Who is River Song?


Television

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jemstone wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The 8th Dwarf wrote:

Planet of the Spiders - is that the one with Harry, Sarah Jane and the Doctor regenerates at the end?

I loved Pertwee and his Venusian JuJitsu... My brother in-law has a full sized poster of the naughty picture of Katy Manning (Jo Grant) and a Dalek.

Yes, that's the one where Pertwee regenerates into Baker, with a bit of help from another renegade Time Lord.

The Third Doctor's martial specialty was known as Venusian Savate. Savate is a word for a French martial art.

Venusian Aikido actually. ;)

Venusian Karate in the book, if I recall correctly from almost 30 years ago...

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brock wrote:
jemstone wrote:
LazarX wrote:
The 8th Dwarf wrote:
I loved Pertwee and his Venusian JuJitsu...
The Third Doctor's martial specialty was known as Venusian Savate...
Venusian Aikido actually. ;)
Venusian Karate in the book...

Venusian Drunken Boxing after Moffet reboots the universe one too many times. :P

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brock wrote:
Venusian Karate in the book, if I recall correctly from almost 30 years ago...

Thank you! I was remembering the same thing.


Matthew Morris wrote:
brock wrote:
Venusian Karate in the book, if I recall correctly from almost 30 years ago...
Thank you! I was remembering the same thing.

Which book? There were so many. ;)

While it's conceivable that an author mis-typed, or renamed the martial art, or mixed up Venusian Aikido with Martian Karate, Pertwee-on-screen only ever refers to the Venusian form as "Venusian Aikido." I've recently finished rewatching all of the Pertwee episodes (I've got 'em all... ON TAPE!) so I can safely say this.

Which of course begs the question of why no Doctor since then has ever used it...

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jemstone wrote:
Which of course begs the question of why no Doctor since then has ever used it...

Watch "Robot" the first Tom Baker episode. At the beginning he splits a brick with a knife chop, then at the end he injures himself doing the same thing.

I always took that as when he regenerates he loses the muscle memory that he built up. 4-11 might know how to use it (Though going from 5 to 6 to 7 might have even screwed that up) but their bodies don't.

Aside: I never understood that until I saw the Pertwee episodes. Tom Baker IS Who for me. :-)


So only the third Doctor himself learned those techniques? That seems unlikely.

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Cartigan wrote:
So only the third Doctor himself learned those techniques? That seems unlikely.

Oh, he could retrain himself, sure. My mind still remembers how to do a spinning cressent kick from when I took Tae Kwon Do 25 (gods I'm old) years ago. If I tried to throw one though the results would be more comical than awe inspiring. And that's an older fatter me, not a completely different body me.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
So only the third Doctor himself learned those techniques? That seems unlikely.
Oh, he could retrain himself, sure. My mind still remembers how to do a spinning cressent kick from when I took Tae Kwon Do 25 (gods I'm old) years ago. If I tried to throw one though the results would be more comical than awe inspiring. And that's an older fatter me, not a completely different body me.

That's not what I meant. I meant the Doctor learned them during his Third incarnation, and not an earlier one.

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Cartigan wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
So only the third Doctor himself learned those techniques? That seems unlikely.
Oh, he could retrain himself, sure. My mind still remembers how to do a spinning cressent kick from when I took Tae Kwon Do 25 (gods I'm old) years ago. If I tried to throw one though the results would be more comical than awe inspiring. And that's an older fatter me, not a completely different body me.
That's not what I meant. I meant the Doctor learned them during his Third incarnation, and not an earlier one.

Oh, I misunderstood. :-(

I assumed he learned them off panel (Or re-learned if One was too old and Two was too short).


Cartigan wrote:
Crimson Jester wrote:
He had been stuck on earth before. Had a pretty fancy car at that time too.
Then how does he know about stuff that happened off-world? He and River compare notebooks and talk about things that haven't yet happened.

Don't forget that the doctor knows where the final version of River/Melody's notebook is. And thus so does the Flesh version of the Doctor. It has yet to be shown that the doctor keeps his own journal.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Matthew Morris wrote:
jemstone wrote:
Which of course begs the question of why no Doctor since then has ever used it...

