible Bolt-Holes, Criminal Contacts and suppliers, Anti detection resources, and possible corrupt officials. Not to mention targets.
Edit: Might want to think of public response. once "Jack the Ripper" is the news of the day, everyone and their brother will be stepping up protection. Maybe there is a false confession, maybe the noble quarters just got a triple guard. As the body count rises, bring on the chaos.