Watch "Robot" the first Tom Baker episode. At the beginning he splits a brick with a knife chop, then at the end he injures himself doing the same thing.

I always took that as when he regenerates he loses the muscle memory that he built up. 4-11 might know how to use it (Though going from 5 to 6 to 7 might have even screwed that up) but their bodies don't.

Aside: I never understood that until I saw the Pertwee episodes. Tom Baker IS Who for me. :-)

Memory and recall can be tricky things. An important thing to remember is that the Doctor's ability to regenerate is in most ways inferior to that of the average Timelord, particurlarly in his relative inability to maintain a consistent personality. While the Third Doctor's knowledge may be buried in his mind, certain parts of it may be as good as gone as far as useful retreival of it, particurlarly if the current personality isn't as action combat oriented.


Well so River Song is Melody Pond... who was in the space suit, and working for the silence, the ugly face people who people forget...

Can't wait for the christmass special.

The Exchange

Matthew Morris wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:
Cartigan wrote:
So only the third Doctor himself learned those techniques? That seems unlikely.
Oh, he could retrain himself, sure. My mind still remembers how to do a spinning cressent kick from when I took Tae Kwon Do 25 (gods I'm old) years ago. If I tried to throw one though the results would be more comical than awe inspiring. And that's an older fatter me, not a completely different body me.
That's not what I meant. I meant the Doctor learned them during his Third incarnation, and not an earlier one.

Oh, I misunderstood. :-(

I assumed he learned them off panel (Or re-learned if One was too old and Two was too short).

If you remember, during the 9th, 10th and 11th Doctor, you find out he forgot a great many things and had to relearn some of them. Dancing being one of them, although this was an obvious euphemism, as well as playing soccer.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
LazarX wrote:
Memory and recall can be tricky things. An important thing to remember is that the Doctor's ability to regenerate is in most ways inferior to that of the average Timelord, particurlarly in his relative inability to maintain a consistent personality.

The personality change is a part of the regeneration. The doctor mentions it more than once in the series.

As for other Time Lords not changing personalities, that is not the case. Romana changes from very serious all the time in her first incarnation to someone who was "perky" but could be serious when needed in her second.
Then there is Barusa. When first met, he is somewhat jovial, but his last incarnation is a dour megalomaniac.

Quote:
While the Third Doctor's knowledge may be buried in his mind, certain parts of it may be as good as gone as far as useful retreival of it, particurlarly if the current personality isn't as action combat oriented.

Memory is a tricky thing. Sometimes what you know comes real quick, other times it takes some thought. Also, the regeneration may play some part in how quickly a Time Lord remembers.

For instant, the 8th Doctor meets a college student working security for an atomic clock institute, recognizes him immediately, and tells him to write a term paper on subject B instead of A because he will get it wrong; however the 9th Doctor has to have people list facts about the Slaveen in order to figure out who they are even though he saw them in the flesh. (Or it could just be his interest in the human race and knowledge of people who have gone on to do great things that he remembers best.)

I had a thought while I wrote this; I wonder how a Time Lord learns what he or she knows? Do they read books and watch videos about other races, or is the knowledge put into their heads via some sort of teaching machine (like what was in a Star Trek episode). If it is some sort of teaching machine, the knowledge would be there but needs to be sifted through in order to find, or there could be a trigger that retrieves it.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

The Master on the other hand, has perfect control over his regeneration as well as a stable personality (when not affected by other factors such as the injuries and decay suffered by the 13th Master. Melody Pond had it to the point, where she was actually working out the physical details of her next incarnation while she was regenerating. She had also remodeled her previous regeneration from a pale skinned pre-adolescent to a darks skinned child as part of facilitating her adoption into Amelia's family.

Borusa one can put down to the general fact that Time Lords for the most part are self-serving Jerkasses. Romana I would put down as a nother case of deliberate self-modeling down to the point where she tries several body models before settling on Lalla Ward.

But I think it does round out the Doctor's character that he is relatively unstable for a Time Lord even if he's at his core a fairly good chap, all of him.

It's also nice to know that there are other Time Lords the Doctor thought well of. Pity they're all dead, a good deal of them by House.

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